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Miller

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PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
13,304
12,623
78
Didn’t play enough yesterday in my opinion. I’ve been hard on him before, but he was the only bench option worth a lick yesterday. In 11 minutes of action, he made a nice basket, grabbed 4 boards, had an assist and didn’t turn the ball over. Another driving lay up was in and out. His one bad shot was a put back on an offensive board in traffic where he should’ve kicked it out. I saw a lot of improvement and promise from him.

If Caleb and Paul can’t go, I hope to see more of him vs. Rider.
 
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ColonelRutgers

All-American
Dec 15, 2003
7,103
9,293
113
If we’re playing Miller meaningful minutes we’re in deep trouble. This narrative that he’s some kind of lock down defender is not something evidenced in games and he’s simply a liability as a distributor and shooter on offense. Since Simpson was such a deer in the headlights at times against Temple and with no Caleb and Paul there were no other options but to play Miller.
 
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BillyC80

Heisman
Oct 23, 2006
17,101
15,517
72
Gotta give the kid some props. Lock down or not, he gives tremendous effort on D and always has the toughest assignment.

He has surprising hops as evidenced on those rebounds. Yesterday on offense he came out of his shell a little, which was good to see. His jumper looked smooth and solid form-wise. He can take it to the hole with a decent handle and good quickness.

His stats were pretty good for a guy who gets spot floor time. Hard to criticize his 11-minute contribution yesterday.
 
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M

MLBash93

All-Conference
Jan 23, 2012
1,507
2,175
113
ColonelRutgers said:
If we’re playing Miller meaningful minutes we’re in deep trouble. This narrative that he’s some kind of lock down defender is not something evidenced in games and he’s simply a liability as a distributor and shooter on offense. Since Simpson was such a deer in the headlights at times against Temple and with no Caleb and Paul there were no other options but to play Miller.
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I get chastised for saying this exact same opinion
 
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S

Saint Puppy

All-Conference
Sep 4, 2013
4,595
2,420
113
BillyC80 said:
Gotta give the kid some props. Lock down or not, he gives tremendous effort on D and always has the toughest assignment.

He has surprising hops as evidenced on those rebounds. Yesterday on offense he came out of his shell a little, which was good to see. His jumper looked smooth and solid form-wise. He can take it to the hole with a decent handle and good quickness.

His stats were pretty good for a guy who gets spot floor time. Hard to criticize his 11-minute contribution yesterday.
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I'm rooting for him, and effort is great, but at some point you have to do the math. If he's a net zero at best on offense and his defense is good, but not great then where does that leave us? Sorry the math just doesn't work for me here.
 
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BillyC80

Heisman
Oct 23, 2006
17,101
15,517
72
Saint Puppy said:
I'm rooting for him, and effort is great, but at some point you have to do the math. If he's a net zero at best on offense and his defense is good, but not great then where does that leave us? Sorry the math just doesn't work for me here.
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Miller was a net positive on offense yesterday, with 2 points on 1-3 shooting, 1 offensive rebound, 1 assist and no turnovers in 11 minutes. Simpson (who I also really like), on the other hand was a net negative on offense, with 4 points on 1-11 shooting and 1-5 on FTs, 0 offensive boards, 3 assists and 2 turnovers in 33 minutes. For this Temple game at least, the Miller math works better for me. Let’s see what happens next…
 
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MadRU

MadRU

Heisman
Jul 26, 2001
38,227
19,525
98
Miller is a good initial defender. But once the first move is stopped or a pass is made he seems to wander off the play. This can be addressed with watching film and coaching. Let’s hope it is.
 
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S.W.A.I.N

All-Conference
Nov 23, 2004
4,579
4,862
81
MadRU said:
Miller is a good initial defender. But once the first move is stopped or a pass is made he seems to wander off the play. This can be addressed with watching film and coaching. Let’s hope it is.
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Yup. He fouls often too, if he plays extended minutes he’ll be in foul trouble undoubtedly. As others have said, he’s pesky, but not lock down.
 
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richthedentist

All-American
Aug 2, 2001
11,022
8,578
113
ColonelRutgers said:
If we’re playing Miller meaningful minutes we’re in deep trouble. This narrative that he’s some kind of lock down defender is not something evidenced in games and he’s simply a liability as a distributor and shooter on offense. Since Simpson was such a deer in the headlights at times against Temple and with no Caleb and Paul there were no other options but to play Miller.
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Agree 100% when Paul and Caleb come back he needs to see zero minutes
 
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rudad02

All-American
Nov 7, 2010
8,853
5,773
0
PSAL_Hoops said:
Didn’t play enough yesterday in my opinion. I’ve been hard on him before, but he was the only bench option worth a lick yesterday. In 11 minutes of action, he made a nice basket, grabbed 4 boards, had an assist and didn’t turn the ball over. Another driving lay up was in and out. His one bad shot was a put back on an offensive board in traffic where he should’ve kicked it out. I saw a lot of improvement and promise from him.

If Caleb and Paul can’t go, I hope to see more of him vs. Rider.
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Agreed.
 
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Scangg

Heisman
Mar 19, 2016
25,448
49,369
113
Simpson is way better than Miller, but against Temple, Simpson was having a horrible game. Miller should have played more and Simpson less

Specific to this particular game only. Sometimes a player is just having a rough night. Unfortunately Simpson did in a game we really needed him
 
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P

PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
13,304
12,623
78
ColonelRutgers said:
If we’re playing Miller meaningful minutes we’re in deep trouble. This narrative that he’s some kind of lock down defender is not something evidenced in games and he’s simply a liability as a distributor and shooter on offense. Since Simpson was such a deer in the headlights at times against Temple and with no Caleb and Paul there were no other options but to play Miller.
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Scangg said:
Simpson is way better than Miller, but against Temple, Simpson was having a horrible game. Miller should have played more and Simpson less

Specific to this particular game only. Sometimes a player is just having a rough night. Unfortunately Simpson did in a game we really needed him
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He’s a frosh. It happens. And moreso to a kid being asked to suddenly step up and run the offense.

It’s amazing how this thread has become a discussion of whether Miller’s defense is overrated. My original post (and reasoning for hoping he would play in the next one without Paul or Caleb) had almost nothing to do with defense. We needed his ball handling and experience (relative to Simpson) in this situation. He made a shot and was really close on the drive where he penetrated against better defenders than we’ll see vs. Rider. He’s earned more minutes in the next one IMO (assuming we’re not getting either of our regular guys back).

For the avoidance of doubt, against any real team (Rider being on the cusp), Caleb (at full strength) is the number 2 choice on the team right now after Paul to run the point and it isn’t close.
 
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RutgHoops

Heisman
Aug 14, 2008
9,239
12,411
102
Lawboy12007 said:
Caleb ran the point a couple of years ago against the Illini on the road when Geo was out. He scored, defended, distributed abd rebounded well when he had the ball in his hands. FYI we won.
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In his 6th game as a frosh (against Pitt) Caleb went 0-4/0-3/0 points/3 reb/1 asst. Dont remember that game vividly, but I’m guessing he looked “overmatched” against that comp. And he turned out ok.

Simpson will be fine. Fridays game with Rutgers at way less than 100% strength was a tough spot for a freshman.
 
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RUsojo

Heisman
Dec 17, 2010
29,429
28,577
113
Lawboy12007 said:
Caleb ran the point a couple of years ago against the Illini on the road when Geo was out. He scored, defended, distributed abd rebounded well when he had the ball in his hands. FYI we won.
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Caleb is much more comfortable and effective on the ball.

Wanting Jalen miller more confused me. We couldn’t score and we brought in a guy who can’t score. Didn’t catch the whole game but seemed like deficit increased after that?
 
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Greene Rice FIG

Heisman
Dec 30, 2005
40,437
23,613
0
RutgHoops said:
In his 6th game as a frosh (against Pitt) Caleb went 0-4/0-3/0 points/3 reb/1 asst. Dont remember that game vividly, but I’m guessing he looked “overmatched” against that comp. And he turned out ok.

Simpson will be fine. Fridays game with Rutgers at way less than 100% strength was a tough spot for a freshman.
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Caleb was overmatched as a freshman as the backup point guard. Right now Simpson doesn’t seem like a point guard as Caleb didn’t look like a point guard. Caleb still isn’t a point guard.
 
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Greene Rice FIG

Heisman
Dec 30, 2005
40,437
23,613
0
RUsojo said:
Caleb is much more comfortable and effective on the ball.

Wanting Jalen miller more confused me. We couldn’t score and we brought in a guy who can’t score. Didn’t catch the whole game but seemed like deficit increased after that?
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He looked more comfortable and actually made wing entries and initiated things. Worth noting that Temples D wasn’t the same intensity in the 2nd half Don’t remember personnel, but I know 0 didn’t start and the D being played was strong without him in the court
 
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Greene Rice FIG

Heisman
Dec 30, 2005
40,437
23,613
0
PSAL_Hoops said:
For the avoidance of doubt, against any real team (Rider being on the cusp), Caleb (at full strength) is the number 2 choice on the team right now after Paul to run the point and it isn’t close.
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Unfortunately in late November this is the case. My biggest fear with this team is that as the opponent plays with more intensity even Paul and Caleb could have trouble getting us in to a half court rhythm. There were times last year Geo had to take over.

Paul can methodically take his man down low with the dribble and have his head up the entire time. He doesn’t do it with a quick 1st step that a defender has to respect.
 
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PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
13,304
12,623
78
@RUSoho - watch the game. First of all - Miller was better on offense in this one than defense. Commiting that foul on the 3 point shot in the first half wasn’t exactly Miller’s best moment…

But on offense - it’s hard to find much flaw in his game. He was brought in to stop the turnover bleeding. 10 of them committed before he checked into the game. None committed from the time he entered. His experience had a clear stabilizing impact - arguably was the difference between us taking an absolute schooling vs. how the rest of the game went. Derek checked in again toward the end of the first half and he had noticeably calmed down. He’s a frosh. It’s going to happen.

Then in the 2nd half - Miller gave us 3 excellent minutes all around - but especially on offense. At the 11:53 mark we call time out down 49-34 (15 points). Jalen checks in and makes a lay up at the 11:39 mark. We get a defensive stop and on the next offensive set Cam misses a 3 and Jalen crashes the paint in traffic for the rebound gets blocked badly on the put back (but his aggression crashing the glass was still a great sign). He remained in the game. Hyatt hit a pair of free throws after another stop then we trade baskets. We then get a steal and Jalen finds Mag in transition for the assist. Temple calls time out with their lead down to 9 at the 9:04 mark. Simpson replaces Miller.

Based solely on the 11 minutes Miller played in this one game there’s not a lot to complain about on his offense.
 
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PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
13,304
12,623
78
Greene Rice FIG said:
Unfortunately in late November this is the case. My biggest fear with this team is that as the opponent plays with more intensity even Paul and Caleb could have trouble getting us in to a half court rhythm. There were times last year Geo had to take over.

Paul can methodically take his man down low with the dribble and have his head up the entire time. He doesn’t do it with a quick 1st step that a defender has to respect.
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I don’t disagree - but despite an off day all around I’m still optimistic we’re also going to be a much better transition team so hopefully with Paul and Caleb back we can find a successful identity in different ways. It was an awful, short handed performance where we had no bench depth, but we still forced 20 turnovers without Caleb against a team that isn’t a tomato can.

With either Paul or Caleb playing we don’t commit 10 turnovers in the first 10 minutes. So the game likely flows differently regardless.
 
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MiloTalon13

All-American
Jun 3, 2022
3,979
5,608
0
Rutgers had two of the top 11 players in the Big Ten in assists last season. Mulcahy is the top returning player in the Big 10 in assists. But they're not the right kind of assists?
How many pass-first "prototype point guards" are there on P5 teams this season?
 
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