My take on the state flag
- Thread starter Rick Cleveland
- Start date
Great column. Especially liked the last couple of sentences. It’s long past time to change the flag.
Well done! You forgot to disparage anyone who disagrees with you, but I'll let that slide since you are new at this writing thing.***
Great article, Rick! Tate knows this is the right thing to do. Let’s see if he has the courage to make the change or not. I understand it won’t be easy for him to do politically speaking but this is not about doing the easy thing but rather the right thing.
It really is a shame that people will now "agree" with changing the flag just because of sports. It's amazing where some folks' priorities lie.
And here’s how the legislature stands...
I count only 4 republican wanting the legislature to change it. Most every other republican wants to put it to a vote...at least Bubba, has the balls to say keep it.
https://mississippitoday.org/2020/0...stand-on-changing-the-mississippi-state-flag/
I count only 4 republican wanting the legislature to change it. Most every other republican wants to put it to a vote...at least Bubba, has the balls to say keep it.
https://mississippitoday.org/2020/0...stand-on-changing-the-mississippi-state-flag/
I'm sure this will set a downvote record, but keep one thing in mind, Rick. For or against changing our state flag, this will only be the beginning. It will be in our lifetime when they come for the American flag. They'll drum up all the atrocities that have happened under it such as all the slave ships flying it and not a confederate flag. Such as slavery being accepted under the American flag for almost a 100 years. Then you mentioned the confederate flag flying at kkk and skinhead rallies. Hate to break this to you...it's not the only one.
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Oh no, they're coming for our Jim Crow state flag, and our sheets too?
It's a Jim Crow flag that flew over more than 500 lynchings. I'm surprised anyone would defend it in this day and age. Trying to change the subject is defending it.
It's a Jim Crow flag that flew over more than 500 lynchings. I'm surprised anyone would defend it in this day and age. Trying to change the subject is defending it.
You really believe that? Really? Holy ****. Its phenomenal how scared people are of the simple act of getting rid of an open and obvious racist symbol and want to defend it with ridiculously remote and impossible scenarios that are nothing but whataboutism and red herrings.
Goodbye Mississippi State baseball.
Goodbye Mississippi State baseball.
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Impossible scenario? So you always knew and expected Aunt Jemima, Uncle Ben, and Land O Lake butter would change their packaging due to it being racist? Live PD and Cops being cancelled due to it supporting law enforcement? Calls for law enforcement to be defunded or eliminated? No you didn't. Nobody did. 2020 has been the year of impossible scenarios. I'm not defending what happened under the confederate flag. I'm just saying after all memories of the confederacy have been torn down, eliminated, and wiped from our memories it won't be enough. They'll come after something else. They'll find pictures like what I posted. They'll come to the realization that every single act that happened under the confederate flag that has caused all the uproar we are witnessing today has also happened under the American flag. That's not changing the subject or defending what occurred in the past or under another flag. It's just a simple statement of fact.
The Dred Scott decision. The 3/5 compromise. Slavery itself. All supported and carried out under the American flag.
I love this country. I love our flag. I'm not ashamed of it and don't want it changed. But I am saying it's never enough for the woke crowd. They look for things to be offended about. Right now it's anything dealing with the confederacy. Once it's gone it'll be something else. And I'm telling you what that something else is.
Ahh. How refreshing. The good ol’ “I’m ok with stuff but let me deflect with a complete hypothetical to scare the 17 out of you to make you second guess what you’re thinking” routine. Some call it deflection, some call with whataboutism, I call it nothing short of fearmongering.
You have absolutely no 17ing clue what “it” will be. You’re making a single-minded argument to appeal to those with absolutely no ability to think for themselves. Congrats. You’ve inevitably hidden your fear of different races into a “I’m not racist, but...” scenario. Keep being you, bro.
Pretty sure I know of the next 4-6 posters who will come to your rescue to talk about heritage, the “real” meaning of the confederate battle flag, and the inevitable [insert liberal/progressive/democrat derogatory phrase here] issues that are really at play.
Face it, big business, conservatives like me (the ones that believe in fiscal conservatism AND social constructs), and pretty much anyone with a semblance of critical thinking ability realize it’s time for the flag to be placed in a museum.
But by all means, keep living in the “but THEY will take xxxxxxxxx next.” Just make sure the next thing “they” take isn’t something keeping Mississippi from competing with the rest of the world; because the flag absolutely is just that. Don’t believe me, just check the stances of everyone who is actively working to make Mississippi better.
I was waiting to be called a racist. Surprised it took someone this long to do it. First of all, asshat, you know nothing about me. Nothing in my posts can be remotely construed as racist except by people that can't argue the facts. I also never said I am for keeping the current flag. All I said is everything that people hate the confederate flag for has happened under the American flag. That's not debatable. And in today's perpetually charged "I'm offended" atmosphere nothing will ever make the woke crowd happy. They hopscotch from one issue to the next demanding the world change to fit their narrative. There's already a contingent of people in this country that hate it. How many of these far left protests have you seen where they're burning or walking on the American flag? How many year ago was it the Supreme Court ruled it was legal to desecrate the American flag as a form of protest? 30? I don't remember and not in the mood to look it up, but the point is there is already some momentum headed that direction. Once they have nothing else to be offended by that will be the next piece of low hanging fruit they go after.
Very fair points and I agree with you but at the same time where does this end? The snowball is getting bigger and bigger to the point that it almost devalues the work, the fight, and the effort put forth for social change regarding race.
My take on the current flag? Get rid of it because it looks ******. Have always thought it looked ******.
Rick, I would respectfully ask you take one more look at this from another angle. In my most sincere and honest opinion the state of Mississippi was at the very cusp of showing the nation we've changed by voting the old flag out. There have been many good men working on this for years. The most important part was PROVING TO THE NATION we've changed. IMO the NCAA has done a degree of irreparable damage to our state in attempting to force this change. My point is, if we change now the rest of the country will ALWAYS think we changed because we were forced to do so and that nothing has changed in our hearts. I know I know it's past due but it was here right in our grasp and now we're just gonna look like we are replacing one piece of cloth with another to appease the the stinking, corrupt NCAA.
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The problem with the Confederate flag isn't merely that it flew over atrocities like slavery. If that were the case, every flag in the world would have to come down.
The problem with the Confederate flag is that the whole point of the nation it represented was slavery. I think we've all seen the secession declarations and know that slavery was 100% of the reason that the states seceded.
Yes, the American flag has presided over atrocities, but those atrocities weren't the whole point of why America was founded, and it has had nearly 250 years to represent a lot more than that. Maybe in an alternate timeline the CSA could have won its independence, abolished slavery, and become another country that emphasized freedom and equality. Maybe the Confederate flag would have stormed the beaches at Normandy along with the rest, and would not be seen as a flag of racism and slavery anymore.
But it never got that chance. That's why the analogy to the American flag doesn't work. The American flag had time to rise above atrocities like slavery and stand for something better, and the Confederate flag didn't, and that's why it's got to go.
The problem with the Confederate flag is that the whole point of the nation it represented was slavery. I think we've all seen the secession declarations and know that slavery was 100% of the reason that the states seceded.
Yes, the American flag has presided over atrocities, but those atrocities weren't the whole point of why America was founded, and it has had nearly 250 years to represent a lot more than that. Maybe in an alternate timeline the CSA could have won its independence, abolished slavery, and become another country that emphasized freedom and equality. Maybe the Confederate flag would have stormed the beaches at Normandy along with the rest, and would not be seen as a flag of racism and slavery anymore.
But it never got that chance. That's why the analogy to the American flag doesn't work. The American flag had time to rise above atrocities like slavery and stand for something better, and the Confederate flag didn't, and that's why it's got to go.
I agree it is possible the American flag will become a target in the future, but I will debate you that "all the things that people hate the confederate flag for" happened under the American flag. The confederate battle flag has been used as a symbol for white supremacy ever since the war ended. It was used to show support for Jim Crow laws, and used at lynchings. Just because some of those groups may also have waived American flags does not mean they were using Old Glory as a symbol for hatred. Black Americans in the South knew to be wary of people displaying the Rebel Flag.
Then, after Brown v. Board of Education, segregationists used the Rebel flag as their symbol. Georgia changed its state flag to incorporate the symbol (a move they rectified in 2001) and Alabama began flying the Rebel flag from the capitol dome. It is very telling that Alabama did not fly the "Stars and Bars", the National flag of the CSA, but instead flew the battle flag as a symbol that it would not comply with the Supreme Court decision. The American flag was also flying there, but it was the Rebel flag sending the message of White supremacy.
The Rebel flag flew in Montgomery for 25 years, until enormous National pressure convinced them to tale it down. And in the 80s, few people were arguing that CSA symbols were inherently racist...they were directly, and accurately, attacking the Rebel flag as a symbol of white supremacy.
Im not saying that everyone who flew the Rebel flag was racist. I do think a lot of people just saw it as a symbol of pride in their Southern heritage. I dont think the country and Southern Rock musicians who displayed the flag were necessarily racist, although some of them may have been.
But i do believe people who think the Rebel flag is not an inherently racist symbol should do just a minimum of research into how that flag has been used and perceived over the years. They might also look into why we were raised to be so proud of our "Southern Heritage" and to romanticize the mythology of the Confederate soldier. Maybe find some other way to display your Southern Pride.
i don't give a crap about the flag either way which probably means it should change to something we all have pride in.
However, what's the end game? Where are you willing to stop the madness? Are you ok if a group of thugs occupied your property with barricades and automatic weapons-or is that too far? Maybe you're ok with them standing on the street in front of your house with signs and horns intimidating you and your family because of a twitter post - is that ok? Is busting out your car windows on the way to walmart ok? These are all the same people working from the same playbook to reach the same goal.
That’s the million dollar question, and this is probably going to come across as condescending even though I don’t mean it that way, but I think it ends when the the social change leads develop an actual set of objectives. Until then, groups are grasping for anything that can possibly be viewed as a moral victory which could also feasibly continue on down the rabbit hole until we’re no longer on this earth
C'mon man we just gettin started
https://www.foxnews.com/us/ulysses-grant-statue-toppled-san-francisco
https://www.foxnews.com/us/ulysses-grant-statue-toppled-san-francisco
Doing the right thing needs no justification other than it’s right. People trying to tie the curing of all other world problems to the state flag are just...well, indescribable. It makes no sense.
should we change our flag before or after Yale changes it's name and distributes its endowment to blacks?
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