MC 49 PC 14 Final nm

[JCHillmen10]

Honestly, I doubt it. If a team like ESL volunteers then teams like BR and Batavia will be more than happy to battle it out for a 7A title. Schools don't care about the perception of others when it comes to titles, they just want to win them to keep communities, donors, parents, and players happy. Otherwise why haven't schools like LeWin, Wilmington, or Rochester ever volunteered to play up? Hell, even MC has never voluntarily moved up a class and neither has Naz, PC or JCA during years they were winning multiple titles.

Yes because the perception right now is all titles matter fairly equally. An open class may (or may not) change that perception.

Right now if MC wins 8A and BR wins 7A, all is good.

But if the new 9A open class pops up, will BR be good with the first or second runner up consolation prize of winning 8A or 7A???

Maybe they will, but there would certainly be the pressure of "well you only won the lower level."

Right now I don't feel there is that feeling toward the 7A champ.

 

[JCHillmen10]

I have a way to fix this problem, sure to make even me mad. We take the Maxpreps rankings (since people love them so much) and we take the highest ranked 8 private schools and put them in 8A. The next 8 go into 7A. So on and so forth. Can adjust the number based on the amount that make the playoffs. We may need to adjust it so that no private goes into a class that its enrollment is larger than, but I am willing to wait and see if it matters.

I dig it.

I would go even further and do it for public and private. I like getting rid of enrollment altogether and instead using maxpreps or some other algorithm and placing the top 32 or 48 in one class. Then the next 32 or 48 and so on. Would make for some killer matchups.

Naz vs Brook in round 1 for the right to play Rochester with the winner of that getting ESL. Would be such a fun postseason.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

Yes because the perception right now is all titles matter fairly equally. An open class may (or may not) change that perception.

Right now if MC wins 8A and BR wins 7A, all is good.

But if the new 9A open class pops up, will BR be good with the first or second runner up consolation prize of winning 8A or 7A???

Maybe they will, but there would certainly be the pressure of "well you only won the lower level."

Right now I don't feel there is that feeling toward the 7A champ.

7A is gonna be tough this year.

 

[EdgingTim]

Yes because the perception right now is all titles matter fairly equally. An open class may (or may not) change that perception.

Right now if MC wins 8A and BR wins 7A, all is good.

But if the new 9A open class pops up, will BR be good with the first or second runner up consolation prize of winning 8A or 7A???

Maybe they will, but there would certainly be the pressure of "well you only won the lower level."

Right now I don't feel there is that feeling toward the 7A champ.

I don’t think schools will be rushing to make this more difficult. At the end of the day them ESL boys danced just as much winning 6a as they did winning 7a. In 20 years nobody will care if there was some hardo 9a class for all the big ego dudes and message board warriors to glaze.

not that I would know anything about ughhhhhh

mmmmmmm

glazing

Ughhhhh either you force them privates into 9a or nobody gonna do it

 

[Cross Bones]

I dig it.

I would go even further and do it for public and private. I like getting rid of enrollment altogether and instead using maxpreps or some other algorithm and placing the top 32 or 48 in one class. Then the next 32 or 48 and so on. Would make for some killer matchups.

Naz vs Brook in round 1 for the right to play Rochester with the winner of that getting ESL. Would be such a fun postseason.

Maxpreps has Bolingbrook at #51 right behind Mahomet-Seymour and Richmond-Burton and right above Edwardsville and Calhoun. Maxpreps is awful for publics because enrollment does matter, but seems pretty reasonable for privates.

 

[4Afan]

Yes because the perception right now is all titles matter fairly equally. An open class may (or may not) change that perception.

Right now if MC wins 8A and BR wins 7A, all is good.

But if the new 9A open class pops up, will BR be good with the first or second runner up consolation prize of winning 8A or 7A???

Maybe they will, but there would certainly be the pressure of "well you only won the lower level."

Right now I don't feel there is that feeling toward the 7A champ.

Agree to disagree then. There have been multiple years where people have had the feeling towards teams like Rochester of so what they won another 4A title, when will they challenge themselves.

In your example, I think BR and their supporters would be just fine with a 7A or 8A title.

All I'm saying is that teams don't move up to challenge themselves now so I don't see that changing with a hypothetical open class.

 

[JCHillmen10]

Agree to disagree then. There have been multiple years where people have had the feeling towards teams like Rochester of so what they won another 4A title, when will they challenge themselves.

In your example, I think BR and their supporters would be just fine with a 7A or 8A title.

All I'm saying is that teams don't move up to challenge themselves now so I don't see that changing with a hypothetical open class.

I don't think we're disagreeing.

Right now, petitioning "up" is only subjectively up. Nobody has ever been able to truly petition up into an open class.

What I think would be best is an open class that is not self selected, but rather forced entry. The top 8 or 16 are forced into the open class by some committee or algorithm.

Everyone else is left to play for titles that clearly don't mean as much because they were all teams not "selected' among the top. All hypothetical and none of it matters, but I would hope an open class would simply be a "you will play here" situation and not "who opted into the open class?" deal.

Take all of the guess work and gamesmanship and petitioning up option away and just say "these are the best 16 and they are in the open class. Everyone else will be assigned a traditional classification."

 

[4Afan]

I don't think we're disagreeing.

Right now, petitioning "up" is only subjectively up. Nobody has ever been able to truly petition up into an open class.

What I think would be best is an open class that is not self selected, but rather forced entry. The top 8 or 16 are forced into the open class by some committee or algorithm.

Everyone else is left to play for titles that clearly don't mean as much because they were all teams not "selected' among the top. All hypothetical and none of it matters, but I would hope an open class would simply be a "you will play here" situation and not "who opted into the open class?" deal.

Take all of the guess work and gamesmanship and petitioning up option away and just say "these are the best 16 and they are in the open class. Everyone else will be assigned a traditional classification."

So not an "open" class then. That's how Arizona does it. They use MaxPreps rankings and the top 8, I believe, play in their "open" class. No clue how it's perceived there.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

So not an "open" class then. That's how Arizona does it. They use MaxPreps rankings and the top 8, I believe, play in their "open" class. No clue how it's perceived there.

Does AZ maxpreps ranking have the correct teams ranked in 5A/6A? lol

 

[4Afan]

Does AZ maxpreps ranking have the correct teams ranked in 5A/6A? lol

They just go by overall. Top 8 go to open class. Here's what that would look like for Illinois right now.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

Massey for comparison.

 

[Colin2299]

Antioch did it to avoid Naz/JCA in 5A. Richards did it to avoid ESL. I thought that was common knowledge?

Antioch petitioned up to get a shot at East St. Louis.

I agree with your post, but that’s not what’s being discussed.

It’s teams moving up to avoid ESL. I don’t think that has ever been the case. Batavia was the big one in question last year with this. They have been a 7A program and are now down to 6A but have decided to stay in 7A because of their familiarity with 7A programs.

 

[USD24]

They just go by overall. Top 8 go to open class. Here's what that would look like for Illinois right now.View attachment 1470122

Well, we already know what the 1 vs 8 seed game would look like and it's not pretty.

 

[MC63]

Nobody is saying that at all.

I believe they petitioned up for the reasons you stated, as do most people.

It is unfortunate that it worked out where it deprived the state of a great playoff matchup between LA and MC as those were clearly the best two in the state that year and they played a great regular season game as well.

Loyola opted to petition up. MC did not. I respect LA's choice to play up. I simply wish it either wasn't an option for them (which would force the two best teams in the state to have been in the same 7A class that year) or that MC had chosen to petition up (which would have had the same desired outcome of a LA-MC playoff game, just in 8A).

Again, no knock on anyone. As has been pointed out, nobody really petitions to play up to seek out better competition. ESL, LA, and Rita seem to be the only exceptions.

If an ardent, outspoken supporter of ESL, LA, or Rita wants to go on a multi year long rant against trophy shopping, that would be coming from a place of moral authority. Coming from an ardent, outspoken supporter of a school that has never petitioned up itself is the issue here.

And I don't fault MC or anyone for not petitioning up. It is just interesting that the only big CCL advocate of petitioning up comes from a school who has never petitioned up and who benefitted when Loyola petitioned up to give his school a clearer path to a title.

Good on Loyola for petitioning up in the past.

Mt Carmel was in 7A with 550 boys. We didn't need to petition up - we were already there. In any event, Loyola Academy has 1000 boy -- your comparison don't hold up. We already play schools much larger than us .... why should we be anxious to play schools lie Stevenson Lyons with 2000 boys? Heck, Warren graduated 450 senior boys alone last June.

In any event, there is no excuse for Montini in 3A. Period.

Please excuse typos.

 

[pjjp]

Mt Carmel was in 7A with 550 boys. We didn't need to petition up - we were already there. In any event, Loyola Academy has 1000 boy -- your comparison don't hold up. We already play schools much larger than us .... why should we be anxious to play schools lie Stevenson Lyons with 2000 boys? Heck, Warren graduated 450 senior boys alone last June.

In any event, there is no excuse for Montini in 3A. Period.

Please excuse typos.

You need some new material.