Moorhead's offense against SEC defenses

[Trojanbulldog19]

I've been kind of curious as to who some of the best big 10 defenses were the last two years to go back and watch how Moorhead's offense did. I never really paid too much attention to the big 10 last year. I know ohio state was good and only watched a few other big 10 games. For the most part, I never have associated them with great defense. I know we will find out soon enough of how his scheme will work, but i'm interested in seeing how the scheme worked against defenses that will be similar to what we face in the SEC. i've watched some of the michigan vs penn state game from last year, but michigan just doesn't really seem very good in the front 7 at all.

 

[MSUDC11]

Michigan finished number three in the country in total defense. Michigan State was 7, Ohio State was 9.

Penn State did play quite a few teams that weren’t very good, but they averaged 35 points a game against those three defenses, each of whom were comparable to Alabama and Georgia statistically. I have no doubt his offense can work in the SEC.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

didn't realize they were that high in the big 10. i just have a hard time believe that. i've never though defense when I thought big 10. Penn State made Michigan's defense look like swiss cheese. that is a good sign.

 

[Dawgzilla]

IMHO, football is football. The only difference between SEC defenses and the rest of the country is the level of athletic talent teams bring to the field week to week. I'm sure PSU faced teams that were more talented than them at certain positions, and teams that were less talented. They rarely scored fewer than 30 points under JoMo. If our offense cannot withstand facing SEC defenses every week, that will be more of a talent/conditioning issue than Moorhead's offense.

 

[MSUDC11]

didn't realize they were that high in the big 10. i just have a hard time believe that. i've never though defense when I thought big 10. Penn State made Michigan's defense look like swiss cheese. that is a good sign.

That game is one of Moorhead’s shining moments at Penn State. I remember watching it live and it was one of the best called offensive games I’ve seen.

 

[Palos verdes]

SEC defenses are nastier and more athletic than B1G defenses.

 

[Dawgzilla]

It's all relative....SEC offenses are generally more athletic than B1G offenses, too. The question is whether the talent gap between State's offense and the top defenses in the SEC is any greater than the talent gap between Penn State's offense and the top defenses in the B1G. I honestly don't know the answer to that. But I do believe that Moorhead's offense will do a better job of overcoming that gap than Mullen's offense ever did.

 

[engie]

i've never though defense when I thought big 10

I'm curious what you do think of when you think big10?

Go back and watch the Penn St/Ohio St game on 30 minute football. Watch the Ohio St comeback. Joe accomplished all of that in his time at Penn St with a swiss cheese OL. McSorley and Barkley had zero chance to do anything in the 4th quarter of that game when Ohio St went to dialing it up.

 

[GloryDawg]

I kind of imagine Moorehead's offense is likes Mullen's but a lot more down field passing. It worked for Mullen until the fourth quarter when his but puckered up. I don't think we will have much butt puckering with Moorehead.

 

[patdog]

I thought so too until I checked. I didn't realize just how run heavy Mullen's offenses at MSU were. Only in 2015 did we attempt more passes than rushes. And overall Mullen ran the ball 58% of the time. I think we're going to be much closer to 50-50 under Moorhead. I think he'll be much more creative in the passing game.

 

[mount lefroy]

Michigan finished number three in the country in total defense. Michigan State was 7, Ohio State was 9.

Penn State did play quite a few teams that weren’t very good, but they averaged 35 points a game against those three defenses, each of whom were comparable to Alabama and Georgia statistically. I have no doubt his offense can work in the SEC.

I’m not disagreeing but a comparison vs Michigan or Michigan State last year is not a good indication of whether Moorhead will be effective vs the sec. It may or may not be.

 

[coach66]

I think our TE's might actually be involved too.

nm

 

[GloryDawg]

I thought so too until I checked. I didn't realize just how run heavy Mullen's offenses at MSU were. Only in 2015 did we attempt more passes than rushes. And overall Mullen ran the ball 58% of the time. I think we're going to be much closer to 50-50 under Moorhead. I think he'll be much more creative in the passing game.

I agree but I do think State will take more down field shots under Moorehead.

 

[MSUDC11]

I’m not disagreeing but a comparison vs Michigan or Michigan State last year is not a good indication of whether Moorhead will be effective vs the sec. It may or may not be.

I don’t see any reason that suggest he won’t be successful in the SEC. Faring well against great Big 10 defenses is a good barometer, in my opinion.

The idea that the SEC has an over abundance of big, bad defenses is not true right now. And even it was, Moorhead’s is the kind of offense that can work against great defenses. It’s not too reliant on the run like Mullen tends to be, nor is it too reliant on the pass like teams like Ole Miss and A&M have been over the years. It’s a very balanced system that will probably work really well in this league.

 

[patdog]

Oh, I do too. I just think there's going to be a lot more differences between Moorhead's offense and the one we've been using. I think we're going to spread the field both vertically and horizontally a lot more than we have been.

 

[patdog]

He'll be successful. It's not that big of a jump from the Big 10 East to the SEC West.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

I kind of imagine Moorehead's offense is likes Mullen's but a lot more down field passing. It worked for Mullen until the fourth quarter when his but puckered up. I don't think we will have much butt puckering with Moorehead.

I don't think you can really compare the two. Mullen's offense focused almost entirely around the QB being able to run and run it alot and with power.

Moorhead's offense is full of RPOs which are basically a pre snap read and a post snap read I think. QB will certainly run, but he won't be forced into many QB power runs like Mullen.

Also, 3rd/4th & short will have many plays to choose from as opposed to Mullen's one play: QB power.

 

[ColoradoDawg]

I still wish would still learn to line up under center and run the ball, particularly inside the 5 yard lines. I have never been a big believer of shotgun inside of the 5 yard line.

Of course trickery and shotgun snaps can work inside the 5, but just ask Pete Carroll why its always a good idea to be able to slam the ball in the end-zone old school style and not get too fancy.

My only other bit of criticism is that these explosive types offenses can sometimes let teams get back into games due the lack of time of possession. Its good to be able to close a game running the ball and not start trying to huck it down field if you have a good lead in the second half.

Having said those things...scoring lots of points is good and this offense will score lots points

 

[thf24]

I still wish would still learn to line up under center and run the ball, particularly inside the 5 yard lines. I have never been a big believer of shotgun inside of the 5 yard line.

Of course trickery and shotgun snaps can work inside the 5, but just ask Pete Carroll why its always a good idea to be able to slam the ball in the end-zone old school style and not get too fancy.

My only other bit of criticism is that these explosive types offenses can sometimes let teams get back into games due the lack of time of possession. Its good to be able to close a game running the ball and not start trying to huck it down field if you have a good lead in the second half.

Having said those things...scoring lots of points is good and this offense will score lots points

Mullen's offense used a zone blocking scheme that was designed to create holes at or near the line of scrimmage, not blow defenders back. We most likely mostly stayed in the shotgun near the goal line because Mullen thought, as is the case most of the time in sports and beyond, that it was more to our advantage to stick to what we knew rather than situationally deviate to plays or formations that we didn't execute regularly and weren't built for.

No idea if Moorhead will take the same stance, but I wouldn't be surprised as I'm sure his blocking scheme is similar.

 

[ShrubDog]

He just came from arguably the best division in college football, the Big Ten East. The SEC West is probably still behind them this year.

 

[Xenomorph]

PSU, MI, Rutgers, Maryland, Indiana.... vs ...Bama, Auburn, LSU, MSU, A&M, Ark, OM

Say what?

 

[ShrubDog]

Add Mich State. So are you telling me the top 4 in our division, Bama, MSU, Auburn and LSU are better than Ohio St, Michigan, MSU and Penn State?


Mich State is returning 19 starters and picked 4th. Is LSU better?

 

[Xenomorph]

My bad.. I was thinking OSU was in the West. They give them the edge.

 

[ShrubDog]

Yep. They are loaded man. I hate to admit it.

 

[patdog]

He just came from arguably the best division in college football, the Big Ten East. The SEC West is probably still behind them this year.

Per Sagarin, SEC West #1, ACC Atlantic #2, & Big 10 East #3. All 3 are very tough though.

 

[ShrubDog]

Very tough divisions. Take away Lamar Jackson from Louisville and they are an unknown. Don’t agree with sagrin imo. Fsu will be better followed by NC state. Clemson has a cake walk.

 

[Crazy Cotton]

That would be amazing. Somebody help me out, in Dan's first several years, it seems like we had a lot more TE play, and even had a fullback on the field on a regular basis. Was the change more about adapting to personnel, or was that more the result of an evolving offensive scheme?

 

[MSUDawgFan86]

The Big 10 plays Defense. They had 4 teams in the top 10 total defense in 2017. The SEC had 3. I think the whole SEC plays nasty defense argument is a little overstated sometimes. Oklahoma just shredded the hell out of Georgia’s D in this past years playoff. Georgia’s D was the 2nd best D in the conference and They put up 48 points on them when we could only score 3. UCF put up 34 on Auburn and State put up 10. Wake Forest put up 55 points on Texas A&M. We play good defense in the SEC for sure overall but not to the point where we can turn up our nose to the BIG 10. Now the BIG 12 is a whole different story. Those guys have zero interest in playing D over there.

 

[HammerOfTheDogs]

SEC defenses are nastier and more athletic than B1G defenses.

SEC defenses are nastier and more athletic, but B1G defenses are more cerebral. They place a premium on anticipation and technique.

 

[ShrubDog]

The Big 10 plays Defense. They had 4 teams in the top 10 total defense in 2017. The SEC had 3. I think the whole SEC plays nasty defense argument is a little overstated sometimes. Oklahoma just shredded the hell out of Georgia’s D in this past years playoff. Georgia’s D was the 2nd best D in the conference and They put up 48 points on them when we could only score 3. UCF put up 34 on Auburn and State put up 10. Wake Forest put up 55 points on Texas A&M. We play good defense in the SEC for sure overall but not to the point where we can turn up our nose to the BIG 10. Now the BIG 12 is a whole different story. Those guys have zero interest in playing D over there.

They are really loaed up there. I keep in touch with whats going on at the camps, who is plugging holes and all other useless information. That division is really strong up top right now.

The Urban Myers stuff is the biggest joker card right now. If he is out, heads will be rolling. Ole Patterson and Harbaugh are under a microscope and need QB play to go with the defense. Thats going to be interesting to watch.

 

[patdog]

Do you have a better independent ranking to use? SEC West had the national champions last year, a team that beat both teams in the national championship game, two other teams that finished in the top 20, and only one real dead weight in Arkansas. Big 10 East had 3 top 20 teams, none made the playoffs, and had 3 dead weights in Rutgers, Indiana and Maryland.

 

[ShrubDog]

If you go with say ESPN power rankings they have Sec West, Big Ten East and ACC Atlantic. Im saying the ACC Atlantic’s top 4 teams cant compare to the Big Ten East teams in terms of Defense and overall quality. NC State, Wake Forest and Boston College are not on the same level as Penn State, Michigan and Michigan State right now or last year. However, NC State should not be bad. Louisville will probably finish 5th. Its all Clemson. Hell Syracuse beat Clemson last year as a 23 point dog.

There are not many/any national college guys ranking the ACC over the Big Ten. Now in terms of defense the Big Ten was ranked higher than the SEC last year and its possible they will be ahead of the SEC again.

Correction from earlier - Michigan State is preseason ranked #12, returns 21 starters not 19, won 10 games last year and is picked to finish 4th. That division is extra deep this year. The SEC West is usually a one horse race. Now if we compare the overall strengths of the conferences the SEC is tops.

 

[boatsandhoes]

I’m gonna go with it’s dependent on the oline. I liked Mullen ok, but our offensive line has always been substandard limiting what we could do against great D-lines. SEC West d-lines are elite. If you can’t block them you have to stay vanilla. We couldn’t attack ppl because of limitations. I think JOMO is going to attack ppl.

no secret I think hevesy was a shitshow, and Mullen worse for keeping him.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

I honestly don't think that much of the big 10 conference as whole. i realize the SEC has been down some especially in the east, but I still like the matchup between SEC teams and big 10 teams. I'm not saying JoMo's offense won't work. I was just wondering what the comparison would be like to watch the offense against a really fast and aggressive front 7. You just said that when ohio state dialed it in they had a really hard time with it. That kind of worries me against teams like auburn and alabama that have tough front 7's that are going to dial it in. I hope his RPO style comes in to play with our skill set of players to run and quick dump. The defensive front 7's in the SEC are usually more physical and faster than those of the big 10. I rarely hear of really good front 7's in the big 10. I understand the the big 10 is know for running the football and cornfed big offensive lineman. I just don't think they face the same type of defensive linemen that we do. If you try to drop back and pass a lot, i think you get smoked by defensive linemen in the SEC unless you have A+ linemen across the board. i know it's really hard to compare because it's a different set of players and we really won't know how well the offense is going to run until we see it in action. I just don't want to get too pass happy because they mention in almost every press conference about throwing it down field more. I'm just hoping it's well balanced and we are physical with the football.

 

[johnson86-1]

I honestly don't think that much of the big 10 conference as whole. i realize the SEC has been down some especially in the east, but I still like the matchup between SEC teams and big 10 teams. I'm not saying JoMo's offense won't work. I was just wondering what the comparison would be like to watch the offense against a really fast and aggressive front 7. You just said that when ohio state dialed it in they had a really hard time with it. That kind of worries me against teams like auburn and alabama that have tough front 7's that are going to dial it in. I hope his RPO style comes in to play with our skill set of players to run and quick dump. The defensive front 7's in the SEC are usually more physical and faster than those of the big 10. I rarely hear of really good front 7's in the big 10. I understand the the big 10 is know for running the football and cornfed big offensive lineman. I just don't think they face the same type of defensive linemen that we do. If you try to drop back and pass a lot, i think you get smoked by defensive linemen in the SEC unless you have A+ linemen across the board. i know it's really hard to compare because it's a different set of players and we really won't know how well the offense is going to run until we see it in action. I just don't want to get too pass happy because they mention in almost every press conference about throwing it down field more. I'm just hoping it's well balanced and we are physical with the football.

Well, for what it's worth, RPO seems to give Bama's D fits. Granted it's because refs don't do a great job of calling ineligible receivers down field and that helps suck Bama's defense in, but the teams with recent success against them are basically Auburn, Clemson, Ole Miss, and OSU. Auburn and Ole Miss both hit the RPO pretty hard. So three out of their last 5 losses.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

you are right they do seem to have problems with that kind of play. it really keeps them off guard the last few years.

I would say we replicate whatever we did this past year against bama, and then not get a tight sphincter in the 4th quarter because whatever we were doing seemed to work against them. new defensive coach there now though so who knows what if anything they change. i know it's saban's defense. I think mullen just coached to tight in the forth quarter and really costed us some drives with some dumb play calls. JoMo seems like a really cerebral coach so expect him to not do that. I expect him to do what is working and then if it's not to figure it out. I think mullen had the habit to try to out think himself and try something different when something was working. When something wasn't working, he would keep trying to pound the square peg into the round hole. qb power for instance. predictable. I'm hoping JoMo will be a little less predictable, and if something is working don't change it until it can be stopped. if it's not figure it out quickly and stop trying to make it work.