Lino Mark

[PSAL_Hoops]

Don't know about the 11 ppg thing. This year, the top 30 scorers in the conference average just under 33 min per game. Pike even played Dylan and Ace less than that. The year w JWill also had Mag over 9ppg, Derek over 8, and nobody even reached 27 minutes a game. Francis at 27.2 leads this year. So much depends on Pikes haphazard rotations. Get back to 2021 when we had Ron, Geo, Paul, Caleb, and Cliff playing 28-35 minutes and you'll have guys put up points. That team had 8 guys avg 10 minutes. Last year 11 guys, this year the 11th is just under 10. We've been lost deciding who to play and when.
If you look at that 32 minute playing #, we have 5 guys over 11 per 32 and another at 10.7

Look I know you like EO, for example, but your simply hoping guys like him can be something they are not. You can’t simply look at paper efficiency metrics and allocate per minute to assess a big. That totally ignores the biggest issue with him on offense which is his inability to field passes cleanly to get those high percentage shots off in the first place. You want it to be our guards’ fault but it’s simply not. It’s not like he had more success with Dylan Harper feeding the post. Why do you think that is? He doesn’t get in position to make dunks, and he doesn’t field other types of passes with the right body position to use his size to easily score over a defender down low. For this reason, he sits often because these shortcomings render him virtually useless as a big on offense.

The same is true for all of our other complimentary pieces too. The guards besides TF are highly inefficient to start. Beyond this - you can’t take a one dimensional guy like Zrno (for example) and assume it we game him 30 min instead of 20 then he’d score double digits. He takes only one type of shot! 14 made 2s all damn season and I don’t care how much more efficient 3s are - if you have no offensive game other than that defending you is easy. If he’s focal point, don’t you think the D is adjusting coverage? Of course they are. Lino Mark at least is showing some recent flashes of being able to do some different things on offense, but his weak shooting is still limiting. Kaden Powers is the worst of the bunch on D and the least efficient. None of them come close to giving us what Tariq does at this juncture - and Bob pointing to a few cherry picking inefficient games is ridiculous. First, he’s drastically more efficient than every other guard on our roster overall which is remarkable given his usage volume. There’s also a reason TF has 8 or 9 twenty plus point games and it’s not only that we have limited options. To be able to have so many games like this, a player needs to either be a dominant Big or as a guard / forward, be able to score in a variety of ways because defenses adjust. Full stop.

 

[jmalik]

Since returning from his back injury, he’s been elite on both ends.

Over his last three games:

• 46 points in 66 minutes
• 17–22 from the field (77%)
• 3–4 from three (75%)
• 9–11 from the line (81.8%)
• 5 steals
• Just 1 turnover

That’s 2.09 points per shot with Per 40 minutes stats of 28 points and 3 steals.

Statistically, this is the most efficient three-game stretch of any player on the team this season.

Should Lino start the rest of the year?

 

[seansherm]

Look I know you like EO, for example, but your simply hoping guys like him can be something they are not. You can’t simply look at paper efficiency metrics and allocate per minute to assess a big. That totally ignores the biggest issue with him on offense which is his inability to field passes cleanly to get those high percentage shots off in the first place. You want it to be our guards’ fault but it’s simply not. It’s not like he had more success with Dylan Harper feeding the post. Why do you think that is? He doesn’t get in position to make dunks, and he doesn’t field other types of passes with the right body position to use his size to easily score over a defender down low. For this reason, he sits often because these shortcomings render him virtually useless as a big on offense.

The same is true for all of our other complimentary pieces too. The guards besides TF are highly inefficient to start. Beyond this - you can’t take a one dimensional guy like Zrno (for example) and assume it we game him 30 min instead of 20 then he’d score double digits. He takes only one type of shot! 14 made 2s all damn season and I don’t care how much more efficient 3s are - if you have no offensive game other than that defending you is easy. If he’s focal point, don’t you think the D is adjusting coverage? Of course they are. Lino Mark at least is showing some recent flashes of being able to do some different things on offense, but his weak shooting is still limiting. Kaden Powers is the worst of the bunch on D and the least efficient. None of them come close to giving us what Tariq does at this juncture - and Bob pointing to a few cherry picking inefficient games is ridiculous. First, he’s drastically more efficient than every other guard on our roster overall which is remarkable given his usage volume. There’s also a reason TF has 8 or 9 twenty plus point games and it’s not only that we have limited options. To be able to have so many games like this, a player needs to either be a dominant Big or as a guard / forward, be able to score in a variety of ways because defenses adjust. Full stop.

Didn't mention anything about EO in this post - my point whenever I made it was that feed him 7 times instead of 4 and he's suddenly just a poorer passing version of MJ on offense.

For the rest, you're wrong. Are you under the assumption that all of these guys do nothing in 10 extra minutes on the floor? Zrno scores 7 a game now in less than 20 per. He's not doing nothing with additional minutes no matter what kind of shots he takes. Darren scores 8.5 in 23 minutes a game, he's ending at 8.5 with another 10 minutes? Pike plays too many guys now, it's why numbers are down from the past. This team scores more now than any of the teams you mention from the past, except LY.

 

[MadRU]

Since returning from his back injury, he’s been elite on both ends.

Over his last three games:

• 46 points in 66 minutes
• 17–22 from the field (77%)
• 3–4 from three (75%)
• 9–11 from the line (81.8%)
• 5 steals
• Just 1 turnover

That’s an absurd 2.09 points per shot with Per 40 minutes stats of 28 points and 3 steals.

Statistically, this is the most efficient three-game stretch of any player on the team this season.

Should Lino start the rest of the year?

Yes I would, but would like more ball distribution and assists from him.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Didn't mention anything about EO in this post - my point whenever I made it was that feed him 7 times instead of 4 and he's suddenly just a poorer passing version of MJ on offense.

For the rest, you're wrong. Are you under the assumption that all of these guys do nothing in 10 extra minutes on the floor? Zrno scores 7 a game now in less than 20 per. He's not doing nothing with additional minutes no matter what kind of shots he takes. Darren scores 8.5 in 23 minutes a game, he's ending at 8.5 with another 10 minutes? Pike plays too many guys now, it's why numbers are down from the past. This team scores more now than any of the teams you mention from the past, except LY.

No - not exactly. What I’m saying is that no matter how many additional minutes Zrno plays, without notably compromised efficiency, he would not be averaging more than 6-7 deep ball attempts per game over the course of a season. There’s no chance he would be able to get that many open perimeter looks off as a main focal point of our offense- nobody would. For perspective, Cam Spencer averaged under 5 three pointers per game for us in 31.5 mpg. Perhaps he’s the best example to clarify my point. As a sharp shooter, the better you shoot, the number of open looks you get per game generally goes down because defenses are focused on denying you space on the perimeter. And Cam’s offensive game was much less limited than Zrno’s. Cam could hit step backs and shot well off the dribble. Zrno to this point hasn’t show these abilities. Zrno also isn’t comfortable putting the ball on the floor. He currently averages only 1.2 two point attempts per game and that includes unintended long twos with foot on the line.

The bottom line is, even if you bumped his 3 point efficiency to 38% on 6 attempts per game (that by the way would mean he’s making 77.5 threes in a 34 game season compared to Cam Spencer’s 71). Nobody else under Pike broke 50 except RHJ had 68 one year. He’d still only be at 6.8 points from those 3s. The rest of his offensive game is non-existent so it still wouldn’t be a given he gets to 10 average. He’s currently attempting 1.2 twos per game and that’s not likely to change all that much from playing more minutes (he’s a catch and shoot scorer and you don’t look to feed that from two point range). Hes currently making 41% of his twos, but let’s assume he bumps that to 50% on modest bumped usage of 2 twos a game - now he’s at 8.8. He’s currently averaging just shy of one made FT a game. To attain your 10 ppg expectation, he’d have to bump that by slightly over 20% (yes - more time on the court, but keeping in mind that he doesn’t put the ball on the floor often which is why he doesn’t go to the line that much).

The bottom line is he’d have to improve pretty dramatically in the off season based on his style of game to become a double digit scorer. You cannot apply your straight up math.

 

[Caliknight]

I really liked Lino from when I met him this offseason. Great kid. I’ll be really bummed if he leaves. To those saying he’s not a great shooter, watch his tape. He’s a freshman. We will miss him when he’s lighting it up somewhere else. I don’t think he likes the cold coming from Orange County. I hope we can convince him to stay.

He’s from LA not Orange Co

 

[Caliknight]

Davis, Mark, Francis, Transfer PG

Assuming we have 3 out of those 4 on the roster next year - the 3rd on the roster needs to cost $0.
Presumably Francis would be a starter and paid as such.
Is Francis the starting PG though?

Money cant be wasted on Davis or Mark (or an end of the bench transfer) as a 3rd PG.

Lesser role must equal lesser pay.
We don't have the luxury for pay bench players.

Dont we have high school recruits coming?

 

[seansherm]

No - not exactly. What I’m saying is that no matter how many additional minutes Zrno plays, without notably compromised efficiency, he would not be averaging more than 6-7 deep ball attempts per game over the course of a season. There’s no chance he would be able to get that many open perimeter looks off as a main focal point of our offense- nobody would. For perspective, Cam Spencer averaged under 5 three pointers per game for us in 31.5 mpg. Perhaps he’s the best example to clarify my point. As a sharp shooter, the better you shoot, the number of open looks you get per game generally goes down because defenses are focused on denying you space on the perimeter. And Cam’s offensive game was much less limited than Zrno’s. Cam could hit step backs and shot well off the dribble. Zrno to this point hasn’t show these abilities. Zrno also isn’t comfortable putting the ball on the floor. He currently averages only 1.2 two point attempts per game and that includes unintended long twos with foot on the line.

The bottom line is, even if you bumped his 3 point efficiency to 38% on 6 attempts per game (that by the way would mean he’s making 77.5 threes in a 34 game season compared to Cam Spencer’s 71). Nobody else under Pike broke 50 except RHJ had 68 one year. He’d only be at 6.8 points He’s currently attempting 1.2 twos per game and that’s not likely to change all that much from playing more minutes (he’s a catch and shoot scorer and you don’t look to feed that from two point range). Hes currently making 41% of his twos, but let’s assume he bumps that to 50% on bumped used of 2 twos a game - now he’s at 8.8. He’s currently averaging just shy of one made FT a game. To attain your 10 ppg expectation, he’d have to bump that by slightly over 20% (yes - more time on the court, but keeping in mind that he doesn’t put the ball on the floor often which is why he doesn’t go to the line that much).

The bottom line is he’d have to improve pretty dramatically in the off season based on his style of game to become a double digit scorer.

Zrno is shooting 38% from three since conference play started on over 5 a game now. Nobody ever suggested he becomes a focal point, or even a number two or compared him to Cam. But if he was playing 32 minutes a game, not 19, I promise he'd be scoring 11 a game, he's at 8.5 in conference now.. That was my only point on your 11ppg comment. PS, Cam took 4.5 three's a game at RU in conference, Zrno already takes more. He's also making 46.4% of his two's since conference play started. Stop worrying about what numbers look like when he first got to America and shot 0-7 against Delaware St, 0-5 against lehigh, and 26% overall in the OOC.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Zrno is shooting 38% from three since conference play started on over 5 a game now. Nobody ever suggested he becomes a focal point, or even a number two or compared him to Cam. But if he was playing 32 minutes a game, not 19, I promise he'd be scoring 11 a game, he's at 8.5 in conference now.. That was my only point on your 11ppg comment. PS, Cam took 4.5 three's a game at RU in conference, Zrno already takes more. He's also making 46.4% of his two's since conference play started. Stop worrying about what numbers look like when he first got to America and shot 0-7 against Delaware St, 0-5 against lehigh, and 26% overall in the OOC.

Your missing the point. You can’t apply linear math assumptions the way you are trying to - especially with a one dimensional scorers like Zrno. Basketball is a game of match ups and adjustments along with defensive prioritizations based on who is on the floor.

The reason Zrno is only playing 23 mpg in conference play vs. 30 is because in some games, he’s not able to get open looks from 3 and unfortunately, he doesn’t help us much on either end outside of his perimeter shooting. If we played him more in the Washington and Minnesota games, for example, applying your linear math logic for his usage in those games (presuming he is instructed to only shoot when he’s open and he’s not someone who can create for himself), his linear shot attempts per minute would go down. He does not attempt many twos because he doesn’t possess the skill set to put the ball on the floor. Only 34 attempts on the whole season (probably under 30 intended as 2s - some with foot on 3 point line).

I should also add that just because he might not be scoring more points in some of those games because he’s well covered and not getting the attempts does not mean he couldn’t be helping us divert attention from someone else (if we had a someone). I’m not arguing there’s never value in playing him in situations where he’s lower usage. I’m just saying I don’t think you can conclude in a vaccum that he’s taking 7 shots per game therefore if he played 7 more minutes on average he’d take 9 instead. That’s flawed - because the minutes he’s not in the game - he’s likely sitting for a reason.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Also Sean - for the sake of using the same logic to defend “your guy” argument could actually be made that EO could be highly effective as a back up, if Pike had the luxury of picking and choosing which match ups to use him in for 12ish mpg. Instead, he is stuck using him as a primary big or going undersized which is the main reason we can’t compete with anyone decent.

I’d argue he would likely still have a 4 ppg average right now on 10-12 mpg against favorable match ups contrary to your math. On the other hand, he would not have 7 ppg if we played him 30 mpg for the same reason.

 

[seansherm]

Your missing the point. You can’t apply linear math assumptions the way you are trying to - especially with a one dimensional scorers like Zrno. Basketball is a game of match ups and adjustments along with defensive prioritizations based on who is on the floor.

The reason Zrno is only playing 23 mpg in conference play vs. 30 is because in some games, he’s not able to get open looks from 3 and unfortunately, he doesn’t help us much on either end outside of his perimeter shooting. If we played him more in the Washington and Minnesota games, for example, applying your linear math logic for his usage in those games (presuming he is instructed to only shoot when he’s open and he’s not someone who can create for himself), his linear shot attempts per minute would go down. He does not attempt many twos because he doesn’t possess the skill set to put the ball on the floor. Only 34 attempts on the whole season (probably under 30 intended as 2s - some with foot on 3 point line).

I should also add that just because he might not be scoring more points in some of those games because he’s well covered and not getting the attempts does not mean he couldn’t be helping us divert attention from someone else (if we had a someone). I’m not arguing there’s never value in playing him in situations where he’s lower usage. I’m just saying I don’t think you can conclude in a vaccum that he’s taking 7 shots per game therefore if he played 7 more minutes on average he’d take 9 instead. That’s flawed - because the minutes he’s not in the game - he’s likely sitting for a reason.

And my point isn't Zrno, or any individual, should be playing more, its that team has been built so poorly that it has 11 guys averaging 10 minutes a game. The deep teams like Michigan and Purdue don't have that many guys playing big minutes. This is multiple years in a row we've done it. Our talent is so inconsistent he tries to change things up if a guys not going well immediately. Powers, Badalau, and Nwuli really all should have been eliminated from the rotation prior to conference play. Instead we start Powers 14 times. Could have made the same case for Zrno and or Mark, but they at least brought something we didn't have elsewhere, shooting or pace.

Regardless, even poor, one dimensional players would put more numbers with more time. Yes, guys are sitting for a reason, BUT, if they were on the court they would put up numbers. As mentioned, this band of misfits is Pikes 2nd highest scoring team ever. A few of them would average 11 with the playing time.

 

[seansherm]

Also Sean - for the sake of using the same logic to defend “your guy” argument could actually be made that EO could be highly effective as a back up, if Pike had the luxury of picking and choosing which match ups to use him in for 12ish mpg. Instead, he is stuck using him as a primary big or going undersized which is the main reason we can’t compete with anyone decent.

I’d argue he would likely still have a 4 ppg average right now on 10-12 mpg against favorable match ups contrary to your math. On the other hand, he would not have 7 ppg if we played him 30 mpg for the same reason.

I know EO would best be a 10mpg back up. Of course there is no argument otherwise. This roster is Pikes fault though. I didn't say give EO more playing time (although I'd consider it over Dortch much of the time), I said if we played through the post just a little bit more, numbers might look a little different. Look on the bright side, we could have a ****** center that demands the ball or wants to shoot. At least we don't have that.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I know EO would best be a 10mpg back up. Of course there is no argument otherwise. This roster is Pikes fault though. I didn't say give EO more playing time (although I'd consider it over Dortch much of the time), I said if we played through the post just a little bit more, numbers might look a little different. Look on the bright side, we could have a ****** center that demands the ball or wants to shoot. At least we don't have that.

My point really was that paper stats can’t be reviewed in a vaccum. EO has better paper stats than MJ had at UCLA. It doesn’t mean anything.

I’m still holding out hope that Francis stays, we deal with Knight for one more season and Pike finds us an MJ treasure from some other offense first team’s junk yard. With a Caleb on the side. Maybe somehow we can add these 3 things for under 4M. I’d keep EO as a back up along with whichever of the frosh guards would stay for right price tag. And Buchanan. With a little luck, that would still leave us some funds to go after another high level contributor.

 

[seansherm]

My point really was that paper stats can’t be reviewed in a vaccum. EO has better paper stats than MJ had at UCLA. It doesn’t mean anything.

I’m still holding out hope that Francis stays, we deal with Knight for one more season and Pike finds us an MJ treasure from some other offense first team’s junk yard. With a Caleb on the side. Maybe somehow we can add these 3 things for under 4M. I’d keep EO as a back up along with whichever of the frosh guards would stay for right price tag. And Buchanan. With a little luck, that would still leave us some funds to go after another high level contributor.

Yeah, I think you and I have been pretty much in agreement with what we need to add/keep.

I do wonder though if moving on from Knight, even if it costs losing Francis, could be better for Pike next year. That locker room needs a new voice and it's going to be Pike if it's not Knight. Especially if we are still way behind in $ even if we do have more than in the past.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Yeah, I think you and I have been pretty much in agreement with what we need to add/keep.

I do wonder though if moving on from Knight, even if it costs losing Francis, could be better for Pike next year. That locker room needs a new voice and it's going to be Pike if it's not Knight. Especially if we are still way behind in $ even if we do have more than in the past.

In any other year I’d agree with you. I just think the timing of our situation is such that we are in the worst possible situation imaginable for portal season if Knight walks. It’s not only the loss of Francis. Think about the position Pike would be in. Back against the wall on the hot seat in the market for someone to run the offense. The worst possible timing to get in front of the portal situation. He’d have to make a quick decision and based on his position, I’m not sure how attractive the job would be.

Beyond this, at the same time as figuring out the offensive coaching, Pike would have to manage the order of prioritization of everyone else. If Lino really has a foot out the door already, what is our plan. We won’t be able to blindly go purchase a center not having any idea what type of offense we’re going to have. We’d have no luck with that. Retaining guys like J Mike, Grant, Powers, Dortch, Nwuli, Ogbole, Zrno doesn’t offer much clarity as none are more than role players. We can’t really focus on D at that point because if we did, we could be trending towards a 40-50 ppg type of roster. We’ve have no direction once again and this time while searching for a new offensive coach.

 

[seansherm]

In any other year I’d agree with you. I just think the timing of our situation is such that we are in the worst possible situation imaginable for portal season if Knight walks. It’s not only the loss of Francis. Think about the position Pike would be in. Back against the wall on the hot seat in the market for someone to run the offense. The worst possible timing to get in front of the portal situation. He’d have to make a quick decision and based on his position, I’m not sure how attractive the job would be.

Beyond this, at the same time as figuring out the offensive coaching, Pike would have to manage the order of prioritization of everyone else. If Lino really has a foot out the door already, what is our plan. We won’t be able to blindly go purchase a center not having any idea what type of offense we’re going to have. We’d have no luck with that. Retaining guys like J Mike, Grant, Powers, Dortch, Nwuli, Ogbole, Zrno doesn’t offer much clarity as none are more than role players. We can’t really focus on D at that point because if we did, we could be trending towards a 40-50 ppg type of roster. We’ve have no direction once again and this time while searching for a new offensive coach.

It wouldn't be ideal, no doubt. They'll have just over a month from end of season to the portal opening, correct?

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

It wouldn't be ideal, no doubt. They'll have just over a month from end of season to the portal opening, correct?

If I’m understanding the podcast correctly - Pitt is in a situation where their buy out gets significantly reduced if they “wait” to make their lay off decision until a certain date (no clue what date that is). The point I was making is that the single worst outcome (of every possible permutation out there) for Rutgers appears to theoretically be in play. Aka - a scenerio where Knight strings RU along (which he absolutely should do until such time when he has a guaranteed offer). Depending on when Pitt makes its final decision, RU could, essentially be operating in a world where Pike thinks he has TF, makes portal negotiations around this expectation, and then gets hit with the bomb ala Cam Spencer walking out the door. Regardless of what one thinks of Knight as a coach or TF as a player, THIS path would be Rutgers single worst nightmare. There could conceivably be no lower rock bottom than this for RU basketball. And to be clear, the negotiations I refer to are the ones currently ongoing that have reportedly started behind the scenes months ago. If we’ve planned around keeping TF and that’s dependent on whether Knight gets the Pitt job, we could be in a pile of hot water should he land that position.

 

[seansherm]

If I’m understanding the podcast correctly - Pitt is in a situation where their buy out gets significantly reduced if they “wait” to make their lay off decision until a certain date (no clue what date that is). The point I was making is that the single worst outcome (of every possible permutation out there) for Rutgers appears to theoretically be in play. Aka - a scenerio where Knight strings RU along (which he absolutely should do until such time when he has a guaranteed offer). Depending on when Pitt makes its final decision, RU could, essentially be operating in a world where Pike thinks he has TF, makes portal negotiations around this expectation, and then gets hit with the bomb ala Cam Spencer walking out the door. Regardless of what one thinks of Knight as a coach or TF as a player, THIS path would be Rutgers single worst nightmare. There could conceivably be no lower rock bottom than this for RU basketball. And to be clear, the negotiations I refer to are the ones currently ongoing that have reportedly started behind the scenes months ago. If we’ve planned around keeping TF and that’s dependent on whether Knight gets the Pitt job, we could be in a pile of hot water should he land that position.

If that "date" is after the portal window, which wasn't in existence when hos extension was put in place, it really wouldn't matter for RU since Francis wouldn't be able to enter the portal. The only threat is if this date randomly comes up while the portal is already open.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

If that "date" is after the portal window, which wasn't in existence when hos extension was put in place, it really wouldn't matter for RU since Francis wouldn't be able to enter the portal. The only threat is if this date randomly comes up while the portal is already open.

Check out the podcast. Per Richie - it sounded like if Knight were to leave it’d be a foregone conclusion that TF would be a package deal. I imagine the date allows for that.

The point is - even if the date is the day after Pitt is eliminated in the ACC tournament, portal negotiations started months ago and if we’ve been managing the pre-cycle under the expectation of TF returning we will have an insurmountable amount of ground to make up.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

Check out the podcast. Per Richie - it sounded like if Knight were to leave it’d be a foregone conclusion that TF would be a package deal. I imagine the date allows for that.

The point is - even if the date is the day after Pitt is eliminated in the ACC tournament, portal negotiations started months ago and if we’ve been managing the pre-cycle under the expectation of TF returning we will have an insurmountable amount of ground to make up.

The portal opens in April and is only open for 15 days, so anything that would happen would have to happen pretty quickly in that window. Pike can also work to get Francis contractually signed for next year so he can’t leave.

 

[NickRU714]

Again, I’m not exactly sure “We have one of the worst offenses in the conference! We’re running it back!” is as great recruiting pitch as it seems.

"Know our ongoing terrible offense for years? That guy is gone."
That's not exactly a death sentence.

Some of these arguments come across like we are trying to maintain an elite B1G roster and staff.

The problem isn't having to replace Knight and/or Francis.
It's the lack of faith in Pike to actually perform his job and replace Knight/Francis.
In which, what exactly is Pike bringing to the table now?

(I know we are stuck due to the buyout)

 

[NickRU714]

People can't accept that when you don't have any money it is hard to go shopping!

I would say people can't accept that if you are paid to go shopping, you still need to make the best of what you can.

If the shopping is too hard, then quit and stop taking money to go shopping.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Again, I’m not exactly sure “We have one of the worst offenses in the conference! We’re running it back!” is as great recruiting pitch as it seems.

"Know our ongoing terrible offense for years? That guy is gone."
That's not exactly a death sentence.

Some of these arguments come across like we are trying to maintain an elite B1G roster and staff.

The problem isn't having to replace Knight and/or Francis.
It's the lack of faith in Pike to actually perform his job and replace Knight/Francis.
In which, what exactly is Pike bringing to the table now?

(I know we are stuck due to the buyout)

No - the potential problem would be that we’ve already started planning around something that isn’t going to happen. All the reports say portal negotiations have been ongoing behind the scenes since November.

I think your underestimating (in general) how hard it would be period to “purchase” an established scorer who can create for himself at the high major level. But it’s even less likely we land someone like that at any position if we haven’t already started planning for it. We only have two guys on the current roster besides TF who even have a flicker of potential to develop into that (Lino and Powers) and it’s far from a guarantee a) they end up returning and b) either of them actual do become consistent game in and out scorers. Everyone else on the team scores via catch and shoot and Pike is not capable of having a successful offense based around ball distribution. That’s just not his thing - we have enough years of data to know there’s almost no chance of it happening. That’s why we appear to be in a precarious position.

I’ll throw Buchanan in because he can create for himself but I agree with RU-baby that he’s no more than a 20 mpg contributor. Just too wild and not good basketball IQ - Hyatt prototype.

 

[RAC93]

Again, I’m not exactly sure “We have one of the worst offenses in the conference! We’re running it back!” is as great recruiting pitch as it seems.

"Know our ongoing terrible offense for years? That guy is gone."
That's not exactly a death sentence.

Some of these arguments come across like we are trying to maintain an elite B1G roster and staff.

The problem isn't having to replace Knight and/or Francis.
It's the lack of faith in Pike to actually perform his job and replace Knight/Francis.
In which, what exactly is Pike bringing to the table now?

(I know we are stuck due to the buyout)

You asked what Pike is bringing to the table, he brings that he is a defensive guru who brings a defense first approach to winning games. Problem is his teams are now absolutely atrocious on defense. Oh well, looks like nothing is being brought to the table.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

You asked what Pike is bringing to the table, he brings that he is a defensive guru who brings a defense first approach to winning games. Problem is his teams are now absolutely atrocious on defense. Oh well, looks like nothing is being brought to the table.

Yeah this 1000%. That’s a) what he’s capable of bringing and doing well. And b) he finally has a team that is servicable enough on the other other end where he’d actually have a punchers chance to go after some D first (off efficiency ugly) players to restore this identity without fielding the 298th ranked offense ala 2023-24.2024-25 doesn’t count as our offensive weapons were never in the cards to stick around for defensive team development in an offseason.

Maybe my buddy Green will stick around long enough to remind our fan base of our pretty looking offensive efficiency numbers in 2022-23 before Mag went down… Mag stunk at offense. He made the team elite at creating offense from defense though. Him - one single player. Even with the games he played factored in Kenpom still ranks our current offense better (slightly) than Cam Spencer’s team to its peers…

@RIP2025 - how bout helping me out man, for old time sake? I know you haven’t watched, but we used to share similar defensive views so perhaps you can accept my take as a given which is that none of our guards are unplayable on D. GG, Noah, etc. played meaningful backcourt minutes on a 5th ranked defensive team… Our guards are better defenders than they were and all have improved on D since the beginning of the season. Ignore the money crap you hate and remind these folks about the difference a defensive stopper or two can make on help defense. When you don’t need those guys hoisting up shots to score Pike could be onto something. At least it’s not impossible.

We’re of course ignoring, here, the possibility of Knight getting the HC job at Pitt and TF following him. The offense would then have to completely change. Just doesn’t seem realistic to me that Pike could rebuild a completely new look offense at the same time as fixing the D in one offseason. No TF would mean just that. He’s the nucleus on offense.

 

[seansherm]

Yeah this 1000%. That’s a) what he’s capable of bringing and doing well. And b) he finally has a team that is servicable enough on the other other end where he’d actually have a punchers chance to go after some D first (off efficiency ugly) players to restore this identity without fielding the 298th ranked offense ala 2023-24.2024-25 doesn’t count as our offensive weapons were never in the cards to stick around for defensive team development in an offseason.

Maybe my buddy Green will stick around long enough to remind our fan base of our pretty looking offensive efficiency numbers in 2022-23 before Mag went down… Mag stunk at offense. He made the team elite at creating offense from defense though. Him - one single player. Even with the games he played factored in Kenpom still ranks our current offense better (slightly) than Cam Spencer’s team to its peers…

@RIP2025 - how bout helping me out man, for old time sake? I know you haven’t watched, but we used to share similar defensive views so perhaps you can accept my take as a given which is that none of our guards are unplayable on D. GG, Noah, etc. played meaningful backcourt minutes on a 5th ranked defensive team… Our guards are better defenders than they were and all have improved on D since the beginning of the season. Ignore the money crap you hate and remind these folks about the difference a defensive stopper or two can make on help defense. When you don’t need those guys hoisting up shots to score Pike could be onto something. At least it’s not impossible.

We’re of course ignoring, here, the possibility of Knight getting the HC job at Pitt and TF following him. The offense would then have to completely change. Just doesn’t seem realistic to me that Pike could rebuild a completely new look offense at the same time as fixing the D in one offseason. No TF would mean just that. He’s the nucleus on offense.

Powers is worse than those guys on D. Francis isn't much better than Fernandes. JMike and Lino are Ok.

 

[RUDivision]

It’s a complete rebuild! Pike said this team this year would get back to his brand of basketball, Defense! Complete failure!!!

Team is awful defensively!

TF has had a good season and is definitely and iso player which fits Pikes ZERO offense. He is not worth 7 figures. Try and keep him for 750k or less. If not move on.

ISO undersized guard who struggles on D is not the player you build around.

 

[RAC93]

Powers is worse than those guys on D. Francis isn't much better than Fernandes. JMike and Lino are Ok.

Our interior defense and rebounding is awful as well, players like Badalau, Grant, Buchanan, Ogbole/Dortch. The interior defense has been like a layup line that gives up offensive rebounds to opponents of the occasional missed shots. It was bad last year and bad again, it’s been two years of watching bad defense. Additionally, we give up open threes (wide open threes) way too much so the exterior is no help either. When grading them against a curve of being a Pike coached team, the last two years have been flat out bad and an F.

 

[seansherm]

Our interior defense and rebounding is awful as well, players like Badalau, Grant, Buchanan, Ogbole/Dortch. The interior defense has been like a layup line that gives up offensive rebounds to opponents of the occasional missed shots. It was bad last year and bad again, it’s been two years of watching bad defense. Additionally, we give up open threes (wide open threes) way too much so the exterior is no help either. When grading them against a curve of being a Pike coached team, the last two years have been flat out bad and an F.

We are also bad for so many different reason. EO still has no idea how to properly play the pick n roll. Dortch just isn't a center and is over run down low. Grant is just awful defensively. DB is passable defensively, we've played him on guys 1-5, which isn't the easiest for a guy who isn't the quickest.

 

[NickRU714]

Yeah this 1000%. That’s a) what he’s capable of bringing and doing well. And b) he finally has a team that is servicable enough on the other other end where he’d actually have a punchers chance to go after some D first (off efficiency ugly) players to restore this identity without fielding the 298th ranked offense ala 2023-24.2024-25 doesn’t count as our offensive weapons were never in the cards to stick around for defensive team development in an offseason.

Maybe my buddy Green will stick around long enough to remind our fan base of our pretty looking offensive efficiency numbers in 2022-23 before Mag went down… Mag stunk at offense. He made the team elite at creating offense from defense though. Him - one single player. Even with the games he played factored in Kenpom still ranks our current offense better (slightly) than Cam Spencer’s team to its peers…

@RIP2025 - how bout helping me out man, for old time sake? I know you haven’t watched, but we used to share similar defensive views so perhaps you can accept my take as a given which is that none of our guards are unplayable on D. GG, Noah, etc. played meaningful backcourt minutes on a 5th ranked defensive team… Our guards are better defenders than they were and all have improved on D since the beginning of the season. Ignore the money crap you hate and remind these folks about the difference a defensive stopper or two can make on help defense. When you don’t need those guys hoisting up shots to score Pike could be onto something. At least it’s not impossible.

We’re of course ignoring, here, the possibility of Knight getting the HC job at Pitt and TF following him. The offense would then have to completely change. Just doesn’t seem realistic to me that Pike could rebuild a completely new look offense at the same time as fixing the D in one offseason. No TF would mean just that. He’s the nucleus on offense.

Regardless of Pitt interest, the plan should be keep Knight and no coaching changes?
Despite bottom of the B1G offenses and results for going on 3 years?

There is something about the definition of insanity in there.

 

[NickRU714]

Imagine PSU came out and said "We know we were one of the worst B1G teams the last 3 years. We're staying the course. No changes to staff or plan."

We would be doing backflips and cheering.

 

[tru2ru1]

I would say people can't accept that if you are paid to go shopping, you still need to make the best of what you can.

If the shopping is too hard, then quit and stop taking money to go shopping.

You are too dumb to respond to, after writing that nonsense

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Regardless of Pitt interest, the plan should be keep Knight and no coaching changes?
Despite bottom of the B1G offenses and results for going on 3 years?

There is something about the definition of insanity in there.

It doesn’t matter who Pike hires. He’s a D first style head coach and always will be if he’s to have successes. The blueprint was there up until that Michigan State game when Mag went down.

 

[RUfan1977]

Rutgers has brought in 7 portal players over THREE SEASONS...has to be among lowest if not lowest at any power 5 over that time span

Of course there were few returnees last year..3 seniors and 2 wasted 1 and dones . Summerville left for mo money and Dercack wasnt worth anything

Pike dinosaur brought in 7 freshmen

It’s a lot more fun to go shopping if you have $ in your wallet. Up to Pikiel to turn things around now that he has some money to spend!

 

[RAC93]

It’s a lot more fun to go shopping if you have $ in your wallet. Up to Pikiel to turn things around now that he has some money to spend!

The problem is Pike may have more money, but all the others will have MORE money as well and still significantly more money than RU. I do expect that we get a little better quality players than the Martini, Acuff, Hayes, and Derkack trash level we acquired but nothing close to what the big boy programs will acquire in the portal. The only players in the portal we acquired that could actually play were Spencer annd Francis. Spencer moved on to bigger and better things, we’ll see if we can keep Francis (but have my doubts).

 

[tru2ru1]

The problem is Pike may have more money, but all the others will have MORE money as well and still significantly more money than RU. I do expect that we get a little better quality players than the Martini, Acuff, Hayes, and Derkack trash level we acquired but nothing close to what the big boy programs will acquire in the portal. The only players in the portal we acquired that could actually play were Spencer annd Francis. Spencer moved on to bigger and better things, we’ll see if we can keep Francis (but have my doubts).

You mean Spencer moved on to a bigger paycheck

 

[RAC93]

You mean Spencer moved on to a bigger paycheck

Correct, a bigger check would be bigger and better things, going to a winning program with a history of winning would be bigger and better things, winning a national title would be bigger and better things, making it to the NBA would be bigger and better things. So, yes, he left RU for bigger and better things.

 

[Mr. Magoo1]

It’s a complete rebuild! Pike said this team this year would get back to his brand of basketball, Defense! Complete failure!!!

Team is awful defensively!

TF has had a good season and is definitely and iso player which fits Pikes ZERO offense. He is not worth 7 figures. Try and keep him for 750k or less. If not move on.

ISO undersized guard who struggles on D is not the player you build around.

Exactly. Francis does well because we have no offense and he can create for himself off the dribble, unlike others on the team. Francis is a bench player on most P5 teams but we are devoid of talent, so he excels. The bottom like is there is not a single player on this frankenroster that we cannot afford to lose. We should low-ball a few of the players, and if they stay, fine.

Of course, Pike has proven he’s incapable of constructing a winning roster in the NIL age, so his last year here will probably be more of the same. Regardless, continuity of keeping players means nothing for a 10-win team filled with low-ceiling mid major players.

 

[RUfan1977]

The problem is Pike may have more money, but all the others will have MORE money as well and still significantly more money than RU. I do expect that we get a little better quality players than the Martini, Acuff, Hayes, and Derkack trash level we acquired but nothing close to what the big boy programs will acquire in the portal. The only players in the portal we acquired that could actually play were Spencer annd Francis. Spencer moved on to bigger and better things, we’ll see if we can keep Francis (but have my doubts).

With more money you have a better chance of getting some proven players, but I agree with you that we don’t have the money to get proven stars at least not stars from high level conferences. Neither Francis nor Spencer were highly sought after when they came to Rutgers. Did Pikiel know that they would become as good as they did, probably not. But I think he saw potential in them. Pikiel needs to get a little bit lucky next year with the players he gets. It’s also not all about skill, this year’s team plays soft, doesn’t rebound or hustle on defense. That’s been a huge disappointment. One positive for Pikiel’s defense first philosophy is that defensive players are not as sought after.

 

[dpwhite]

I think it’s amazing that after ten years people still can’t spell Pikiell.