NBA Playoffs Thread
- Thread starter dukiejay
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Regardless of what happens, another UNC player won’t walk away with a ring.
Nope. Lebron is better than MJ.
Lebron would beat those Stockton/Malone Jazz teams in his sleep.
I thoroughly enjoyed watching MJ play and his accomplishments are unprecedented but Lebron can do more on the court. Cavs are picking top 5 lottery without Lebron.
So M.J. won 6 titles in 6 final apperances playing inferior teams,and Lebron lost 5 of 8 playing superior teams..is this what I'm reading here?? If M.J had not taken 2 years off on an ill advised attempt to play M.L.B.it's quite conceivable he would have WON 8 in a row....that's what I call the GOAT
Neither are the Raptors or the Celtics. You play who's in front of you. I was no Jordan fan, nor am I on the James wagon. They're two of the best ever. Completely different players who played in different eras.
Did MJ take those 2 years off to play in the MLB OR was it an "under-the-table" wink-wink deal with David Stern because MJ was gonna get suspended in the NBA for gambling????????????
A lot of theories support this. The NBA didn't have the greatest image in the early 90's: drug problems, fighting, etc. And MJ getting suspended for gambling would have lit a torch. Hence the wink-wink deal for him to go play baseball then return.
Nothing is off the table when it comes to David Stern. Nothing.
I don't know much about NBA politics,but what does this have to do with titles won or lost? The comparisons between the 2 are strictly personal,you cant really compare players from different Generations,i'll just say that they are the 2 greatest of all time,leave it to the individual to decide who they think is the GOAT
What is your obsession with me bruh?Your theory is supported by theories, instead of evidence?
No posts for a while, then all a sudden you strike on me and revisit a stupid prediction I made over a week ago?? Have you been waiting a full week to submit that??
I don’t think Lebron has any scenario where he passes MJ now . Well unless he comes back wins the title and 3 more in a row. Even then it’s debatable imo
I don't think it's a disgrace to be considered "1B" as the GOAT to Jordan's "1A". And for the first 30 years of my life I thought I'd never see a more complete or better player than Oscar Robertson. So I make him "1C".
I was referring to Finals opponents. Lebron faced Spurs & GSW six times total - Bulls never faced dynasties. Loss to Mavs was bad.
Probably would have won 8. Bulls went seven games against Knicks without MJ, Cavs don't make playoffs without Lebron.
It is an interesting argument that will go on for a while. I am in my upper 30s, so I remember well watching Jordan in my teens and 20s, but LeBron is playing at such a high level right now. This Golden State team that has dominated the NBA the last four years is better than any team Jordan had to beat by a pretty big margin.
There’s no clear or direct way to compare MJ and LBJ, so just have fun with the debate.
My conception of Jordan’s greatness was how consistent his turnaround fade away was. Defenders would guess right and jump to block it before Jordan even left the floor, and he’d still drain it in their face. He seemed to make 75% of those in the playoffs. Then he’d be disruptive as hell on defense chasing down every pass and loose ball, especially if they were losing. He’d be pouring sweat but not look tired at all. Jordan took over games with his will and skill.
Lebron is not that same kind of great. Lebron’s greatness is defined by making life easy for his teammates and then some amazingly athletic plays, epic blocks or crazy shots. Lebron took over games with overwhelming talent and thoughtful game management.
As for the difference in eras or team composition, forget about it. Humans have gotten smarter and bigger and the rules of the game are different.
If I’m choosing between the two players for my team, I take James simply because Jordan did a few things off the court that make me question his character. As far as we know, Lebron has been good to his family and colleagues.
My conception of Jordan’s greatness was how consistent his turnaround fade away was. Defenders would guess right and jump to block it before Jordan even left the floor, and he’d still drain it in their face. He seemed to make 75% of those in the playoffs. Then he’d be disruptive as hell on defense chasing down every pass and loose ball, especially if they were losing. He’d be pouring sweat but not look tired at all. Jordan took over games with his will and skill.
Lebron is not that same kind of great. Lebron’s greatness is defined by making life easy for his teammates and then some amazingly athletic plays, epic blocks or crazy shots. Lebron took over games with overwhelming talent and thoughtful game management.
As for the difference in eras or team composition, forget about it. Humans have gotten smarter and bigger and the rules of the game are different.
If I’m choosing between the two players for my team, I take James simply because Jordan did a few things off the court that make me question his character. As far as we know, Lebron has been good to his family and colleagues.
Your theory is supported by theories, instead of evidence?
I would suggest you google the name Slim Boller and refer to Chicago Tribune article dated 3-29-92 titled Jordan's Acquaintances In Shadowy World.
In defense of MJ (which hurts to even think, much less write), the actual defense MJ faced was much more physical than what is played today. LBJ wouldn't be as successful vs the physical Ds that MJ had to overcome. Some of those Knick defenses, to say nothing of the Bad Boys, would have stymied LBJ teams. LBJ might have personally done OK, but those D's would have stoned his teammates.
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Today, Kevin Love is a pretty legit 2nd or 3rd option on O. Vs the defenses that MJ faced, Love wouldn't be more than a 3rd option on a bad team.
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Of course, vs physical D, this GSW team would have a poop ton of trouble
IDK about who I'd choose. MJ seems to have been a guy that showed up and worked. LBJ seems to try and operate as a shadow GM/coach.
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If LBJ would show up and play, and stay out of the team running aspects, I'd take him. As is, LBJ meddles in the team too much, but won't own those actions at the end of the day.
I agree. He's the reason his supporting cast is terrible. The trades they had to make to build the team he wanted leveraged their future to win in LeBron's window. He also loses in the GOAT talk for me with his team hopping. He left Cleveland to go form a super team. Then once he realized that super team's future wasn't too bright, he ran back to Cleveland (who conveniently had Kyrie and Wiggins by that time). Forced them to trade to get Love to build another super team and now that he's failed as a GM, he's going to go to another team. If he goes to Philly...
At the end of the day, he may be the most physically gifted player who can do the most things, but he is probably the Peyton Manning to Jordan's Tom Brady for me.
Last night's game went exactly like Cleveland needed. Love played great, Hood contributed from the bench, Thompson killed it on the boards. Klay, Steph, and Draymond ALL stunk up the joint, but it still wasn't enough. At crunch time, KD was a stone cold killer.
You're kinda right, except Cleveland has a player on their team named Lebron James. He's pretty good. When he plays bad, they have zero chance of beating anyone. And he turned his ankle fairly early in the game, and had a horrible game after that all happened. It was obvious he wasn't even trying to land on that foot whenever he took a shot.
It's funny, all the things that Cleveland needed to do, they did. And the one aspect that should be a GIVEN, Lebron being the best player on the floor, didn't happen last night.
JR Smith and Kyle Korver should not still be on NBA rosters. Certainly, not on playoff rosters. They are there because LBJ demanded it, and they in turn used that demand to leverage richer contracts than they would otherwise have received. JR is a guy that does OK in the regular season, but stinks it up in the playoffs. Korver is a guy that is less effective on and D the better the opposition gets. Further, both guys are exactly the type of players who falter vs teams as the teams become more familiar with them, like, in, say, a playoff series.
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This roster is as LBJ demanded it.
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Lue should be a mediocre assistant somewhere, not LBJ's puppet. Not playing Hood more was stupid. I think they win game 1 if Hood is in instead of Smith. And it wasn't Lue making that decision. Every thing that happens is driven by one LBJ.
While I agree with most of this. JR played a LARGE role in the Cavs winning the 2016 title, that was merely 2 years ago, he hit some massive three's in game 7. So I don't agree that he stinks it up in the playoffs.
Regardless...JR has aged since then, he is now way overpaid. As a massive Cavs fan, I'll forever love JR for helping win the title, but after this series I hope I never have to watch him play basketball again.
I think what has hurt Lebron's chances of becoming the GOAT is KD signing with the Warriors. I think Lebron might have won a title last year or this year, maybe both. Another thing that has hurt him is that he has to play almost the whole game with no rest just to keep his team in the game. You can tell he's exhausted in the 4th quarter.
I'm curious as to your thoughts as a Cavs fan. Assuming LeBron leaves after this year, Cleveland is likely to be really bad for at least a few years. Will the four year run be worth giving up on the next 5 or so?
This is an honest question, not a dig at Cleveland or LeBron. (Just in case that gets lost in the lack of tone on the Internet).
This is an honest question, not a dig at Cleveland or LeBron. (Just in case that gets lost in the lack of tone on the Internet).
Worth it everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. Have you followed the history of Cleveland sports??? Lebron brought Cleveland a title. That one title would be worth 50 years of being the worst team in the league, sadly.
Not only did the Cavs get a title, they have been at the top of the NBA since Lebron came back in just about every facet: merchadise sales, ticket sales, television ratings, etc. The Cavs have been discussed on television more since Lebron came back than maybe any professional sports franchise. 4 straight finals appearances never hurt matters.
Lebron/ Cavs management has obviously done a poor job of setting the Cavs up for success post-Lebron. However, just about anytime a superstar leaves his team, that team is gonna be terrible for years to come. Paul George and the Pacers this past season was a RARE exception.
Granted. But JR wasn't great the year before, and was mediocre or worse last year. I think his hitting a few 3s in the title year was an outlier, and that better players could easily have been had as a replacement for him. Players that might have resulted in 2-3 titles over that same period of time (incl this year).
Also, if you were going to suck, the next few years are the years in which to do so. The top of the next few drafts are loaded with versatile and skilled guards and wings. Now, depth in those drafts might be an issue, but if LBJ leaves* (which I'm not sure will happen) the Cleve can spend the majority of the Boston/Philly title windows rebuilding with talented, young, players that will enter their primes as Boston and Philly have to blow up their rosters for salary cap reasons. At the least, in 3-5 years, the Cavs can be an entertaining and competitive team again.
All fair. But again, JR hit multiple monster three's in that Game 7, Cavs won the title. I'll take it, not gonna worry about the "what could have been?"
You seem to frequently accuse Lebron of making some terrible trades, and while I tend to agree, most of the Cavs trades have been terrible the past few years, no body really knows if Lebron was behind them.
What is funny though..the JR Smith acquisition was GREAT. The Cavs won that trade in spades, they gave away Dion Waiters (who Kyrie HATED btw, public knowledge) and got Iman Shumpert and JR Smith. JR was supposed to just be a throw in to make the salaries match. Funny revisiting that, and probably was one of the few good moves the Cavs made with Lebron on the roster.
Will they? i noticed quinn was not dressed last night and was not on the roster in the boxscore. i saw him after the game in street clothes dapping kd as they walked to the locker room. anyone know what the deal with quinn is?
Quinn absolutely will get a ring. Quinn was getting andres dressing spot I believe and with him back Quinn wears street clothes. But he will certainly get a ring and deservedly so, he played a key role for the team, as opposed to ride pine the whole year.
You made what you call a stupid prediction, and thought no one would bring it up? Sorry that gets you all riled up.