Very aware. I guess I took the comment as Pelini had more talent to work with than what Nebraska has now. Pelini had Suh.
Nebraska has lost talent . . .
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Very aware. I guess I took the comment as Pelini had more talent to work with than what Nebraska has now. Pelini had Suh.
What if we told you, Frost sounded like a Pelini loyalist when Frost got hired here?
I know what you're referring to. SF is friends with Bo and a former player of his, but I would hardly call him a Pelini loyalist. He turned down a job offer from BP to stay with Chip at Oregon.
There's just as much fault for Riley not hitting the juco's when he knew we were looking at having true freshman or walk-ons as starters. Pelini always relied on recruiting juco players to fill in the gaps.
I think Riley's problem was always more development than talent. Not only did a lot of players not get any better, but some players actually got worse every year as they went through the program.
I do agree with you that this year's players can end up being just as good, if not better than 2014. Anyway it's time to stop blaming past coaches for depth issues, it's year 2 and this is Frost's team now.
Glad you brought up jucos, as they were forbidden, and while it was MR call, he let someone else make that call, either way, it was MR fault.
MR didnt insist on SnC, and let others once again,make the call, much like hiring out to teach the team how to tackle.
As for developement, MR as said was atrocious in SnC, then wasnt big on developement, where Bo at least worked more with his starters. But he too was not a developer of players, and each coach left most to that particular players drive to excel on their own.
Exactly. Of course Frost is a better coach, that develops players and puts them in a position to succeed. But for the most part, Pelini had more talent to work with than Frost has had, so far.
2013 team:
Avery Moss
Maliek Collins
Vince Valentine
Randy Gregory
Zaire Anderson
Nate Gerry
Stanley Jean Baptiste
Ameer Abdullah
Quincy Enunwa
Kenny Bell
Taylor Martinez
Jordan Westerkamp
Brent Qvale
Jeremiah Sireles
Cethan Carter
Andy Janovich
Spencer Long
Taylor Martinez
That's a list of future pros and some really good College Football players. Rittenberg wasn't completely off base. Mike Riley and staff were grossly overrated as evaluators and recruiters.
Pelini's issue is he didn't bring in enough talent. He often didn't have plan B players in place if his top target chose elsewhere.
And his personality impeded his ability to attract high level assistant coaches
Avery Moss
Maliek Collins
Vince Valentine
Randy Gregory
Zaire Anderson
Nate Gerry
Stanley Jean Baptiste
Ameer Abdullah
Quincy Enunwa
Kenny Bell
Taylor Martinez
Jordan Westerkamp
Brent Qvale
Jeremiah Sireles
Cethan Carter
Andy Janovich
Spencer Long
Taylor Martinez
That's a list of future pros and some really good College Football players. Rittenberg wasn't completely off base. Mike Riley and staff were grossly overrated as evaluators and recruiters.
Pelini's issue is he didn't bring in enough talent. He often didn't have plan B players in place if his top target chose elsewhere.
And his personality impeded his ability to attract high level assistant coaches
From the national perspective, it's true. Our won-loss record and lack of kids getting drafted (no one over the last two years other than an under performing transfer QB) bears that out. It's Mike Riley's recruits and the lack of development. It's really a no brainer coment.
What Rittenberg does not know about is the young talent coming up. Talent is coming in. Kids are being pushed to excel in all areas. Hopefully Rittenberg cannot make that same statement in four months.
The no Juco was Eichorst.
Not aRiley fan but he had a long history of recruiting Jucos at Oregon St
Easy to say because you know what they have already done.
You guys were trashing all those players in 2014.
When Wisconsin was naming its score against those players.
I would not say that Frost is "friends" with Pelini. Frost is cordial to just about everybody and Pelini is a coaching contemporary. That's all. To call them freinds is a wild stretch. I don't think Pelini was on Frost's wedding guest list.
You have to go back to what Bo inherited to have a class as highly rated as we currently have from last year.
Clueless reporting,period.
Wandale, could be best player since, AG, or any Husker wr,ever.JD, matches any on his list, maybe peanut could blow out everyone.
Farniok, Jaimes,Benhart,Corcoran,Cam even, who knows?
Darrion Daniels might go next level, so could several guys from our D line.
Our D backfield might end up owning Bo, at Bo's forte.
And rbs, once again, Mo,the two frosh or Mills might be next level.
After seven years of Bo, its easy to see SF catch or blow out this potential year 1 1/2.
Since making things up by said media guy,who obviously has no clue as to how good NPG might be, or Farmer,or Buddha etc etc.
This is worse than comparing eras, this is like comparing eras when the next one hasnt really started yet.
Clueless reporting,period.
Wandale, could be best player since, AG, or any Husker wr,ever.JD, matches any on his list, maybe peanut could blow out everyone.
Farniok, Jaimes,Benhart,Corcoran,Cam even, who knows?
Darrion Daniels might go next level, so could several guys from our D line.
Our D backfield might end up owning Bo, at Bo's forte.
And rbs, once again, Mo,the two frosh or Mills might be next level.
After seven years of Bo, its easy to see SF catch or blow out this potential year 1 1/2.
Since making things up by said media guy,who obviously has no clue as to how good NPG might be, or Farmer,or Buddha etc etc.
This is worse than comparing eras, this is like comparing eras when the next one hasnt really started yet.
I think you are making Adam out to being more reflective and knowledgeable than he is....
1. Bo Pelini Years= 9 wins per year
2. Post-Bo Pelini Years= 5.33 wins per year
3. 5.33 < 9
4. Post Pelini < Bo Pelini
That is it...
If we win 10 next year..then he will say Frost has buffed the program talent-wise. Reporter hacks are reporting to the least common denominator, therefore they say obvious things that simple fans may not know.
Bo was a good coach.. I thought the fans deserved some of his angst too.
He did get some good talent from Clownahan, but Bo was a terrible recruiter.
After the recruiting dipped, he found it harder and harder to make the 9 wins, but he still did it.
I have no animosity for Bo. He doesn't owe anyone anything here.
Now, Riley & Eichorst.. those guys really do owe the fans.. I am still upset at what those guys did to this place. I felt like we were repeatedly raped as a program, all the while Riley was smoothing everything over, talking nice, and handing out cupcakes.
I'll take the honest guy any day over what happened here under smiling Mike.
He did get some good talent from Clownahan, but Bo was a terrible recruiter.
After the recruiting dipped, he found it harder and harder to make the 9 wins, but he still did it.
I have no animosity for Bo. He doesn't owe anyone anything here.
Now, Riley & Eichorst.. those guys really do owe the fans.. I am still upset at what those guys did to this place. I felt like we were repeatedly raped as a program, all the while Riley was smoothing everything over, talking nice, and handing out cupcakes.
I'll take the honest guy any day over what happened here under smiling Mike.
To the contrary, Bo owes the fan base of NU an apology. IF I had pulled the crap he pulled, I would never ever be able to forgive myself for acting that way. All it would take for me to get over it would be a sincere apology to the people of Nebraska for the things he said and did. A grown up would do that. We made him a very wealthy man and he crapped all over us. At least Riley thanked us on the way out the door and acknowledged that he didn't get the job done.
But therein is but one of Bo's flaws, inept, incapable of taking the stage and being true to himself.
He always had the cat, an angle, because he was too weak to show anything but his angst, truly a wimp when it comes to owning up, mending fences.
It showed in his coaching, never getting over the hump, never making adjustments to stop a ncaa record running attack.
One way Bo, and you can best believe it was his way.
Take a look at the 2013 and 2014 schedules. Bo could have wrung a tenth win out of both of them with the talent he had at his disposal.
2013 - losing a 3 year starter to injury early in the season and also having you RS freshman backup battle injury.
2014 - Bo's defense couldn't defend a couple of rather straightforward running plays against MN. Dude would have coached at least another year had he won that game and then also won Iowa.
2015 - take a look at that schedule and tell me that Bo would have have won fewer than 9 games with the talent he had playing in the same offensive and defensive systems. In reality, NU probably plays for the B1G title if Bo is still coaching.
Not a Bo-bot and in reality, cashiering Bo and experiencing Riley-fail led to Frost coming back to Lincoln. Even though Bo was a mediocre recruiter, he leveraged the talent at his disposal to 9 wins year after year.
2013 - losing a 3 year starter to injury early in the season and also having you RS freshman backup battle injury.
2014 - Bo's defense couldn't defend a couple of rather straightforward running plays against MN. Dude would have coached at least another year had he won that game and then also won Iowa.
2015 - take a look at that schedule and tell me that Bo would have have won fewer than 9 games with the talent he had playing in the same offensive and defensive systems. In reality, NU probably plays for the B1G title if Bo is still coaching.
Not a Bo-bot and in reality, cashiering Bo and experiencing Riley-fail led to Frost coming back to Lincoln. Even though Bo was a mediocre recruiter, he leveraged the talent at his disposal to 9 wins year after year.
True to a point, but what happens when purdue gets better, nw gets better, minny is comingback to those beat Bo days, iowa is better than it was?
Would Bo have gotten better? Never showed he could, and imo, it might have gotten very ugly here with him still at the helm.
MR and his wimpish staff was a blessing.
My argument is that we will have a better idea as to how the talent Frost has at his disposal this year compares to that of Pelini teams circa 2013 and 2014 and that Bo had enough talent to win more games that he did in those years. Bo, his staff and his approach to defense in the B1G hurt the win total more than the players he had.
Frost's players now have multiple strength and conditioning cycles and are in Year 2 of the same offensive and defensive systems. The players and staff seem pretty upbeat, which is not surprising. A number of young kids look to be valuable contributors and the staff added a couple of quality 5th year transfer guys. Darrion was chosen as a captain. The schedule is much more favorable than last year. I am looking forward to the season.
If you really believe our talent and depth is that much better now than it was under Pelini, I am going to assume anything less than 10 wins would be an absolute disaster. You can't have it both ways.
Well, is purdue today what it was against Bo?
How about iowa? Or, maybe nw?
Any of the above, including minny can be a trap game, was it like this under Bo?
Currently, we are at 8.5 wins, according to Vegas, so, is it your interpretation thats off in todays Big vs yesterdays, or vegas, by a game and a half?
Thats the third way, and its accurate too.
Just like I owe a munch of the tools on this board an apology for being a dick. Not going to happen
Oh Gawd......the endlessly used BS. Geesh.....if Clownahan really had such outrageously great talent how come he lost to almost everybody? Even in his fourth year as our HC (with all of his so-called AWESOME recruiting talent) his conference record was 2 - 6.
Yeah, yeah....his offense according to almost everybody was terrific but mostly the good stats came from boatloads of garbage time. But.....oh well, thank God he's long gone.
One of these teams is still playing football. I have to see them actually play football.
Now, let's compare coaching staffs, schemes, continuity, culture and Husker Power.
Not defending Riley because he sucked and never should have been hired for a job like this but a lot of the reason he didn't hit the juco market and our strength and conditioning was as anemic as it was, was because of SE's athletic department policies.
Rittenberg isn't basing his quote on potential at the end of this year, he's looking at where it was at the end of last year compared to years past. We have a lot of young potential on this team but a big reason it's so much young potential is that there isn't much substance shown from the older players still here and we are relying on multiple transfers to be serious contributors if not outright starters on both sides of the ball.
I'm looking at what the 2014 team looked like to an outsider before the 2014 season compared to what the 2019 team looks like to one before this season. But lets see what your criticisms are:
1. Way to completely ignore Ameer there. We currently have Washington who looks good but has legal troubles and Mills who also looks good but did all his damage somewhere else. No other back on the roster has more than 80 yards or even a dozen touches to their name. Cross as the 3rd back was coming off a season where he averaged 5.3 ypc and scored 10 touchdowns. To someone looking at more than just potential- Ameer, Newby and Cross pre 2014 looks better than Washington Mills and whoever the 3rd back is pre 2019.
2. He didn't live up to the hype but again pre 2014 Carter and Sam Cotton looked like a better tandem than Stoll and Radafal does - Frosts offense is Way better for TE's than Beck or Langsdorf's was. Once 2019 is over this position will look WAY better than it's looked in a decade, but it hasn't been seen yet.
3. JD is yes, who else ya got? Warner with his 17 catches for 95 yards? Williams with his 12 catches for 122 yards? Ya got a transfer from Cal and a bunch of hopes and dreams who we hope turn into a great WR corps.
2014 has Westercamp, Bell and Enunwa proven commodities and the backups, Turner and Moore each with more production than every WR we have on the roster combined other than those 4 I named.
4. If you are seriously questioning if Pickering and Armstrong looked better than Brown and Foltz I will start questioning if you even know what a football looks like.
Pickering has a career average under 80% Brown was a 3 star kicker who played for one of the best highschools in the country and won multiple kicking awards.
Armstrong actually looked good last year but he was a backup for a reason and only has 24 punts on his record. Foltz already had a full season of 70 kicks and a 41.6 ypk average and was deadly accurate.
Again we're looking at what the roster looks like Pre 2019 to what it looked like Pre 2014 as 2014 was Pelini's worst looking roster.
Going into 2014 we had at least one game changing talent on each side of the ball in and had the hope for 2-3 more mostly from guys on the roster taking that next step.
Going into 2019 we have ONE and we are hoping for 4-5 more mostly coming from transfers and guys with very little to no previous production ie. guys like Jurgens, Honas and a #3 WR.
I was comparing pre 2014 to pre 2019.
Not a single one of those things applies to the question: Has the talent level dropped since Pelini was fired? Bo being a bad coach and program manager while true is irrelevant to the topic.