New basketball commit
- Thread starter hailstate19
- Start date
Seems like a good pickup, but I'll admit that it continues to boggle my mind that Howland is apparently fully satisfied with some combination of Molinar and Smith handling the ball for the next 2-3 years. I mean, if either one of those guys so much as tweaks an ankle for a couple weeks, we are in all kinds of trouble
Typical Howland pickup. Wake the fanbase up when he starts recruiting shooters.
The link says he has a "reliable left handed shooting stroke from deep...". You saying he can't shoot? I have no idea
He may be able to shoot but is Howland gonna actually play him should be the real question. Keondre Montgomery was the state's top prospect last year and he averaged 28 points a game with a whole bunch of 3's. He was higher rated than Fountain and Matthews and Howland has played him all of like 7 seconds the entire year.
Each year Howland's recruiting gets more and more complacent. 2021 is 11th in the SEC, 58th nationally. That will not get the butts in the stands.
Several of us have been calling for a shake up with the assistants, if for no other reason than to evaluate Ben. If we start 2021-22 with all new assistants and by 2022-23 the team shows no improvement then we will know that Ben has been the problem. If we get better then it’s likely we just had ****** assistants. Granted I know it won’t be the exact same team, but there will be enough familiarity with our guys to be able to evaluate the changes if any.
And in no way has Ben performed at a level where we would even think of letting him choose his successor. But a way to maybe sell Ben on the cleaning house of assistants would be if he thought he was hiring someone to build on his legacy. Go out and find a couple younger coaches that are lighting it up at the D2 or D3 level. Those guys are hungry, taking long bus rides to games making maybe a 1/3 as a head coach than he could make as a D1 assistant. Kinda let it be known that one of the assistants has a chance to become an associate head coach. Wouldn’t guarantee said associate HC would be the next man up whenever Ben retires voluntarily or involuntarily, but they’d have the first shot to interview and earn the job.
And in no way has Ben performed at a level where we would even think of letting him choose his successor. But a way to maybe sell Ben on the cleaning house of assistants would be if he thought he was hiring someone to build on his legacy. Go out and find a couple younger coaches that are lighting it up at the D2 or D3 level. Those guys are hungry, taking long bus rides to games making maybe a 1/3 as a head coach than he could make as a D1 assistant. Kinda let it be known that one of the assistants has a chance to become an associate head coach. Wouldn’t guarantee said associate HC would be the next man up whenever Ben retires voluntarily or involuntarily, but they’d have the first shot to interview and earn the job.
It’s really been a disturbing 5-yr trend if we’re being honest. I’m not saying that he didn’t have to work to get these guys, but if not for Q’s brother in ‘17 and two legacies in ‘18, the trend has not been good at all.
I thought we had stumbled onto something pretty special after he walked in and got Q/Newman in his first class and then a Top 10 class in year 2, but things have taken a big dip since then.
I thought we had stumbled onto something pretty special after he walked in and got Q/Newman in his first class and then a Top 10 class in year 2, but things have taken a big dip since then.
Do you think talent is a problem on this team? I personally think experience is a much bigger issue than talent.
I'm no big Howland apologist, but I'm sure there's a reason Montgomery isn't playing. If he could help the team, he would be out there.
Were DJ Stewart or Molinar highly ranked recruits? Remember Smith being a pretty big deal. Just saying I'm not so worried about the rankings. I think we are getting talent. We just underachieved last year and I think this year I think are young. Howland is definitely not at his peak and we are frustrating, but I think people are overreacting.
You are dismissing 3 excellent commits just because they have ties to the program which isnt at all fair. Recruiting still has to take place.
Brothers play at other schools all the time. Its really quite common. You are just dismissing the fact that the coaching staff recruited and landed a 5*/high 4* player in Nick Weatherspoon.
And children of former players choose other schools all the time. Its actually the exception when a child plays at the parent's school. Across college basketball, its far more common for kids to choose a different program. Far more common. Again, both Perry and Woodard(along with Carter a couple years earlier) all needed to be recruited to play at MSU.
Perry was a McD AA that was recruited by 10-12 high major programs and didnt commit to MSU until the summer before Sr year. Of course his commitment should be recognized as a success by the coaching staff.
You take a lot for granted.
Both Steward and Molinar were 3*/4* recruits depending on the recruiting site. They were both offered scholarships by many other high major programs, some who are quite successful recently and/or historically. Point being- they werent afterthoughts at all.
Stewart redshirted his first year and that was an awesome decision.
I think experience is the glaring issue, no doubt, and time will tell us about the talent piece. Do we have some guys that are showing potential? Yes, but are guys like Molinar, Stewart, and the Smiths going to be guys that we can eventually count on night in and night out? I hope so, but I’m not sure. I mainly just hope that we get a chance to find out, and by that, I mean that we don’t have 4-5 more transfers after the season
That’s all fine, but no matter whether we want to praise his staff for those efforts or not, the fact of the matter is that no coach can continue to count on legacies forever.
Since the Perry/Woodard class, we’ve only got Molinar and Post left from the ‘19 class that was ranked 13th in the conference. He then finished 9th last year with a group that seems to show promise in certain areas along with some pretty major deficiencies in others. And now he’s got a ‘21 class lined up that’s currently ranked 11th, but is likely to finish 12th or worse by the time things are finalized.
It is going to be very difficult to develop a winning program by combining these recruiting efforts with constant turnover
Since the Perry/Woodard class, we’ve only got Molinar and Post left from the ‘19 class that was ranked 13th in the conference. He then finished 9th last year with a group that seems to show promise in certain areas along with some pretty major deficiencies in others. And now he’s got a ‘21 class lined up that’s currently ranked 11th, but is likely to finish 12th or worse by the time things are finalized.
It is going to be very difficult to develop a winning program by combining these recruiting efforts with constant turnover
The last guy Howland "forgot" to put in the game became a 2nd rd draft pick and is currently averaging a double-double in the G-League..... aka Robert Woodard II
Sorry no offense to anyone but I'm of the opinion basketball team recruiting rankings are dumb. Some teams need to sign 5 guys some need to sign 1. How ya gonna compare the two? The same 10 schools will always get the obvious NBA guys. It's what everyone else can do with the rest that matter. Transfers, coaching and finding the gems outta the ocean of 3* are what separate the good teams from the rest. Oh yea and actually playing the better players on your team instead of the worse ones.
I dont like losing in recruiting rankings because its meaningless fun to win, but this is one of those damned either way sort of situations.
- The coaching staff is criticized for recruiting and landing elite prospects that dont work out and leave like Kegler, Herard, and Newman.
- The coaching staff is criticized for recruiting and landing elite prospects and high level prospects that stay and dont develop as much as fans want like Nick Weatherspoon and Lamar Peters.
- The coaching staff's accomplishments for recruiting and landing elite prospects that are great for the program like Perry, Woodard, and Carter are dismissed and negated just because their dads happened to play for MSU decades ago.
- The coaching staff is criticized for recruiting and landing solid rated recruits who arent elite prospects.
- The coaching staff is criticized for players transferring, even if fans viewed those players as having attitude problems or those players werent good enough to play meaningful minutes.
Really now- the staff is criticized or dismissed for basically any results. It looks like the only scenario that would result in no complaints is if the staff managed to land all 5* and high 4* players who then also all develop as arbitrarily expected by fans through college AND none transfer out which means half the players are happy to ride the bench and never get playing time.
Good luck waiting for that scenario to ever happen.
Also, complaining about roster turnover is just so 2007. ***** changed in the last decade and a half- transfers are everywhere. Players are constantly changing programs- we have some guys on our team like that too...not sure if youve seen.
We get shooters, but when they make it to campus their shot is "fixed" and they become inconsistent head cases.
I really don’t disagree with much of what you’re saying, but the criticism is there because in 6 years, Howland still hasn’t found a formula that works. Is it easy, especially during a pandemic? Of course not, but it’s what he gets paid big money to do
I’ll prepare for people to start going nuts since I’m bringing the Stans comparison back into play, but he’s the perfect example of how a State coach needs to recruit. Lock down the state most years, snag at least one elite recruit virtually every year, and then fill in the blanks with solid 3* and/or transfers that contribute. He never got the credit he deserved for nearly always finding ways to fill gaps.
As far as the transfers go, I hear you. I really do. But losing half your roster via transfer after 3 others decide to go pro can’t be the new norm. It just can’t, and anything more than a couple leaving has to be considered a big disappointment.
I’ll prepare for people to start going nuts since I’m bringing the Stans comparison back into play, but he’s the perfect example of how a State coach needs to recruit. Lock down the state most years, snag at least one elite recruit virtually every year, and then fill in the blanks with solid 3* and/or transfers that contribute. He never got the credit he deserved for nearly always finding ways to fill gaps.
As far as the transfers go, I hear you. I really do. But losing half your roster via transfer after 3 others decide to go pro can’t be the new norm. It just can’t, and anything more than a couple leaving has to be considered a big disappointment.
Stansbury brought them in but he also ran them off too. Please go back all the way to losing to Xavier and just start adding up all the players he didn't like and forced them out. He played favorites all others he wanted gone. It's the reason I was done with him. Not the disappointing finishes not the Stansbury stall not the Hawaiian Punch. Him kicking players like Phil Turner and Romero Osby to the curb. That IS the reason I wanted and still want him gone. He's doing it at WKU too. At the time Tolu transferred here he was the 17th player to leave the WKU program under Bury. That was in 2019 only 3 years since Bury got there.
No doubt, and maybe I’m mis-remembering, but it seemed like it happened under Stans at a much more reasonable rate. Ervin one year, the Delks another, then Hansbrough and eventually Osby... it was frustrating as hell because it was guys that contributed, but I don’t ever remember any sort of mass exodus like last year. Also, the thing about Stans was that he always found ways to plug the holes with legit players. Even when guys like Bender, Outlaw, and Ellis went pro. There was always a backup plan.
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