To me blocking shots is overrated but I'm worried about a Pikiell defense without a Myles Johnson or Cliff Omoruyi type.
Mag
- Thread starter RAC93
- Start date
Mag is the least of this teams concerns. The ultimate glue guy.
I am sure flux can run correlations between defensive efficiencies and shot blocking % and prove me wrong with mathwe agree on a lot of things...found something we disagree on
@fluoxetine
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You can't block no shots but I'm not convinced being top 10 is meaningfully better than top 50. This year the #1 blocks team is Houston who has the #1 defense. #2 is Ole Miss who has the #131 defense.
Villanova championship teams were 93rd and 138th in blocks but 5th and 11th in overall defense. I'm cherry picking and there's definitely a positive correlation between blocks and defense but I dunno. Drives me nuts when Cliff leaves his guy to try and block and we give up an easy put back.
Is it though? I mean, yes, I think we all believe that to be the case, but it's not like Pike has come out and said he's not playing because of his defense. In the first 3 B1G games last year, Derek played about 18 minutes per game and then suddenly he dropped to 9 minutes per game for the next 4. It started to come back up again, but really only jumped after Mag got hurt. Granted, Gavin just went through game 5 post-minutes cut but if you look at the trend it really is pretty similar. Of course, this all goes out the window if Gavin's minutes don't jump in the next 2-3 games.
Go back at look at Derek's playing arc last year. It's actually pretty similar to Gavin. It was at about this point last season that Derek' minutes kicked back up.
Well Cliff going for blocks should be covered by weak side forward coming to the middle to get the rebound. Cliff goes for blocks because our guards are being beat and their guard is heading hard to the hole. Our guards should also go the glass when this happens and try to out muscle their big and not try to frantically try to chase the guard. Cliff has saved and altered many opponent guard shots and blocked them too. Was suprised yesterday Harmon kept on torching our guards , mostly Derek and Cliff didn’t block any , with the result being Harmon had 18 points a big reason why Illinois won and won convincingly . We need Cliff to block or alter as many shots as possible. The other players have to hit the glass to secure the rebound .
actually this is where he was losing minutes...Mag gets hurt than he absorbs some....and then Pike had a this bad Paul thing isnt working moment and then handed the ball to Derek
I do remember that, however I did not think Gavin and Derek would be even mentioned in the same sentence. Gavin is supposed to be a higher level player than Derek, even showed flashes with a 25 point game, good games against GTown and SHU. He is 4 for his last 28 over last 7 games. This season is a **** show for RU, but Gavin, Pike and staff trying to figure out a way to get better play out of Gavin should be a big priority for rest of season. Hoping he plays better and gets more minutes, but it’s a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy at the moment as he comes in for 5 minutes, misses a shot or two that shows poor shot selection and looks bad on the defensive end. That won’t get him more minutes, unless Pike says screw it, I’ll leave him out there and let him learn on the job.
I think Greenie and I had this convo a couple years ago. My position is like yours, blocked shots are a double-edged sword.
In going for a block you have bad outcomes and good. The best outcome is when the block is made, and your team gets possession of the ball.
Bad outcomes are: You get called for a foul instead, or you whiff and the opposition gets an easy put-back, or they get an easy OReb from which to set up another offensive play.
A neutral outcome is the ball is batted out of bounds and the opponent gets another chance at an offensive play.
The only other moderately positive aspect is a prolific shot-blocker becomes a deterrent to the opponent taking high percentage shots inside.
But kept playing Mulcahy as primary distributor, while Simpson brought the ball up court. It was Hyatt's minutes that really suffered with the increase of Simpson's in the last 3 games of the year.
There has to be a huge negatively correlation between shot blocking and opp 2 pt fg%
Simpson and Palmquist never started together.
Palmquist got two starts in games 27 & 28. The first was in place of an injured McConnell, and the second was with McConnell returning off the bench. Lineup for those two was Mulcahy/Spencer/Hyatt/Palmquist/Omoruyi
McConnell came back, and then Hyatt got replaced in the lineup a few games later by Simpson (games 32-34).
Mulcahy started every game from Game 10-34 (after working back from an injury sustained in Game 3). He never lost minutes to Simpson - the lowest minute total he had returned to the starting lineup was 30 in a game where he had foul trouble.
The past has seen this board criticize players such as Baker , McConnell , Mulcahy , Hyatt, Mag, Spencer , Simpson the list is endless and that’s only MBB in recent history … forget any other sports including all women’s sports.All teams ***** about players …
Could be deceptive. If the shot is blocked out of bounds or back to the opposition, they get another shot. So, on that trip to the offensive end, it appears that the opponent was 1-2 instead of 1-1 but they still only got 2 points on that trip.
Then you have to factor in the negatives, of allowing more second-chance opportunities when a block attempt fails and the opponent gets an easy OReb or easy put-back (very high % shot).
Oskar????? Are you kidding? He was in the terrible bucket yesterday, got totally abused.
A good percentage of shot blocks is help defense on a defender gojng to the basket in a reasonable place to score
Likely a higher than average shot going through
Likely a higher than average shot going through
3 points in 17 min, and struggled defensively (though he did draw one good charge).
"Pretty well for Palmquist" I'll give you, "pretty well" in a general sense is setting a very low bar.
Do you honestly not understand what statistics are, what they measure, or why they are created? Effective shooting percentages DO win games. How many shot clock violations did we supposedly have last year.. it can't have been that many because our turnover percentage is only marginally lower this year. Not nearly lower enough to counter the massive dropoff in shooting percentage (which was already terrible last year).
Seems really tough to know the answer because there's no tracking of something like "shots altered". I would imagine that blocks are really correlated with good defense but in theory if you altered a ton of shots without blocking them would it be significantly better? worse? hard to say imo
I've always been interested in the points given up from poor block attempts that led to extra FTs.
5 wasted dumb fouls is potentially 5 extra points. Plus it puts you closer to the Bonus.
Just picking on Noah - is he really going to block a shot? How much is he altering a shot?
Against the risk of fouling the guy and giving an extra FT.
There is something to be said for "make them earn it at the line" but most times the foul is a weak attempt.
Almost certainly. I’ll see if there is any data available when I get back from vacation on Thursday
Rim protection is very important. There is a mental aspect to it as well. Players know when they drive to the rim with Cliff there that he is lurking. No stats for altered shots or shots prevented due to a player not attempting at all
Down side is going for blocks leaves your big out of position for rebounds
Cliff has made giant strides in his development in shot blocking over his career. He has a much better feel and timing for it now
Wolf is a below the rim player and doesn't protect the rim
Down side is going for blocks leaves your big out of position for rebounds
Cliff has made giant strides in his development in shot blocking over his career. He has a much better feel and timing for it now
Wolf is a below the rim player and doesn't protect the rim
Here's block rate vs. defensive efficiency as done in about four minutes in excel. I'll play around some more after I'm back from my run.
I won't do the graphs but here's the R-squared for:
Blocks and defensive efficiency: 0.2017
DReb and defensive efficiency: 0.1953
Turnovers and defensive efficiency: 0.1153
3 point attempts allowed and defensive efficiency: -.0048 (only a very small penalty for allowing a lot of three point attempts)
Maybe blocks are more important than I thought.
Blocks and defensive efficiency: 0.2017
DReb and defensive efficiency: 0.1953
Turnovers and defensive efficiency: 0.1153
3 point attempts allowed and defensive efficiency: -.0048 (only a very small penalty for allowing a lot of three point attempts)
Maybe blocks are more important than I thought.
Mag plays as hard as he can. The comment made about him I think is horrible. Some people I think just try to drive our players away. He should be a huge part of our team next year. Some just loving ripping our guys after every loss. Most probably never played a sport in college on a major level.