Apparently we had a zoom today. Hadn't heard anything about it.
Magoon Gwath
- Thread starter BBNUK4Life
- Start date
JQ is getting more a possibility to come back every day
Please NO and **** NO while we’re at it…
He wears a knee brace and has a history of injuries, nah
Backup C with rim protection, upside, and likes to float on the perimeter helping clear the paint for the Stokes/Freeman types? I’m down
We need bodies still, and this guy could be a net positive. Plus, we nearly had him last time. Do it
I think he could compliment Moreno pretty well.
This guy has a fairly unusual set of skills. He’s an elite shot blocker and defender to go along with being a career 40% shooter from 3, albeit on fairly low volume, which is a combination you don’t see much. He’s not a good free throw shooter though, so it seems his touch is fairly specifically limited to his long distance set shot, isn’t a good passer at all, and what worries me the most about him potentially trying to translate to the SEC is that he’s extremely thin and struggles rebounding against physical competition. We could probably do worse, but I’m not completely sold on him being a big contributor at this level.
JQ could get Bidunga type $$$ to stay in college, instead of 25th pick type $$$, but that would mean that he would eventually have to play basketball in college, and JQ is trying to avoid doing that like the plague!
I like Gwath's fit better than Freeman to be honest, assuming Wright and Stokes get done. This team could really use a stretch 4 that brings juice on defense. He has a decent looking middy and can finish at the rim. Being underweight and lack of physicality is certainly concerning, but I think his length and rim protection still play.
Imagine a lineup of
PG - Wright
SG - McNeil
SF - Stokes
PF - Gwath
C - Moreno
You can play 4-out and teams have to respect it. What I've noticed a lot in college basketball lately is winning teams *not* respecting it by packing the paint with two bigs (Michigan, Duke, Florida). They're correct not to respect it because by and large, their opponents don't have enough perimeter shooting to punish, and Pope's zoom action concept doesn't really work with only 1-2 bona fide shooting threats on the court at any given time. I want to see a lineup that spreads those types of teams out and forces them into tough decisions.
Imagine a lineup of
PG - Wright
SG - McNeil
SF - Stokes
PF - Gwath
C - Moreno
You can play 4-out and teams have to respect it. What I've noticed a lot in college basketball lately is winning teams *not* respecting it by packing the paint with two bigs (Michigan, Duke, Florida). They're correct not to respect it because by and large, their opponents don't have enough perimeter shooting to punish, and Pope's zoom action concept doesn't really work with only 1-2 bona fide shooting threats on the court at any given time. I want to see a lineup that spreads those types of teams out and forces them into tough decisions.
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Damn! Is he really that bad of a passer?! Really need our bigs to be average passers at worst.
JQ is not coming.back,he said during the tournament,this was his last time in College,and his Dad made some bad comments about Pope, he's preparing for the draft , were ever he goes
No way Freeman is a way better player,and can score from any where on the floor,Gwath is decent but he's a backup at best,he can't store ,he can block shots but that's it,Freeman is big time.
I don't get the appeal of Freeman at all. Gwath is the three-level scorer here, not Freeman. Freeman is ball dominant and not a particularly good shooter. A lot of his efficiency is coming from the FT line. He's not a shot blocker or high impact defender. Gwath I envision as a rotation piece, and I'd expect his price to be in line with that. The injury history is too risky to pencil in as a big minutes guy.
31% on 3.3 attempts per game isn't a bad stretch 4. Gwath shoots 1.8 3s a game. Also, Freeman has a much better FT%, which tells me he has good touch. But I dont see Gwath playing the 4, more like backing up Moreno at the 5.
Freeman also has really high upside. He was tied with Quaintance out of high school in the RCSI rankings at 8th in the 24 class.
I think it lies with the fact that our offense struggled so badly at times last year. Can put the ball in Freeman’s hands and let him go get a bucket. Can’t do that with Gwath.
Yeah it is. You don't have to guard him at all out there and would gladly let a guy rip away for 0.93 PPP. He's not an efficient scorer from the floor and needs to get to the line. He's also a ball dominant, high USG% player that can't defend. Pretty much the worst archetype of player I can think of and would rather have any of the other PFs that have been linked so far.
Gwath is a back up 5. Not a starting center.
Your starting 4 is someone like Freeman (mostly likey) Muraukus, Milan, Goode, Graves etc.
No thanks. Hard pass. He’s stolen enough money already.
That's what Rob and Stokes are for. If Pope can't land them (or other players of their caliber) then none of this matters anyway. Freeman isn't leading a team to anything significant as a focal point of the offense. Oweh, Aberdeen, MoD, Chandler, and Moreno were all better last year. That's who we want to lock in as a key piece? Murauskas is the much better player for this role and archetype, to the extent that they should be stripping everything for parts to find the cash to get him.
Not sure why you're playing to me. I never claimed he was a starting center. He's also a 4 in any lineup next to Moreno.
IMO, Freeman is by far the better player here and it doesn't look close.
Gwath played in a mid major league and against anyone with a pulse, his numbers dropped, but turnovers went up.
The physicality in the SEC would punish Gwath, but Freeman actually played in a Power 4 league against legit competition.
Heck, SDSU only played 3 power 4 teams and one of them was Oregon, who stunk.
Out of SDSU's 33 games, most of which were against non tournament teams and only 3 against p4 teams, he only led in points scored 2 times and rebounds, 5 times.
As far as Freeman, it looks like he missed some games in late Nov/early Dec, but he was Syracuse's leading scorer and rebounder in most of their games. He also had 2 games where he was the high assist man.
To me, this is a no brainer, I would not take Gwath, I don't think he is who you want, even as a back up, in the SEC. Freeman has the size and skill to be a starter.
Gwath played in a mid major league and against anyone with a pulse, his numbers dropped, but turnovers went up.
The physicality in the SEC would punish Gwath, but Freeman actually played in a Power 4 league against legit competition.
Heck, SDSU only played 3 power 4 teams and one of them was Oregon, who stunk.
Out of SDSU's 33 games, most of which were against non tournament teams and only 3 against p4 teams, he only led in points scored 2 times and rebounds, 5 times.
As far as Freeman, it looks like he missed some games in late Nov/early Dec, but he was Syracuse's leading scorer and rebounder in most of their games. He also had 2 games where he was the high assist man.
To me, this is a no brainer, I would not take Gwath, I don't think he is who you want, even as a back up, in the SEC. Freeman has the size and skill to be a starter.
Give me Freeman! IF he can stay away from injuries. IMO, he’s a much more talented player with a much higher floor and ceiling.
I don’t know where you get PPP stats for players. What’s the STM guy’s numbers. Usage wise, it would obviously go down with better players around him like Patterson back in 09/10.
3 * 0.31 = 0.93 PPP
That's his expectation for ripping 3pt attempts at a 31% clip. Easy decision for the opposing team to sag, go under all screens, and draw his help defender to prevent shots that are actually efficient when the best offenses in cbb average > 1.2 PPP. You don't get anywhere near 1.2 even with ORBs starting at 0.9. That's not a stretch 4 because he's not stretching anything. Freeman is an inside-the-arc ball dominant player who relies on FTs for efficiency. Not exactly sure how that fits Pope's offense when you already have a 7-foot post player.
Out of the 2 players being compared here, Gwath is the backup. So you're disproving your own point.
Freeman is one of the best PF's in the country.
And either way, you are going to have to pay big money for a high end PF, if not, Pope might as well stay with Jelevic.
No because Gwath will cost backup money. Freeman is going to cost mega starter money while giving backup level performance. Let me give you a list of players who were better than Freeman last year: Oweh, Aberdeen, Chandler, Moreno, MoD, Kam. Both by Box Plus-Minus and Bayesian Performance Rating, two of the best all-encompassing metrics we have.
Freeman was a top 12 prospect coming out of high school that just averaged 16 and 7 in the ACC. He’s absolutely a bigger get than Gwath
Right. 16.5 PPG, 7.2 boards, 1.3 assists and basically 1 block per game screams starter to me lol
He'd start anywhere.
And that poster's argument doesnt hold water bc Gwath is looking for starter money too. No reason to think he's offering himself at a discount
We need studs but then when we're connected to studs it becomes "nah they actually arent that good". so annoying
I mean, personally, I don’t wanna bank on landing Stokes and/or Wright. Might as well try and grab Freeman. If you get him and Stokes and Wright don’t come, probably in trouble like you said, but if between him and Gwath, all else equal, gimme Freeman.
Gwath is the player Jelavic was supposed to be, but unlike Jelavic he can actually make 3s and play defense. You get floor spacing with efficient shooting on one end and rim protection on the other. 15-20 minutes per game slotting in the 4/5 depending on lineup.
Freeman is an entirely different archetype of player who collapses space since his higher efficiency plays come at the rim. He's also a massive black hole chucker that takes a lot of bad shots. Good rebounder who doesn't move the needle on defense. Paying up for Freeman means he's going to be a focal point of the offense first and foremost. I'd much rather get one of the PFs who's very skilled at offense if we're gonna make them a focal point of the offense.
The only way I’d even consider asking him back is if his entire deal was based on # of games played. Add escalators based on personal stats and team W/L.
You need ball handlers, passers, and shooters. That is what makes the zoom offense work as it was designed. Booby Knight style honestly. Passing is the most important thing in basketball besides being able to put the ball in the hoop.