Let's Talk Defense...
- Thread starter HuskerLove
- Start date
Talent has been an issue without any doubt. But it seems that some coaches are able to design effective pass rushes without elite talent, at least occasionally. I haven't seen that with our recent coaches, including Chinander.
Do we truly think that the Huskers will ever get back to consistently having a top 15 / 20 overall defense?
IMHO, I say no, not until HCSF makes defense a priority and hires a veteran DC who has orchestrated top-tier defenses year in and year out. By no means am I saying this to diss Chinander, but let's be honest, his time as a DC has never been about trying to shutout opposing offenses - the entire goal of his scheme is to try and force the occasional turnover so that our offense gets more opportunities to score than the other team. I understand that football has evolved over the years, but nothing about that strategy screams 'Blackshirts' to me and that sucks.
As a simple matter of geography we cannot expect to ever again (consistently) recruit defensive studs at the same level as Alabama, LSU, Clemson, OSU, etc., and that even further amplifies the importance of having a DC who knows how to out-scheme the opposing team's OC each week.
This isn't intended to be a Negative Nancy type post, just stating what I believe and was hoping that others would chime-in as well with their thoughts on the subject
GBR!
Right now if I had to choose I would lean to agreeing with you. I'm not sure how good Chin is BUT his resume so far is kinda meh to me.
Now the problem that will come up is in this conversation is that the last couple years has probably been the worst group of pass rushers I can remember.he ever.having. Seriously it's extremely hard to play defense with no pass rushers on the outside (Kahlil was very good last year).
Other.thing is.that I don't see anyone in the near future to change that. I like how Butler , Payton, and the Sweiger kid look but they are probably a ways off. So again I'm not sure how we get to the passer.
Somehow Jojo, Tannor, Nelson, and maybe the juco OLB find a way to get some.pressure.on the passer.this year. Maybe Dawson can coach them up or maybe we.get some surprise help from somewhere else. Either way until we.can get some legit pass rushers this defense will struggle . If we get no pass rush or.similar.to what we have had the last couple.years.no.way we get in the top 15-20/range imo.
Holla
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Lol...So we are 0-4 on that list.
Fwiw I DO think a high powered offense is right around the corner. Maybe as early as this year. I also think efficient special teams is near. The depth on the front 7 MAY be a tad farther off. BUT the huge one for me and MY most important one is the pass rush. If I'm being honest I still don't see where it's coming from in the near future unless a couple guys make HUGE jumps or some of.the incoming guys really suprise.
Holla
I’m hopeful we can get more production out of Domann, Tannor, Cooper, Nelson, then hopefully a Mauga or Henrich inside.
But I agree there’s not enough evidence they can get to where we need them to be.
The sleeper pass rush pick would be Blaise if his hips are good to go.
Butler may be too raw.
Blaise has a solid frame and motor. It’s just a tall task for a true frosh.
Keyshawne Greene inside is another wild card, but my estimation is he needs a year to grow. If he could give us something, it could be special.
Might sound crazy, but I think our best chance outside of a LB making a jump is Bootle. Imagine Bootle doing what they had Lamar do last year off the corner. Bootle is not gonna pull up at the last second though...he is going to hit that QB as hard as he can. And he can get there a lot faster than Lamar could. Might see him line up in some interesting spots next season if we can't get a LB to flip the switch.
Sounds easy, but the offenses we see now are exactly the type that used to give McBride (and Bo for that matter) a lot of trouble. There's a reason why everybody has seemed to move to the same type of offense. The best remedy has always been better talent.
Bootle? Are you serious? And he's below average in run support. I'm sure glad we don't have some of you as coaches.
Do we truly think that the Huskers will ever get back to consistently having a top 15 / 20 overall defense?
IMHO, I say no, not until HCSF makes defense a priority and hires a veteran DC who has orchestrated top-tier defenses year in and year out. By no means am I saying this to diss Chinander, but let's be honest, his time as a DC has never been about trying to shutout opposing offenses - the entire goal of his scheme is to try and force the occasional turnover so that our offense gets more opportunities to score than the other team. I understand that football has evolved over the years, but nothing about that strategy screams 'Blackshirts' to me and that sucks.
As a simple matter of geography we cannot expect to ever again (consistently) recruit defensive studs at the same level as Alabama, LSU, Clemson, OSU, etc., and that even further amplifies the importance of having a DC who knows how to out-scheme the opposing team's OC each week.
This isn't intended to be a Negative Nancy type post, just stating what I believe and was hoping that others would chime-in as well with their thoughts on the subject
GBR!
I'm tired of having an undisciplined D that makes bad decision after bad decision, especially LBs and Safeties. I don't see how this turns around with Chins. Tired of seeing other teams in Big West with inferior talent and recruiting but with solid disciplined Ds that are better than us.
I don’t keep up on all the teams, but it seems one common denominator is stability at those programs. They’ve been instilling their system and culture for years and have guys develop in the system = discipline.
We have not had the chance to reach that point with our roster. It’s not a guarantee of success, but it’d be nice to give Chinander the chance to get some more stability both with roster/attrition and length of time to develop guys in the system.
It may take 4-5 yrs total to scratch that surface of stability, but the patience factor w/o guarantees will be tough.
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100%. I am so tired of hearing how we need more talent to be competitive. It shouldn't take Ndamukong Suh, Lavonte David, and Randy Gregory to be competive in the B1G West with teams we dominate every year in recruiting rankings. Experience should mean something. Also I call BS that every 4 star we recruit is over rated!
Returning significant experience:
DT: Damion Daniels
DE: Deontre Thomas, Ben Stille
OLB: JoJo Domann, Garrett Nelson, Caleb Tannor
ILB: Colin Miller, Will Honas, Joey Johnson, Luke Reimer
DB: Dicaprio Bootle, Cam Taylor-Britt, Braxton Clark, Marquel Dismuke, Deontai Williams, Eli Sullivan
Current 4 stars:
DT/DE: Ty Robinson
DE: Tate Wilderman, Keem Green
ILB: Keshawn Green, Eteva Mauga-Clements, Nick Henrich
OLB: Caleb Tannor, Jackson Hannah
DB: Marquel Dismuke, Noa Pola-Gates, Jaiden Francois
Maybe not, but many have transferred out or were recruited for another scheme. I have my concerns about Chinander too, but the idea that we are loaded with talent because we once signed guys like Guy Thomas and Can Jones is faulty. Your list of 4-stars on the defense only includes two players with any experience and neither have set the world on fire. I don’t see how anyone sees the names on this list and thinks that should be a great defense, right now.
There's a reason Purdue felt good about the reverse...it's a carbon copy of a play Auburn executed in the Peach Bowl against UCF.
(Both videos linked directly to the play).
UCF/Auburn 2017.
NU/PU 2019.
This shouldn't happen. The defense has done a lot of things well, but things like this aren't a result of poor effort or talent, it's poor coaching.
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Scott wants to play an aggressive defense.. high risk, high reward. That is what Scott wants. Chins is going to do what Scott wants him to do. Scott hasn't changed his philosophy to more of a read and react defense yet.
Why would anyone look at our list of 4 star recruits and experienced players and think we should not be competitive in the B1G West, right now? Other teams in the division kill with their 4 star talent. Why shouldn't we at least expect to be competitive in the division!!
For comparison
All of Wisconsin's 4 stars since '16:
'16 Garrett Rand: Solid contributor
'16 Noah Burks: Solid contributor
'17 Andrew Van Ginkel: NFL Draft, Miami Dolphin
'18 Jack Sanborn: Preseason All Conference
‐‐----------‐---------------
'19 Spencer Lytle: Redshirted
'19 Rodas Johnson: Redshirted
'19 Semar Melvin: Redshirted
Yeah this idea that we need to have our entire team filled with 4 and 5 star players just to field a competitive defense is ridiculous.
No one has said that. But acting like this D is loaded with playmakers is a little ridiculous. Just like looking at old recruiting rankings, ignoring coaching and scheme changes and thinking that represents the current talent.
And BTW, who were the best defensive players in this league last year?
Chase Young
AJ Epenesa
Micha Parsons
All 5 star players.
Look at the assistant coaches. Yes they are somewhat young. However, look at their prior coaching pedigree. I think that tells you enough abut the future. I hope I am wrong, but I'll put my money down that this defensive staff has no clue what they are in for. So far, I think they are slowly figuring out. You are only as good as your assistants. This isn't Central Florida or Northern Iowa or whatever. This is a different ballgame entirely. I questioned their experience from the get-go.
this is exactly why matt patricia is taking the football world by storm
pedigree is everything
literally every great coach studied under numerous legends. it's a pre-requisite. we are lucky to have geniuses like chuck here to remind us all why we're doomed. I mean, the guy questioned their experience from the get-go. wow!
thank you for your service, chuck.
Actually, the D is slightly ahead of the offense, so you are right. And I can't find any of the assistants who learned their knowledge from a legend except for Frost, so don't blame me for how his first two seasons have played out. Hopefully it will turn around.
Not everything is sunshine, just looking towards the future and our talent level and what is on paper. Hopefully Frost surprises me, but he has underachieved so far, and I hope he turns it around in the next couple of years and I will give him the benefit of the doubt this year. Another losing season? That might give you a little insight on how this is going to play out. It's not over yet, but the business side of me says 3 straight losing seasons and.....You will figure it out. He will have 5 though to figure it out.
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everyone knows you win big before your first recruiting class hits their senior year. it's a tale as old as time. inherit a roster full of insurance salesmen, turn everyone over, play 24 games and then BOOM, time to put up or shut up.
'the business side' of you. LMAO. if you don't make it big in business your first 36 months, pack it in. again, everyone knows that. it's business 101.
any more shocking revelations you'd care to share with the class?
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The regression and poor coaching in year two is cause for concern. I'm sure you, along with the AD, fully expected to win the Big 10 in year 3 and compete for the dance in 4 and 5. Now that it isn't going so well after the regression in year 2, you get mad.
He needs to show a big improvement in year 3 or yes his *** will be on the hot seat in year 4. (it already is in 75% of the national media.). I give him 5. In this day and age, that is plenty even with the Riley regime and all of the other excuses people want to make. And finally, if you don't think this is a business, ask Taggert, Strong, and even Riley if this is a business or not. I wish Frost the best, however i'm not too optimistic at this point. Produce with wins and I will believe.
You said old recruiting rankings don't represent current talent. You then said the best defensive players in the conference last year were the highest rated recruits from old recruiting classes. Hmmm...
You also mentioned looking at recruiting rankings but ignoring coaching and scheme changes, and thinking that represents the current talent. Every 4 star mentioned, except Dismuke, was recruited for the 3-4. Almost all were recruited to play for Chin. Coaching and scheme change should not be a problem for the group mentioned.
My point is that it shouldn't require Ndamukong Suh, Lavonte David, and Randy Gregory (all 4 star recruits) to be competitive in the West. I call BS that none of our current 4 star recruits are potential playmakers. We shouldn't require 5 star recruits to keep up with Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, and Purdue.
EDIT: headcard, just realized you weren't responding to my post. My bad man!
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Why would guys like Cam Jones and Guy Thomas make my list faulty? I never listed them. Every player I did mention is currently on the roster and was recruited for the 3-4 defense. We still have more 4 star recruits than most of the West.
I still call BS that every 4 star we've recruited is overated. At some point, guys like Caleb Tannor, Keem Green, Ty Robinson need to make an impact.
To your last point. It's fine if you look at our defensive roster and think we will not be great. It is not fine to think we shouldn't be competitive in the West which is my point. We have enough returning experience, raw talent, and coaching/scheme continuity to at least compete in our division. I think we see things start to shape up the for Chins in year 3.
I hope you are right, but I am having a hard time seeing it on the defensive side of the ball. On offense I can start to see the identity, playmakers and depth. On defense, I look at our roster, scheme, etc and just don’t see it. Maybe some of the young guys can make an immediate impact.
I always chuckle when I see folks make comments like so and so needs to make defense a priority.
Nebraska fans being what we sre, we generally expect offense, defense and ST to perform in line with our blue blood reputation and be among the top in the country.
How's that saying go when everything is a priority nothing is?
Nebraska fans being what we sre, we generally expect offense, defense and ST to perform in line with our blue blood reputation and be among the top in the country.
How's that saying go when everything is a priority nothing is?
I feel like getting off the field in third down even in long situations hasn't been kind to us in the past forever. The amount of times we look decent for a couple downs and then get let down on third in the last ten years has to be astronomical.
If I could fix one thing about Husker football it would be that.
Yes, the opponent's 3rd & long have been a rough & tough business for us (especially year one for HCSF & Smiling Mike's results). It wasn't anywhere great but still better last year so maybe there's some hope.