But the one thing you can't get through your thick skull is they still lost. A loss by 1 or a loss by 100 equals the same a loss.
Love Neal Brown but
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While I Agree our offense is def our weakest aspect of the team, and I def see a lack of creativity at times. That said, if you dont have the talent to deploy the schemes you want, you have to make do with what you got, and what they can execute.
The one issue I had:
When you have an inexperienced or talent lacking OL, one blocking concept that can be deployed is Zone Stretch. Instead of using brute strength to push back off the line, like with traditional schemes. Zone stretch uses directional momentum and helps create lanes for RB's. That said, you also need certain type of RB to deploy it well, a shifty/fast type of RB. While Leddie is a really good RB, hes not an ideal match for the concept. However, Sinkfeld could have played the part. That said, I didnt see it deployed as often as I thought it could be.. To help diversify schematically...
Our offense has been rather bland/predictive/ordinary, however..... You gotta deploy what your players can execute. So Im not going to seriously begin analyzing offensive prowess until Brown has a full team of his recruits at the helm.. Even then, I think Brown wants to deploy complimented football, where both sides play to each strength & weakness, not weighting a single side heavier then the other.. So even when he has a full team of his recruits, I dont think WVU will be a program where we are identified for our potent offense. I think we'll be a well rounded team..
While Im not seriously analyzing results, it is nice to see progress being made. WVU was one of the most improved teams last year. Considering the starting point, we need to obtain another similar level of improvement before we can feel secure late in the 4th up 2 with the ball on our 40yrdline...
Brown realizes he cant score 40+ per game, so he's deploying a different strategy that plays to the strength of the team, to give them the best odds of winning.
I do think Doege will make progress this year, but he'll still be a "game manager" type of QB. There are some aspects of Doege's game/skillset that cant be changed, which ultimately places limitations on the schemes the staff can deploy. Once we have a more mobile QB, with better accuracy beyond 20 yards, that will be the point in which I think we will see a massive step forward in our offensive production & potency.
Until then, all we can do is hope Brown maximizes every current edge to increase the odds of positive outcome. So, Im hoping Doege's game takes another step forward, reducing a little schematic predictability, which should help us win an extra game or two..
Maybe Greene evolves quickly and takes the job at some point in the middle/late in this season. Which would def have a positive impact on his performance next year. Getting a few starts under his belt to prepare him for being the leader. That said, our team will produce based on our QB evolution. Brown is improving talent, which secures a certain level of success, however whether or not we begin achieving another level will depend laregly upon our QB, the OL giving him time, & WR's catching passes on critical 3rd downs. Assuming our Defense maintains a similar level of performance.
The one issue I had:
When you have an inexperienced or talent lacking OL, one blocking concept that can be deployed is Zone Stretch. Instead of using brute strength to push back off the line, like with traditional schemes. Zone stretch uses directional momentum and helps create lanes for RB's. That said, you also need certain type of RB to deploy it well, a shifty/fast type of RB. While Leddie is a really good RB, hes not an ideal match for the concept. However, Sinkfeld could have played the part. That said, I didnt see it deployed as often as I thought it could be.. To help diversify schematically...
Our offense has been rather bland/predictive/ordinary, however..... You gotta deploy what your players can execute. So Im not going to seriously begin analyzing offensive prowess until Brown has a full team of his recruits at the helm.. Even then, I think Brown wants to deploy complimented football, where both sides play to each strength & weakness, not weighting a single side heavier then the other.. So even when he has a full team of his recruits, I dont think WVU will be a program where we are identified for our potent offense. I think we'll be a well rounded team..
While Im not seriously analyzing results, it is nice to see progress being made. WVU was one of the most improved teams last year. Considering the starting point, we need to obtain another similar level of improvement before we can feel secure late in the 4th up 2 with the ball on our 40yrdline...
Brown realizes he cant score 40+ per game, so he's deploying a different strategy that plays to the strength of the team, to give them the best odds of winning.
I do think Doege will make progress this year, but he'll still be a "game manager" type of QB. There are some aspects of Doege's game/skillset that cant be changed, which ultimately places limitations on the schemes the staff can deploy. Once we have a more mobile QB, with better accuracy beyond 20 yards, that will be the point in which I think we will see a massive step forward in our offensive production & potency.
Until then, all we can do is hope Brown maximizes every current edge to increase the odds of positive outcome. So, Im hoping Doege's game takes another step forward, reducing a little schematic predictability, which should help us win an extra game or two..
Maybe Greene evolves quickly and takes the job at some point in the middle/late in this season. Which would def have a positive impact on his performance next year. Getting a few starts under his belt to prepare him for being the leader. That said, our team will produce based on our QB evolution. Brown is improving talent, which secures a certain level of success, however whether or not we begin achieving another level will depend laregly upon our QB, the OL giving him time, & WR's catching passes on critical 3rd downs. Assuming our Defense maintains a similar level of performance.
We had a great play caller. We have a mediocre play caller. Doesn't mean the offensive staff can't improve but anyone defending Brown's vanilla scheme is trying too hard.
It doesn't take a "couch coach" to tell the difference between Chip Kelly and Jeff Mullen.
Lol at anyone crying go coach and do better for people being critical on a football message board.
It doesn't take a "couch coach" to tell the difference between Chip Kelly and Jeff Mullen.
Lol at anyone crying go coach and do better for people being critical on a football message board.
Definitely agree that Dana is a much better offensive mind.
It also doesn't take a "couch coach" to realize the difference between Grier and Doege.
Nevertheless, when Dana had better QB's, (Geno, Trickett, Grier) the offense was much more dynamic than the years with Howard and Millard.
Right now, WVU is in a Howard/Millard period. Until someone beats out Doege, or he graduates/leaves, WVU will remain there.
SO THE PLAYERS BEAR NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR DROPPING PASSES? BUT COACHES ONLY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR DROPPED PASSES, MISSED TACKLES, POOR BLOCKS? ISN'T IS A COMBINATION OF TEACHER AND STUDENT, AS WITH EVERYTHING IN LIFE?
It's quite simple Joseph, Good Management leads to good execution. Bad Management leads to bad execution. NB needs to hire a good OC.
BY YOUR STANDARD AND WVU'S FOOTBALL RECORD IN ITS HISTORY IT RARELY HAS HAD GOOD MANAGEMENT. UNDER RICH AND BILL WAS THE BEST DECADE IN WVU'S HISTORY. UNDER DOC SPEARS IN 1922 THE BEST SEASON IN WVU HISTORY. BOTH ARE INDISPUTABLE.
Lincoln Riley, Rich Rod, & Sark all combined on the same staff wouldnt have been able to do much better the past two years. Not with the lack of talent, growth, & experience that NB inherited.
You can only deploy concepts, schemes, routes, throws, blocks, etc that your players can execute. If your WR's cant win 1vs1 battles, toss out man beater concepts, if your QB cant throw beyond 20 yards, toss out half the route tree, if your OL cant sustain blocks, you get the point.
A coach can deploy a perfect development strategy, teach perfect technique, concepts, etc, but the talent of the players still have to execute. NB simply hasnt had the players to deploy anything other than the basics, and even those at times were not executed well. I dont think some people truly understand just how bad of a roster that he was handed.. That takes a few years to begin resolving it. Esp when you want to build for long-term success and not grab every decent JUCO players just to hit 7 wins.. "Long Game" = Requires Patience.
YOu expect him to deploy the same man beater concepts as Sark did at Bama, or triple option concepts with a QB without mobility...
There is a reason why talent is needed to win. Its multi-factorial. Not just the benefits the talent alone offers, but also how it diversifies how the staff can attack opposing schemes.
NB inherited one of if not the worst WVU team in the last 25+ years. The fact he was able to manage 5 wins in 2019 should be considered one of the best coaching jobs in recent memory. Look at how many holes were on the roster in 2019 & 2020, we still have some of them and its his 3rd year. Thats how bad of a trash can program NB received by the previous staff.
Its not realistic or logical to analyze the current staffs results based on the previous staff's shortcomings. We regressed under DH, if you think otherwise, he should have crushed Syracuse in the bowl game. Shoot, DH even had a few of the 2018 impact players play in that game, that NB didnt get..
Look at DH's recruiting in 2015,2016,2017.... 5-6 of the best players of each class left before Brown was hired. When you subtract those players from those classes, it paints a very clear picture of the mess NB walked into..
in 2013, the year after DH lost Geno+Austin+Bailey, DH only won 2 P5 games. NB won 4 P5 games.
in 2014 DH won 6 P5 games. NB won 5 (Without likely FSU & Maryland wins, due to COVID) - Maryland was young last year, talented but young.... They will be a different team this year, its going to be a tough game for us...
DH a "genius" offensive mind, only managed to score 17 points vs Syracuse. He also had Sills & Wesco, David Long, Kenny Robinson, Marcus Simms, etc...
DH had a better team vs Syracuse, BUT NB's 2019 points avg was 3.5 points higher.(20.583)
There is no doubt the offense needs to improve in many areas, but NB started with such a talent deficit, every coach in the USA, no matter how great would still need 3-4 years to climb out of that hole. Which is why many of the national sports writers/analyst, are writing about how good of a job Brown is doing at WVU. They understand, without bias or a hatred for WVU(like some in this forum), the state of the program was in when he was hired.
Brown doesnt have many "Fluff" games in our schedule to pad his record either, unlike other programs & other WVU coaches. So for those who only look at wins/losses, then lets keep it apples to apples and count P5 opponents.
Historically, it takes a coach 5 years to turn a program around. This is going into his 3rd year, he's still playing with cards he didnt draw... So lets give him time needed to get a full team of players he recruited, then we can seriously analyze the quality of our staff. Until then, lets identify the improvements when we see them, and realize we are extremely blessed to have Brown building our program. Hes already showing us that recruiting here is not "IMPOSSIBLE", you just have to be creative, strategize, and focus on the factors that attract players/recruits.
Everyone needs to relax..... The magnitude of change required was abnormally high, lets give him time to cement his vision.
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They haven’t had the time in the pocket to create explosive plays in the passing game.
Pretty simple.
Football is pretty simple. How long do you have to create separation.
Finally people realize you can create separation before the play even starts.
Not like there are 9-10 players near the ball anymore.
That separation can’t be created after the snap if you can’t block.
QB has only so much time to throw the ball. Unless you have a once in the lifetime target at WR then the QB will look average to poor unless he can extend plays like a Mike Vick or now a Patrick Mahomes
Pretty simple.
Football is pretty simple. How long do you have to create separation.
Finally people realize you can create separation before the play even starts.
Not like there are 9-10 players near the ball anymore.
That separation can’t be created after the snap if you can’t block.
QB has only so much time to throw the ball. Unless you have a once in the lifetime target at WR then the QB will look average to poor unless he can extend plays like a Mike Vick or now a Patrick Mahomes
Neal Brown wasn't left a depleted roster for the 1000th time.
Neal Brown pushed out 20 plus players when he came in, from a team that was 4 pts away from playing for the BIG 12 championship.
That team had averaged 8 wins the last five seasons--they didn't just suddenly forget how to play football.
People throw out bogus statements like DH could only score 17 pts against Syracuse--leaving out that DH had about a week and a half to prepare for that game minus his starting QB and multiple other major offensive and defensive players. Or that Syracuse was a top 15 team at the time. DH's QB had about a 2 partial game over 2 years experience and hadn't played virtually all that season.
These things matter.
Neal Brown has had years now to bring in who he wants, including all the QBs he has started. The best players on his roster aren't the ones he brought in, but the ones that were left over from the previous staff on both O and D.
Time to quit making excuses and coach WVU to wins. Brown has to stand on his own two feet. It didn't take Campbell years and years to get ISU going and he didn't walk into a loaded roster himself.
Neal Brown pushed out 20 plus players when he came in, from a team that was 4 pts away from playing for the BIG 12 championship.
That team had averaged 8 wins the last five seasons--they didn't just suddenly forget how to play football.
People throw out bogus statements like DH could only score 17 pts against Syracuse--leaving out that DH had about a week and a half to prepare for that game minus his starting QB and multiple other major offensive and defensive players. Or that Syracuse was a top 15 team at the time. DH's QB had about a 2 partial game over 2 years experience and hadn't played virtually all that season.
These things matter.
Neal Brown has had years now to bring in who he wants, including all the QBs he has started. The best players on his roster aren't the ones he brought in, but the ones that were left over from the previous staff on both O and D.
Time to quit making excuses and coach WVU to wins. Brown has to stand on his own two feet. It didn't take Campbell years and years to get ISU going and he didn't walk into a loaded roster himself.
Offensive Line..::
Not too hard to see.
WVU isn’t totally a B1G power spread team. A team like Iowa State really looks like one
Even with that you still need the ability to control the LOS. That offensive staff can make adjustments to move the ball but only thing that can work everytime no matter where you are on the field is pushing people off the LOS and getting those blocks downfield by big WRs/TEs
Goes back to what Neal Brown said yesterday
Red zone offense. Finishing drives. Not settling for FGs
Not too hard to see.
WVU isn’t totally a B1G power spread team. A team like Iowa State really looks like one
Even with that you still need the ability to control the LOS. That offensive staff can make adjustments to move the ball but only thing that can work everytime no matter where you are on the field is pushing people off the LOS and getting those blocks downfield by big WRs/TEs
Goes back to what Neal Brown said yesterday
Red zone offense. Finishing drives. Not settling for FGs
You would like to but I don't swing your way. Perhaps the one that gave you a like for this comment likes being
bottoms up.
You're so full of **** your eyes are closed.
Campbell had an NFL RB, previous starting QB and a great offensive line. Had an entire defense that was young and returning.
The foundation was already set for Campbell.
Know your **** before posting.
Neal Brown has been here 2 years only 22 games. Neal had 1 returning offensive line player returning no QB only 2 wideouts. 4 of the 20 that left were kicked of the team for academic fraud. Another liked carrying guns on high school property. One lineman that was 5th year senior transfer with his wife. The other also a 5th year guy went to Okie light.
NB started 7 freshman on defense.
There was no talent on that team. Your boy had WVU ranked in the 80's for recruits.
In 2 years Brown has us top 20 in recruiting.
1. Will Grier, Greg Jennings, David Sills, Trevon Wesco, David Long, Kenny Robinson, Marcus Simms, Yodney Cajuste,Matt Jones, Josh Sills, Dravon Askew-Henry, Kenny Bigelow, Ezekiel Rose, ALL GONE in the Spring of 2019.
2. Top 4-7 players in 2015, 2016, & 2017 classes ALL left before Spring Ball of 2019.
2015: Tyrek Cole Jovon Durante David Sills Matt Jones David Long Adam Shuler Gary Jennings
2016: Brendan Ferns Steven Smothers Marcus Simms Josh Sills Trevon Wesco
2017 Tevin Bush(Fall of 2019) Reggie Roberson Kenny Robinson Lamonte McDougle
Thats not including the Rasul Douglas JUCO types either.... Subtract those players from those classes, many of which are the highest rated players in their class....
If you have a recruiting class originally ranked 45, lose the top 4-5 best players and think that class+team is the same, esp 3..... 3 YEARS in a row. Its hilarious to suggest it wasnt a depleted roster..
2. Top 4-7 players in 2015, 2016, & 2017 classes ALL left before Spring Ball of 2019.
2015: Tyrek Cole Jovon Durante David Sills Matt Jones David Long Adam Shuler Gary Jennings
2016: Brendan Ferns Steven Smothers Marcus Simms Josh Sills Trevon Wesco
2017 Tevin Bush(Fall of 2019) Reggie Roberson Kenny Robinson Lamonte McDougle
Thats not including the Rasul Douglas JUCO types either.... Subtract those players from those classes, many of which are the highest rated players in their class....
If you have a recruiting class originally ranked 45, lose the top 4-5 best players and think that class+team is the same, esp 3..... 3 YEARS in a row. Its hilarious to suggest it wasnt a depleted roster..
There is no such thing as a consistent roster anymore with the rapidly expanding transfer mania. What Huggs says about basketball applies to the high profile football recruits as well. Your roster is now a year to year thing with a new set of characters. Keeping players is the big issue now. With 22 players departing off of the team from last year to this year...NB hasn't been doing well. College recruiting discussions are a waste of time.
If im a Junior or Senior and im getting replaced by a Fresh or Soph, Id transfer too. Other then the D Miller types who chase the short money, which is out of NB's control, older players transferring is a sign they are being replaced by younger more talented players with higher upside. There initially may not be a large difference, but by playing them early, organically increases their upside for when they are an upperclassmen.
If rosters are year to year, then DH should have recruited to ensure there would not be such an astronomically high level of talent & experience decline from year to year.
Then you're what's wrong with college sports today. The I deserve it mentality.
IF YOU WANT TO KNOW IF THEY ARE LEAVING TO MOVE UP OR SIDEWAYS OR DOWN IT'S EASY. IF THEY GO FROM 2ND TEAM WVU TO 3RD TEAM ALABAMA OR OKLAHOMA IT'S BECAUSE THE PLAYER CAN'T HACK IT. IF THEY GOT FROM WVU TO DIVISION II IT'S BECAUSE THEY WANT MORE PLAYING TIME. THE NUMBERS DON'T LIE.
Never thought that it was the numbers being untruthful when you speak.
There’s nothing special about coaching players to catch a pass. You either can catch or you can’t.
I agree with most of what you said. It usually takes a coach 4-5 yrs to build a program to be a perrennial top 25 program. Many boosters of traditional blue bloods cannot seem to understand that. Don't care who you are. Look at Texas, their boosters think a coach can come in and **** a top 10 team.
DH relied on Jucos. At least 1/3 of his classes were Juco transfers coming in here most of his years and his teams did seem undisciplined at times. The cupboard was bare when he bailed. He knew he'd be fired after the 19 year with a bad season.
I didn't expect NB to have a PW/SS style of offense. But at least move the ball consistently. I like NB. But he needs to find a decent solid QB. Doege is not one. He makes you appreciate Skylar Howard. He does his best and I'm pulling for him. About the upperclassmen transferring when beat out by a frosh/soph I understand. But 2 starters transferring on D? It does make one wonder. Maybe they don't like the new DC. Who knows?
Ask Barry Switzer how the Beck 40+ yard draw play sealed the Oklahoma (early 80’s) win or how the draw play at the end of the State Penn - Joe lawless Paterno 88 halftime butt kicking looked.
We definitely need a very good QB to compete in the B12. It would help if the WR's could catch too. The fact that they didnt even improve at it kind of points to some coaching tho imo.
I like Brown. I dont know if he will pan out but I hope he does. The Vic Koenning thing hurt pretty bad though. Dude had the best DC resume we may have ever had here and he was ran out due to social justice and fake outrage. A sacrificial lamb to appease the media and their wimpy liberal narrative. I think that set the program back.
I like Brown. I dont know if he will pan out but I hope he does. The Vic Koenning thing hurt pretty bad though. Dude had the best DC resume we may have ever had here and he was ran out due to social justice and fake outrage. A sacrificial lamb to appease the media and their wimpy liberal narrative. I think that set the program back.
I think some of Doege's poor performance is due to the players around him not executing at times. With an improved OL & WR's who dont seem to wash their hands in butter before games, Doege automatically takes a few steps forward when the players around him play better.
That said, and even if Doege himself takes a few steps forward this offseason with individual improvement, he's still a "Game Manager" type of QB. There are things he can and will probably improve on this year, but in the end, there are some things that will never change within his skillset. We def have a win ceiling with him under center, that said, Im really pulling for him. I hope he shocks the world...
There are times when he does something you just want to scream at the TV, like his fumble vs Army or missing the easy/average/routine throw.
I do think Doege wil take a pretty healthy step forward this year, some of that will be individual improvement, some of it will be the players around him executing at a higher level. So we should at least begin to see some of the offensive issue reduce this year...
With regard to Smith & Miller, I dont think there was anything Brown could have done for Miller to not transfer. I think Smith was out before the season ended, probably wanting to follow Addea, but Miller was obviously contacted/recruited/paid by Auburn. Some players are simply going to chase the short money, and theres nothing you can do to stop it, unless we as program supporters come together and form entities that can match that game.
Historically, it takes a coach 5 years to build a program, when you look back at programs that improved with a new regime. Regardless of how they were performing or recruiting beforehand.
Whats hilarious, are these trolls here that think Brown did not inherit a completely depleted roster. If your first year coaching, you have one of the youngest teams in D1, and the past 4 recruiting classes(with exception to the freshmen class) is ranked 60+. When you actually look at the roster NB was handed, then go check the recruiting on all those players, its probably the worst WVU roster in the past 25+ years, and probably by a large margin.
Considering his starting point, which was far below the average WVU talent & experience, NB deserves an extra year or two just to make up for just how bad the program was when he arrived. Meaning if it takes coaches 5 years historically, Ill give him 6 years, AS LONG AS IMPROVEMENTS ARE IDENTIFIABLE.
WVU is a development program that recruits at a lower level(historically), but through quality development, player growth, & scheme, we typically do well(above average) when we have healthy amount of players on the field that are Juniors & Seniors. We need strong upperclassmen numbers to seriously compete.
RedShirt
Fresh
Soph
Jun
Sen
So for most players that are recruited, aside from the Mesidor or Frasier types, you need the rest of players recruited in every class to mature & develop for 3 years before they begin to really make an impact on the field.
3 Years going into the 4th..
Now, hopefully within the first 3 years the current staff is also finding ways to improve recruiting every year, and not needing to first show significant results on the field before they can go from 45 Rankings to 20-25 Rankings. Brown is doing a Fantastic job here, which speaks to his quality that he's been able to make such leaps forward in recruiting without really winning a major bowl game or conference game..
Now you need 1-2 years to improve recruiting, but Brown is ahead of the game here, and I think is one of the major reasons many players are transferring, as they are being replaced by younger players with higher upside, or at least not being handed "their" position automatically and splitting considerable reps.
Keep in mind, Juniors are the first recruiting class of the new staff. 2019 was NOT Browns true first class. 2020 was...
So, now we are looking at 4 years going into the 5th...
The issue I forsee:
QB's no matter how good, typically need at least 1 full season to become a true "Leader", to find their......fluidity & timing on the field..
Next year will be Browns 4th year, however most likely it will be Greene, Crowder, or Machiol 1st year starting, whichever one wins the job. So while the talent around them may be better & more experienced, you are still heading into the 4th year with 1st year starter...
For this reason, the level of yearly "progress" may not be as identifiable next year for this reason. Most QB's dont start their first year and amaze... They need some time before they really shine..
So, this is Why I personally think we will take a step forward this year, which may not be easily identified simply from a wins & losses perspective. 11 P5 opponents, and most BIG12 teams did not lose much last year either so the conference as a whole is going to be much better. So while we are taking a step forward, so are many other teams in the BIG12.
Also, While we would have likely beat Maryland last year, they was an extremely young team last year, now they are a year older, and very talented, as Loxley has been recruiting very well. So its going to be a tough game.
So while we may win 7-8 regular season games this year, it'll be against a very tough schedule.
Next year however, I think we start a little slow, we progress and improve as the season goes on though as our new QB finds his timing, and we have another 7-8 regular season win total.
5th year- This is when we take a significant step forward and have a 10+ win season. The talent around our QB is now a higher level & had time to gain experience, and our QB has 1 full season under his belt and takes a significant step forward in his second year leading the offense.
The 5th year is when I think it all comes together for Brown. I think the 5th year is the year when it ignites an exponential jump forward in consistent competition. As now these 2021 & 2022 classes have had some time to develop and become impactful players on the field. This is the year where we dont look back, where we are regularly in the conversation to compete for the BIG12 title every other year, with a "down" year still producing 8-10 wins.
I think some of Doege's poor performance is due to the players around him not executing at times. With an improved OL & WR's who dont seem to wash their hands in butter before games, Doege automatically takes a few steps forward when the players around him play better.
That said, and even if Doege himself takes a few steps forward this offseason with individual improvement, he's still a "Game Manager" type of QB. There are things he can and will probably improve on this year, but in the end, there are some things that will never change within his skillset. We def have a win ceiling with him under center, that said, Im really pulling for him. I hope he shocks the world...
There are times when he does something you just want to scream at the TV, like his fumble vs Army or missing the easy/average/routine throw.
I do think Doege wil take a pretty healthy step forward this year, some of that will be individual improvement, some of it will be the players around him executing at a higher level. So we should at least begin to see some of the offensive issue reduce this year...
With regard to Smith & Miller, I dont think there was anything Brown could have done for Miller to not transfer. I think Smith was out before the season ended, probably wanting to follow Addea, but Miller was obviously contacted/recruited/paid by Auburn. Some players are simply going to chase the short money, and theres nothing you can do to stop it, unless we as program supporters come together and form entities that can match that game.
Historically, it takes a coach 5 years to build a program, when you look back at programs that improved with a new regime. Regardless of how they were performing or recruiting beforehand.
Whats hilarious, are these trolls here that think Brown did not inherit a completely depleted roster. If your first year coaching, you have one of the youngest teams in D1, and the past 4 recruiting classes(with exception to the freshmen class) is ranked 60+. When you actually look at the roster NB was handed, then go check the recruiting on all those players, its probably the worst WVU roster in the past 25+ years, and probably by a large margin.
Considering his starting point, which was far below the average WVU talent & experience, NB deserves an extra year or two just to make up for just how bad the program was when he arrived. Meaning if it takes coaches 5 years historically, Ill give him 6 years, AS LONG AS IMPROVEMENTS ARE IDENTIFIABLE.
WVU is a development program that recruits at a lower level(historically), but through quality development, player growth, & scheme, we typically do well(above average) when we have healthy amount of players on the field that are Juniors & Seniors. We need strong upperclassmen numbers to seriously compete.
RedShirt
Fresh
Soph
Jun
Sen
So for most players that are recruited, aside from the Mesidor or Frasier types, you need the rest of players recruited in every class to mature & develop for 3 years before they begin to really make an impact on the field.
3 Years going into the 4th..
Now, hopefully within the first 3 years the current staff is also finding ways to improve recruiting every year, and not needing to first show significant results on the field before they can go from 45 Rankings to 20-25 Rankings. Brown is doing a Fantastic job here, which speaks to his quality that he's been able to make such leaps forward in recruiting without really winning a major bowl game or conference game..
Now you need 1-2 years to improve recruiting, but Brown is ahead of the game here, and I think is one of the major reasons many players are transferring, as they are being replaced by younger players with higher upside, or at least not being handed "their" position automatically and splitting considerable reps.
Keep in mind, Juniors are the first recruiting class of the new staff. 2019 was NOT Browns true first class. 2020 was...
So, now we are looking at 4 years going into the 5th...
The issue I forsee:
QB's no matter how good, typically need at least 1 full season to become a true "Leader", to find their......fluidity & timing on the field..
Next year will be Browns 4th year, however most likely it will be Greene, Crowder, or Machiol 1st year starting, whichever one wins the job. So while the talent around them may be better & more experienced, you are still heading into the 4th year with 1st year starter...
For this reason, the level of yearly "progress" may not be as identifiable next year for this reason. Most QB's dont start their first year and amaze... They need some time before they really shine..
So, this is Why I personally think we will take a step forward this year, which may not be easily identified simply from a wins & losses perspective. 11 P5 opponents, and most BIG12 teams did not lose much last year either so the conference as a whole is going to be much better. So while we are taking a step forward, so are many other teams in the BIG12.
Also, While we would have likely beat Maryland last year, they was an extremely young team last year, now they are a year older, and very talented, as Loxley has been recruiting very well. So its going to be a tough game.
So while we may win 7-8 regular season games this year, it'll be against a very tough schedule.
Next year however, I think we start a little slow, we progress and improve as the season goes on though as our new QB finds his timing, and we have another 7-8 regular season win total.
5th year- This is when we take a significant step forward and have a 10+ win season. The talent around our QB is now a higher level & had time to gain experience, and our QB has 1 full season under his belt and takes a significant step forward in his second year leading the offense.
The 5th year is when I think it all comes together for Brown. I think the 5th year is the year when it ignites an exponential jump forward in consistent competition. As now these 2021 & 2022 classes have had some time to develop and become impactful players on the field. This is the year where we dont look back, where we are regularly in the conversation to compete for the BIG12 title every other year, with a "down" year still producing 8-10 wins.
I THINK YOU'RE OPTIMISTIC, BUT I LIKE THAT. AGAIN, I GO BY PERFORMANCE. NEAL MUST HAVE A WINNING SEASON IN 2021 OR IT WILL BE TROUBLING, NO MATTER THE REASON. NO ONE EXCEPT ROD AMONG RECENT COACHES GOT WVU TO THE CUSP OF PLAYING FOR THE NATIONAL TITLE. AND NO ONE EXCEPT DOC SPEARS IN 1922 HAD A SEASON WITHOUT A LOSS. IF NEAL CAN ACHIEVE WHAT ONLY ROD AND DOC DID, THEN WE SHOULD EMPTY THE MONEY VAULT TO KEEP HIM. IF HE FADES OR SUCCEEDS AND LEAVES THEN IT'S NORMAL IN WVU'S HISTORY. MEANWHILE, I WILL JUST ENJOY THE VICTORIES AND ENDURE THE LOSSES. AS I HAVE FOR 80 YEARS!!!!
Great post. Overall I like the direction of recruiting. It all starts on the line. Both sides.
Yes, Im optimistic, but its centered in logical justification.
1. Tho I understand a 5 win season is extremely disappointing for us under normal conditions/years, I think Brown deserved a coach of the year award for getting that 2019 roster to 5 wins.
2. Also understanding if COVID doesnt effect our season, last year was likely a 8 win season in year two, still with a very young & below average talent roster.
3. Recruiting Progression from 2020, 2021, 2022. Each year is another level higher from a talent acquisition perspective.
There are logical reasons to be optimistic, the public sentiment is also improving on SM among recruits & analyst. I agree, we def have a winning season this year, and we def see some progress on the field. That said, I dont think we see that massive leap forward until 2023 season(Brown's 5th year). I think thats when some of the roster & experience comes together/aligned.
You also have to understand WVU is not a BlueBlood. If we hired hypotheticaly the best HC to ever live, what would be our ceiling? Would Saban win a NC here? Maybe, but I dont think it would be a yearly venture. I think a realistic goal for WVU is to compete for a BIG12 title 1 in 3 years. With a "down" year still producing 8-9 maybe 10 wins(sometimes).
You may have some "up" years where its a 10-11 Win season, others we may make the CFP and hit 12+ wins, but thats not every "up" year. It'll only happen with the perfect alignment of talent, experience, etc, which may be every 6 years.
Realistically, under optimal conditions & staff, what is the frequency we can seriously compete for BIG12 and make a 12 team CFP?
DH was a 1 in 8 year coach. I think Brown is far better(personal opinion). I think a great coach could get us to a 1 in 3 year type of level. with a "down" year still producing more wins then our historical avg( 7 wins).
8-10 Wins = Down year
10+ Wins = Up year
We'll see where Brown leads us. My point, is we just need to give him ample time to build and not be impatient, as the level of change needed when he was hired was abnormally high, compared to a normal 7 win roster.
I AGREE THAT IMPATIENCE IS EVERY FAN'S WORST FAULT. IT'S ALWAYS A BATTLE BETWEEN OPTIMISTISM AND REALITY FOR EVERY SCHOOL AND EVERY FAN. THAT'S WHY I JUST GO BY PERFORMANCE ON THE FIELD. EVERYTHING IS JUST RATTLING OUR BRAINS AND FLAPPING OUT GUMS WAITING FOR BASEBALL SEASON TO GET OUT OF THE WAY FOR WVU FOOTBALL AND BASKETBALL TO BRIGHTEN OUR LIVES. BRING ON THE DAMN TERPS AND LET'S GET THIS SHOW ON THE ROAD.
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