lol Notre Dame
- Thread starter NJcatsfan_rivals139741
- Start date
Like it or not, they put themselves in position to get into the CFPs. Who would you have put in instead? Cincinnati was not going to get the nod. So did you want to see another SEC team like A&M or Florida or OK out of Big12? Basically those were the only other viable choices.
Well, they also have the best talent around them as well
Entitled to what?
I too am a big fan of ND the school. Born to ND parents. Married a ND girl. And sent 2 of my sons there. One of my favorite places to visit. ND football, on the other hand, is a different story. Since graduating from NU I have been back to TSISB more than a dozen times for games with the family. Sat by myself - or with my wife for ND vs NU games - in the visitors section every time. My family respects the fact that true NU fans are incapable of wishing anything good on ND football.
GOUNUII
I think what he meant is that the BIG is a gauntlet that is very difficult to get through. ACC is Clemson and not nearly as much else for the rest of the conference. Not saying that Clemson is not a top program. Just that the task of getting through the conference is not as difficult. One thing to have to get up for a tough game every week and another to have just a couple tough games on the schedule
My dad is an ND grad. But I have hated them forever. Very satisfying result when we went there a few years back and left with the victory
Who do you guys think could have gone to Arlington yesterday and not gotten blown out?
Clemson is the best win any team has in the country and they have no more or worse losses than anyone else in the country.
It’s fine to dislike Notre Dame but they deserved to be there yesterday.
Clemson is the best win any team has in the country and they have no more or worse losses than anyone else in the country.
It’s fine to dislike Notre Dame but they deserved to be there yesterday.
If we had beaten Michigan State then there is an extremely compelling case. We didn’t. There is no way to argue that losing to Clemson is a worse resume than losing to Ohio state and Michigan state.
I don't think that's the right question to ask. I think a team that didn't just get blown out by another playoff contender two weeks ago deserved that chance more than ND did.
When you put a one loss team in generally the team that had the best loss gets in. Losing to the number 2 team in the country was a better loss than every other one loss team. Couple that with a win over a playoff team and it’s a very easy decision.
A blowout loss can't be a "best loss". It means you got off the bus, not much more than that. ND was not competitive in that game. And that "win over a playoff team" had a giant asterisk next to it. If, e.g., NU had the same resume, do you think we would have been in the playoffs? Doubtful to me. They got the bid because they're Notre Dame.
My little sister went to nd. I visited campus in 91 when I was a grad student at Purdue. Picked up her and a 3 of her friends/drove them back to my parents for Thanksgiving weekend. I thought nd was full of nice students/people. Very religious denizens. People there were just oozing with school spirit and loved their sports teams. Much like me with NU. I turned down nd for college/undergrad myself. Glad I did- Nu was perfect for me. But I have no ill-will for nd. Other than of course, when we play them or compete for players.
okay, so we pick A&M who got blown out by a cfp contender but earlier in the season? That makes more sense than picking the team with the best win in the country and a similar loss?
cmon, that’s intellectually disingenuous.
ND schedule is not measurably worse than a B1G West schedule. Other than NU, who often has one or more dik-trip non con games, you get a couple of non con cupcakes, perhaps one P5 non con. Then you are going to get one or two weak in conf games at least.
So, if you are, say, Ped State, you know you will likely lose to dOSU, but could otherwise run the table in a good year.
I don't see any problem with them as #4 this year, it's just that there is a gulf after #3
So, if you are, say, Ped State, you know you will likely lose to dOSU, but could otherwise run the table in a good year.
I don't see any problem with them as #4 this year, it's just that there is a gulf after #3
Further to my point, ND's 2021 schedule is darn good:
@FSU
Toledo
Purdue
@Wisconsin
Cincy
@VaTech
USC
UNC
Navy
@UVA
GaTech
@Stanford
The ND-Cincy game will be really interesting to watch.
The NU schedule is:
MSU
Indiana State
@Duke.
Ohio U
Io_a
@UN-L
Minny
@Wisky
@Michigan
Rutgers
Purdue
@Illinois
2022 ND schedule
Ohio St
Marshall
Cal
North Carolina
Stanford
UNLV
Clemson
Navy
USC
Boston College
Syracuse
2023 ND schedule
We are talking what got them there and not what happened in that game. As much as I despise ND, They were the team that deserved to go more than anyone else for that 4th spot. Their only loss was to a playoff team and they had beaten that same team. There schedule was pretty solid as well. Way back when they were actually winning championships they did it with schedules that only had a couple of descent teams and the others little sisters of the poor, but recently their schedules have been pretty solid.
As far as if NU had had a similar schedule, we would have had a good shot at going (this year that would have required us to beat MSU and dOSU. Had we won those games, we would ahve been there. To have an equivalent schedule, we would have had to play them twice, once during the season (winning) and a second time in the Championship game (losing) We also would have had to play a season of more than 6 games but had we done all of that, we would have had a descent shot
Someone had to have the four spot and ND had a better resume than the other contenders for the spot. I hate ND but in this case have to give them the nod
Back in the day when they were winning championships, they did it by having a schedule of a couple descent opponents and the rest little sisters of the poor (including NU) But in recent years, their schedule has been pretty solid because as an "independent" the only way they can get in the playoffs these days is with a solid schedule.
I hate ND and the way they have milked the system (including slotting into NY6 bowls, their own tv contract and no spitting of bowl revenues) But the reality is that this year they deserved to be there more than any of the other teams vying for the spot
ND has gotten preferred treatment in the past and it is pretty disgusting. That said, this year, they deserved to be there. The top three teams were a step above for sure but there really wasn't a better resume for that 4th spot
But A&M didn't have that best win in the country and they did have that big loss. Look, if ND didn't have that win, they would not have gone. But they did and even though Clemson did not have Lawrence for that game, they still had a lot of weapons and would still have beaten most teams
Go to eight teams in the playoff and pick the five P5 champions so you don't worry about who had the worst loss or best win among them. Oklahoma looked pretty solid by the end of the year. Then pick the top Group of Five team, plus two-top ranked at-large. Notre Dame gets in this year under that criteria with little controversy.
I respect your right to an opinion. But it’s only that, an opinion, not “the reality.” There are a number of people on this board who have valid opinions who disagree.
I agree with you. That’s the whole point I’m making.
No matter how much you like or dislike Notre Dame, there’s no logical way to argue that they didn’t deserve that fourth spot. The results of their game against Bama don’t change that.
If we look at valid options for that last spot we have:
Notre Dame
Texas A&M
Cincinnati
if we compare resumes:
Best Win:
Notre Dame 2) Clemson
A&M: 7) Florida
Cincinnati: 24) Tulsa
Worst Loss:
Notre Dame: 2) Clemson (by 24)
A&M: 1) Alabama (by 28)
Cincinnati: none
other ranked opponents:
Notre Dame: 13) North Carolina (win by 14)
A&M: none
Cincinnati: None
So unless we are prepared to say that winning at home against #2, away against #13 and a neutral loss is worse than a home win against number 7 and a road loss against #1, then your opinion is based in emotion rather than objective analysis.
The difference between a neutral loss to number 2 and a road loss to number one is splitting hairs. Therefore if we look at wins, clearly beating # 2 is better than beating #7. Then additionally you have a road win for ND against a top 15 team.
It’s really not particularly close.
Certainly you are entitled to your opinion, but that doesn’t liberate you from the possibility of having a flat out bad opinion.
There are a number of data points that make it not just my opinion. I hate to support ND in anything and in earlier years, I would agree that ND did not belong. But this year, like it or not, they did.
And one can pretty easily argue that FL was not worthy of anything close to a 7 ranking after being blown out by an unranked LSU.
They were upset, but not blown out by LSU (unless you consider a three-point loss a blowout). They were blown out by Oklahoma.