Let's discuss Mullen and recruiting specifically

[Irondawg]

Because I'm honestly a little tired of the "has his head up his ***" when it comes to recruiting. The guy clearly isn't the John Calipari of recruiting but I need someone to convince me he's not at least average.

We do have some holes on this team, but very few even SEC teams don't have some holes. Tackle is obviously an issue and the truth is we went after some JUCO guys - we just missed on them. It's not like quality JUCO tackles are a dime a dozen. Heck, very few JUCO players at all are really SEC starter levels and most of the ones that are were placed by a program so they're hard to turn.

I also keep seeing comments that our policy about Dec. graduation is stupid. Looks, he's shown it's not a requirement, only a preference. McPhee and Slay I know weren't fall graudates and the staff was willing to wait on Mackey as well.

The issues I have with recruiting are:

(1) We don't seem to close very well and lose more than we win on 50/50 battles that come down to the last week. Now is that b/c we're not paying guys enough or that we don't sell the program well enough? Who knows. Some of it is bad luck - Newton wanted to play for MSU for instance, Brunetti's mom wanted him at MSU.....we got neither. Mackey told coaches he was signing at MSU but in the end was worried about passing a needed class so went to TT last minute....I don't put those totally on Dan.

(2) We don't recruit GA, FL and TX hard enough. Heck Croom almost landed LaMichael James. We have very few big recruits outside Mullen's stated target radius and I'm not sure there are enough good players in that area to make us competitive when we're fighting AL, AU, TN, GA and LSU plus OM for those same guys. Lots of the ACC and some Big East make their living in FL and I have to think some of those guys would prefer to play in the SEC.

(3) We've struggled with impact OL, DE and WR recruiting. The best WR we get are the slot guys and we're doing well there, but outside receivers we have missed on with the exception of Morrow thusfar. We also don't seem to have anybody with an outstanding first gear to get seperation out of cuts other than the Predator and he doesn't play much b/c he's behind Bump and Heavens and seems to fumble every fourth time he touches the ball. DE gets a bit of a pass b/c of teh Bell/McKenzie issues and I don't think any of the guys on our board we missed have been impact guys elsewhere.

I just don't think they is an awful recruiting - just average but the deck is a bit stacked against him. MSU has no winning tradition to sell,Starkville isn't a huge draw to most kids, it's impossible to dominate the small state b/c OM is always going to get their share of top recruits, other Top 10 programs are within driving distance andMS also generally has mediocre coaching at most schools to most players are very raw when they arrive.

To sum it up, it's hard. He's not a worldbeater but I don't think he's a disaster either.

 

[Irondawg]

Because I'm honestly a little tired of the "has his head up his ***" when it comes to recruiting. The guy clearly isn't the John Calipari of recruiting but I need someone to convince me he's not at least average.

We do have some holes on this team, but very few even SEC teams don't have some holes. Tackle is obviously an issue and the truth is we went after some JUCO guys - we just missed on them. It's not like quality JUCO tackles are a dime a dozen. Heck, very few JUCO players at all are really SEC starter levels and most of the ones that are were placed by a program so they're hard to turn.

I also keep seeing comments that our policy about Dec. graduation is stupid. Looks, he's shown it's not a requirement, only a preference. McPhee and Slay I know weren't fall graudates and the staff was willing to wait on Mackey as well.

The issues I have with recruiting are:

(1) We don't seem to close very well and lose more than we win on 50/50 battles that come down to the last week. Now is that b/c we're not paying guys enough or that we don't sell the program well enough? Who knows. Some of it is bad luck - Newton wanted to play for MSU for instance, Brunetti's mom wanted him at MSU.....we got neither. Mackey told coaches he was signing at MSU but in the end was worried about passing a needed class so went to TT last minute....I don't put those totally on Dan.

(2) We don't recruit GA, FL and TX hard enough. Heck Croom almost landed LaMichael James. We have very few big recruits outside Mullen's stated target radius and I'm not sure there are enough good players in that area to make us competitive when we're fighting AL, AU, TN, GA and LSU plus OM for those same guys. Lots of the ACC and some Big East make their living in FL and I have to think some of those guys would prefer to play in the SEC.

(3) We've struggled with impact OL, DE and WR recruiting. The best WR we get are the slot guys and we're doing well there, but outside receivers we have missed on with the exception of Morrow thusfar. We also don't seem to have anybody with an outstanding first gear to get seperation out of cuts other than the Predator and he doesn't play much b/c he's behind Bump and Heavens and seems to fumble every fourth time he touches the ball. DE gets a bit of a pass b/c of teh Bell/McKenzie issues and I don't think any of the guys on our board we missed have been impact guys elsewhere.

I just don't think they is an awful recruiting - just average but the deck is a bit stacked against him. MSU has no winning tradition to sell,Starkville isn't a huge draw to most kids, it's impossible to dominate the small state b/c OM is always going to get their share of top recruits, other Top 10 programs are within driving distance andMS also generally has mediocre coaching at most schools to most players are very raw when they arrive.

To sum it up, it's hard. He's not a worldbeater but I don't think he's a disaster either.

 

[Irondawg]

Because I'm honestly a little tired of the "has his head up his ***" when it comes to recruiting. The guy clearly isn't the John Calipari of recruiting but I need someone to convince me he's not at least average.

We do have some holes on this team, but very few even SEC teams don't have some holes. Tackle is obviously an issue and the truth is we went after some JUCO guys - we just missed on them. It's not like quality JUCO tackles are a dime a dozen. Heck, very few JUCO players at all are really SEC starter levels and most of the ones that are were placed by a program so they're hard to turn.

I also keep seeing comments that our policy about Dec. graduation is stupid. Looks, he's shown it's not a requirement, only a preference. McPhee and Slay I know weren't fall graudates and the staff was willing to wait on Mackey as well.

The issues I have with recruiting are:

(1) We don't seem to close very well and lose more than we win on 50/50 battles that come down to the last week. Now is that b/c we're not paying guys enough or that we don't sell the program well enough? Who knows. Some of it is bad luck - Newton wanted to play for MSU for instance, Brunetti's mom wanted him at MSU.....we got neither. Mackey told coaches he was signing at MSU but in the end was worried about passing a needed class so went to TT last minute....I don't put those totally on Dan.

(2) We don't recruit GA, FL and TX hard enough. Heck Croom almost landed LaMichael James. We have very few big recruits outside Mullen's stated target radius and I'm not sure there are enough good players in that area to make us competitive when we're fighting AL, AU, TN, GA and LSU plus OM for those same guys. Lots of the ACC and some Big East make their living in FL and I have to think some of those guys would prefer to play in the SEC.

(3) We've struggled with impact OL, DE and WR recruiting. The best WR we get are the slot guys and we're doing well there, but outside receivers we have missed on with the exception of Morrow thusfar. We also don't seem to have anybody with an outstanding first gear to get seperation out of cuts other than the Predator and he doesn't play much b/c he's behind Bump and Heavens and seems to fumble every fourth time he touches the ball. DE gets a bit of a pass b/c of teh Bell/McKenzie issues and I don't think any of the guys on our board we missed have been impact guys elsewhere.

I just don't think they is an awful recruiting - just average but the deck is a bit stacked against him. MSU has no winning tradition to sell,Starkville isn't a huge draw to most kids, it's impossible to dominate the small state b/c OM is always going to get their share of top recruits, other Top 10 programs are within driving distance andMS also generally has mediocre coaching at most schools to most players are very raw when they arrive.

To sum it up, it's hard. He's not a worldbeater but I don't think he's a disaster either.

 

[Coach34]

and that's all I have to say about that

 

[bulldogs726]

Well thought out post and I tend to agree. However last year recruiting was a disaster and that is going to smell bad until this February

 

[Irondawg]

last year did sting but it was really the CJ sting and after seeing all the twitter stuff I wonder if we didn't avoid a potential problem there. It'll be another year or so before we know how much that one will haunt us.

I don't think anybody expected us to get Brassell in the end and as I recall it was going to be suprising if he ever passed the ACT since I don't think he had even taken it as late as Dec.

But yeah, last your was a "what might have been" class, but we'll just have to wait a few years to see if it was the kind of disaster we all throught it was. If we land Peters in any part to signing Calhoun last year then I consider that a nice move by the staff late last year.

 

[Seinfeld]

1) Last year's closure of the recruiting season definitely leaves a bitter taste. We still ended up with a decent class, but how he managed to lose four top recruits to Ole Miss and Auburn at the end, I have no idea. Well ok, I do have an idea but it's still hard to understand. If not for Auburn stepping in at the last second, he would have lost all 4 to a rival school that had been beaten badly in consecutive years, had won 4 games all year, and had a coach sniffing the hot seat. Simply having a guy pick one school over MSU is one thing, but losing 3 committed guys plus a heavy lean tells me that Mullen and staff just aren't getting the job done. I've been following MSU recruiting for about 18 years now, and I cannot recall there ever being a mass exodus like that.

2) Unlike some, I don't ask for the moon in any MSU sport, but I do demand consistent good play and/or progress every year. I feel like I've seen that on the field for the most part, but recruiting has been stagnant. We've been hovering around that 35-40 ranking for 3 years now, and we still seem to be missing out on nearly all the guys that could push us into the Top 25. While it may not sound like it, I could care less about the recruiting banners. But when we have a huge hole to fill like LB, OL, or a tall WR, Mullen's got to find a way to bring them in. I'll give him credit that he's at least getting our name in the mix most of the time, but he's been coming home with an empty hook.

 

[coach66]

approach turns some kids off or at least doesn't turn them on like HDN licking their Nutt's (no pun intended) and telling them they are all 17ing world and will be four year starters from day 1. Mullen is old school and paints a pretty stark but realistic picture of how tough it is to be succesful at the SEC level and how much work is going to be required to get there; and in fact he makes it clear you will start at the bottom. Me thinks this doesn't work so well with alot of guys, especially 4 and 5 star prima donna's.

 

[FQDawg]

I'd rather a straight shooter who is up front and honest with the players he is recruiting than someone who is going to blow a lot of smoke and then have to deal with player unrest every singe year.

Other than Favre's tweet from earlier this year, which I didn't think was that big of a deal, have we really had any major player discontent since Mullen has been here? Whereas, you can just look at the circus that has been going on in Oxford for the last few years.

 

[1msucub]

I think Mullen is absolutely the right man for the job. Our fanbase is excited, our facilities are better, our games are at least closer, and we go into every game thinking we have a chance (save Bama, even though we played tough against LSU). If he starts having consistent success, he may very well jump at the first big offer he gets, and I'll wish him well.
That being said, I'm not sure that he is going to be able to recruit at the level needed to do that in what has become the toughest division in football with his philosophy.
I don't think we're clean, but let's face it.....if we were really dirty, we'd have last year's Heisman winner as an alumnus, plain and simple. I for one am proud of the fact that we didn't pay; I'm a 40 year old father of three struggling to be a good example to my kids, so you can understand my point of view. I don't think he wants to run a program like that, but I could be wrong.
He HAS to hit the JUCO's more than he has. Period. No need to sell all-out on them, but we need line help NOW. We need faster/taller receivers NOW, etc... We will not sign 5-star freshmen who can come in and contribute immediately in the SEC unless we become the most generous school in the NCAA; just ain't gonna happen.

 

[windcrysmary]

and we've just handed them their 2nd *** whippin' in a row, then something is going on... if we don't have a clue or any balls to handle something that is so damned obvious and easy to correct, then we better learn how to fix it and I mean this 17ing year...

there was NO excuse to allow the REBELS... that's right the Ole Miss Rebels... program in total disaray.. we were on a big time high.. and we allowed those Plantation LOSERS *** rape us ....

we have NO shot at progressing if we can't figure out how to lure top quality Miss players away from the plantation to Miss State... that HAS to be the first order of business... and if you think about it, it should NOT be that hard... let's go calling their commits right now and *** 17 them the way they did us last year... why not?

 

[coachdaddy]

Go to Kansas, Iowa, and Nebraska. Recruit some of those big white long haired maulers. I mean we can offer great weather and some of the finest *** black co-eds around. No way they can get that in the Mid-West. Reverse recruiting stratagies 101.

 

[patdog]

we're better off without. See the Bears kicking our *** in recruiting for at least 6 years in a row vs. us winning on the field the last 2 years and 4 of the last 6.

 

[maroonmania]

then you should definitely say more. Everyone here is saying the coaching staff has put up the stop sign to any alumni intervention in our recruiting and I don't think you are talking about MSU alumni postings on recruits' facebook pages or Tyrone's printouts of Sixpack postings as being the problem, so how are the alumni more to blame than Mullen and his staff? Heck, its the alumni that's funding his 2.6 million dollar salary, its alumni that are filling Davis Wade every Saturday, its alumni that are building the new football facility and on and on. Its Mullen's job to get enough SEC talented players during the recruiting process NOT the alumni's. If the staff can't do it on their own then I guess they should be requesting help from the alumni not squashing it like they did with the Newton affair.

 

[studentdawg87]

They're is a reason those school always try to recruit the Southeast, and it is because there is far more talent down here. Also, have you watched a game where the so-called Midwestern maulers go up against an SEC DL? It ain't pretty.

 

[Todd4State]

While Texas, Florida, California, and Georgia have a ton of good players, there is a misconception that a three star player from one of those states is somehow better than a three star player from Mississippi. The truth is, they're not.

And it's also not like we're the only school recruiting those states- everyone else in the country is as well. So, even if a guy is Florida, FSU, Miami's scraps- if it comes down to going to going to MSU or South Carolina, they're probably going to go to South Carolina. Yeah, we can get a few decent players there, but it's not like it's some untapped goldmine with future all-pros running around.

What we need are four-five star out of state guys. The three star out of state guys don't do us any more good than our three star in state guys. And yes, I'm sure there are some Dexter McCluster's, just like there are some in state diamonds in the rough that come out of nowhere and do well also- and probably at the same rate.

The fact of the matter is, most of our four star guys come from Mississippi, and some of our better out of state guys like McPhee went to a Mississippi JUCO first.

Personally, if anything I think we should recruit Mississippi more, take more Mississippians and guys from Memphis and take fewer guys from Alabama, and go after more out of state guys like Jason Croom.

Think about our best players last year and where they were from- Sherrod, White, McPhee, Wright, Hutchins- all from Mississippi or went to a Mississippi JUCO. And then in the past- AD, Norwood, Justin Jenkins, Smoot, Randy Thomas, Johnie Cooks, Kent Hull, Moulds, etc. All were from Mississippi. Who was our last really good player that was from another state? Titus Brown? I'm sure there were some, but clearly not as many as we have gotten from Mississippi.

 

[coachdaddy]

that one went right over your head- didnt it sport?

 

[Irondawg]

OM took Tobias and Brassell - it amazes me that anybody on this board doesn't think that was going to happen even with Hud. Getting players from MC and SP that OM wants is going to be incredibly tough - period. It still shocks me that Pegues chose MSU.

The only one that suprised the heck out of me was CJ and I think everybody was on the board enough to know the story there. Whitehead had been flippant for month and seemed to be easily influenced and have his hand out ("it's business coach").

So I don't think the Bears really kicked our *** in recruiting - we got a good shot to the nuts with CJ and Whitehead was disappointing. We either pay up on those situations or we don't. Last year we clearly didn't. We'll see what happens this year but the bummer is that Ward seems to want to go play for LSU or Bama b/c of the chance to win the ring regardless of anything else.

I'm still hoping we can land R. Brown, keep James and get him elgible and get Evans. Then if Ward goes to Bama maybe we can get Autry. I'd be happy with that on the DL.

 

[bulldogbaja]

Are you really issuing an open call to alumni? To Joe Blow who knows absolutely nothing about compliance or the NCAA? I am sure that this stuff goes on at practically every D-1 football program but we do NOT need Farmer John walking up to recruits in downtown Rolling Fork handing him Benjamins. We do NOT need business owners loaning recruits tires or taking them on fishing trips for free. That is absolutely how players and programs get in trouble. I cannot believe that someone who at times seems to show a glimmer of intelligence would really get on a public message board and suggest to the masses to "do something about it," as you basically did earlier. This thread, as well as any in which you make the same comment, should be deleted.

 

[MSDawg34]

Antionio Johnson (Colts DT) not the CB, Tommy Kelly, Donald Lee, Ellis Wyms
All from Mississippi

To answer Todd's question Big Country David Stewart was from Georgia and Ronald Fields from Louisiana but you are correct that the majority of our stars are homegrown

 

[studentdawg87]

NT

 

[maroonmania]

obviously in the SEC it doesn't get you in much trouble anymore. In fact, I will go so far as to say its VERY difficult to get in trouble for illegal RECRUITING anymore. I mean look at who is getting in hot water, Ohio State, Miami, USC... ALL for providing extra benefits to CURRENT PLAYERS, not recruits. Its been quite a while, probably since Kramer was running the SEC, that a program actually got in trouble for their illegally recruiting of players they were trying to sign.

 

[aTotal360]

OM took Tobias and Brassell...

Brassell was never going to go to Statebecauseof his Gateway Tire ties and Tobias found himself in dire need of legal representation. <div>
</div><div>CJ was just a greatexampleof "great recruiting" in the South. </div><div>UM took advantage of the Army game, used the Diaz angle to perfection, had Patrick Willis "bump into him" in Oxford, and sealed the deal with access to vehicles and probably some spending money. Too much "wining and dining" for a 17 year old out of Philadelphia, MS to pass up. Short term thinking will always prevail when it comes to recroots.</div><div>
</div><div>With that being said, we HAVE to take a page out of their book. The NCAA doesn't seem to mind.</div>

 

[FISHDAWG]

big farm hands

 

[Maroonlegacy]

The state of Mississippi has some of the best talent in the country. You can look from Cali to Florida and not find any players better than Channing Ward and Quay Evans. The trick is getting some of our kids in school.

Back in the day Alabama used to cherry pick out of Mississippi. Some of Alabama's best players were originally from Mississippi. Since Saban's arrival Bama has had some, but not a lot of success in Mississippi. It appears that Saban has shifted Bama's focus to the state of Georgia. Why has he done this? 2 reasons:
1) Georgia kids are easier to get in school.
2) Ole Miss is dirty and cheats like hell.

I say all that to say that MSU has an opportunity like never before to start keeping the in-state studs in state. Ole Miss is down, Bama recruits nationally and with only a few exceptions they tend to overlook the state of Mississippi. Last year the atmosphere was near perfect for us to clean house in state....right now it's far from perfect but it still can be done given the fact that Nutt is on his way out.

Mullen has to:
1) keep the top tier kids in state. Quay's, Ward's, Alford's, Brassell's, CJ's
2) evaluate the under the radar talent like nobody else in the game. ---this is probably more important than #1. Mississippi is an under the radar state. Like I said above, we have the talent, we just need to do a better job of finding them.

Mullen seems like a guy that can sell a ketchup Popsicle to a women in white gloves. It baffles me that he hasn't had more success on the recruiting trail. And if the bears are cheating (we know they are....Dunlap, nuff said) then we need to bust their ***. It's beyond ridiculous what's been going on up there.

 

[perch0]

I'm not for paying players but would contribute to a fund that keeps absolute tabs on the top ten to fifteen recruits in state. Ready, Camera, Action.

 

[maroonmania]

Slive would just get possession of them and have them burned.

 

[studentdawg87]

Bama is a serious player for Liggins, Ward and Evans this year, and they have been pretty active in Mississippi ever since Saban took over. They may not land every Mississippi kid they want, but they are very aware that some quality recruits reside within the Magnolia State.

Neither Ole Miss nor State is ever going to land every top-flight Ms. recruit. It will simply never happen. Mississippi has plenty of talent, but it doesn't have plenty of talent for three DI schools. In coach at Ole Miss or State is going to have to be able to recruit the entire Southeast as well as Mississippi.

Mullen can sell the program to fans, but he doesn't take the same approach with recruiting. He doesn't sugarcoat things, and he tells recruits how hard it is going to be. That approach doesn't always work.

 

[Maroonlegacy]

I don't think I said Saban doesn't recruit Mississippi or doesn't recruit Mississippi hard. He does. He recruits everywhere hard. But it's not like it was 20 years ago when the state of Mississippi was Alabama jr.

I think Bama will land 1 of the 3 you mentioned. That leaves 2 for us.

We don't have to land every top flight recruit but we need to land a majority. We failed miserably at this last year.

Whatever Mullen is doing sugarcoat approach or not, he needs to step it up or do things differently. Cause whatever he is currently doing it doesn't appear to be working.

 

[maroonmania]

there are 2 issues you have to deal with regarding the HS talent in MS:

1. Higher percentage of kids that can't qualify to play at an SEC school and the SEC is talking about raising standards again.
2. Talent is on average more underdeveloped than most neighboring states due to lack of funds in many schools to keep a quality coaching staff and stay up to date and maintain proper weight training equipment.

 

[msudogsrule01]

These make winning in Mississippi harder than anything else. Our crappy public education system holds back a ton of great things for our state, including recruiting. It will take somebody with some seriouspoliticalwillpower and a complete reversal of the populace's handling of things to move in the right direction. But, hell, we can't even get rid of the Confederate flag from our state flag, so how the hell will we ever fix education.

 

[digdawg]

As I've said earlier, if Mullen was recruitng well, then why can so few of the players that he recruited in the past two years make the starting lineup? And of those who do except for Vick Ballard (and Perkins), none of them are stars or look to be before they graduate. Usually when a coach comes in he wants to get his recruits into his system, but Mullen's success has come with Croom's recruits. Look what happened when Tobias Smith went down and he had to use one of his OL. The OL went to pieces. If Carmon hadn't come back then we wouldn't have scored on Saturday
The D is almost all Croom recruits - only one player in the starting lineup on defense against South Carolina was a Mullen recruit - Kaleb Eullis.
*One* starter on defense is a Mullen recruit or committment. And our defense is clearly the strength of the team.
This will show more fully after next year becausea lot of the Croom guys are juniors this year. But when they graduate, watch out. I don't see how we will be competitive with what Mullen has recruited. If Mullen had just recruited a few starters so far that were good, this season might have been very differnet. </p>

 

[thatsbaseball]

nm</p>

 

[maroonmania]

are in the JR class (and RS SO) which was BY FAR the best class Croom ever recruited BUT it was held together and added to by Mullen so Dan gets some credit on that class as well. I too do not think Mullen's classes since then have been as good overall but I'm not freaking out that the current So and Fr classes aren't producing stars just yet. First, Mullen has shown that he much favors playing older guys unless a young guy is just far and away better and secondly Mullen has redshirted a ton of players so most of the players from Mullen's first class without Croom's help are just now redshirt freshmen so his guys are just now starting to get playing time anyway. I think the only guys that got time last year from Mullen's first full class were Michael Carr and Chris Hughes.

 

[sardis]

He's learning, he's up against the best there is, so he will loose some. I really think that his stated strategy to focus on Mississippi High Schoolsmay begood long term strategy, but has hurt him short term. I also think for that to be successful, you have to win 70% of the time and he's not doing that yet, not sure you can with the die hard fans up north.

To get to the next level, I think he will have to recruit better out of state, I saw him move towards Louisiana last year a little more, more Florida would help.

 

[RiverCityDawg]

Antionio Johnson (Colts DT) not the CB, Tommy Kelly, Donald Lee, Ellis Wyms
All from Mississippi

To answer Todd's question Big Country David Stewart was from Georgia and Ronald Fields from Louisiana but you are correct that the majority of our stars are homegrown

David Stewart is from Alabama, but obviously still out-of-state.

 

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

Nm

 

[shsdawg]

Slive already tried to throw us under the bus for reporting the Cam stuff. He will lead the lynch mob if he gets ANYTHING on us. </p>

 

[SnakePlissken]

question Big Country David Stewart was from Georgia

 

[Hector.sixpack]

Thanks.