Leland Gets Screwed

[ExtremeDog]

Now we have instant replay in high school football.

<h1>MHSAA changes outcome of football playoff game</h1> <p class="ratingbyline">By Rod Walker • [email protected] • November 18, 2008</p> <div class="article-tools"></div> <div class="article-bodytext">

The Mississippi High School Activities Association has re-instated Walnut into the football playoffs after a controversial ending in last Friday night's game against Leland.
</p>

Leland won the game 24-21, but today the MHSAA's executive committee reversed a ruling made by the game officials in the waning seconds and handed the victory to Walnut, 21-18.

After reviewing video of the final two plays of the game, including a 20-yard touchdown pass by Leland on the final play, the MHSAA disallowed the touchdown.

The executive committee's vote was 10-1, with one abstention, according to Walnut coach Timmy Moore.

Walnut (9-3) will host Eupora Friday in the Class 2A quarterfinals.

Leland finished the season with a 9-3 record.

"We are real pleased with it," said Moore, the Walnut coach. "We felt like the activities association and executive committee would do the right thing and correct a wrong."

MHSAA officials did not return phone calls seeking comment.</p> </div>

 

[ExtremeDog]

Now we have instant replay in high school football.

<h1>MHSAA changes outcome of football playoff game</h1> <p class="ratingbyline">By Rod Walker • [email protected] • November 18, 2008</p> <div class="article-tools"></div> <div class="article-bodytext">

The Mississippi High School Activities Association has re-instated Walnut into the football playoffs after a controversial ending in last Friday night's game against Leland.
</p>

Leland won the game 24-21, but today the MHSAA's executive committee reversed a ruling made by the game officials in the waning seconds and handed the victory to Walnut, 21-18.

After reviewing video of the final two plays of the game, including a 20-yard touchdown pass by Leland on the final play, the MHSAA disallowed the touchdown.

The executive committee's vote was 10-1, with one abstention, according to Walnut coach Timmy Moore.

Walnut (9-3) will host Eupora Friday in the Class 2A quarterfinals.

Leland finished the season with a 9-3 record.

"We are real pleased with it," said Moore, the Walnut coach. "We felt like the activities association and executive committee would do the right thing and correct a wrong."

MHSAA officials did not return phone calls seeking comment.</p> </div>

 

[Xenomorph]

*

 

[patdog]

I don't care what happend on those 2 plays, it's completely unfair to change it 4 days later. And what about Eupora? They've been preparing to play Leland and now have only a couple of days to get ready for Walnut. What a joke of an organization.

 

[benatmsu]

... like 20 men on the field for Leland, or Illegal Baby Eating on the offense. Because if not, the MHSAA just set themselves up for a lot of extra work in the coming years. Every little highschool coach that thinks they're wronged by officiating will be lining up at Ennis Proctor's door ever Monday next fall.

 

[jakldawg]

[No message]

 

[patdog]

and file for a court injunction to either force the MHSAA to let Leland play on Friday or postpone the playoff game. I'm not real big on filing frivolous lawsuits, but I think he'd have a pretty good case, no matter what happened on the field those 2 plays.

 

[Paper Dog]

Down 21-18, Leland had the ball on the Walnut 33 yard line

Leland QB runs 18 yards and is tackled at the 15 yard line, as he goes down he throws the ball forward to the 10 yard line, it is picked up at the 10 and run in ---- the officials signal touchdown

Leland is flagged for an illegal forward pass

Walnut is given two options - decline the penalty and accept the play which was a touchdown or accept the penalty giving Leland an untimed down at the Walnut 25 yard line (10 yard penalty from the spot)

On the untimed down, Leland throws a 25 yard pass for a touchdown

Obviously, Leland should have been flagged for an illegal forward pass and the game should have ended

Have to say the MHSAA got this one right

Meanwhile, the officiating crew should never ever call again</p>

 

[abitadawg]

<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1"> <tbody> <tr> <td valign="top"> <font size="4" face="Tahoma"><font size="2">I don't know the rules well enough to know if this is a loophole that allows a second play or not.</font></font><font size="4" face="Tahoma">

Walnut disputes that football season is over</font>

<font size="2" face="Tahoma">11/18/2008 11:02:21 AM
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<font size="2" face="Tahoma">By Gene Phelps
Daily Journal

Walnut's football players will have their fingers crossed this morning as they await a ruling from the Mississippi High School Activities Association about the controversial ending of Friday's state playoff game against Leland.

What's at stake is the Wildcats' football season.
The Class 2A second-round game, played in Leland, ended with the home team scoring a touchdown for a 24-21 victory with no time remaining.

According to Walnut coach Tim Moore, Leland was called for an illegal forward pass on the game's final play. He was told by officials if he declined the penalty it would result in a score for Leland.

"My argument was that there are no untimed downs after an offensive penalty," Moore said. "I told them the game should be over."

Moore had no other option other than to accept the penalty, which allowed Leland an extra play with no time remaining. The Cubs scored the winning TD on a pass.

After the game, a couple of Moore's players told him the pass was never caught by the Leland receiver on the final play in question. Instead, they said the receiver scooped the ball off the ground.

"The ball hit the ground," Moore said. "We saw it on film. It was a desperation pass by their quarterback as he was being tackled ... 18 yards past the line of scrimmage."

Moore, who filed an official protest Monday, and high school principal Jay McCoy are scheduled to attend a hearing at the MHSAA offices in Clinton today.

"It was a misapplication of the rule that gave them the win," Moore said. "We don't want to come across as sore losers, but we want to do what's right for our kids.

"We feel like our kids won the game, 21-18."

If declared the winner by the MHSAA, Walnut would play Eupora in the state quarterfinals this week instead of Leland.

The Wildcats won their first playoff game in school history two weeks ago when they defeated West Tallahatchie, 38-0, in the opening round.

Moore has told his players that a favorable ruling from the MHSAA is "not a sure thing."

"I made sure they know it's only an opportunity," he said.</font>
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[dgsmith15]

Illegal Baby Eating on the offense

That's only a 5 yard penalty in Alabama.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

From the November 29, 2002 Clarion-Ledger...

In the mid-1980s, USM was trailing ECU in Greenville, N.C., when the Golden Eagles completed a last-second pass. The ball was intentionally fumbled forward and USM took it deep into Pirate territory. USM was penalized for an illegal lateral, but at the time, the game could not end on an offensive penalty , the Golden Eagles got one more snap, and kicked the game-winning field goal .

That set off a near-riot, and an ECU fan came out of the stands to pop an official in the back of the head as he was leaving the field . The NCAA changed the offensive- penalty rule the next year.

 

[615dawg]

because after hearing what happened, the MHSAA got it right - but this should have been reviewed Friday night/Saturday morning, not Tuesday afternoon.

 

[hotdigitydog]

an offensive penalty with 0 seconds left in the game. The game should've ended with that play and penalty. However, the officials marked the penalty off and Leland subsequently scored afterwards. We all know that the game cannot end on a defensive penalty, however, this was offensive. The game should've been over. The coach argued the point to no avail and the MHSAA overturned it. I agree w/the decision.

 

[lawdawg02]

there is a loophole, or at least there used to be.

i remember at the national flag football tournament, a buddy of mine was a ref, and he told us about it. said it was the same (at the time) in regular football. since the defense actually has to ACCEPT the penalty, then there is one more untimed down. if they can decline the penalty, then it doesn't matter - they decline and game over.

basically, if you're down to your last play, and you have to score, and you realize you're about to go down, throw it forward into the end zone to a teammate. at least you get one more play.

now, whether they have changed the rule I have no idea.

 

[lawdawg02]

We all know that the game cannot end on a defensive penalty, however, this was offensive.

the reasoning, though, is that the game cannot end on an accepted penalty. if there is a defensive penalty, and the offense declines, the game CAN end on a defensive penalty. the same applies to the offense.

if it was a holding call, and the offense scores, then same result - the defense must take the penalty, but the offense gets to replay the down.

 

[hotdigitydog]

does make a DISTINCT difference. This is one screwed up situation. I can really see both sides of the coin on this one..

 

[LimpinDawg]

but clearly it sounds like Walnut was the team that got screwed here. I hear the officials are done for the rest of the season as well as next year. I feel bad for the Leland players but I think the MHSAA got it right.

 

[Todd4State]

who finds it humerous that the team that get the call reversed is called the Cubs?

 

[wpnetdawg]

it appears that the referees had it right.

Look at both pages 76 and 111 of the following link:
Officiating Football

 

[xxxWalkTheDawg]

I don't care what happend on those 2 plays, it's completely unfair to change it 4 days later. And what about Eupora? They've been preparing to play Leland and now have only a couple of days to get ready for Walnut. What a joke of an organization.

Eupora could have went out for pizza instead of practice all week and not be in bad shape to play Walnut. Baldwyn laid the wood to Walnut and Eupora will too.

 

[topbulldawg]

it appears that the referees had it right.

Look at both pages 76 and 111 of the following ]I did find my 2008 copy of the HS football rulebook: It states as follows:

"3-3-3....A period must be extended by an untimed down if during the last timed down of the period, one of the following occured:
a. There is a foul by either team and the penalty is accepted, except for those fouls listed in 3-3-4b"

Times where it is not extended:
'3-3-4b There was a foul by either team and the penalty is accepted for:
1) unsportsmanlike fouls
2) non-player fouls
3) fouls that specify a loss of down
4) etc."

So this tells me the game should have ended because illegal forward pass is a loss of down penalty. I don't think the game should have been overturned. The coach should have known this rule and had a rulebook on the sideline with him and asked the referee to look at it.

 

[wpnetdawg]

He has the rule copied and pasted from the 2008 rule book. Apparently, the refs did in fact get it wrong and the MHSAA got it right.

 

[VirgilCain]

I love getting my *** handed to me in ping pong and then on the last point i spend a good 20 minutes attempting to get the perfect un-returnable serve in. It really pisses people off. I have no idea why I'm typing about ping pong but I'm going to let it ride. Balls of Furyku!

 

[dawgoneyall]

Walnut was screwed. The game was over with Walnut in the lead. End of discussion.

 

[BewareOfMSUDawg]

Apparently the curse of the billy goat extends to anything Cubs-related.

 

[Uncle Leo]

I don't think the MHSAA should change the result of a game based on a judgment call by an official.

But when the officials fail to apply the rules correctly, it's only fair to make things right.</p>

 

[o_riverdawg]

When an illegal forward pass hits the ground, the play should be ruled dead where the ball hit. Therefore, the play should not have been ruled a touchdown in the first place. They got that wrong as well as allowing an untimed down, which should not have been allowed. The MHSAA was absolutely right to overturn the result of the game, because the referees got not one, but two rules wrong.

 

[patdog]

What is MHSAA going to do next year when something like this happens at the end of the half instead of at the end of the game? You can't just overturn the call because that call would have affected the score which would have affected how the entire second half was played. They've potentially really opened a Pandora's box with this one.

 

[Ole Miss Grad]

Walnut's coach filed an immediate protest.

It wasn't his fault they didn't get around to making a decision until 4 days later.

 

[patdog]

The MHSAA should have, at the very least, ruled on the protest on Saturday or Sunday at the latest. As it stands now, Eupora will have spent more time getting ready to play Leland on Friday than they will have spent getting ready to play Walnut. And that's certainly not fair to them.

 

[Xenomorph]

..a governing body whose membership is spread out all over the state could convene in 12 hours notice, review all the facts and hand down a ruling... do you?

Let's see how it probably played out...

Friday night at 9:30, the officials screw the pooch.
Friday night at 10:30 Dr. Proctor hears there may be a situation with Leland/Walnut.
Saturday there is a flurry of phone calls, emails, texts and shouts to the heavens trying to discern the facts.
Monday the board members are contacted and brought up to speed on the situation.
Tuesday morning they rule.

Please tell me how you feel the process could have been expedited?

 

[Ole Miss Grad]

On the surface it appears unfair. But in truth, Eupora has a better chance against Walnut.</p>

</p>

</p>

Go Eagles!</p>

 

[patdog]

And nobody has even touched my main point, which was that the MHSAA has opened up a Pandora's box by doing this. How are they going to handle similar situations that happen at the end of the first half instead of at the end of the game? What are they going to do next week when a dozen coaches decide to file a protest?

 

[Hector.sixpack]

What is MHSAA going to do next year when something like this happens at the end of the half instead of at the end of the game? You can't just overturn the call because that call would have affected the score which would have affected how the entire second half was played. They've potentially really opened a Pandora's box with this one.

How many calls do referees make that are totally against the rules set in place? Very few because most are judgement calls. How many of those that are wrong really affect the outcome of a game? I suspect even less, but when they do somebody has got to resolve the issue. In many games bad calls are made that may or may not affect the outcome- but in this game we know for a fact that the refs mistake decided the game.

I agree though- overturning the call 4 days later looks terrible- but I don't think it's going to matter, Eupora will dominate.

 

[Xenomorph]

...agree to disagree about it being possible to rule on it by Sunday. I've seen the way that committee operates up close, and I'll vouch (with whatever internet cred I have) for them doing the best job possible and being absolute professionals.

Pandora's Box?.. Similar situations?.. If a similar situation arises again, I'd expect them to handle it in a similar manner. But as it stands, this was not a judgment call like pass interference or offensive holding. It was a huge mistake as time expired that involved specific rules of play. I'll wager it'll be along time before a similar situation arises again.

 

[Eureka Dog]

the penalty was accepted. The Walnut coach, if he truly knew the rule, should have taken his team off of the field and forced the hand of the officiating crew and the MHSAA. Of course, I realize that would be tough to actually do that, but, by rule, the game was over, no matter if the refs let Leland run 15 more plays. For once the MHSAA got something right. And since it was the last play of the game, that play didn't affect the "rest of the game".</p>

I do have a BIG problem with the Leland coach if he knew the rules and let the refs continue the game without confronting them.</p>

One more thing... Have you EVER seen a ref consult a rule book during the game? For the life of me, I don't understand why they don't have rule book in their back pocket to consult in such an unusual situation.
</p>

 

[LimpinDawg]

This was a major screwup by the refs that needed to be dealt with. If you were in the Walnut coach's shoes, I'll bet that you wouldn't hesitate to do the same thing. Obviously, the refs thought that this would get overlooked but I applaud the Walnut staff for standing up for their kids. In the end, the right team moves on to the next round. As far as a Pandora's box being opened up and even if more protests are filed, that's why they have the executive commitee on hand to deal with it. That's why the earn the big bucks. </p>

 

[Stormrider81]

"For the life of me, I don't understand why they don't have rule book in their back pocket to consult in such an unusual situation."

No kidding. Of course, your suggestion involves a little thing called common sense.