I don't disagree, ideally all come back, I like rooting for guys that stay in the program.
Lino Mark
- Thread starter MadRU
- Start date
yeah, this is all money ball talk which is the world we live in. It’s actually pretty wild to think how expendable everybody is at this stage. Remember when senior day used to be an emotional event?
Every single player can leave. Sure, there is something to be said for continuity but absolutely no one is that important on this frankenroster. Of course, the problem becomes Pike’s reputation for replacing players with worse players. I’d start with valuing players that absolutely show the want to stay here…provided they’re ok with potentially a lesser role (e.g., Davis). I doubt if you get many takers but not a single player here is worth overpaying. Real coaches should be able to replace players like David and Ogbole in their sleep.
Played well today. Not sure about Francis though. He just shot about 35% vs. two bad teams, and his defense was not good today. I think the money he is likely to want is way better spent someplace else.
I think most would agree you bring back Francis and Mark. Where does that leave Davis? Pike is loyal to a fault. Would he bring him back and not play his because if he plays next year we won’t be as good as we can be.
Agreed --we desperately need a center and two forwards. The group of guards we have now are serviceable but our bigs all have to go. I've never seen a Rutgers team with a more awful group of front court players.
Not sure why we want to try and keep players that don't want to be here; developmental time is over; need to either continue with the TF (PG) experiment going into next season; or spend the funds on a veteran PG. And see JMike back for his last season (off the bench of course) - as I don't see the staff telling him to walk.
What do you mean?
The amount of money being spent is going to be the same if we keep 10 players or we keep 0.
It sometimes seems like some posters assume "retained players" cost nothing.
Our backup center is going to be cheap next year.
Its either keeping Ogbole for (hopefully) $200k or geting a transfer from the portal for $200k?
The market value of retained players is the same as similar talented transfers.
The goal is having a staff that can identify undervalued players and exploit the market.
Take a $200k and get production of a player who should have cost $500k.
See Tariq Francis this year.
Not necessarily, guys in basketball and football have been kept at discounts recently.
This seems to be a knee jerk reaction to a poor game
All of a sudden Mark shoots well and Francis plays poor
What we do,
We try like hell to keep both
Francis is more your immediate help and Mark gets better as time goes on
I really liked Lino from when I met him this offseason. Great kid. I’ll be really bummed if he leaves. To those saying he’s not a great shooter, watch his tape. He’s a freshman. We will miss him when he’s lighting it up somewhere else. I don’t think he likes the cold coming from Orange County. I hope we can convince him to stay.
I'm guessing you mean high school tape - high school means nothing. We've watched the college tape. JMike was a better shooter in high school than Lino. While JMike has become better from outside, he shoots so little it's almost irrelevant. If Lino can get to average then he can be dangerous.
Davis, Mark, Francis, Transfer PG
Assuming we have 3 out of those 4 on the roster next year - the 3rd on the roster needs to cost $0.
Presumably Francis would be a starter and paid as such.
Is Francis the starting PG though?
Money cant be wasted on Davis or Mark (or an end of the bench transfer) as a 3rd PG.
Lesser role must equal lesser pay.
We don't have the luxury for pay bench players.
Assuming we have 3 out of those 4 on the roster next year - the 3rd on the roster needs to cost $0.
Presumably Francis would be a starter and paid as such.
Is Francis the starting PG though?
Money cant be wasted on Davis or Mark (or an end of the bench transfer) as a 3rd PG.
Lesser role must equal lesser pay.
We don't have the luxury for pay bench players.
You hopefully keep high value players at a discount (see Francis) to save money for other players.
Considering most of the players potentially returning are low value players, there shouldn't be much of a discount because it wouldn't save much.
They should already be receiving near minimal money anyway.
How much of a discount is Badalu or Nwuli going to give us?
The true discount comes from the staff ability to identify undervalued players in the transfer portal (see Spencer or Francis).
Then we can allocate more money towards known high value players.
I'd rather have cheap guys come back and hope they develop than depend on the staff finding guys at value, but I get what you are saying.
The money has to be spent wisely. If we have 8-10 million as is rumored, that is enough to put together a good roster. Nebraska shows that it is cheaper to retain and then add wisely than it is to go out and completely rebuild.
Nebraska took in 6 portal players last year and 5 the previous. Even Mast was a portal player but has been there a bit.
Yeah, but they still retained guys. Which allows you to go out and attack the portal—not a complete rebuild. I’m not saying keep 10 guys, I’m saying keep 5-6 and target needs with the money you have. If you can keep 5-6 guys for 3 million, that gives you 5-7 to go out and attack the portal and spend big on a center.
We need a large roster overhaul to actually win. Francis is the only legit Big 10 starter. We are going to keep 8 because thats what Pikes does and he isnt going to get top talent to come here. This team need 3 impact starters
“Because that’s what he does”
Except the past two years, we’ve had 3 and 4 returnees—not eight.
Rutgers has brought in 7 portal players over THREE SEASONS...has to be among lowest if not lowest at any power 5 over that time span
Of course there were few returnees last year..3 seniors and 2 wasted 1 and dones . Summerville left for mo money and Dercack wasnt worth anything
Pike dinosaur brought in 7 freshmen
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Need to keep Lino and Francis. Need To show Lino he is valued and wanted. Both are much better now than in the beginning of the year. Need to keep as many kids as we can because they are still developing. Then add a true Center from the portal, and other help as needed. We can have a winning season next year.
What 5-6 guys are you keeping for 3mil?
Does that include Francis?
Arguably, Francis and one of Mark/Davis/Powers would take up most of that.
Francis and whoever is starting next to him (retention or transfer) is going to be $3m probably.
Keep Nwuli and Ware for $100k each or a transfer 11th and 12th man for $100k each? Doesn't make a difference if the deep bench is retain or transfer. Just as long as they are as cheap as possible.
But we got to keep retain and develop Ogbole, Davis and Grant.....
3 guys that near everyone wants to have reduced roles next year at best.
Well, I don’t know what the market is. I’m going on the assumption that if Knight and Smoke are around, you’ll keep Tariq. There was a rumor somewhere that he did not take the top offer he had in the portal in order to come here. I think you are over valuing guys and what they could get on the open market otherwise. I don’t know that Powers has done enough to demand 1.5 million or whatever you are suggesting. I don’t think Davis goes out on the open market and gets anywhere near that.
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Francis is likely over $1.5m
Is Powers going to be a starter?
If so, hard to argue less than $1m.
If he (or Davis or Mark) are not going to start then obviously they get less money.
But then we need to get 4 starters.
Is Mark/Power/Davis going to want more money despite being bench players?
Ultimately, it's easy to say "retain".
But who are you retaining and for what role.
That dictates how much they will cost.
"Lino! You did great this year. We want to keep you, double your minutes, more responsibility and make you our starting PG. But....we're still going to pay you like a freshman backup 3rd PG."
I hope Rob Sullivan is a smooth negotiator.
Francis is at least $1.5 mil, Powers $1 mil, Mark $1 mil, Zrno $1 mil. I would like to see Nwuli develop one more year bc I think he has promise but I have no idea what he will cost. Pretty much everyone else is worth very little. I think every player may be leaving after this disastrous year. We need to spend a lot on a starting 5 that can block 2 shots a game, catch a ball, pass out of the post, hit a layup, dunk, and maybe have a couple of moves in the post. That will cost at least $2-3 mil. If we can't get a good (not a great) big guy...disaster. $8 mil is not getting it done.
I’m not following your logic at all. What other power conference, or even good mid major is “promising” any of our frosh a starting role next year? They are shooting like 35/36% from the field on a losing team with someone else as a go to player on it (it’s not like one would chalk it up to us not having any options but for them to chuck the ball up). Every one of these guys will have to compete for a starting role wherever they go unless they take a big step down.
Explain to me what team (put Rutgers aside) is paying Zrno, Powers and/or Mark $1M. Another high major? Is that what Dercack got from Dayton? He had proven stats at the low major level to advertise and more experience. Why should our guys be worth more? Wasn’t Lathan worth like 800k? And centers cost more. I’m not understanding why folks think our frosh are commanding such high price tickets.
Here is how I'd allocate $8m going into the off season.
Retained players can take it or leave it.
If not, go after a transfer for the same $$.
Retain Francis? What role and how much.
Lino Mark? Where? Is he starting at PG?
Is he 1st off the bench?
Same for Powers?
Grant?
C - $2m
PG - $1.5m
3 Wings - 800k each x3
Backup G: 500k
Backup W: 500k
Backup C: 500k
9th-13th: 500k total for 5 players (100k each begrudgingly......I'd prefer just scholarships and spend on the rest of the roster)
Obviously you can move money between roles based on players.
Can we make Francis starting PG for less? To spend more on a starting Wing?
Long story short: we don't really have enough money unless the program (Sullivan, Pike or whomever) are excellent at talent identification.
Even then it'll take threading the needle.
Retained players can take it or leave it.
If not, go after a transfer for the same $$.
Retain Francis? What role and how much.
Lino Mark? Where? Is he starting at PG?
Is he 1st off the bench?
Same for Powers?
Grant?
C - $2m
PG - $1.5m
3 Wings - 800k each x3
Backup G: 500k
Backup W: 500k
Backup C: 500k
9th-13th: 500k total for 5 players (100k each begrudgingly......I'd prefer just scholarships and spend on the rest of the roster)
Obviously you can move money between roles based on players.
Can we make Francis starting PG for less? To spend more on a starting Wing?
Long story short: we don't really have enough money unless the program (Sullivan, Pike or whomever) are excellent at talent identification.
Even then it'll take threading the needle.
Shelby concurs. Let Davis compete for playing time at SW Central Biloxi A&M Tech.