New CBB rules

[IPSYCHOSIS]

Duval was a better point guard than what we saw. I'm just surprised we are just now hearing anything out of him or his "camp." We missed seeing him dazzle all year.
These kids must go pro. The next batch is being "promised" their time. It's why they come. Let's not kid ourselves. Thornton/Jackson, Jackson/Duval, Duval/Jones. K is protecting himself too.
No good answers to the one and done. We just hope the talent becomes a team.

Lol hey I disagree with you on something!!.. I think? Lol ... Define “promised their time” The way I define it is ...Hey your our guy, here’s your scholarship, you can come in and be our big man , this is how we’re going to use you, your going to be a big part of us winning it all, we need you, your going to to big things for us, blah blah etc. My point is i don’t see K recruiting a player and (promising) ...Your going to start, take this guys spot, your going to get so and so minutes, etc. Things like that. They should already have a pretty good idea before they commit about all these things anyway.

 

[nets on nets on nets]

I'll always love and support every single Duke player, regardless how his time here went down. I'm as much of a "pro-athlete, anti-establishment" of a person as you will find. I am one that believes all Division-1 college athletes should be paid.

With that said...what Trevon said on twitter was completely uncalled for. I REALLY wish he didn't say that. Duke did nothing but support Trevon during his very rocky season. Coaches and players never threw him under the bus, even though he clearly struggled most of the season and never came close to living up to the ranking of the "#1 incoming PG in the country."

Again, I hope Trevon kills it in the NBA. But, let's be blunt, he had a disappointing season, didn't get drafted, and to say "I was never coming back anyway" just rubs me the wrong way. Be a man, come back and lead Duke to a national title, man. Duke did nothing but give you the biggest and brightest stage to showcase your talents.

 

[QC Dukie]

We’ve had a not happy PG problem lately, or without one. 2 for likely the same reasons. P&R.(which they couldn’t execute consistently, or shoot evidently) shhhhh Dachamp..... Jones comes to the rescue!!...Jones was the last happy as well! (and good) Lol

Ahh the ole pick n roll comes up again. If only we could’ve run the pick n roll, we would’ve won the title last year.

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

Ahh the ole pick n roll comes up again. If only we could’ve run the pick n roll, we would’ve won the title last year.

Shhhhhhh!!!! Don’t awake him man! Lmao

 

[QC Dukie]

Shhhhhhh!!!! Don’t awake him man! Lmao

Haha

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

I'll always love and support every single Duke player, regardless how his time here went down. I'm as much of a "pro-athlete, anti-establishment" of a person as you will find. I am one that believes all Division-1 college athletes should be paid.

With that said...what Trevon said on twitter was completely uncalled for. I REALLY wish he didn't say that. Duke did nothing but support Trevon during his very rocky season. Coaches and players never threw him under the bus, even though he clearly struggled most of the season and never came close to living up to the ranking of the "#1 incoming PG in the country."

Again, I hope Trevon kills it in the NBA. But, let's be blunt, he had a disappointing season, didn't get drafted, and to say "I was never coming back anyway" just rubs me the wrong way. Be a man, come back and lead Duke to a national title, man. Duke did nothing but give you the biggest and brightest stage to showcase your talents.

I agree with everything you said....buttttttt paying college players.

 

[jamsession3]

So you honestly think Marvin coming here had no promises attached to it? Marvin was going to come to Duke and play behind Javin and Bolden?

 

[Devilinside]

Well, I just see an irreconcilable conflict here. The duty of the agent is to put the kid in position to make as much money as possible. The coach, on the other hand, wants to place a kid where he can do the most good for the team, not necessarily for himself. That place may be on the bench. The goals of coaches and agents do not necessarily coincide. And what happens if the agent thinks he knows more than the coach and that the kid would get better preparation at another school and advises him to transfer? I do not trust most agents and would not want them involved at all in the process. I am not in favor of a kid being able to come back if not drafted because it will give a whole lot more kids the incentive to try the draft, distracting them from their obligations to the team. But, hey, I am just an old guy who doesn't like change unless there is a dire need for it, which I do not see here.

OFC

 

[dukephysics]

So you honestly think Marvin coming here had no promises attached to it? Marvin was going to come to Duke and play behind Javin and Bolden?

One could spin it around and ask - Marvin thought for one second that Javin and Bolden would cut into his minutes at Duke? Marvin didn't need any promises from any coach about playing time (or at least he shouldn't have, and with the exception being Roy Williams).

 

[Mac9192]

Lol hey I disagree with you on something!!.. I think? Lol ... Define “promised their time” The way I define it is ...Hey your our guy, here’s your scholarship, you can come in and be our big man , this is how we’re going to use you, your going to be a big part of us winning it all, we need you, your going to to big things for us, blah blah etc. My point is i don’t see K recruiting a player and (promising) ...Your going to start, take this guys spot, your going to get so and so minutes, etc. Things like that. They should already have a pretty good idea before they commit about all these things anyway.

These kids come in, for the most part, are good enough to start. The issue I have is K is much more gentle with a one and done than with a kid he knows will be there multiple seasons.
I realize times are different, and as much as people may not like hearing this, I remember half time last season of a Kentucky game Cal was asked about who he had playing and why. His comment was "I'm playing the 5 that give me the most effort and want to be out there."
I realize he's 71, but sometimes these kids need their cage rattled. Years ago, in the 91-92 season, Duke was getting run off the court by Clemson. K was livid. He removed the starting 5, put their a**e* on the pine. The reserves played hard, cut into the margin a little. He then asked the 5 a few minutes later if they wanted to play. They did, and Duke won.

 

[dukephysics]

These kids come in, for the most part, are good enough to start. The issue I have is K is much more gentle with a one and done than with a kid he knows will be there multiple seasons.
I realize times are different, and as much as people may not like hearing this, I remember half time last season of a Kentucky game Cal was asked about who he had playing and why. His comment was "I'm playing the 5 that give me the most effort and want to be out there."
I realize he's 71, but sometimes these kids need their cage rattled. Years ago, in the 91-92 season, Duke was getting run off the court by Clemson. K was livid. He removed the starting 5, put their a**e* on the pine. The reserves played hard, cut into the margin a little. He then asked the 5 a few minutes later if they wanted to play. They did, and Duke won.

This may be true of some players we've had. But he was not gentle with Frank Jackson and Trevon Duval. Those guys did not get starters minutes their whole time, regardless of effort/execution. Duval spent a great deal of time on the bench this last season. Bolden is another example.
But to your point, there are certainly stretches where some players seem to get away with less than full effort.

 

[bullcity gamer]

I don’t believe Bagley was scared to earn playing time against the likes of Bolden and DeLaurier. He more than likely outshined them in practice (go back and look up the numbers Bagley put up at Duke in his one year). Also, Allen had plenty of competition all 4 years he was at Duke, I gave you a list of the guys he was competing with for playing time. He even came off the bench towards the end of his Junior Year and he didn’t transfer. Amazing you seem to think Coach K makes promises to these kids without any factual evidence to back up this notion jamsession.

 

[nets on nets on nets]

This may be true of some players we've had. But he was not gentle with Frank Jackson and Trevon Duval. Those guys did not get starters minutes their whole time, regardless of effort/execution. Duval spent a great deal of time on the bench this last season. Bolden is another example.
But to your point, there are certainly stretches where some players seem to get away with less than full effort.

Jabari got benched too, for what seemed like poor defensive effort. And he was head-and-shoulders the best player on that Duke team.

 

[bullcity gamer]

Mike G and Chase go on to be starters at their next schools. I don't know about Tucker. Thornton's people were just silly!!!!

Also, Jeter started a few games for Duke during the two seasons he was there and we all saw how that worked out. He was given opportunities to earn more playing time and he did not perform well. Glad Gbinije shined at Syracuse, but let’s not act like the competition to earn playing time at Syracuse is identical to Duke

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

I don’t really have an issue with a better player having necessarily more leeway. I agree, I see that some though, but I understand why. I see why he wasn’t (gentle) on Duval. For example if say Bagley doesn’t get back and show hustle on Defense for a play I’m not yanking him. If say Duval did that I’d yank him. Lol maybe that’s not the necessarily (right) thing to do I guess fair wise, but hey he’s better, your not, you committed to Duke. Man up, get better, or hustle. Lol

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

Jabari got benched too, for what seemed like poor defensive effort. And he was head-and-shoulders the best player on that Duke team.

Exactly, I see it both ways. You might catch someone getting a little more Leeway every now and then, but it’s probally deserved. For the most part I see a stubborn, fair K. Lol

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

So you honestly think Marvin coming here had no promises attached to it? Marvin was going to come to Duke and play behind Javin and Bolden?

Marvin needed (promises) to play in front of them? The number 1 ranked player! Lol yes (I) believe no (promises) were made. He knew how good he was.

 

[Mac9192]

Marvin needed promises to play in front of them? The number 1 ranked player! Lol yes (I) believe no (promises) were made.

Ipsy, remember what K said after the 17 SC loss? Saying he needed to develop the bench? That notion got flushed down the toilet once Bagley was given a retired jersey and the DR trip cancelled.
No Bagley equals more bench play and development. Do we get as far? We don't know. Bagley was a special offensive talent, and definitely better offensively than Delaurier, Bolden and White. But, K tried to make Duke a different team than what he has ever coached. And Duval suffered too, imo.

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

Ipsy, remember what K said after the 17 SC loss? Saying he needed to develop the bench? That notion got flushed down the toilet once Bagley was given a retired jersey and the DR trip cancelled.
No Bagley equals more bench play and development. Do we get as far? We don't know. Bagley was a special offensive talent, and definitely better offensively than Delaurier, Bolden and White. But, K tried to make Duke a different team than what he has ever coached. And Duval suffered too, imo.

.....I don’t like you a n y m o r e...lmao kidding. I just think this topic is going in a different direction now, I don’t know exactly where it’s heading, and I’m going to the bench! But to answer your question, no I don’t remember that, but I’ll take your word for it. I’m not exactly sure of your point . (Promises)

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

Elaborate more please

 

[Mac9192]

Elaborate more please

I believe he treats some of the one and done's a little better than they deserve. It's a difficult task, but he chose this route, and sometimes they need some time on the bench.

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

I believe he treats some of the one and done's a little better than they deserve. It's a difficult task, but he chose this route, and sometimes they need some time on the bench.

I meant how all of this is revelant to the (promises) discussion lol. Never mind though. Got off track: I agree sometimes they may need a kick in the butt though.

 

[sheyduke]

I guess your saying if you get invited to the combine if you declare, that that gives you the chance to come back to school if not drafted? The players that don’t get invited that declare don’t have the option of coming back to school??? Lol I’m confused

No they don’t. Players not invited to the combine must remove their name ten days prior to the combine to be eligible to return to school.

It’s mainly for the early entries that declare even though they aren’t on any draft board and hope to make a team but still go Undrafted. Yes the players “invited” to the combine who go undrafted can return to school as well

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

So what’s the need for an agent then lol

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

If you don’t get a combine imvite, you don’t declare for the draft ....simple lol

 

[jamsession3]

I don’t believe Bagley was scared to earn playing time against the likes of Bolden and DeLaurier. He more than likely outshined them in practice (go back and look up the numbers Bagley put up at Duke in his one year). Also, Allen had plenty of competition all 4 years he was at Duke, I gave you a list of the guys he was competing with for playing time. He even came off the bench towards the end of his Junior Year and he didn’t transfer. Amazing you seem to think Coach K makes promises to these kids without any factual evidence to back up this notion jamsession.

You can be as idealistic as you may want to be, but REALITY is Coach K, Roy, Chris Mul, Sean Miller, Archie Miller, Jimmy Bo, Pat Ewing, Billy Self, Shaka, etc... would tell Marvin when he walks in the gym, "Son, what position you want to play and what number would you like to wear this season". There is never a discussion about 'starting or playing time' because Marvin and his camp expect nothing less.

As far as Grayson is concern, he was being an A-Hole. If he was not, he is starting every game too!

 

[jamsession3]

Also, Jeter started a few games for Duke during the two seasons he was there and we all saw how that worked out. He was given opportunities to earn more playing time and he did not perform well. Glad Gbinije shined at Syracuse, but let’s not act like the competition to earn playing time at Syracuse is identical to Duke

I agree with the Mike G explanation. Syracuse gave Mike G plenty of room and rope to do what he wanted.

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

You can be as idealistic as you may want to be, but REALITY is Coach K, Roy, Chris Mul, Sean Miller, Archie Miller, Jimmy Bo, Pat Ewing, Billy Self, Shaka, etc... would tell Marvin when he walks in the gym, "Son, what position you want to play and what number would you like to wear this season". There is never a discussion about 'starting or playing time' because Marvin and his camp expect nothing less.

As far as Grayson is concern, he was being an A-Hole. If he was not, he is starting every game too!

If you think for a moment a 4 or 5 star recruit is not promised a starting or 6th man position coming into a school you're blind.

It's just part of the game and unfortunately, no, a 4 or 5 start recruit does not want to earn the spot. It should already be their for them!

Kylia? Lmao

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

Come on man! ..In the same day/ topic??! contradiction at its finest right there.

 

[bullcity gamer]

Jamsession are you a Kentucky fan? You claim all coaches other than Pay Pal Cal promise players perks....

 

[jamsession3]

Jamsession are you a Kentucky fan? You claim all coaches other than Pay Pal Cal promise players perks....

Duke fan since 84... I'm just realistic when it comes to recruiting 4 and 5 start players.

 

[bullcity gamer]

Realistic with no facts to back up your statements about players being promised things haha. Did the players or Coach K tell you what was said in their conversations or were you actually in the room at these home visits?

 

[timo0402]

Realistic with no facts to back up your statements about players being promised things haha. Did the players or Coach K tell you what was said in their conversations or were you actually in the room at these home visits?

It’s only realistic if it can be spun as not being a homer. The “reality” here is in many of these situations nothing needs to be promised in terms of playing time. Rarely do i think it is. You can lay out the blueprint and plans for how they envision you being a part of the team. However, that’s pretty standard and isn’t a “promise or guarantee”. Plans often change. When it comes to these elite kids- the Bagleys, Carter’s, Kyrie and Jabari. Tyus even fit this bill. Those guys aren’t concerned with who is currently on the roster or who else is coming in when it comes to minutes. They know they’ll be on the court. Now for some other guys it might not work out that way, but i can guarantee you the staff wasn’t promising chase jeter he’d get x amount of minutes a game.

 

[bullcity gamer]

^ spot on Timo

 

[PatrickYates]

If you think for a moment a 4 or 5 star recruit is not promised a starting or 6th man position coming into a school you're blind.

It's just part of the game and unfortunately, no, a 4 or 5 start recruit does not want to earn the spot. It should already be their for them!

It isn't "promised." Nothing is overtly promised. K, like every single other effective recruiter, is engaging in a nifty bit of “lawyering” and is applying “legalese.” No, he never explicitly states anything regarding PT, or style of play. But he heavily implies a whole bunch of stuff. Most listeners would think a thing had been explicitly stated, but a careful examination of the exact words used would clearly show that no explicit promises had been offered.
.
Recruits may hear one thing, K may imply that thing, and K might under emphasize possible downsides, but K never STATES anything.

 

[QC Dukie]

I’ve never sat in on a recruiting trip with K so I have no idea what he says to recruits.

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

I’ve never sat in on a recruiting trip with K so I have no idea what he says to recruits.

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

Why I always state on things like this (((( in my opinion )))) Not try to make a case for who’s right /wrong about it, claiming to know, saying somebody’s wrong, trying to prove somebody’s wrong with just opinions, having an argument about it, etc. When hell nobody really knows! ....I’ll just come out and say my opinions more likely though..... lol. Make a case for your (opinion) Not try to cement an (opinIon) into somebodys head, claiming it’s a fact, then saying they’re wrong if they disagree with your (((opinIon)))) Sheesh.

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

Although some opinions are more likely then others ...lol! You also have a better chance of convincing someone when the opiinions don’t contradict each other ....Kylia

 

[QC Dukie]

All I know is, we need to run the pick & roll.