So if those players hadn't gone to college for a year they would suck in the NBA? No one is saying he's a bad coach, but when you have a roster of players who would have been first round picks going against college teams with inferior talent it just is what it is. Ben Simmons went #1 overall but I don't consider that because of his development at LSU.
"Monk the Punk"
- Thread starter Random UK Fan
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So if those players hadn't gone to college for a year they would suck in the NBA? No one is saying he's a bad coach, but when you have a roster of players who would have been first round picks going against college teams with inferior talent it just is what it is. Ben Simmons went #1 overall but I don't consider that because of his development at LSU.
If Monk would've gone to Arkansas, nobody would even know who he is. Kentucky is the big stage and Arkansas is the broom closet. Could he still have been drafted in the lottery? Possibly but it's alot less likely. One point I haven't seen mentioned alot is that he's going up against tough competition in practice every single day. That's where you get better and that's where you develop -- not playing in Bud Walton against podunk U in front of 6,000 idiot fans who are so proud you stayed home
Yep, cant agree more especially at the NCAA D1 level. Coach Cal is by far the best recruiter to ever coach in the NCAA. I do think he is an average "IN GAME" coach.
I totally get Arkansas fans (and others) being unwilling to concede that Cal actually develops his players (it's hard to acknowledge the strengths of a rival... or, in this instance, a would-be rival). We can disagree on whether or not Cal develops his players (and I do disagree), but there is no debate as to the benefit of a player like Monk choosing Kentucky over Arkansas.
While it might be accurate to conclude that most of the 5-star players Cal recruits would still be drafted by the NBA regardless of where they decided to play in college, that is certainly not the case for all of them. To cite just one example, Malik Newman, a very similar prospect to Monk who was actually ranked higher in his class than Monk was, clearly made a terrible decision when he chose to stay home and play for Mississippi State rather than come play for Cal at UK. He fell completely off the national radar and was not able to showcase his skills. Perhaps he was just not as good as advertised (that happens sometimes), but even for the guys who live up to the hype, it's generally a poor decision for their personal brand and development as a player and future pro to go somewhere out of the spotlight. Ben Simmons was still drafted #1, but his year at LSU was mostly a disaster and he went from the clear cut #1 draft pick to a guy with a lot of questions dogging him and at least some thought that the Sixers might select Brandon Ingram over him). Markelle Fultz is having a terrific freshman year at Washington and will still be drafted high, but most of America has no idea who he is because they never see Washington play or hear anything about them and he will likely miss the NCAA Tournament.
As for player development, I think the Hog fans (and others) are not fully understanding what "development" encompasses. The list of already great players Cal has helped develop into more well-rounded players is long (just watch Monk's first 2 games at UK and compare it to what we're seeing now... he's a completely different player now who plays under control at all times, knows the difference between a good shot and a bad shot now, and actually plays defense now... still working on rebounding, but that will come). But playing at UK offers so much more crucial development than just what happens on the court. The spotlight is bright here both from a local and national perspective and the kids are learning from day one how to be a professional - how hard you have to work, how to deal with the media and intense public scrutiny and fame, how to play with other star players, and how to give back to your community (the servant leadership that Cal is always preaching).
Kentucky is not the only school that signs these elite one-and-done players, but it is indisputable that UK's guys generally adjust much quicker to being an NBA player and blossom into star players at a higher rate than the other schools' players. That's not a coincidence.
While it might be accurate to conclude that most of the 5-star players Cal recruits would still be drafted by the NBA regardless of where they decided to play in college, that is certainly not the case for all of them. To cite just one example, Malik Newman, a very similar prospect to Monk who was actually ranked higher in his class than Monk was, clearly made a terrible decision when he chose to stay home and play for Mississippi State rather than come play for Cal at UK. He fell completely off the national radar and was not able to showcase his skills. Perhaps he was just not as good as advertised (that happens sometimes), but even for the guys who live up to the hype, it's generally a poor decision for their personal brand and development as a player and future pro to go somewhere out of the spotlight. Ben Simmons was still drafted #1, but his year at LSU was mostly a disaster and he went from the clear cut #1 draft pick to a guy with a lot of questions dogging him and at least some thought that the Sixers might select Brandon Ingram over him). Markelle Fultz is having a terrific freshman year at Washington and will still be drafted high, but most of America has no idea who he is because they never see Washington play or hear anything about them and he will likely miss the NCAA Tournament.
As for player development, I think the Hog fans (and others) are not fully understanding what "development" encompasses. The list of already great players Cal has helped develop into more well-rounded players is long (just watch Monk's first 2 games at UK and compare it to what we're seeing now... he's a completely different player now who plays under control at all times, knows the difference between a good shot and a bad shot now, and actually plays defense now... still working on rebounding, but that will come). But playing at UK offers so much more crucial development than just what happens on the court. The spotlight is bright here both from a local and national perspective and the kids are learning from day one how to be a professional - how hard you have to work, how to deal with the media and intense public scrutiny and fame, how to play with other star players, and how to give back to your community (the servant leadership that Cal is always preaching).
Kentucky is not the only school that signs these elite one-and-done players, but it is indisputable that UK's guys generally adjust much quicker to being an NBA player and blossom into star players at a higher rate than the other schools' players. That's not a coincidence.
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Uh, yeah. They are 12-2 wanting to dance. I think they just want to win first. Now if they were 2-12, perhaps some shenanigans.
My guess is taking 3 different schools to a #1 ranking is a better judge of coaching talent than that word. Iow, you have no argument unless you want to mention all the one and done's at UMass.
This might be the dumbest post of the year....and that's saying something on this board.
At the start of the season, i don't think Monk was projected as a lottery selection. Neither was Bam. Fox was borderline. Let's see where they all wind up.
Karl Towns wasn't even ranked in the top 10 in his class. (#1 pick after 1 season)
WCS was fringe top 50 (#6 pick)
Devin Booker was a 4 star player (Lottery pick after 1 season)
Tyler Ulis was 5'9", not overly athletic, and on no one's draft board ever (#34 pick after 2 seasons)
Jamal Murray was a late reclassification who was ranked outside the top 10 in his original class (Top 10 pick after 1 year)
Eric Bledsoe was an after thought fringe 5 star player with turnover issues (Top 20 pick after 1 year)
Josh Harrelson was a 3 star JUCO transfer who made no contributions under previous coach. (Drafted 45th and spent multiple seasons in the NBA)
DeAndre Liggins was a 4 star player with no apparent hope of making an NBA roster. (2nd round draft pick after junior season and now plays key minutes for defending NBA champions)
Darius Miller was a tentative 4 star (#46 pick in the NBA Draft who played in the league multiple seasons.)
Derek Willis was a top 100 player who couldn't play 30 seconds at a high level. Last year he started for an SEC championship team.
That doesn't even touch on the transformation guys like Davis, Cousins, Bam, Knight, and Patterson made in just a few short months. But yeah, going to Kentucky is stupid b/c no one develops. That's utter nonsense. When you go into a high level program with top flight coaches, trainers, and staff you will get better. When you add going against other elite players and athletes every day in practice, and your game is circled on everyone's calendar, you'll get a lot better very quickly. That's certainly what we've seen at UK the last 8 years.
Karl Towns wasn't even ranked in the top 10 in his class. (#1 pick after 1 season)
WCS was fringe top 50 (#6 pick)
Devin Booker was a 4 star player (Lottery pick after 1 season)
Tyler Ulis was 5'9", not overly athletic, and on no one's draft board ever (#34 pick after 2 seasons)
Jamal Murray was a late reclassification who was ranked outside the top 10 in his original class (Top 10 pick after 1 year)
Eric Bledsoe was an after thought fringe 5 star player with turnover issues (Top 20 pick after 1 year)
Josh Harrelson was a 3 star JUCO transfer who made no contributions under previous coach. (Drafted 45th and spent multiple seasons in the NBA)
DeAndre Liggins was a 4 star player with no apparent hope of making an NBA roster. (2nd round draft pick after junior season and now plays key minutes for defending NBA champions)
Darius Miller was a tentative 4 star (#46 pick in the NBA Draft who played in the league multiple seasons.)
Derek Willis was a top 100 player who couldn't play 30 seconds at a high level. Last year he started for an SEC championship team.
That doesn't even touch on the transformation guys like Davis, Cousins, Bam, Knight, and Patterson made in just a few short months. But yeah, going to Kentucky is stupid b/c no one develops. That's utter nonsense. When you go into a high level program with top flight coaches, trainers, and staff you will get better. When you add going against other elite players and athletes every day in practice, and your game is circled on everyone's calendar, you'll get a lot better very quickly. That's certainly what we've seen at UK the last 8 years.
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Well, I appreciate that this discussion actually had some good points instead of constantly namecalling. I think the thing that fans don't understand is that athletes don't always have the same mindset that fans do. If I could be drafted in the top 5 at some other school or drafted in the top 15 from Arkansas and play for a better NBA team I would take the latter in a heartbeat, but not every athlete grows up a diehard fan of their home state team. Just saw an interview where Malik said he never had any college team he really rooted for growing up (could just be giving a smart answer, but still). Some probably don't even keep up with college basketball when they aren't playing.
Our fans booed KeVaughn Allen every chance they got but our players from Arkansas that knew him or played against him in high school helped him off the floor and were pretty nice to him. Wouldn't surprise me if Monk is still friends with some of our guys.
Our fans booed KeVaughn Allen every chance they got but our players from Arkansas that knew him or played against him in high school helped him off the floor and were pretty nice to him. Wouldn't surprise me if Monk is still friends with some of our guys.
I'd say Cal developed Willis into a pretty good player. And Harrellson, and Hawkins, and Miller. What a stupid statement by a clueless hater.
As the #5 pick you would earn $9.8M under your rookie contract.
As the #15 pick you would earn $5M.
You would essentially be giving up $5M to play for your hometown school. Beyond that you would be taking a huge risk on sticking with the team that drafted you. Go back and look at the rate of top-15 draft picks signing 2nd contracts and players outside the top-15. Huge risks all around. If you are a top-5 caliber player you would be a fool to risk that by playing for the hometown school....... unless that hometown school is Duke, UK, UNC, Kansas, Arizona, or UCLA.
Will you please show up Saturday night around 10:45? I would love to see how you explain getting beat by around 20-30 points.
Looks like some development going on to me. ARK fans just really envious and needs excuses to help them sleep at night. I am curious how many players out of Ark has been developed even after 2,3,4 years and went in to NBA rosters? I can think of 1 Portis? What school has the most players in NBA? I know Kentucky has 20 plus foes Duke,UNC,KU, or whoever even have as many as UK? To say Cal doesn't make his players better is like saying its never sunning in Florida during the summer.
Zero point zero chance these snowflakes show up after tomorrows game. They're only here to talk themselves up to the reaming they're about to receive.
"I can do this, I can do this, I can do this......oh no."
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Someone should refresh that thread when Monk becomes a max contract NBA star in a few years. Make them vomit up their indignation and taste it all over again.
A player does not have to be a 2-3* to develop. Though we get 4-5* talent (because Cal is a great recruiter), Cal still does a great job of taking a player and honing certain skills (different ones depending on the player) that will give them the best chance at success. As the other guy said, Towns had little back to the basket game. Cal sharpened that for him to make him more well-rounded. Liggins had the tools to be a great defensive player. Cal saw that was his best shot at making it in the NBA so he honed those skills. A few years down the road, he is still in the league and only playing because...defense. I could go through more. The thing is about your argument...Cal is such a good recruiter at UK that you don't get much chance to see him develop 2-3* players because he just doesn't have 2-3* players to develop.
Cal's UMass team was the only team anywhere close to the 1996 UK team that is arguably the best college team ever. That does not = Sweet 16
The truth is that it doesn't matter whether we think Cal and his staff (especially Kenny Payne) develop their players or if Arkansas fans (and others) think he doesn't. Our former players believe that they were well-developed and well-prepared to be an NBA player by coming here and playing for them. And even more importantly, high school recruits and their families believe that they can best be developed and prepared here at UK by Cal and his staff... and so does the NBA.
I guess I just think differently. $5M is still a lot of money to me, and it would suck being tied to a random university for the rest of my life because they are good at basketball instead of being accepted back home where I'm from. If I had enough confidence in myself to be a great NBA player I wouldn't worry about my rookie contract anyways because if I'm good enough that will take care of itself. Players used to not even need colleges at all to develop until they were forced to.
If people don't accept you at home because you made the better life decision for yourself...then they are just a bunch of losers and I'd not want to be associated with those types anyways.
You know a guy who played at Lexington high school would be much more well received if he went to UK than Indiana even if UK was down. It's like that everywhere. It's why former D1 players for their state's flagship school have more opportunities with jobs than the average person even if they have similar credentials.
Don't have any raw numbers to back this up, but I would guess a very small percentage of professional athletes end up living back home in the small towns they grew up in. I would think most either end up settling in the cities where they played professionally or back in the area where they experienced stardom as a college athlete (or often both for the really successful guys with multiple homes). Lexington is littered with former UK players (that originally came here from all over the country) living off of their status as a former UK basketball player.
Although it seems Monk often makes it a point to acknowledge his roots with shoutouts to "The Woods" during interviews, etc., it may not be his long-term dream to live out his post-playing days in Arkansas. Just a thought.
Or like maybe if the #1 running back in the country played at a high school 20 minutes from Lexington, and chose to play for Alabama instead of Kentucky?
And does your community get as excited for him to make appearances as they do for a guy like Tim Couch? I doubt Harris will be working for Kentucky Sports Radio or sponsor a high school football tournament in Kentucky when he is done playing. You can't always root for players that play for teams you compete against or there would be no such thing as fandom.
I don't think that really matters. Why would Harris want to make appearances in Kentucky or work for KSR? He's not limited to working in Kentucky after his football career is over. He will be able to get a job anywhere in Alabama doing pretty much anything he wants.
Nobody has to stay in their community when the grow up. I grew up in Kentucky and have relocated to Utah and I am perfectly happy here. This fixation with staying loyal to where you grew up is bizarre. And anyone who would risk a multi-million dollar career based on some fictitious loyalty to a town is a fool.
And that's why his community is upset with him, because he chose to leave instead of help them out when we get a player like him once in a lifetime. Like LeBron did to Cleveland before coming back. I'm not really sure why that surprises so many people. He goes to Kentucky to get more exposure and wins but the reason we aren't winning more and getting more exposure is partly because of him and other players who leave. Hell there could be 3 Arkansans on the all-SEC teams at the end of the year lol. No one is forcing them to come here but if they don't support us why should we support them?
If his community is upset with him for seeking out a better opportunity, then they weren't really on his side in the first place. It's childish and stupid.
The Lebron comparison is idiotic too. Lebron was deciding between which max-level NBA contract he wanted. Sure he left some money on the table, but he is probably the one athlete where that's really not going to impact him much due to his other marketing and business interests. HS kids are risking a lot if they decide to stay home, when they have an option of going to an elite university.
This guy is a perfect example of realizing the importance of going with a top program. He left Ft. Knox (?), KY to play for 'Bama. He turned down an offer from UK. He could have possibly turned our program around . . . or it could have swallowed him whole, and shat him the same way. Was it the best decision? I'd say he has no complaints, and I think most people from KY consider him a native son.
Excellent point. Also, this guy also never played for Kentucky, yet we decorate basically everything to honor him.This guy is a perfect example of realizing the importance of going with a top program. He left Ft. Knox (?), KY to play for 'Bama. He turned down an offer from UK. Was it the best decision? I'd say he has no complaints, and I think most people from KY consider him a native son.
You do realize he has a better winning percentage than any other Div I coach and he's doing it with FRESHMEN,talented or not nobody else can do that with as much success ,pretty good for an "Average" Game Coach.People like you only mimic the same crap all the haters say,but there is no proof of it and plenty of evidence to the contrary.
Duh,it's not about lack of support,it's about Childish hate and jealousy spewed by Arkansas fans.Grow up and quit pouting because you don't get your way.