Am I alone in thinking this 'move' is another ill thought out stab at relevancy by the Illini that will again blow up in their faces? Classy guy, Lovie? Always has seemed to be. But he's an out of work HC who has been fired twice after the last four seasons. It's actually twice after the last three seasons in which he coached as he was completely out of work in 2013. He's had five winning seasons in his entire coaching career, and only two since 2009. He's neither energetic nor exciting, both in demeanor or scheme, something you'd think a college team needing to generate excitement would seek out. He hasn't coached in college, and therefore hasn't recruited, in over 20 years. While that may or may not be an issue, what is an issue for a program looking for stability, I would think, is a 'career' NFL coach taking a college job only because he is out of work, thereby increasing the likelihood that he will bolt back to the NFL at the first chance he gets (likely after a single successful season at Illinois).
Lovie?
- Thread starter DarthCat
- Start date
Its all about relevancy Darth. We have sold 200 new season tickets through approximately 10:00 when the ticket office website crashed from too much traffic. We are getting national publicity. The fanbase, which has had ZERO energy for a decade, is on fire right now.
I have little doubt we will be more successful with Smith as our coach. He has a great deal of $$ to work with for assistant coaches. I also think you are diminishing his success to a certain degree, however, I understand the negativity coming from a rival. I expect Illinois to be extremely competitive in the Big Ten West in a few years.
I don't follow the NFL that closely, but guys getting hired as HCs typically have offensive pedigrees (e.g. Gase, Chip Kellypalooza, Dirk Koetter, OC (who took Lovie's job). This does not bode well for Lovie returning to the league as an HC. Lovie's age will also work against him. So I don't think he's going to be jumping ship anytime soon, because rebuilding the Illini will take some time given the dearth of talent in recent recruiting classes.
But what kind of program ultimately has the most success in the Big Ten? Power running games with outstanding defenses. Look at OSU, Iowa, Wisconsin over the years. The best sustained success has been that type of team.
I agree this will take a few years, depending on if our offense can light it up this season. The talent is there to do so (with Dudek back at WR) but our LB's and DB's are going to struggle.
Most importantly though, the intangibles of this hire have completely changed the UI sports culture in the matter of a few days. It's hard to describe, but I am immersed in it living down here in Champaign, and have been going back and forth with other alumni for a few days now. It is an exciting time for us.
I would not confuse "culture" change with the initial excitement of the hiring news and the credibility that Lovie brings. I am not knocking any of this, but culture change does not happen anywhere with just one guy being replaced, even if it's the head guy. Culture change--sustained changes in group behavior--requires systems change. This takes time.
Lovie has a ton of experience and will bring order and professionalism. But his game day bonafides--the Cover 2--is not a great fit for college defenses in that it requires fairly specific personnel to make it really sing. To defend spread / read-option offenses, nirvana is having two CBs who can man up, and DEs who can set an edge and get to the passer. Then you need speed in the linebackers. Can Lovie recruit and develop these guys? Can he get assistants to teach these schemes?
Don't get me wrong. I think he's a good hire. He has credibility. But it's only the first step in many needed to fix what is broken down there.
Lovie has a ton of experience and will bring order and professionalism. But his game day bonafides--the Cover 2--is not a great fit for college defenses in that it requires fairly specific personnel to make it really sing. To defend spread / read-option offenses, nirvana is having two CBs who can man up, and DEs who can set an edge and get to the passer. Then you need speed in the linebackers. Can Lovie recruit and develop these guys? Can he get assistants to teach these schemes?
Don't get me wrong. I think he's a good hire. He has credibility. But it's only the first step in many needed to fix what is broken down there.
I think it was a good/great hire compared to Bill Cubit.
But the NFL coaches with success in going back to college have gone to more traditional powers.
Jim Harbaugh-Michigan
Jim Mora-UCLA
Pete Carroll-USC
I think Lovie will fall more along the lines of:
Mike Sherman Texas A&M
Dave Wannstedt Pittisburgh
Bill Callahan Nebraska
But if your a U of I fan mine as well have unreasonable confidence.
But the NFL coaches with success in going back to college have gone to more traditional powers.
Jim Harbaugh-Michigan
Jim Mora-UCLA
Pete Carroll-USC
I think Lovie will fall more along the lines of:
Mike Sherman Texas A&M
Dave Wannstedt Pittisburgh
Bill Callahan Nebraska
But if your a U of I fan mine as well have unreasonable confidence.
I can't really figure out the move but Illinois is really desperate for something positive to hang its hat on. It will take a Harbaughesque type of approach to make Illinois competitive again. Seems like Lovie is looking for a place to semi-retire and get a job for his kids. Does not make much sense but coming out of Illinois maybe it does.
200 season tickets? Holy smokes!
No matter how good he is (and Dudek is a pretty darn good player), I'm not so sure the return of a single player will simply make an offense that much better. Whether you want to agree or not, Lunt's first season at UIUC was pretty darn disappointing, plus you lose the one guy who was making your offense move toward the end of last season in Josh Ferguson, only other decent receiver in Allison, and the cornerstone of an already-questionable OL in Karras.
Throw in the departures of Marchie Murdock, Henry Enyenihi, TJ Neal, and a whole lot of other guys... I know I'm a bit biased, but it could be a pretty decent struggle in Champaign for a little while.
Not sure if your season ticket comment was sarcastic or not, but the number is up to 700 this morning alone. Considering the incredible apathy regarding the program, that is a big number of season tickets in about 4 hours time.
Not expecting to reverse our schedule this season, but I do believe the offense will be okay. Defense a completely different story.
If you're measuring an increase in ticket sales by the "hundreds," it's not really all that impressive.
Still not really seeing it for the Illini offense, especially in light of Lovie's strengths as a coach. The personnel just isn't really there.
Maybe you're right bkillini. You know as much as any of us do about the future outlook of any coach. This just feels to me more like a publicity stunt (allowing Lovie to bring his two kids) and a short term shot of attendance adrenaline as opposed to a step in building a long term culture change within the program. Of course it's wishful thinking on my part. You guys have been an absolute dumpster fire for years and I've enjoyed it immensely. (I for one don't understand the NU fan opinion that we WANT a strong U of I competing with us on more equal footing) But maybe you're right, and Lovie will be up there for a decade winning multiple West Titles and Big Ten Championships and making everyone wonder why Lovie wasn't approached by any other college program before.
Yeah, because NU's attendance is always through the roof.
Lovie is a great hire for you guys. Good luck to him and the program. It would be fun for the NU - Illini game to be really important at the end of the year each year for both teams. I'm a big fan of the way Lovie Smith does his job and the way he is with people.
Never said our attendance was spectacular. But it kind of makes sense for the only private school in the conference without a sizable alumni base or "natural fans" who live in the state.
Says the guy whose school has three times the students and alumni as NU yet only squeaks past us in attendance.
In 1 day. In March. That's pretty outstanding I'd say. I'll bet the rest of the B1G, combined, didn't sell 700 season tickets today.
Not denying that Illinois still has a long way to go under Lovie, but getting the fan base energized, and making what is clearly a home run hire for Illinois is a great way to get started.
And don't mistake my comment about "home run hire". There are no sure winners when it comes to hiring college football coaches if you're not talking about a Saban, Meyer or Dantonio. And there's no guarantee that Lovie will be a big success at Illinois. But for a program with the recent and long-term problems that Illinois has had, hiring Lovie is clear win, and hiring Josh Whitman as the new AD may ultimately prove to be even more important over the long haul. Pretty impressive debut for the Illinois AD.
I agree it is a good hire for the Illini, at least it terms of the potential it opens (which I think is likely going to be somewhere below what their fans believe). Lovie brings dignity and bearing which the Illini have not had for several years. I think he brings creditability with high school coaches that Illinois had ignored or destroyed in the past. I have no doubt he will be welcomed into any Chicago and environs coach's office. I think he will focus on what his team is doing rather than what another, e.g. NU, is doing. All of these are positive for the Illini. As far as adapting to college coaching and today's game it remains to be seen.
I would also make an observation about their athletic director, assuming this all plays out as it appears. This is the first time in a long time that any action has been taken that was completed (with the exception of player notification) professionally without being publicly played out weeks in advance with rumors, ridiculous speculations, false starts, over promises and under delivery etc. They may have turned a new leaf but a lot still remains to be seen.
Do you really enjoy beating up on a team that would probably finish in the lower half of the MAC? Would you like to see NU go 12-0 by beating programs like IL, Purdue, Rutgers, Eastern Mich., Western IL, and John Barleycorn U?
If Illinois were decent, a late-season game at Soldier Field would draw 55,000 and bring some excitement to college football in Chicago, which is a pro sports town. Frankly, if IL has to suck in order for us to beat them, where's the fun in that?
Im going to side with the Illini guys here on this one, with a caveat. For PR and energy and jump starting a moribund program, this was a genius move. The NFL angle is a good one. 100% positive as everyone thinks or aspires to play in the NFL. However, I think the coaching landscape is different today.
I think you will see the next 20 years of the same 5-10 teams at the top and 25 other teams recruiting, coaching and playing good football. If they get breaks etc. they will compete for a championship every now and then, but players will be looking to the next 50 years not next 10. I think this is where NU will hopefully be a leading program.
Then you have to realize that TV has made recruiting national for everyone. Look at Oklahoma, 10 years ago 50%+ of the team came from Texas. Last year's class 15%.
Illinois, with the soft schedule could easily be a consistent 8-4, 7-5 program under Lovie Smith within three years. But, Champaign has disadvantages against peer conference teams. They arent in the Penn State, MICH, OSU category. They dont have the college town like Indiana or Wisconsin. They dont have the only game in town like NEB or Iowa. They don't have the unique selling component of Northwestern.
When I see the Big Ten I see the following...taking in brand, resources, history, coaching and university atmosphere....
Group 1 - OSU and Michigan
Group 2 - Penn State and Michigan State (Dantonio gets a lot of credit here, because the other areas are not in their favor)
Group 3 - (each one as a unique selling point, plus at least two other positive factors) Iowa, Northwestern, Nebraska, Wisconsin
Group 4 - Maryland, Indiana
Group 5 - Illinois, Rutgers, Purdue
I think you will see the next 20 years of the same 5-10 teams at the top and 25 other teams recruiting, coaching and playing good football. If they get breaks etc. they will compete for a championship every now and then, but players will be looking to the next 50 years not next 10. I think this is where NU will hopefully be a leading program.
Then you have to realize that TV has made recruiting national for everyone. Look at Oklahoma, 10 years ago 50%+ of the team came from Texas. Last year's class 15%.
Illinois, with the soft schedule could easily be a consistent 8-4, 7-5 program under Lovie Smith within three years. But, Champaign has disadvantages against peer conference teams. They arent in the Penn State, MICH, OSU category. They dont have the college town like Indiana or Wisconsin. They dont have the only game in town like NEB or Iowa. They don't have the unique selling component of Northwestern.
When I see the Big Ten I see the following...taking in brand, resources, history, coaching and university atmosphere....
Group 1 - OSU and Michigan
Group 2 - Penn State and Michigan State (Dantonio gets a lot of credit here, because the other areas are not in their favor)
Group 3 - (each one as a unique selling point, plus at least two other positive factors) Iowa, Northwestern, Nebraska, Wisconsin
Group 4 - Maryland, Indiana
Group 5 - Illinois, Rutgers, Purdue
Shoe on the other foot....
If Northwestern had an opening and hired Lovie....
Positives
1) Glad the administration was decisive
2) Brought in a guy that gets attention from day 1
3) Attracted a guy without the perception it was offered to a dozen and they all passed
4) Attracted a Pro Coach that can sell recruits on I know what the NFL wants
Negatives
1) College game is different...Recruiting
2) Bringing in his 2 kids as coaches...Ick
On balance...Illinois needs to take some risks to regain its reputation. Sometimes you have to take some risks to get out of the rut they are in. Probably a decent risk to take
If Northwestern had an opening and hired Lovie....
Positives
1) Glad the administration was decisive
2) Brought in a guy that gets attention from day 1
3) Attracted a guy without the perception it was offered to a dozen and they all passed
4) Attracted a Pro Coach that can sell recruits on I know what the NFL wants
Negatives
1) College game is different...Recruiting
2) Bringing in his 2 kids as coaches...Ick
On balance...Illinois needs to take some risks to regain its reputation. Sometimes you have to take some risks to get out of the rut they are in. Probably a decent risk to take
I would add the following positive in that Lovie Smith brings in a reputation for integrity and for doing things the right way. Given the travails of UI sports coaches over the past two years, I believe that to be a major plus. Although Cubit was not faulted in the final report against Beckman, he was listed in the original statements. I would make this one a big win for the Illini.
You missed, intentionally? one of the top defenses in the conference. NORTHWESTERN!
I have to agree and side with the Illini spin here. There really is limited downside to this move and Lovie will open some doors. After some ridiculous hires, he brings instant credibility.
A 700 increase in March after the team has stunk for 10 years is impressive to me. NU won 10 games and played on New Year's Day and I'd be shocked if season tickets increase more than 100. I agree with your point though that lovie has no reason to stay at Illinois - if he does well and gets an NFL offer is think he'd leave.
There are many very good coaches who now seem to find the compensation $$ of college and other aspects of the job better than the NFL. I wouldn't be so quick to assume that Lovie or any other NCAA coach in a comfortable situation would go NFL. Lovie's recent experience with the coup in Tampa adds to it. Successful college coaches become the kings of their institutions. Even Fitz.
My grouping:
1 - OSU- national title contender every year, slew of NFL players, huge fan base etc.
2 - Michigan, MSU, Iowa, Wisconsin - Michigan working back to group 1, other 3 consistent big ten title contenders
3 - PSU, Nebraska - former blue bloods
4 - NU - education and decent recent football success
5 - purdue, maryland - were decent not to long ago but maybe now they have become "basketball schools"
6 - Minnesota, Illinois - blah
7 - Rutgers
8 - Indiana - basketball school - see Kansas, Kentucky etc
Yes, I enjoy beating up on the Illini regardless.
Yes, I would like to see NU go 12-0. We still have to get past the likes of Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin, not to mention and perhaps dOSU, MSU, and Michigan. Having a little of a break doesn't hurt.
Don't care about a late-season game at Soldier field drawing 55,000 or the Illini drawing excitement in Chicago. Hopefully, it's the CATS who are drawing excitement. We are afterall, Chicago's B1G team.
As I said, if IL sucks, it's still fun to beat them. The challenge is whether we can beat them like a drum. Squeaking by will seem to be a pyrrhic victory.
Don't get me wrong. If UofI is good, I still would like to beat them. Don't really care, but responding to the notion that somehow they have to be good to make things fun.
I mean, let's be honest, the move makes a lot of sense. If you can't see that, then you're not looking at this objectively. As for Lovie's kids: Trib reported that Mikal won't be joining his dad at UIUC, and it's undetermined if Miles will.
I have little doubt you will be more successful because I don't believe things could possibly get any worse....
New athletic director Josh Whitman says as a result of the timely hiring of Lovie "We will build a program that contends annually for Big Ten and national championships." To accomplish that unrealistic goal he will certainly need better coaches than his inexperienced kids so it is probably good that they will not be joining him.
Last edited:
The Chicago and St. Louis press is fairly gushing over the Smith hire (with the exclusion of the Tribune's resident Grinch, Teddy Greenstink). Even The Network exclaims that Illinois is finally "serious about football." Visions of a major turnaround, impact recruiting and a B1G championship are dancing in the pumpkin heads around the heartland.
The "stability" meme is thrown around quite a bit, and I guess it makes sense from the perspective that Cubit was effectively on head coach probation given his 2 year deal, and that the there had been two coaches fired in the previous 4 years. Personally, I don't think the NFL will come knocking on Lovie's door given his defensive pedigree and his age. So the argument that he will jump in a few years holds little water in my camp. Barring an implosion, Lovie will work through the term of his 5-year deal, if not longer.
As for as Whitman is concerned, mission accomplished for the month of March. He has generated a lot of positive buzz and clearly energized the fanbase. But the rest of the year holds a major test. First, building a staff and getting a spring practice together (likely will not happen). Then, establishing a recruiting presence. Then the 2016 season. With several very weak classes in the wake of TBeck, and the graduation of the Illini's best players, it is going to be a long season for the Illini. Will the fans be patient when the honeymoon is over?
The "stability" meme is thrown around quite a bit, and I guess it makes sense from the perspective that Cubit was effectively on head coach probation given his 2 year deal, and that the there had been two coaches fired in the previous 4 years. Personally, I don't think the NFL will come knocking on Lovie's door given his defensive pedigree and his age. So the argument that he will jump in a few years holds little water in my camp. Barring an implosion, Lovie will work through the term of his 5-year deal, if not longer.
As for as Whitman is concerned, mission accomplished for the month of March. He has generated a lot of positive buzz and clearly energized the fanbase. But the rest of the year holds a major test. First, building a staff and getting a spring practice together (likely will not happen). Then, establishing a recruiting presence. Then the 2016 season. With several very weak classes in the wake of TBeck, and the graduation of the Illini's best players, it is going to be a long season for the Illini. Will the fans be patient when the honeymoon is over?
Don't know if anyone else caught this but it got my attention. I was driving early today and listening to Mike and Mike. I believe it was Herm Edwards who was on at the time. They asked him what he thought of the Lovie hire. Paraphrasing here he basically said he loved the hire and would recommend any high school FB player in Illinois recruited by the Illini to accept if offered.
I'm not particularly worried about that but it can only help their recruiting.
I'm not particularly worried about that but it can only help their recruiting.
The Illini fans are a pretty patient bunch. They will fall away during the bad times and come back (saying they never left) during the good times. Pretty much a normal mid-range-type fan base. They have shown pretty amazing patience with some pretty inept coaches. I would be surprised if anyone but the crazies did not give him 3 years before getting too cranky.
Lol? Even NU grad Wilbon called it a genius move. Lovie hasn't forgotten how to coach. He is 57. That's not old. He was 81-63 with the freaking Bears and coached them to the a Super Bowl. He was fired after a 10-6 season. How has that worked out for them since?
Lovie is very impressive and has been given big resources to work with. This is not a retirement job. That's just silly.
Josh Whitman is going to be a hell of an AD, too.
I'm thinking there is a bit of trepidation in Evanston. Won't be so easy to recruit against Lovie. Fitz can't look down his nose and act like he is superior anymore.
Only one of his boys will be on staff and he has the resume for it. Another is a sports agent and the third is going to grad school (not at UI).
Watch the staff he puts together.
This is a joke, right? Visit Illinois message boards sometime and try to find patience.
Look no further than Zooker as a formidable recruiter who didn't mind bending the rules to field a talented team. Lovie-dovey will be more principled but perhaps not quite the recruiter that the Zookster was. He's a good short term fix for the Pumpkins.