Locked:Ben Carver Is An Dubmass
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Also circle jerked everyone in the room by speaking out against discrimination, then went ahead and voted to allow it. ******* it, Starkville.
These 5 jackasses are the same people who will vote yes to have the Bible as the official book of Mississippi and then claim people like me worship the devil because we disagree with it.
I don't want to live in Rainbow Land and you can't make me!!!!**
These 5 jackasses are the same people who will vote yes to have the Bible as the official book of Mississippi and then claim people like me worship the devil because we disagree with it.
I don't want to live in Rainbow Land and you can't make me!!!!**
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I'm sorry for any jerks that have driven people out of the church and out of religion. Trust me, I understand. If it were not for the fact that I believe that God was there for me in a very difficult time in my life, I probably would have gotten out of the church myself, but I have come to love church, despite all of its weaknesses.
I agree. The church is only as perfect as its members. You could say the same for all religion I guess.
We (they) had a chance to do something very special. It is a shame that got taken from us.
It also disallows businesses from refusing service on the grounds of homosexuality.
Has there been any public incidents? Not that anyone is aware of. But Wiseman put the ordinance into effect (in addition to being the right thing to do) as a way to drum up business. It was a postcard to all the enlightened folks in the world that Starkville wants to do business. It was a token of good gesture towards national businesses who might not agree with homosexuality either but don't want to come to Mississippi because of its past. The first things major corporations look at when deciding whether to open a factory or plant is social structure of the surrounding area, namely what percentage of kids go to private school. This was a booster.... On top of doing the same thing! This **** is going to be moot in a year anyway when SCOTUS makes it law.
This was a chance for us to get ahead of the game and to stop being the butt of the joke. Carver & Co. just made it worse than if we weren't trying to be proactive in the first place.
Most likely right. Mississippi, like my state, is an "at will" state, which basically means I can fire you because you changed your haircolor or you wear green pants, no questions asked.
That makes this law largely symbolic, unless an employer actually says "you're fired because you're gay."
At that point I'm sure there would be no shortage of lawyers willing to take that one all the way to DC, laws or no laws.
It's symbolic, you're right, but it does carry weight. Someone from the university spoke tonight about how Mississippi's civil rights issues continue to be a hard selling point for highly qualified candidates at MSU. Imagine how far being the most progressive city in the state could help MSU in a quality of education and experience standpoint.
The Jesus part has been debunked. He wouldn't be for a discimination policy in any form. The non-BS story is that those in opposition think a flood of gays will move in next door if Starkville opens its doors.
The Jesus part has been debunked. He wouldn't be for a discimination policy in any form. The non-BS story is that those in opposition think a flood of gays will move in next door if Starkville opens its doors.
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If anyone is spending any amount of time worrying about this stuff, then they must have some worry free lives they are living. While I dont care to see it mainstreamed, I could care less if you like to sniff another guys rear end, but thinking that a silly "symbolic" law will put an end to discrimination is akin to thinking that boosters wont pay players because the NCAA says they cannot. In the end, were talking about Starkville, outside of this and a few other message boards, no one knows what is going on there and no one really cares.
You sound like a highly enlightened fellow.
I'm so glad that you decided to contribute to this thread in a meaningful way.
I'm so glad that you decided to contribute to this thread in a meaningful way.
***Blank Stare*** So you obviously have no idea how laws work. Good to know.
Now granted I doubt dealing with the city would be quite as painful as dealing with the EEOC, but the measure you describe (I'm taking your description at face value; I haven't looked at it) would immediately add a cost to every business in the city with a homosexual employee that wasn't a stellar employee. If you have a bad employee, you shouldn't have to take into account the monetary costs of dealing with a meritless discrimination claim and any resultant increased severance package you have to pay to make it go away. You should just be able to fire them.
So, I guess all bad employees are gay?****
Please. You get discrimination/wrongful termination claims all the time when firing a worthless employee, so this isn't the issue. What is the issue, is someone firing an employee strictly because they are gay, despite the fact they are a good employee.
You're just wrong here. You rarely get discrimination/wrongful termination claims for firing a worthless employee. But when you are dealing with a member of a protected class, it happens a lot more often and changes the nature of employment for those employees.
A little clarification
The equality resolution doesn't actually go as far as has been stated. This is a city policy statement not an ordinance. It has no legal bearing. It is merely affirms that it is the position of Starkville city government that race, gender, religious affiliation, marital status, sexual orientation, or sexual identity carry no weight in city employment. That means it's only applicable to employees of the city government. And because it's a policy and not an ordinance it doesn't actually bar the city from firing employees simply for being gay. It certainly does not make it the policy of any business within the city limits.
As has been pointed out, Mississippi is an "at will" state. It was not stated publicly but all indications are the former CAO was fired by this board of aldermen simply because she is gay. She was an excellent CAO and had been consistently cited by currently seated aldermen as an exemplary employee in performance evaluations. No reasoning by any alderman voting in the affirmative was offered for her termination. Ben Carver stated he had prayed about it.
The equality resolution doesn't actually go as far as has been stated. This is a city policy statement not an ordinance. It has no legal bearing. It is merely affirms that it is the position of Starkville city government that race, gender, religious affiliation, marital status, sexual orientation, or sexual identity carry no weight in city employment. That means it's only applicable to employees of the city government. And because it's a policy and not an ordinance it doesn't actually bar the city from firing employees simply for being gay. It certainly does not make it the policy of any business within the city limits.
As has been pointed out, Mississippi is an "at will" state. It was not stated publicly but all indications are the former CAO was fired by this board of aldermen simply because she is gay. She was an excellent CAO and had been consistently cited by currently seated aldermen as an exemplary employee in performance evaluations. No reasoning by any alderman voting in the affirmative was offered for her termination. Ben Carver stated he had prayed about it.
I'm sure you a book of "stats" to back that up, right?
So, in this case, minorities and other protected classes make up the majority of wrongful firing claims? Not because they're ****** people, but because they are minorities/protected class? A middle-aged white woman can't do this for some reason? Does religious affiliation, or lack there of, fall in the "protected class" as well? My boss finds out I don't go to church, or I go to the wrong church; is that a fireable offense?
Yeah, I remember that, but then he had the audacity to say her termination was about something else.
Just for the record (such as it is)...
Not all Starkville aldermen are created equal. In addition to the mayor, there are at least a couple who are good, intelligent people trying to do the right thing for Starkville. They are walking into some category 5 idiot headwinds, though.
Not all Starkville aldermen are created equal. In addition to the mayor, there are at least a couple who are good, intelligent people trying to do the right thing for Starkville. They are walking into some category 5 idiot headwinds, though.
Well the EEOC does. Minorities and protected classes make up the vast majority of wrongful firing claims because that's the way the law works. Just FYI, women are a protected class, so a middle-aged white woman can make the same claims, but they don't at the same rate for whatever reason. Generally, a little over a third of EEOC charges involve claims of race discrimination (around 35-36% depending on the year you look at) while under a third (between 29 and 31% depending on year) involve claims of sex discrimination. These charges can contain more than one claim, so many of the charges will involve claims of sex and race discrimination.
Compare that to people who aren't a protected class, but still have protections for firing for certain reasons, like religious discrimination, which are included in about 2-4% of EEOC charges.
These are EEOC complaints and depending on the state, I assume there are opportunities to make state claims without involving the EEOC, but I don't have any experience with those and to my knowledge, they are rare to the extent they happen at all. But maybe some states have more employee favorable laws such taht plaintiffs prefer to go through the state system rather than federal.
Not only that, but those darned gays may try to turn their kid gay.
Newsflash to the morons, your child's sexuality is already determined, and nothing you or the homosexual community can do will change it one way or another.
-Signed SPS's resident **********
It is governments job to protect and provide equal rights and representation under the law even to minorities unless said equal rights or representation pose a viable harm to others. It is furthermore the job of government to enact said legislations even though they may be extremely unpopular with the majorities wishes so to protect the rights of an oppressed minority. The Civil Rights Act is a classic example of this. Had this been left up to individual states or even a vote of the populace we would probably still be living under Jim Crow laws.
It is NOT governments job to pass or enact legislation based solely upon the elected officials personal religious beliefs. This is where the line between separation of Church and State begins to get blurred. Our form of government was founded upon morals found in the Bible, and elsewhere, but was NOT founded upon the Bible itself. This is the line the Christian right is attempting to blur.
What I fear is going to happen in this country is that we will wind up with a Christian version of what the middle east has become. After that then the different factions of Christianity will begin fighting among themselves to determine who's version, or interpretation, of the Bible gets to call the shots.
From 20 mile circle of where anyone of us sit right now you can probably list a few dozen Christian churches with an equal amount of different beliefs or interpretations of the Bible and ways of practicing what we call 'being a good Christian.' Ask yourself how many of those versions could you live under. This is why we need separation of Church and State. This is why we need to resist this effort by the far right to re-write history and furthermore to enact their beliefs upon us through legislation.
Here Endeth the Lesson.
It is NOT governments job to pass or enact legislation based solely upon the elected officials personal religious beliefs. This is where the line between separation of Church and State begins to get blurred. Our form of government was founded upon morals found in the Bible, and elsewhere, but was NOT founded upon the Bible itself. This is the line the Christian right is attempting to blur.
What I fear is going to happen in this country is that we will wind up with a Christian version of what the middle east has become. After that then the different factions of Christianity will begin fighting among themselves to determine who's version, or interpretation, of the Bible gets to call the shots.
From 20 mile circle of where anyone of us sit right now you can probably list a few dozen Christian churches with an equal amount of different beliefs or interpretations of the Bible and ways of practicing what we call 'being a good Christian.' Ask yourself how many of those versions could you live under. This is why we need separation of Church and State. This is why we need to resist this effort by the far right to re-write history and furthermore to enact their beliefs upon us through legislation.
Here Endeth the Lesson.
Hey maroonmadman, as a pastor, I actually agree with a lot of what you said, although maybe for different reasons. I am bothered by my home state's effort to make the Bible the official book of Mississippi. Don't get me wrong, I want people to read the Bible, but will this make a difference? I doubt it. If anything, it would often do the total opposite. For atheists or Muslims, I think it would drive them further away from picking up a Bible. It would also give to the notion that people are Christians because they live in the Bible belt and they go to church every once in a while. The only thing that creating the Bible as the book of Mississippi will cause many people to boast more, which ironically is against what the Bible teaches.
The one thing that I would disagree with you on is that every politician has a worldview that they govern from. For some, that is Christian, and they can't and shouldn't be excluded from holding office and governing from a Christian worldview. With that being said, I don't know if this Christian made the right decision. Ok, I will quit preaching before this thread gets locked.
The one thing that I would disagree with you on is that every politician has a worldview that they govern from. For some, that is Christian, and they can't and shouldn't be excluded from holding office and governing from a Christian worldview. With that being said, I don't know if this Christian made the right decision. Ok, I will quit preaching before this thread gets locked.
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