Let's see where we stand

[kyjeff1]

Jeff...the people that would "bomb" us for firing Pope...are the same people that are currently laughing at us for having to deal with Pope.
National media hates us. They want us to suffer. Piss on them. Who gives a f*ck what they think?

Well man, I'm not sure what you want us to do. He was never getting fired after year 2, unless he missed the tournament.

I'm not supporting mediocrity, sh*t, I didn't want him to be hired in the first place. He actually surpassed my expectations, so I'm just hoping for the best.

But, he’s not a prick. Now, Barnhart, on the other hand… .

 

[SenseMaker_Cats]

The issues with Pope are about recruiting. He is a flat out terrible recruiter and it isn’t changing. In the NIL era with UK resources and cash available he shouldn’t be half this bad. New era, terrible recruiter, you fire him and nobody wouldn’t understand that. Hubert went to a final four at UNC and they were thinking of moving on him 2 years later. The fans wanted it over not long after that final four because they could see it wasn’t going anywhere. Nobody is blaming UNC.

This is not 1997 where it takes 4 years to build a roster. Pope is the only coach in history that’s been allowed to step in and immediately buy rosters. 0-14 this season on top 20, he’s around 0-40 now on top blue chip players since coming to Kentucky or worse. Read that again.

Who in the world thinks anyone would blame Kentucky from moving away from that? lol. I don’t think some of you are thinking this through. Not to mention, Pope is super embarrassing for this program. He’s Indiana level cringe.

“and they were thinking of moving on him 2 years later. The fans wanted it over not long after that final four because they could see it wasn’t going anywhere.”

but they didn’t move on. Just like UK didn’t move on but they will after this year and 99% of the fans will be ready for that.

IMO when it comes to recruiting performance, you have one year to look at and that’s last year. Unless you think they should fire him now after this recruiting cycle.

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

W

Well man, I'm not sure what you want us to do. He was never getting fired after year 2, unless he missed the tournament.

I'm not supporting mediocrity, sh*t, I didn't want him to be hired in the first place. He actually surpassed my expectations, so I'm just hoping for the best.

But, he’s not a prick. Now, Barnhart, on the other hand… .

Barnhart is a "great man" and "hands down the greatest AD in the history of the university". Just ask Matt Jones!

As for Pope...Full disclosure, I met him early last season and he couldn't have been nicer.

Still don't like him though. Maybe I'm being too harsh. But I doubt it.

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

“and they were thinking of moving on him 2 years later. The fans wanted it over not long after that final four because they could see it wasn’t going anywhere.”

but they didn’t move on. Just like UK didn’t move on but they will after this year and 99% of the fans will be ready for that.

IMO when it comes to recruiting performance, you have one year to look at and that’s last year. Unless you think they should fire him now after this recruiting cycle.

They didn't move bc Hubert was still landing top recruits in the meantime. Like when Cal would have a down year but then you at least have some studs coming in.

With Pope...not so much

 

[SenseMaker_Cats]

They didn't move bc Hubert was still landing top recruits in the meantime. Like when Cal would have a down year but then you at least have some studs coming in.

With Pope...not so much

At what point do you fire him?

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

At what point do you fire him?

If I were AD, I'd have started making calls during the Louisville-Michigan State-North Carolina-Gonzaga nightmare to start this season, when Pope showed us definitively who he is. That's his Ferrari. No point continuing on after seeing that.

So yeah I'd start making calls then, so that I'd be ready to fire him immediately after the Iowa State embarrassment.

Again maybe my answer would be different if Pope had some big name recruits in the pipeline but he never has and never will

 

[PastorofMuppets82]

This is just a curiosity set of questions. Because I would genuinely like to know.

- Since NIL started, how many coaches have been fired after 2 seasons?
- How many of those that were fired after 2 seasons had a winning record? Made at least a Sweet 16? Made the NCAA tournament both years?
- How many of those coaches were replaced by a coach who went on to have a better record, make at least a sweet 16, and make the NCAA tournament the following year?

To be clear I am not a Pope pumper. I was just okay with the hire. I thought it was lazy. I wanted Pearl as a transitional coach 3-5 years while we find a hungry young coach with proven experience at the lower levels, a conference championship or two, a deep NCAA run or two, etc that we could court for a while with Bruce holding it down. I took that approach because I didn't feel like any HUGE coaching candidates would want the pressure of following up Calipari at the time because most already had good situations at their current schools (ie Oats, Hurley, and Lloyd).

That said, I always figured whoever they hired (Pope or some other coach) would get 3 years, regardless of how poorly they coached. That is pretty standard everywhere unless you have outside issues that warrant a firing with cause. If UK fires a coach after 2 years (without cause) in the NIL era where you can build a team anywhere that has donor support after two NCAA tournament appearances and a sweet 16 the likelihood of a top choice coach coming here to replace him is slim. Hubert even got more than 2 years. They had a lot of cause to fire him after last year and didn't because he got Caleb Wilson. Then when they pull the trigger this year, all their tier one and tier 2 options turned them down. Do we really think just because "this is Kentucky" we are going to land someone off our tier 1 list if we fire Pope after year 2? You are basically virtue signaling to the potential candidates that you better win the SEC and make an Elite by the end of year 2 or you are gone. Oh by the way, you are starting with no players and no staff. God speed and good luck. And that is without even mentioning that Mitch is still the AD for a little while longer. There's no chance he coordinates a home run hire.

At the end of the day it's one more season (and it's make or break). Either Pope is mid (like always) and he is shown the door. Or Pope catches lightning in a bottle and we finish near the top of the SEC and make an Elite Eight and lands a few recruits along the way and our program starts to look healthy again. One way or another, next year will certainly be brighter than this one. Because either Pope is gone, or he finally proves he understands the assignment and has us back on track to being a blue blood. I won't be lobbying for a year 4 unless we win the SEC or make an Elite 8 and even then, his recruiting will have to improve before I'd be sold on year 4. But year 3, I think it was always gonna happen.

 

[kyjeff1]

Rodney Terry was also let go, made the NCAAT 3 years in row, got an elite 8 too. Big 12T title as well. He was fired after 2 full seasons at Texas.

LOL, did you change your avatar multiple times over the last hour?

 

[Farsight Clone]

LOL, thats fair. But my anger is directed toward those in charge, not anyone on here.
Pope's gonna make me need to increase my medication

Well maybe like 5 posters

 

[kyjeff1]

Pope winning % at UK = 63.9%
Terry winning % at Texas = 62.6%

I guess that 1 percent is the difference in getting another year. Either that or Texas has higher standards than UK now?

Pope's SOS ranks at UK: #3 and #4
Terry's SOS ranks at Texas: #35 and #24

 

[SenseMaker_Cats]

This is just a curiosity set of questions. Because I would genuinely like to know.

- Since NIL started, how many coaches have been fired after 2 seasons?
- How many of those that were fired after 2 seasons had a winning record? Made at least a Sweet 16? Made the NCAA tournament both years?
- How many of those coaches were replaced by a coach who went on to have a better record, make at least a sweet 16, and make the NCAA tournament the following year?

To be clear I am not a Pope pumper. I was just okay with the hire. I thought it was lazy. I wanted Pearl as a transitional coach 3-5 years while we find a hungry young coach with proven experience at the lower levels, a conference championship or two, a deep NCAA run or two, etc that we could court for a while with Bruce holding it down. I took that approach because I didn't feel like any HUGE coaching candidates would want the pressure of following up Calipari at the time because most already had good situations at their current schools (ie Oats, Hurley, and Lloyd).

That said, I always figured whoever they hired (Pope or some other coach) would get 3 years, regardless of how poorly they coached. That is pretty standard everywhere unless you have outside issues that warrant a firing with cause. If UK fires a coach after 2 years (without cause) in the NIL era where you can build a team anywhere that has donor support after two NCAA tournament appearances and a sweet 16 the likelihood of a top choice coach coming here to replace him is slim. Hubert even got more than 2 years. They had a lot of cause to fire him after last year and didn't because he got Caleb Wilson. Then when they pull the trigger this year, all their tier one and tier 2 options turned them down. Do we really think just because "this is Kentucky" we are going to land someone off our tier 1 list if we fire Pope after year 2? You are basically virtue signaling to the potential candidates that you better win the SEC and make an Elite by the end of year 2 or you are gone. Oh by the way, you are starting with no players and no staff. God speed and good luck. And that is without even mentioning that Mitch is still the AD for a little while longer. There's no chance he coordinates a home run hire.

At the end of the day it's one more season (and it's make or break). Either Pope is mid (like always) and he is shown the door. Or Pope catches lightning in a bottle and we finish near the top of the SEC and make an Elite Eight and lands a few recruits along the way and our program starts to look healthy again. One way or another, next year will certainly be brighter than this one. Because either Pope is gone, or he finally proves he understands the assignment and has us back on track to being a blue blood. I won't be lobbying for a year 4 unless we win the SEC or make an Elite 8 and even then, his recruiting will have to improve before I'd be sold on year 4. But year 3, I think it was always gonna happen.

I’m on record on here as saying I wish we could have parted ways with him after this season. I knew that wasn’t feasible though. Some have convinced themselves that firing Pope after the ISU game ends with 100% positive results. They’re just absolutely sure of it and that wasn’t guaranteed.

 

[kyjeff1]

He also had more success at Texas than Mark Pope has at UK. In the same time frame.

You'll have to explain this. He played much weaker SOS's and his best finish is the first weekend of the NCAAT.

SEC scheduling is unbalanced, so finishing slightly ahead, or behind another conference team, can be as simple as 1 team getting to play South Carolina twice and the other one getting Alabama, or Tennessee twice.

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

You'll have to explain this. He played much weaker SOS's and his best finish is the first weekend of the NCAAT.

SEC scheduling is unbalanced, so finishing slightly ahead, or behind another conference team, can be as simple as 1 team getting to play South Carolina twice and the other one getting Alabama, or Tennessee twice.

Elite 8 his first year

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

Pope's SOS ranks at UK: #3 and #4
Terry's SOS ranks at Texas: #35 and #24

Then Pope needs easier schedules.

There's a reason I don't play a game on hard mode until I learn the controls.

 

[SenseMaker_Cats]

Elite 8 his first year

Wasn’t that his interim year. Not really “his” team.

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

Wasn’t that his interim year. Not really “his” team.

Yeah but he still gets credit for the postseason run, right? Can't hold that against him. He did his job.

 

[kyjeff1]

There it is. So you know he's not cut out for this, the same way we all do.
So what are we going back and forth for? Isn't this just a waste of a year?
Otherwise why do you think it's a "problem" if he saves his job?

This is what I said:

"My issue here is, if he gets to a sweet 16 this year, he will save his job and that's a problem"

I said "if". I never said "Know". nobody knows what's going to happen in year three and I will repeat what I have stated on here a million times now.

I am not a Pope fan, I am simply hoping he figures it out and wins, but he has a lot of things to fix. Things that are fixable. He’s on extremely thin ice with me, so if he continues to allow us to get blown out, do nothing while we are getting blown out, substitute like an idiot that doesn't understand momentum and continue to say "beautiful" while describing our players (I hate that), then I am 100% done.

Trust me, I'm being patient, but I fully recognize the same issues you see, I'm just not letting go of the rope yet.

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

I’m on record on here as saying I wish we could have parted ways with him after this season. I knew that wasn’t feasible though. Some have convinced themselves that firing Pope after the ISU game ends with 100% positive results. They’re just absolutely sure of it and that wasn’t guaranteed.

I actually don't think that at all. It will be hard to get the program back on track after Pope. And the longer Pope stays the more our brand is tarnished. So, I'd rather rip off the band-aid and start trying to move on now rather than give him another year to make things worse.

If it's just because of the size of his buyout, then OK. I understand that can be a difficult hurdle. (Thanks Mitch btw)
But there is zero basketball reason to want to run this back. Zero.

 

[RunninRichie]

LOL, did you change your avatar multiple times over the last hour?

Pepe pic didn't crop well, lol

 

[kyjeff1]

We mostly agree on the bolded part. But, I don't think you need a year 3 at UK to see Pope's ceiling. The guy has been coaching basketball for 15 years. He's never won a conference title. His highest ranked defensive team is like 35 or 37. He's totally green when it comes to recruiting high major talent. And dealing with their agents/handlers. UK is getting abused by agents for higher NIL deals elsewhere. Tyran Stokes and Caleb Wilson both trolled UK hardcore. The staff both thought they had them locked up too. Pat Kelsey saw the Stokes BS a mile away. But Pope didn't? I mean what the hell? I admire your optimism that Pope can suddenly figure this out. And lead a team led by Justin McBride, Zoom Diallo, and Alex Wilkins to a elite 8, with less than 10 losses. In a SEC with a loaded UT, Florida, Arkansas and a solid core of Alabama, Vanderbilt, and Texas. He also broke the #1 cardinal rule for a successful coach. Hiring buddies and friends. He still has Mark Fox on staff.

You’re most likely correct on all of your predictions and I fear those predictions are correct as well, the difference is, I came to grips long ago that Pope was getting a 3 year deal and to me, that's fair.
The second he made a sweet 16, it was set in stone and I accepted it. That's it.
Like I said in my last post, Pope is on extremely thin ice with me. You have seen me when I'm done with a bad coach, you know how I am. I'm not ready to go there with Pope yet. I am holding out hope that he gets the job done. But maaaan, the second we get another Michigan State, Louisville, or Gonzaga disaster, I'm out.

 

[RunninRichie]

You’re most likely correct on all of your predictions and I fear those predictions are correct as well, the difference is, I came to grips long ago that Pope was getting a 3 year deal and to me, that's fair.
The second he made a sweet 16, it was set in stone and I accepted it. That's it.
Like I said in my last post, Pope is on extremely thin ice with me. You have seen me when I'm done with a bad coach, you know how I am. I'm not ready to go there with Pope yet. I am holding out hope that he gets the job done. But maaaan, the second we get another Michigan State, Louisville, or Gonzaga disaster, I'm out.

Respect and understand your stance.

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

I said "if". I never said "Know". nobody knows what's going to happen in year three and I will repeat what I have stated on here a million times now.

Yeah I've heard you drop that nugget before. "No one knows what'll happen." Yeah no one's claiming to be Nostradamus or Carnac the Magnificent but based on 11 full seasons of Pope as head coach...you can damn sure make an educated guess.

Like yeah of course if Pope comes out strong next year and the boys only lose 5 games or something, then I'd definitely turn the corner on Pope. But there is nothing historically to suggest that would happen, just blind hope.

He's a double-digit loss coach. Only 2x did he coach a team to less than 10 losses, and those were the two seasons shortened by COVID-19.

 

[kyjeff1]

Elite 8 his first year

Not his players. He stepped in when the wife beater got fired.
That's like tubby winning the 98 title with Pitino's guys and Hubert getting to the title game with Roy's guys.
Heck, let's give Pope the team Cal had in 23/24, he wouldn't lost to Oakland, I'm confident in saying that.

 

[kyjeff1]

Then Pope needs easier schedules.

There's a reason I don't play a game on hard mode until I learn the controls.

I know, but we can't compare results when one coach is playing level 5 competition and the other is on level 3.

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

Not his players. He stepped in when the wife beater got fired.
That's like tubby winning the 98 title with Pitino's guys and Hubert getting to the title game with Roy's guys.
Heck, let's give Pope the team Cal had in 23/24, he wouldn't lost to Oakland, I'm confident in saying that.

Probably would've beat Oakland on a buzzer beater then lost to NC State by 20. I guess that's better

And yeah I give Tubby and Hubert credit for those also. They inherited good situations but they still won. Why crap on that?
Other coaches had teams like that dropped into their lap and couldn't win with em. It's not all recruiting. You still have to play the games.
(Exhibit A: See John Vincent Calipari)

 

[kyjeff1]

Yeah I've heard you drop that nugget before. "No one knows what'll happen." Yeah no one's claiming to be Nostradamus or Carnac the Magnificent but based on 11 full seasons of Pope as head coach...you can damn sure make an educated guess.

Like yeah of course if Pope comes out strong next year and the boys only lose 5 games or something, then I'd definitely turn the corner on Pope. But there is nothing historically to suggest that would happen, just blind hope.

He's a double-digit loss coach. Only 2x did he coach a team to less than 10 losses, and those were the two seasons shortened by COVID-19.

I'm hedging my bets here.

If Pope bombs in year 3, I will just say well, my gut was correct, I gave him a fair shot and he let me down.

BUUUT, if he kills it in year 3, I will be glad that I hung on and I fully expect you guys to give me a gatorade bath.

 

[kyjeff1]

Probably would've beat Oakland on a buzzer beater then lost to NC State by 20. I guess that's better

And yeah I give Tubby and Hubert credit for those also. They inherited good situations but they still won. Why crap on that?
Other coaches had teams like that dropped into their lap and couldn't win with em. It's not all recruiting. You still have to play the games.
(Exhibit A: See John Vincent Calipari)

I mean, Pope did really good things with that 25 roster. If he didn't lose Robinson and Butler was 100%, they get to the E8.

But that roster is straight a$$ compared to the roster Cal had his last year. If Pope got to inherit even half of that team, we're having completely different conversations right now.

Hubert and Tubby inherited really good teams, but look what they did when they had to get their own players.

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

I'm hedging my bets here.

If Pope bombs in year 3, I will just say well, my gut was correct, I gave him a fair shot and he let me down.

BUUUT, if he kills it in year 3, I will be glad that I hung on and I fully expect you guys to give me a gatorade bath.

Dude, if Pope kills it in year 3, you can take your girl out to Jeff Ruby's to try the wagyu and I'll foot the bill. That's how certain I am, lol.

But it's just a difference in mentality. I don't ever hedge bets. I pick my side and go all in. Sometimes it bites me in the rear. Don't think it will here, though.

Anyway. Good talk. See, people can disagree and not resort to name calling. Lot of posters on this site are incapable of doing that. I try to limit my name calling to Mitch Barnhart and Mark Pope...

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

I mean, Pope did really good things with that 25 roster. If he didn't lose Robinson and Butler was 100%, they get to the E8.

But that roster is straight a$$ compared to the roster Cal had his last year. If Pope got to inherit even half of that team, we're having completely different conversations right now.

Hubert and Tubby inherited really good teams, but look what they did when they had to get their own players.

After that, Tubby had three E8's in a span of 7 years. He was good...until the wheels fell off.

 

[lookinfor8]

More than likely Mark gets canned mid season and who knows after that. At least that’s what I’m hearing from the old heads

UK does not have the guts to fire a coach midseason.
Even they know it is going to happen they usually wait anout
a month after the season.
Usually a day late & a dollar short

 

[kyjeff1]

After that, Tubby had three E8's in a span of 7 years. He was good...until the wheels fell off.

Yeah and he never went to an NIT, but he was a lazy recruiter and a mid coach.
He also had team turmoil, which I believe Pope just had. This last team didn't like each other and it showed. I am amazed they actually got to the tournament.

 

[UKGrad24]

Barnhart is a "great man" and "hands down the greatest AD in the history of the university". Just ask Matt Jones!

As for Pope...Full disclosure, I met him early last season and he couldn't have been nicer.

Still don't like him though. Maybe I'm being too harsh. But I doubt it.

The most ridiculous thing that has ever been said by anyone associated with UK is “greatest AD we’ve ever had”. That man had nothing to do with campus investments, mega deals, nothing to do with it at all. As a matter of fact Kentucky is the only Sec program running behind the new era DUE TO Mitch Barnhart. We’re one of 2 SEC programs who hasn’t been to a January bowl this century, nearly impossible for an SEC program to do.

I was fortunate enough to know some very connected guys. My uncle who has passed was close with Mike, they went to college together and were lifelong friends. I was also fortunate enough to meet some influential guys in my time. Without getting into who says what, Barnhart is not liked. I’ll just say that. He stood in the way of every popular decision there ever was, and was removed from major decisions. Barnhart has only ever cared about about his self perceived good guy routine and that’s it. He’s not interested in competing he doesn’t give a damn about our basketball program either. It’s always been said it was an obstacle in his view. He’s shown himself to be corrupt and narcissistic, anyone that’s even interacted with him that I know said he’s awful. I’ve never met anyone that knows the guy that doesn’t think he’s a full blown narcissist.

He is the worst thing to ever happen at Kentucky. And if we ever get a competent AD that cares about what we care about, people will see that fast.

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

The most ridiculous thing that has ever been said by anyone associated with UK is “greatest AD we’ve ever had”. That man had nothing to do with campus investments, mega deals, nothing to do with it at all. As a matter of fact Kentucky is the only Sec program running behind the new era DUE TO Mitch Barnhart. We’re one of 2 SEC programs who hasn’t been to a January bowl this century, nearly impossible for an SEC program to do.

I was fortunate enough to know some very connected guys. My uncle who has passed was close with Mike, they went to college together and were lifelong friends. I was also fortunate enough to meet some influential guys in my time. Without getting into who says what, Barnhart is not liked. I’ll just say that. He stood in the way of every popular decision there ever was, and was removed from major decisions. Barnhart has only ever cared about about his self perceived good guy routine and that’s it. He’s not interested in competing he doesn’t give a damn about our basketball program either. It’s always been said it was an obstacle in his view. He’s shown himself to be corrupt and narcissistic, anyone that’s even interacted with him that I know said he’s awful. I’ve never met anyone that knows the guy that doesn’t think he’s a full blown narcissist.

He is the worst thing to ever happen at Kentucky. And if we ever get a competent AD that cares about what we care about, people will see that fast.

Just to be clear, I despise Mitch. I agree with everything you're saying.
I was quoting MJ, who really did say those things.

 

[Noledynasty2490]

I mean realistically with the roster RIGHT NOW, assuming some players take the jumps we hope and Moreno doesn't bolt, I could see the ceiling being a 9-10 seed in the NCAA with a first round loss or win depending on the matchup.

Add a Graves or Mom..(I don't think either is likely) and the second weekend could be possible.

But again, this is assuming guys like Kam, Hawthorne, Ousmane etc are as good and take jumps forward like we want them to be. If not, I think missing the tournament is a possibility.

 

Noledynasty2490

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[UKGrad24]

That and many are sub-consciously stuck on Pope because he's the "anti-Calipari".

Which I don’t get. Calipari was perfect for UK, the hard assed Italian take no prisoners, hated across the country, UK type guy. Why does anyone want the opposite? Calipari’s mistake was going all in on “forget the program all player” routine. He didn’t have to do that to recruit well, it was a mistake. Be the place of the pros and be Kentucky, the only program in the country that makes you famous statewide and gives opportunities you can’t get anywhere else. Calipari went Calipari and wanted it about himself, that’s where he screwed up. The way he was however, was what you want

Mark Pope doesn’t have anything that’s attractive to the Kentucky program. Feminine guy who talks about beauty, doesn’t cuss, doesn’t yell, bland and boring and strange. He doesn’t fit this program AT ALL. he’s also a terrible recruiter, the worst. Why would anyone want that?

I always wanted a former player coach but they have to be Kentucky level. You don’t sacrifice ability simply because he talks about the uniform lol.

 

[UKGrad24]

When you got Dick Vitale, who sugarcoats everything and glazes every coach in the country, commentating one of your games and saying things like "I just don't know if things are going to work out with Pope at UK", you know it's really bad.

For sure. This isn’t like the tubby era. First of all, it doesn’t matter what they say. They’ve been down our throats forever. Why would you hold back over that? Makes no sense. They destroyed us over Tubby, and what happened? We became the top destination over night. So what?

Second of all, this is the NIL era and this is Kentucky.

Third of all, most media heads can’t even find an issue with us wanting out of this. Just listen to them, nobody would be able to say anything. The guy cannot recruit to a blue blood, that’s case closed. Gary Parrish said recently that Kentucky is in a mess. National writers KNOW he can’t recruit here.

It’s just not something that matters but even if it did, so what? Since it doesn’t, this conversation is a no factor.

 

[Ash Williams]

Clearly.

Circle jerk alert.

 

[Ash Williams]

Wait, are you thinking I disagree with uNC canning him? No, they absolutely should have fired him.

Hubert was there from 2022-2026. That's 4 seasons. They didn't fire him after 2 seasons.

Pope made the sweet 16, it's not runner-up good, but it's still very impressive.

Both Hubert and Pope were getting 3 years. Hubert earned a 4th year just because Roy's players made a miracle run in the tournament. They stunk that year, but all it took, was 1 tournament run and he got a 4th year.

This is year 3 for Pope. His UK coaching career is on the line right now and I agree with that.

My issue here is, if he gets to a sweet 16 this year, he will save his job and that's a problem. In my opinion, he needs to have less than 10 losses (assuming it's against a top 5 SOS again) and at least an E8 to get a 4th year. If he gets to a sweet 16, it means we are keeping a guy that probably has a sweet 16 ceiling.

I'm all in on giving him a chance to redeem himself in year 3 by at least getting to the doorstep of a FF, but that's it

I know you guys think those of us defending Pope, are "Pope fans", but we're not, we're just giving him his 3rd year to prove himself.

And the rest of us, who were right all along about Sharpe, JQ, AND Pope, are saying we already know how this is going to turn out and you can take your virtue signaling and shove it up your a.ss.

 

[Ash Williams]

I'm hedging my bets here.

If Pope bombs in year 3, I will just say well, my gut was correct, I gave him a fair shot and he let me down.

BUUUT, if he kills it in year 3, I will be glad that I hung on and I fully expect you guys to give me a gatorade bath.

No, you didn't hedge your bets. You don't get to pretend your "gut" was correct when you didn't take a position to that effect. In fact, you dug trenches with concertina wire and declared holy war against all those who want Pope gone. You don't get to play both sides of the fence. You carved out "Pope defender" status, Population YOU, and you'll wear that swastika for the rest of your pecker-suckin' life on this forum.

 

[kyjeff1]

And the rest of us, who were right all along about Sharpe, JQ, AND Pope, are saying we already know how this is going to turn out and you can take your virtue signaling and shove it up your a.ss.

You don't know sh*t.

Show me where you predicted Sharpe and JQ wouldn’t play. Nobody buys the trash you're selling. GFY