Modern offense

megablue

Heisman
Oct 2, 2012
15,566
15,669
113
Sure, he wanted Hopkins gone. I doubt if he wanted Brooks out. If he wanted Hopkins to stay, he would have treated him better. There was zero excuse for Hopkins not getting more playing time. SOS creates an environment that is easy to blame the players for not getting more playing time or not winning. However, I am willing to bet that there isn't another team in college basketball that leave 5-star athletes wasting away on the bench like what happens consistently at UK.
Thanks for the reply. I have no idea what Hopkins' attitude was like last year, so I cannot comment. All I see are the games, but having coached for over twenty (20) years, I know attitude is something that can easily keep a player in the doghouse, especially for a coach with a well-dictated and enforced philosophy. To me, being in the huddle, in the locker room, around the team, etc... is the only way I could every really know enough about the team, personnel, what's expected of them, individual attitudes, etc... to make any informed statements about playing time. I can only defer to a staff that probably spends 80-100 hours a week during the season working with and talking about the team, both individually and collectively, trying to win and also be fair to every player at the same time. My two cents ...
 

LmdCat

Heisman
Jan 8, 2006
23,627
18,894
0
Thanks for the reply. I have no idea what Hopkins' attitude was like last year, so I cannot comment. All I see are the games, but having coached for over twenty (20) years, I know attitude is something that can easily keep a player in the doghouse, especially for a coach with a well-dictated and enforced philosophy. To me, being in the huddle, in the locker room, around the team, etc... is the only way I could every really know enough about the team, personnel, what's expected of them, individual attitudes, etc... to make any informed statements about playing time. I can only defer to a staff that probably spends 80-100 hours a week during the season working with and talking about the team, both individually and collectively, trying to win and also be fair to every player at the same time. My two cents ...
Do you really believe that anyone other than SOS decides who plays? His staff appears afraid to say anything to him during games. I recalled how he yelled at his staff during the Arkansas game because he got a warning to stay off the court. Attitude is a two-way street and SOS needs his adjusted. I have been coaching for about 20 years too. One of the things that I quickly learned, I had to learn how to effectively communicate with each of the players on my team to maximize their contribution to the team. The drill sergeant approach is becoming less effective every day. You have to know how to balance the carrot and the stick.
 

ukcatz12

Heisman
Mar 27, 2009
5,199
12,325
0
You definitely have to have a top 10 or 15 defense, but I'll point to UT again, they have an elite defense, but they aren't going anywhere, they can't score enough. Heck, when you get swept by this UK team and you have an elite defense, you suck offensively.
Because Tennessee's offense just isn't good. They're 50th in efficiency. We're 14th. There's a difference between having a non-elite but very good offense, which we have, and having an average at best offense, which UT has. Our offense is 100% good enough to make the Final Four.
 

CatPatrick13

All-Conference
Sep 17, 2015
3,201
4,367
113
  • Our offensive production numbers for those who think our offense is not a problem.(not saying our defense isn’t an issue as well)
  • 93rd
    45.9 FG%
  • 3-point %
    111th
    35.4 3P%
  • Points Scored
    112th
    2402 Pts
 

ukcatz12

Heisman
Mar 27, 2009
5,199
12,325
0
  • Our offensive production numbers for those who think our offense is not a problem.(not saying our defense isn’t an issue as well)
  • 93rd
    45.9 FG%
  • 3-point %
    111th
    35.4 3P%
  • Points Scored
    112th
    2402 Pts
Raw stats tell you nothing. You need to adjust for competition, which efficiency numbers do. Every efficiency metric says we have a top 15 or so offense.
 

megablue

Heisman
Oct 2, 2012
15,566
15,669
113
Do you really believe that anyone other than SOS decides who plays? His staff appears afraid to say anything to him during games. I recalled how he yelled at his staff during the Arkansas game because he got a warning to stay off the court. Attitude is a two-way street and SOS needs his adjusted. I have been coaching for about 20 years too. One of the things that I quickly learned, I had to learn how to effectively communicate with each of the players on my team to maximize their contribution to the team. The drill sergeant approach is becoming less effective every day. You have to know how to balance the carrot and the stick.
Do you really believe that anyone other than SOS decides who plays? His staff appears afraid to say anything to him during games. I recalled how he yelled at his staff during the Arkansas game because he got a warning to stay off the court. Attitude is a two-way street and SOS needs his adjusted. I have been coaching for about 20 years too. One of the things that I quickly learned, I had to learn how to effectively communicate with each of the players on my team to maximize their contribution to the team. The drill sergeant approach is becoming less effective every day. You have to know how to balance the carrot and the stick.
I have no respect whatsoever for any coach who has team rules and objectives that are not fairly and equitably enforced across the board. I am not part of the team and am not there to witness what goes on in that regard. To me, the allocation of in-game playing time was, by far, the most difficult part of coaching. I agree, the decision is Cal’s as head coach, but choose to believe he gets input from staff during meetings. Of course, I do not know. I cannot imagine why coaches would come to be part of a staff if they weren’t involved and their opinions were not considered. I know I sure wouldn’t want to be an assistant, if I didn’t feel involved.
Thanks for the exchanges. Good Luck to your AAU teams.
 

LmdCat

Heisman
Jan 8, 2006
23,627
18,894
0
I have no respect whatsoever for any coach who has team rules and objectives that are not fairly and equitably enforced across the board. I am not part of the team and am not there to witness what goes on in that regard. To me, the allocation of in-game playing time was, by far, the most difficult part of coaching. I agree, the decision is Cal’s as head coach, but choose to believe he gets input from staff during meetings. Of course, I do not know. I cannot imagine why coaches would come to be part of a staff if they weren’t involved and their opinions were not considered. I know I sure wouldn’t want to be an assistant, if I didn’t feel involved.
Thanks for the exchanges. Good Luck to your AAU teams.
Enjoyed chatting with you and good luck with your coaching too.
 
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mcnicKY91

All-Conference
Aug 6, 2021
2,106
3,027
0
You’re never going to shut that kind of offense down. Our defense is bad, but our offense and our free throw shooting let us down.

I don't care how good your defense is, a spread offense is going to score. Heck, we even outrebounded them by more that 20 and still lost.
Looks like TAMU has had no issues slowing down that offense. If UK had half the intensity defensively that TAMU plays with, the Cats would have half the losses they have at the moment.
 

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
50,591
70,827
113
Your statement about top-tier talent is spot on.
It takes a certain level of talent to run a quality spread offense. That is why everybody doesn't run it.
It takes quality big men to run a quality post offense. That is why the last BIG TEN team to win was Michigan State in 2000. The BIG TEN style, generally, does not feature the quicker players in spread offenses.

Regards recruiting, one thing that never seems to be mentioned is the character quality of the individuals' being recruited, in addition to their playing ability and fit into a particular style. Many high-level players are eliminated from many recruiting boards because of wanting to avoid potential off-the-court issues, ego issues and/or problems in the locker room. All coaches want good kids that can really play, of course, but some will accept at-risk (for lack of a better term) kids before others will. Many coaches probably consider the discussions with guidance counselors, teachers, high-school coaches, principals, etc.. to be more important than what they see of kids at the AAU tournaments. Parents can be a big problem, as well, of course. In this regard, I believe there is an art that some coaches seem to have in determining best fits for their programs, trying to win at a high level, but eliminating potential problems. Recruiting and winning is a tough gig, but coaches get paid big $$$ to do it !!
It always comes down to talent and players that fit the best.

But here's the thing, there is NBA potential type talent and there is developed college player type talent.

Look at the teams winning titles, they're 3 and 4 star kids that have been developed through the program and sometimes, a 5* player is mixed in.

Both Villanova title winning teams, UVA 2019, uNC 2017, Baylor 21, KU 22 and even duke 2015, were all built with veteran kids with the exception of 2015 duke and one of the Nova teams, they had couple good 5* pieces that fit.

Cal is sticking with this one and done thing and it's just not going to work, not in todays game.

Between the players and their handlers, NIL and the draft, these kids aren't all that invested in the program and they don't hang around long enough to develop anyway.

I think you can bring in a couple 5* kids if they're the right fit, but you can't just star gaze, cast a wide net and take whatever fish fall into your net. If that's your plan, you're top priority isn’t winning college titles, it's all about padding your draft pick stats.
 
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kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
50,591
70,827
113
Remember the Pitino system? Full court pressing style defense will wear down good three point shooting teams. Shots that fell in the first half miss in the second half. But you need depth to play that style. And Calipari does not fill all his roster spots because, and he said this recently on a post game show after a win, that would be two more guys who would not get to play. And he does not want to hurt more feelings!
Yeah, West Virginia tried that for a while (Press Virginia), but it’s a gimmick anymore. It worked in the 90's, but it gives up too many easy layups and dunks in todays game.
 
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kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
50,591
70,827
113
Looks like TAMU has had no issues slowing down that offense. If UK had half the intensity defensively that TAMU plays with, the Cats would have half the losses they have at the moment.
You shot your wad a little early there bub. Texas A & M held Vandy to a whole 5 points less than we did.

But did you happen to see how many pounts aTm scored? Yeah, damn near 90. Vanderbilt ran into a buzz saw.
 

gojvc

All-American
Feb 5, 2005
28,744
7,273
0
Offense was NOT the issue tonight.

We couldn't guard a soul, and Cal refuses to go Zone.

Makes ZERO sense.
Vanderbilt averaged 1.168 points per possession last night. Only two teams in America have averaged more than that for the season. It’s not even debatable that the defense was the biggest problem last night. 73 points should have been enough to win that game.
 

rivercatinfl

All-Conference
Nov 21, 2012
1,992
1,896
97
You can’t keep recruiting size and ignore skill
We got one scorer on the team
He’s a terrible judge of talent anymore and building a roster
Yeah. And why would we want that Perry kid from KY too. Not a freak athlete. All he can do is score!! Who needs him.
 

gojvc

All-American
Feb 5, 2005
28,744
7,273
0
You’re never going to shut that kind of offense down. Our defense is bad, but our offense and our free throw shooting let us down.
Vanderbilt is 91st in the nation in offensive efficiency. A lot of teams have been shutting down that kind of offense. Unfortunately, our defense was awful.
 

KyCatFan1

Heisman
May 6, 2002
30,867
31,594
113
I looked at the stats from our Vandy game and their game today. There's a lot of similarities but the biggest difference is A&M matched Vandy's 3 point shooting. We take a lot of bad 3's and when we are open we tend to struggle to hit them. Shooting has and will always be Cal's problem. Other teams get wiiiiiiiide open 3's against us while we tend to force a lot of ours. Plus our shooters always have some kind of mental issue with shooting. Probably from some maniac screaming at them all game.
 
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kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
50,591
70,827
113
Vanderbilt is 91st in the nation in offensive efficiency. A lot of teams have been shutting down that kind of offense. Unfortunately, our defense was awful.
Vanderbilt hit some crazy threes, you have to account for that.

They scored 75 today on A&M, scored 80 on us.

A&M scored 87, they scored easily and often, we struggled to get anything.

Offense was the issue.
 
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mcnicKY91

All-Conference
Aug 6, 2021
2,106
3,027
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You shot your wad a little early there bub. Texas A & M held Vandy to a whole 5 points less than we did.

But did you happen to see how many pounts aTm scored? Yeah, damn near 90. Vanderbilt ran into a buzz saw.
You must have not watched the same game. A&M shut them down defensively in the first half...Vandy couldn't do anything. They then built a 30 pt lead and clearly took their foot off the gas defensively in the second half. Intensity was gone...which is human nature when you build a 30 pt lead, largely because of your defense.

Not sure why you feel the need to argue this modern offense nonsense.

With where UK rates offensively and defensively right now, if I was given the choice, I would pick our offensive efficiency to stay the same, and our defensive efficiency to be top 5...rather than the opposite, which would be to keep our defensive efficiency where it is, and move our offensive efficiency to top 5. Which would you pick?
 
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fatguy87

All-American
Oct 8, 2004
13,764
9,093
0
Our offense this season has been a problem, but not nearly as big of one as our defense.

There are probably more immediate fixes that could be implemented to get points on defense, but we most definitely leave some off the board on offense through bad shot quality.

Also, we certainly can spread the floor with Oscar. We need to play the four other players on the court as wings and spread the floor by being intentional about generating 3’s.
 
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kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
50,591
70,827
113
You must have not watched the same game. A&M shut them down defensively in the first half...Vandy couldn't do anything. They then built a 30 pt lead and clearly took their foot off the gas defensively in the second half. Intensity was gone...which is human nature when you build a 30 pt lead, largely because of your defense.

Not sure why you feel the need to argue this modern offense nonsense.

With where UK rates offensively and defensively right now, if I was given the choice, I would pick our offensive efficiency to stay the same, and our defensive efficiency to be top 5...rather than the opposite, which would be to keep our defensive efficiency where it is, and move our offensive efficiency to top 5. Which would you pick?
It never got to 30 and A&M never let off the gas, yes, you definitely watched a different game than I did.
 
Apr 13, 2002
44,001
97,152
0
The team in black had one and made us look stupid for most of this game.

Their defense fed off their offense.

We’re still trying dumb post up offense and taking jump shots… bad ones. Why even go with a post offense if you can’t beat a smaller team with it?

An efficient offense will beat a goid defense every time. You have to score, maybe one of these days Cal and his fans will realize this.

Can't wait until Cal turns Aaron Bradshaw into a back to the basket center next year like he did to Skal.

Until you have a defensive approach that stops a team from shooting about 80%, your offense doesn't matter.

How'd that vandy offense do today? It wasn't their offense. It was our piss poor defense
 

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
50,591
70,827
113
Until you have a defensive approach that stops a team from shooting about 80%, your offense doesn't matter.

How'd that vandy offense do today? It wasn't their offense. It was our piss poor defense
Vandy had open threes against aTm, they didn't hit them, they hit against us.
Had we made free throws and used our size advantage in the paint, we would have overcome that.
There will be times when teams catch fire against you, I don't care how good your defense is, just ask UT, Auburn and Arkansas. Ask Kansas, UT and uNC last year.
 
Apr 13, 2002
44,001
97,152
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Vandy had open threes against aTm, they didn't hit them, they hit against us.
Had we made free throws and used our size advantage in the paint, we would have overcome that.
There will be times when teams catch fire against you, I don't care how good your defense is, just ask UT, Auburn and Arkansas. Ask Kansas, UT and uNC last year.

There is for sure a ky effect. We all know that. It wasn't even just the perimeter shooting that killed us. It was the baskets in the paint. Granted they were tough shots too but they got there without much problem.

Even with the ky effect, the better you are defensively the less lucky the other team gets. Funny how that works
 
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kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
50,591
70,827
113
There is for sure a ky effect. We all know that. It wasn't even just the perimeter shooting that killed us. It was the baskets in the paint. Granted they were tough shots too but they got there without much problem.

Even with the ky effect, the better you are defensively the less lucky the other team gets. Funny how that works
I said it in a different thread, our defensive issues are more of a this year type issue, the offense is systemic. It’s the same offense he runs no matter who his personnel is and it's extremely limited and easy to guard.

When you play 5 out, you have to single cover 5 guys that can take you off the bounce, good luck with that.

Right now, if you take Oscar out, you put UK into a tailspin and we don't have guards that are very good at taking anyone off the bounce.

Next year, he will have 7' 215lb Bradshaw at the 5, kid is a beanpole, how much do you want to bet that kid will be playing with his back to the basket? That team should be tailor made to run a spread offense, but Cal won't do that.
 

TriCountyCAT

All-American
Dec 5, 2010
4,366
6,319
43
I honestly don’t care as much about the offensive when the other team is shooting layup and wide open 3s the whole game.
 

mcnicKY91

All-Conference
Aug 6, 2021
2,106
3,027
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It never got to 30 and A&M never let off the gas, yes, you definitely watched a different game than I did.
Dude, A&M was up 52-25 in the second half...you really want to argue a 3 pt difference from what I said?

A&M stopped playing with the defensive intensity they did in the first half, which is what any team would do with that type of lead. I find this to be a really strange hill for you to die on.

Also, you never addressed my question, which was the main part of the post. Would you rather our defense efficiency stay where it's at and move to top 5 in offensive efficiency, or would you rather our offensive efficiency stay where it's at and move to top 5 in defensive efficiency?

I know what 99.9% of UK fans and college basketball analysts would pick...I have a feeling you are in the 0.1% crowd.
 

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
50,591
70,827
113
Dude, A&M was up 52-25 in the second half...you really want to argue a 3 pt difference from what I said?

A&M stopped playing with the defensive intensity they did in the first half, which is what any team would do with that type of lead. I find this to be a really strange hill for you to die on.

Also, you never addressed my question, which was the main part of the post. Would you rather our defense efficiency stay where it's at and move to top 5 in offensive efficiency, or would you rather our offensive efficiency stay where it's at and move to top 5 in defensive efficiency?

I know what 99.9% of UK fans and college basketball analysts would pick...I have a feeling you are in the 0.1% crowd.
Dude, this season is done. The defense isn't going to get fixed, you have to take the good with the bad.

We blew out Auburn, because we hit shots. We blew out KU, uNC and UT last year, because we hit shots and ran them into the ground. But look what happened the next two times we played UT. We lost.

We lost to Saint Peters, because we couldn’t score.

Now, like I said, this season is done, this team isn't going to make the sweet 16. Is what it is. The defense is a personnel issue, but the offense is an every year issue.

Cal knows one offense and one defense. The defense can work most times, but the offense is a struggle, always has been and now in 2023, it is extremely outdated and everything seems forced.

Great players can make these systems work, but how often does AD and MKG come along?