MLB is looking like a no go, WTF.

[fishwater99]

After Saturday’s developments, in which [URL="https://twitter.com/MLBPA_News/status/1271944664711680002"]the MLBPA rejected the latest proposal from the league and released a statement telling the commissioner the players are ready to get back to work and to set a schedule, Rob Manfred now says he is “not confident” that there will be a 2020 season, adding that, “I can’t tell you I’m 100% certain that’s going to happen,” The latter is especially noteworthy, as it comes five days after Manfred exclaimed that, “We will play Major League Baseball this year” and saying he is 100% sure of that while speaking at the 2020 MLB Draft.
Manfred backtracking from his Wednesday remarks was met with swift and unified derision from the Player’s Association. In a statement released mere hours after the latest quotes from the commissioner, the Association said that, “Players are disgusted that after Rob Manfred unequivocally told Players and fans there would ‘100%’ be a 2020 season, he has decided to go back on his word and is now threatening to cancel the entire season.”


https://www.amazinavenue.com/2020/6/16/21292849/mets-mlb-mlbpa-2020-season-negotiations-rob-manfred-tony-clark-baseball[/URL]

The commissioner can call a season today, but he is listening to going along with the owners.
The owners don't want a season without fans because they will lose money.

 

[aTotal360]

Lonnie Tinkle > Rob Manfred

 

[Go Budaw]

After Saturday’s developments, in which the MLBPA rejected the latest proposal from the league and released a statement telling the commissioner the players are ready to get back to work and to set a schedule, Rob Manfred now says he is “not confident” that there will be a 2020 season, adding that, “I can’t tell you I’m 100% certain that’s going to happen,” The latter is especially noteworthy, as it comes five days after Manfred exclaimed that, “We will play Major League Baseball this year” and saying he is 100% sure of that while speaking at the 2020 MLB Draft.
Manfred backtracking from his Wednesday remarks was met with swift and unified derision from the Player’s Association. In a statement released mere hours after the latest quotes from the commissioner, the Association said that, “Players are disgusted that after Rob Manfred unequivocally told Players and fans there would ‘100%’ be a 2020 season, he has decided to go back on his word and is now threatening to cancel the entire season.”


https://www.amazinavenue.com/2020/6...-negotiations-rob-manfred-tony-clark-baseball

The commissioner can call a season today, but he is listening to going along with the owners.
The owners don't want a season without fans because they will lose money.

The owners already gave their blessing to a 50-game season with full pro rata. This is beyond stupid, and totally the fault of the owners if they go back on their own proposal yet aGAIN.

 

[msstate7]

Here's the hold up now...

https://www.latimes.com/sports/stor...tart-season-unless-players-waive-legal-claims

 

[Shamoan]

this country needs baseball to step up and be a hero....they will swing and miss no doubt.

 

[MarkDallas]

Why had been been so disfunctional for the last 30 years? Is it the rise of football as the #1 sport?

 

[fishwater99]

The owners already gave their blessing to a 50-game season with full pro rata. This is beyond stupid, and totally the fault of the owners if they go back on their own proposal yet aGAIN.

Not what they are saying now, is there a written agreement from March?

"The owners have contended that, due to the loss of revenue resulting from no fans being allowed at ballparks, they cannot pay the full amount, and they believe the March agreement made it clear that 100% pro rata only applied if gate profits were to be factored in."

 

[T-TownDawgg]

In what is essentially wartime conditions, I say crank Women's Baseball back up Geena Davis and Madonna style. Short skirts mandatory. Remember to tip your team's players.

17 these greedy mother17ers

 

[EagleDawg97]

As we continue to slide further and further from being America’s Pastime. MLB is a shell of what it was in the late 80’s.

 

[Hankp22]

this sucks.

i hate 2020.

 

[L4Dawg]

They are starting to remind me why I quit watching after the strike years ago. I had just started back in the last two years. Oh well, I didn't miss it during those years, I won't miss it this time either.

 

[EagleDawg97]

The players will lose this battle of public perception. May not be fair, but that’s what’s going to happen.

 

[patdog]

So, we're going to have soccer, basketball, hockey and football this year, but the most socially distanced sport there is can't find a way to play. That's not gonna cause any fan resentment or erode the fanbase at all. **

 

[BlueRidgeMtns]

The MLB needs to get off their knees and stop blowing the summer.

 

[57stratdawg]

It is, but cancelling the probably puts them in the same position. Apparently the March agreement gave the Commish the power to set a season. However, certain conditions had to be considered from both sides: players safety, financial revenues, etc. The owners are concerned that cancelling the season will likely lead to a grievance, because they’ve already made multiple proposals. It will be difficult to say that you felt comfortable playing a 50 game season on 6/5 only to say circumstances changed considerably to cancel the season later in June.

 

[Go Budaw]

Here's the hold up now...

https://www.latimes.com/sports/stor...tart-season-unless-players-waive-legal-claims

Translation #1: MLB owners know they have outright sabotaged these negotiations from the very beginning starting with their deliberate omissions from the March 26th agreement, and want to cover their *** by robbing the players of very basic CBA rights that they have before they even agree to a season length that they already proposed themselves in the first place, with no such restrictions.

Translation #2: MLB ownership, as a complete collective, are a bunch of half-stepping bitches.

 

[msstate7]

Translation #1: MLB owners know they have outright sabotaged these negotiations from the very beginning starting with their deliberate omissions from the March 26th agreement, and want to cover their *** by robbing the players of very basic CBA rights that they have before they even agree to a season length that they already proposed themselves with no such restrictions.

Translation #2: MLB ownership, as a complete collective, are a bunch of half-stepping bitches.

I think it's abundantly clear at this point that the owners feel playing is not a good financial plan.

 

[fishwater99]

I think it's abundantly clear at this point that the owners feel playing is not a good financial plan.

If they play without fans in the stands and pay players their full prorated salaries, each owner will at least a million for every game played.

 

[Irondawg]

But threatening to sue owners over grievances isn’t going to move the needle forward either. Neither side is coming out a winner here.

 

[CoolDawg]

Looks like the players and the owners are in a circular firing squad and I for one don't care. On the one hand you have rich, prima donna, egotistical owners and on the other hand you have rich, prima donna, egotistical players.

 

[Go Budaw]

If they play without fans in the stands and pay players their full prorated salaries, each owner will at least a million for every game played.

So? Numerous enterprises (both public and private) lose millions to the bottom line every single year in this country, yet keep operating for both positive exposure and long term prosperity. Some even lose millions for the first several years of their existence before they ever turn a profit (Tesla, anyone?).

By contrast, MLB franchises have been pulling in profit figures that average in the 8 to 9 digits per year for several years now, and that’s money that goes directly to the owners. It stands to reason that owners could have easily had a rainy day fund to cover expenses in an event such as this just by putting away 10% of said profits each year for the past 10 years, or 5% per year for 20 years, or whatever. But alas, they burned through it or just pocketed it wrecklessly, like there would never be another terrorist attack, pandemic, hurricane, or whatever that would threaten their viability. Hell, even without any of that, I imagine it wasn’t off the table for the Astros to get a one-year death penalty from MLB after the **** they pulled. They were also extremely lazy and shortsighted when negotiating TV deals and license agreements, which further exacerbated the problem at hand. Now, they simply don’t want to lie in the bed they made themselves, even though the long term future of their sport is at stake.

 

[msstate7]

Looks like the players and the owners are in a circular firing squad and I for one don't care. On the one hand you have rich, prima donna, egotistical owners and on the other hand you have rich,prima donna, egotistical players.

Yep.

 

[msstate7]

Why take the loss to play and risk being sued?

 

[Go Budaw]

Why take the loss to play and risk being sued?

Its not about getting sued, its about the union filing a grievance to provide financial compensation to players based on the owners negotiating in bad faith. That would not be an issue at all if the owners hadn’t, you know, negotiated in bad faith. They never had any intention at all at paying anything close to full pro rata, but nevertheless they agreed to do so on March 26th under the very vague criteria that “financial considerations allow for it.” They always wanted to bait and switch to put the onus on the players instead of themselves, both to delay the proceedings and shorten any potential season by default, and try to win the PR battle against the players. It’s going to backfire on them big time....if not from grievances this year it will happen when the CBA runs out after 2021.

 

[Drebin]

The players will lose this battle of public perception. May not be fair, but that’s what’s going to happen.

I dunno. The media are doing a great job of carrying water for them.

I heard an interview with Manfred where they're frustrated that the players are publicly demanding that MLB sets a schedule and gets to work, but then are planning on filing grievances against the owners once it starts.

There's more than enough blame for everyone to go around here. These are extenuating circumstances during unprecedented times. Everyone should make concessions on both sides for the good of the sport and the fans.

 

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

They are starting to remind me why I quit watching after the strike years ago. I had just started back in the last two years. Oh well, I didn't miss it during those years, I won't miss it this time either.

Exactly. Growing up in the Good Old 1980s, we had ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, and PBS affiliates and Superstation TBS (HBO was scrambled since it cost almost twice as much as basic cable). TBS carried ~ 95% of the Braves games, so watching baseball in the summer was fairly common and, since they were awful much of those years, their games didn’t spill into the fall. After the strike season, people realized there was other things to do and IIRC viewership plummeted. I know I have watched only a handful of MLB games on television since then.

MLB has a chance to get their ratings back since we’ve had essentially no sports for three months.

 

[1msucub]

Looks like the players and the owners are in a circular firing squad and I for one don't care. On the one hand you have rich, prima donna, egotistical owners and on the other hand you have rich, prima donna, egotistical players.

You misspelled pre-madonna. C’mon, mane.

You right, tho.

 

[patdog]

Plenty of blame to go around. But for the owners to sign an agreement and then try to change the terms after the fact is pretty inexcusable. If they wanted to make it contingent on fans in the stands, when they knew damn well there probably wouldn't be, they should have incorporated that language into the agreement. Play 82 games at the full pro-rated salary like they agreed to in March. End of story.

 

[msstate7]

Plenty of blame to go around. But for the owners to sign an agreement and then try to change the terms after the fact is pretty inexcusable. If they wanted to make it contingent on fans in the stands, when they knew damn well there probably wouldn't be, they should have incorporated that language into the agreement. Play 82 games at the full pro-rated salary like they agreed to in March. End of story.

"... In their March agreement, the sides vowed to “work in good faith to as soon as is practicable to commence, play, and complete the fullest 2020 championship season and post-season that is economically feasible, consistent with” a series of provisions.

Absent Manfred's consent, the agreement said, the season would not begin unless there were no travel restrictions in the U.S. and Canada impacting play, no restrictions on mass gatherings at all 30 regular-season ballparks and no health or safety risks in playing in front of fans at the regular stadiums. But it also provided that the sides “will discuss in good faith the economic feasibility of playing games in the absence of spectators or at appropriate substitute neutral sites.”

MLB told the union it would lose an additional $640,000 for each regular-season game played with no gate revenue and does not want to extend the regular season past Sept. 27 because it fears a second wave of the coronavirus could endanger the postseason, when $787 million of broadcast revenue is earned...."

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/n...manfred-says-baseball-season-jeopardy-1298607

 

[StillTbonewannabe]

Trevor Baur wrote up what is happening on Twitter. Manfred is basically dragging his feet until they can only play the amount of games that they wanted. Players wanted 70-80 games but owners want around 50-60. Manfred is stalling until they only have time to play 50-60.

 

[paindonthurt_]

Are you sure abt this? Are more than half the teams making $10,000,000 a year in profit?

And if they are is $10,000,000 a lot of money in profit when you paid $800,000,000 or more for the team?

Lot of small market owners not raking in big profits compared to the investment which matters.

The average player is making $4.38 million with very little risk. 7 figures with no risk compared to 8 figures with lots of risk.

Seems pretty simple to me. If not having fans is going to cost the owners some money, it should cost the players some money too.

 

[Drebin]

Plenty of blame to go around. But for the owners to sign an agreement and then try to change the terms after the fact is pretty inexcusable. If they wanted to make it contingent on fans in the stands, when they knew damn well there probably wouldn't be, they should have incorporated that language into the agreement. Play 82 games at the full pro-rated salary like they agreed to in March. End of story.

You make it sound like the circumstances now are the same as they were in March when the initial agreement was signed. Back then, nobody was sure if they could play closer to a full season or not. Nobody was sure if there would be fans at the games at some point. There was language in that agreement that stated circumstances on the ground may require a review of terms. Everyone should make concessions and share the burden equally here. There's a lot of ignorance coming from folks who think the owners are the bad guys in this, like they can just afford to take billion dollar hits. Some of them can, but some of them can't.

And there's more to the story than playing 82 games at a prorated salary.

 

[Go Budaw]

Are you sure abt this? Are more than half the teams making $10,000,000 a year in profit?

And if they are is $10,000,000 a lot of money in profit when you paid $800,000,000 or more for the team?

Lot of small market owners not raking in big profits compared to the investment which matters.

The average player is making $4.38 million with very little risk. 7 figures with no risk compared to 8 figures with lots of risk.

Seems pretty simple to me. If not having fans is going to cost the owners some money, it should cost the players some money too.

Yes, I’m pretty sure every team clears way, way more than $10,000,000. However, your questions raise a concern that have been perhaps the biggest sticking point throughout these entire negotiations, and that is that owners don’t want the players to know how much they are really making, and have refused to open their books to share that info in spite of many requests. Seems that would be the easiest way to make their case if they had one, no?

The one notable exception to this is the Atlanta Braves, who are owned by a publicly traded company (Liberty Media), and therefore have to reveal all of their financials for shareholders. Two years ago, the Braves cleared about $95 million in profit. Checking that the Braves are the 12th most valuable MLB franchise according to Forbes (which is largely based on market size / profitability), it can be inferred that the $95 million is a middle of the road number for MLB. It’s pretty likely that the big market teams (Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Cubs, etc.) are probably up there in the ballpark of $150 million or more. So, in a vacuum, you can start making serious money in 8-10 years after making an $800,000,000 investment even if the valuation of the team doesn’t change at all. Of course, it’s not a vacuum, and the valuations of MLB teams go up every single year. Some franchises have doubled in value in just the past 10-15 years. And that’s the real reason people throw insane sums of money at purchasing MLB teams.

As to your comment about small market owners, yes they will clear less profit, but they also have much smaller payrolls too, meaning the pro rata will also hit them less. Remember that there is still no salary cap in MLB, so you have payrolls that are proportional to market size and profit.

 

[engie]

"I've made $100 million/yr forever. How dare someone ask me to break even in an extraordinary season?" Even if it WOULD HAVE simply been an investment in the future growth of the game.

MLB cutting off their noses to spite their faces. 17 em. I was interested as hell in this in May -- when we should have been playing regular season games now for 3 weeks to absolutely massive TV audiences, many of which might have stuck around. Instead, they are going to push this to August to start. At which point, I and everyone else will.not.give.a.17. It doesn't 17ing matter whose fault it is -- it will damage them all. They will have literally every other sport compacted with only the greatest events in those sports like never before by then.