LeBron or Michael

[Solana Beach Husker]

Start with this question.

What is Jordan's finals record if he had to face the spurs three times and the warriors 4 times? 6 of those teams are top 20 teams of all time. Better than any team Jordan beat for his 6 championships. Jordan had the best 3 point shooter of all time, the best rebounder of all time, one of the best defenders of all time. He played in an era of illegal defense where the rules forced 1 on 1 play, and defenses couldn't sag off of non-shooters. Jordan was a poor 3 point shooter, with today's defenses and Rodman in the game they would have sagged off jordan and then surrounded him with 3 defenders...sealing off the lane.

 

[jeans15]

Start with this question.

What is Jordan's finals record if he had to face the spurs three times and the warriors 4 times? 6 of those teams are top 20 teams of all time. Better than any team Jordan beat for his 6 championships. Jordan had the best 3 point shooter of all time, the best rebounder of all time, one of the best defenders of all time. He played in an era of illegal defense where the rules forced 1 on 1 play, and defenses couldn't sag off of non-shooters. Jordan was a poor 3 point shooter, with today's defenses and Rodman in the game they would have sagged off jordan and then surrounded him with 3 defenders...sealing off the lane.

Dallas Mavericks 2011

End of discussion.


Wait. Sag off Jordan...lmao.....That's what they did at the beginning of his career we he was averaging 30 a game.

The things people say to make excuses for LeBron are incredible.

The damn Warriors play guys who can't hit a shot to save their life now. They have never played a team as Ggreat as the Bulls.

 

[9and4_rivals188421]

Dikembe. No doubt about it.

 

[Headcard]

Trick question. The correct answer is LaMichael James.

 

[red scowl]

There was supposed to be a laughing emoji with my reply that you're wrong, clearly your not wrong. It's all subjective.

 

[red scowl]

Start with this question.

What is Jordan's finals record if he had to face the spurs three times and the warriors 4 times? 6 of those teams are top 20 teams of all time. Better than any team Jordan beat for his 6 championships. Jordan had the best 3 point shooter of all time, the best rebounder of all time, one of the best defenders of all time. He played in an era of illegal defense where the rules forced 1 on 1 play, and defenses couldn't sag off of non-shooters. Jordan was a poor 3 point shooter, with today's defenses and Rodman in the game they would have sagged off jordan and then surrounded him with 3 defenders...sealing off the lane.

He would have gotten fifty points from the foul line and alot of players would have fouled out.

 

[red scowl]

If I was an owner, and I could pick from the greatest NBA players to start my team. First pick: Michael Jordan, second pick: Ferdinand Lew Alcindor.

After that, it gets dicey. JMO.

Edit: Io_a sucks

 

[BroskiRed]

Respectfully...those guys weren't as skilled offensively as these guys are today.

Holla

Respectfully don’t agree at all with this. It’s noteworthy these days when guys can hit a midrange shot or pass the ball. During MJs era that wasn’t uncommon. Remember the Rockets teams from that era with Olajuwon etc. skill doesn’t have a era or timeframe I would argue that it’s just different from era to era depending on the competition and style of the great players of said era. Players were just as skilled just different in the makeup of their game.

 

[Baxter48_rivals204143]

Start with this question.

What is Jordan's finals record if he had to face the spurs three times and the warriors 4 times? 6 of those teams are top 20 teams of all time. Better than any team Jordan beat for his 6 championships. Jordan had the best 3 point shooter of all time, the best rebounder of all time, one of the best defenders of all time. He played in an era of illegal defense where the rules forced 1 on 1 play, and defenses couldn't sag off of non-shooters. Jordan was a poor 3 point shooter, with today's defenses and Rodman in the game they would have sagged off jordan and then surrounded him with 3 defenders...sealing off the lane.

Let's see Jordan faced the pistons the celtics,the sixers,nicks let alone lakers jazz rockets both Jordan and bird and magic had injuries lebron has been lucky injury free and the competition back then was better, what maybe 2 teams each division now

 

[Solana Beach Husker]

Let's see Jordan faced the pistons the celtics,the sixers,nicks let alone lakers jazz rockets both Jordan and bird and magic had injuries lebron has been lucky injury free and the competition back then was better, what maybe 2 teams each division now

And he lost to celtics, pistons his first 5-6 years...and waited for the better teams to retire away. Lebron never had that opportunity...imagine if the jazz added Charles Barkley and Shawn Kemp...that is the type of team that lebron has to beat. Having more better teams is easier to win a championship against because the talent is spread out...and the finals teams are weaker like the Jazz, Sonics, and Suns. There might be 28 trash teams but Lebron still has to beat the teams with 4 all stars to win a championship.

 

[Wasker77]

Without comparing the leagues they each played in, its not a fair comparison. The league today is much more full of offensive and defensive talent than the league Michael played in, and that has something to do with it. I'm not claiming Michael's NBA was void of talent, but there are MANY more skilled and athletic players in the league today than there were back then.

You must be a kid. The NBA has better three point shooters, now. That is about it. The NBA was far more physical during the Jordan years than what is now. Jordan had to go against the front line of the Sixers, the Celtics (Bird, Parrish and McHale), Houston and LA. People have mentioned LeBron going against Laimbeer. He was not anywhere close to being the toughest players amongst the "Bad Boys" That title easily goes to Rick Mahorn. He was a bad boy.

 

[Tuco Ramirez]

The NBA got rid of hand checking (along with other rules changes) because they wanted more scoring. Period.

That’s one small example of why comparing players from different eras is futile.

There is no comparing NFL QB stats from the last 5 years to the stats of QB’s from the 70s. Because the game and rules are completely different.

Exactly. Evolution was mentioned earlier. There is misconception that is evolution is a straight line of improvement is some absolute sense. It's not. Animals evolve to fit their environment. In asking "Lebron or Michael" you have to qualify "1996 or 2018?" The skillset that may have dominated one environment would be blunted in another.

 

[9and4_rivals188421]

Put LeBron in a pair of these, and there's no question who's better:

 

[Baxter48_rivals204143]

You must be a kid. The NBA has better three point shooters, now. That is about it. The NBA was far more physical during the Jordan years than what is now. Jordan had to go against the front line of the Sixers, the Celtics (Bird, Parrish and McHale), Houston and LA. People have mentioned LeBron going against Laimbeer. He was not anywhere close to being the toughest players amongst the "Bad Boys" That title easily goes to Rick Mahorn. He was a bad boy.

And in those days they actually played basketball or a form of it. I can't watch it today imo it's pretty garbage. Go down the court either throw up a 3 or dunk it.

 

[Kakdawg]

Respectfully don’t agree at all with this. It’s noteworthy these days when guys can hit a midrange shot or pass the ball. During MJs era that wasn’t uncommon. Remember the Rockets teams from that era with Olajuwon etc. skill doesn’t have a era or timeframe I would argue that it’s just different from era to era depending on the competition and style of the great players of said era. Players were just as skilled just different in the makeup of their game.

I guess I can see where you are going with this. I guess we just differ a bit. Now I agree with you the mid game is really a lost artform. Guys don't really take that shot much now. BUT I think that's more of a byproduct of the game changing. Passes to a lesser degree I can see but not near to the same level as the mid game. There are still plenty guys that can flat out pass the ball around. I think it gets lost upon many because 20-25 years ago that was mainly done by pgs. NOW since the game has changed you see more guys able to make plays passing the ball.

I guess that's one reason why I think guys are more skilled. These guys (especially bigs) can do much more than what the bigs of that era could. It's not even close iyam.

No question in my mind that if a LBJ wanted to he could EASILY put up John Stockton type numbers at assisting the basketball. All the while being a dominant scorer.

Maybe using LBJ is a bad example because he isn't the norm but I think I'm saying is now you have more guys capable of doing many more things with the ball from an offensive skill set than ever before.

From what I remember generally in that era guys had a certain thing they did...and they done that. You wouldn't see a 4 leading the break, a C shooting a 3s, a Wing leading a team in assists, a PG leading a team in scoring (rare) . But now it's not a stretch to see any of that. It takes a higher level of skills for things like that to happen imoe.


Holla

 

[oldjar07]

Let's see Jordan faced the pistons the celtics,the sixers,nicks let alone lakers jazz rockets both Jordan and bird and magic had injuries lebron has been lucky injury free and the competition back then was better, what maybe 2 teams each division now

The competition today is much better. The Warriors are the best team ever put together, even including those Jordan Bulls teams. The league is more athletic top to bottom than in the 80s and 90s. Nearly every team has a playmaker that can single handedly win games and role players are expected to do much more now than they used to. Just because of how dominant the Cavs and Warriors have been lately doesn't mean there's no competition in the NBA. It's just that those teams have multiple All Star level players which is needed in today's NBA. You can't win with just 1 All Star player anymore.

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

The competition today is much better. The Warriors are the best team ever put together, even including those Jordan Bulls teams. The league is more athletic top to bottom than in the 80s and 90s. Nearly every team has a playmaker that can single handedly win games and role players are expected to do much more now than they used to. Just because of how dominant the Cavs and Warriors have been lately doesn't mean there's no competition in the NBA. It's just that those teams have multiple All Star level players which is needed in today's NBA. You can't win with just 1 All Star player anymore.

The league is totally different. I would argue that showtime Lakers and 80’s Celtics has as much star power as this Warriors team.

There is a lack of physical play. Guys like LBJ wouldn’t drive the lane bullying players like they do now. Every little touch is a foul now days. There is very little team basketball. It is a bunch of isolation 1 on 1 plays where the guy with the ball shoots or gets fouled.

 

[Redscarlet]

The competition today is much better. The Warriors are the best team ever put together, even including those Jordan Bulls teams. The league is more athletic top to bottom than in the 80s and 90s. Nearly every team has a playmaker that can single handedly win games and role players are expected to do much more now than they used to. Just because of how dominant the Cavs and Warriors have been lately doesn't mean there's no competition in the NBA. It's just that those teams have multiple All Star level players which is needed in today's NBA. You can't win with just 1 All Star player anymore.

Matter of opinion. Lakers and Celtics had more than one star on their teams that could win games..

Jabbar, Magic, Worthy and Copper
Bird, McHale, Parrish, Maxwell and Dennis Johnson...

The game today is stand around the top of perimeter and let players go one on one to the basket and kick it out if stopped toward the basket..

I’ll agree that their are better perimeter shooters or more of them but not talented as the Lakers, Celtics or even Pistons.

 

[ThrowBones92]

You must be a kid. The NBA has better three point shooters, now. That is about it. The NBA was far more physical during the Jordan years than what is now. Jordan had to go against the front line of the Sixers, the Celtics (Bird, Parrish and McHale), Houston and LA. People have mentioned LeBron going against Laimbeer. He was not anywhere close to being the toughest players amongst the "Bad Boys" That title easily goes to Rick Mahorn. He was a bad boy.

What's your definition of "a kid"? I watched those teams play.

What you mean is Rick Mahorn was the dirtiest of the bad boys. Again, there is a difference between physicality and cheap shots. This game, today, is more physical. The games back then, you're right, had plenty of cheap shots. It's been refereed out of today's game, and that's a good thing.

 

[jeans15]

What's your definition of "a kid"? I watched those teams play.

What you mean is Rick Mahorn was the dirtiest of the bad boys. Again, there is a difference between physicality and cheap shots. This game, today, is more physical. The games back then, you're right, had plenty of cheap shots. It's been refereed out of today's game, and that's a good thing.

It's not more. Cheap shot foul was part of the play. They don't do that to guys now. No way. They give the lay up or dunk up 99% of the time.

Back then you paid a price at times going to the basket. Not even close now.

 

[timnsun]

What's your definition of "a kid"? I watched those teams play.

What you mean is Rick Mahorn was the dirtiest of the bad boys. Again, there is a difference between physicality and cheap shots. This game, today, is more physical. The games back then, you're right, had plenty of cheap shots. It's been refereed out of today's game, and that's a good thing.

How does removing the cheap shots make the NBA more physical? Serious question here, as I don’t watch the NBA too much anymore, but that sounds like an oxymoron...

 

[ThrowBones92]

It's not more. Cheap shot foul was part of the play. They don't do that to guys now. No way. They give the lay up or dunk up 99% of the time.

Back then you paid a price at times going to the basket. Not even close now.

That's my point. Cheap shot fouls have no place in basketball. They shouldn't be allowed and they aren't. You shouldn't have to "pay a price" for going to the basket. If you don't want me driving to the basket, play within the rules to stop me. Don't cheap shot me like a little b!tch. Block my shot or stay in front of me. If you can't, its because I'm better than you. Wearing around the "Lebron would have never gotten away with driving to the basket like he does" likes its a badge of courage is silly.

I think it's strange how some of these fans of the way the game used to be played loved the pro wrestling aspect of it and think its a super important part of being able to judge a player's ability and effectiveness, yet in the same post, they talk about the mid-range jumper becoming a lost art and point to players today not shooting them. It's talking out of both sides of your mouth.

 

[jeans15]

That's my point. Cheap shot fouls have no place in basketball. They shouldn't be allowed and they aren't. You shouldn't have to "pay a price" for going to the basket. If you don't want me driving to the basket, play within the rules to stop me. Don't cheap shot me like a little b!tch. Block my shot or stay in front of me. If you can't, its because I'm better than you. Wearing around the "Lebron would have never gotten away with driving to the basket like he does" likes its a badge of courage is silly.

I think it's strange how some of these fans of the way the game used to be played loved the pro wrestling aspect of it and think its a super important part of being able to judge a player's ability and effectiveness, yet in the same post, they talk about the mid-range jumper becoming a lost art and point to players today not shooting them. It's talking out of both sides of your mouth.

People didn't want to give up 50 to Jordan every night.


I talk about the mid range because it's effective. When GS works the mid range game first. They kill you with the 3s later.

 

[ThrowBones92]

How does removing the cheap shots make the NBA more physical? Serious question here, as I don’t watch the NBA too much anymore, but that sounds like an oxymoron...

My point is that there is a difference between cheap shots and "physical play". They're not the same thing. Cheap shots are flagrant, non-basketball fouls or acts. Physical play is the amount of contact that is allowed without a foul. The best thing they did was remove contact on dribblers and cutters. But there is still tons of physical contact between players, especially on drives to the basket.

The NBA physically taxes the body much more than it did back then. Brute physicality and conditioning back then has no comparison to the game today.

https://twitter.com/i/moments/980936385765912576
Here is a look at all of those hard fouls on drives to the basket...

Edit: don't take the twitter post too seriously. It's meant to be a bit of a laugh.

 

[ThrowBones92]

People didn't want to give up 50 to Jordan every night.


I talk about the mid range because it's effective. When GS works the mid range game first. They kill you with the 3s later.

I agree 100% on its effectiveness. I like it, and I like it when the glass gets used. It's a tool that players today haven't been taught how to use.

 

[timnsun]

My point is that there is a difference between cheap shots and "physical play". They're not the same thing. Cheap shots are flagrant, non-basketball fouls or acts. Physical play is the amount of contact that is allowed without a foul. The best thing they did was remove contact on dribblers and cutters. But there is still tons of physical contact between players, especially on drives to the basket.

The NBA physically taxes the body much more than it did back then. Brute physicality and conditioning back then has no comparison to the game today.

https://twitter.com/i/moments/980936385765912576
Here is a look at all of those hard fouls on drives to the basket...

Edit: don't take the twitter post too seriously. It's meant to be a bit of a laugh.

I get that... I guess my point is that in Jordan’s time you had the physical play along with the cheap shots, making it even more than what we see today. Also, hard fouls were still just fouls. You didn’t have to worry about being called for a flagrant 1 or 2 after the fact. With that in mind, if you wanted to send a message, you fouled hard without fear of suspension.

 

[oldjar07]

People didn't want to give up 50 to Jordan every night.


I talk about the mid range because it's effective. When GS works the mid range game first. They kill you with the 3s later.

They also have the players to do it. KD and Shaun Livingston are two of the best midrange shooters in the game right now.

 

[jeans15]

They also have the players to do it. KD and Shaun Livingston are two of the best midrange shooters in the game right now.

Yes...As good as the Warriors were before KD. He brings versatility to their offense.

 

[cornhustler]

Is LeBron about to be swept in the finals again? He is a runner-up and bronze medal winner. Meanwhile Jordan never took a finals past game six, won 'em all and still has the highest average PPG in the playoffs and that was back when they played D. Jordan is Secretariat and LeBron is Sham.

 

[HuskersNC]

Karl Malone would have caved in LeBron's face with his elbow. Can't compare eras.

 

[Harry Caray]

Losing is acceptable to LeBron, much like Mike Riley. He doesn't have the competitiveness of the all-time greats like Jordan.

And then he shows up to the post-game press conference in a cast? Was he afraid he would hurt it answering questions while sitting at a table?

 

[BK12]

Jordan over Lebron - and it is not close. MJ is better offensively, much better defensively and much better in the clutch.

A better all time comparison for Lebron would be Kevin Durant.
KD 27.1 PPG 7.1 RPG 3.9 APG 49.0% FG 88.2 FT% 38.4 3PT% 1.2 STL 1.1 BLK
LJ 27.2 PPG 7.4 RPG 7.2 APG 50.4% FG 73.9 FT% 34.4 3PT% 1.6 STL 0.8 BLK

Durant has played 11 seasons now and has 2 titles, 2 finals MVP's, and 4 scoring titles
Lebron's first 11 seasons he had 2 titles, 2 finals MVP's and 1 scoring title

 

[litespeedhuskerfan_rivals19671]

I usually watch at least some of the NBA finals, like game 1 for instance, I watched the last 5 minutes, When the Cavs choked it away, I don't think I tuned into 5 minutes combined the rest of the way. It will be interesting to see the TV ratings, I cannot imagine they're going to be very good. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think I'm the only one who wasn't entertained enough to care.

 

[HBK4life_rivals100467]

Losing is acceptable to LeBron, much like Mike Riley. He doesn't have the competitiveness of the all-time greats like Jordan.

And then he shows up to the post-game press conference in a cast? Was he afraid he would hurt it answering questions while sitting at a table?

Apparently he punched a white board after game 1 and injured himself. Lol, Yet another reason MJ is and will always be the greatest.

 

[SoFL Husker]

Shaq was a more dominant force than either Michael or Lebron. I imagine Wilt was something similar before I was born. I think Kareem also has some merit as the best but you won't hear about it because he doesn't have any shoes to sell your kids.

Shaq needed a great 2 or 3 to win Championships. He got swept by Houston with a Magic team that had a pretty good roster but Hakeem who could contain him. A freak of an athlete, physically dominant, but nowhere in the discussion of GOAT.

Same with Wilt, Russell, etc. Jabbar the most gifted scorer and center ever, with a quiet mean streak. Give me Kareem at the 5 as GOAT.

As far as MJ vs Lebron, I think it is now safe to say, MJ had a stronger mental game. Assassin (MJ) vs Excuses (Lebron). I would say the tide probably shifts back in MJs favor.

Also, a poster mentioned Lebron walking Steph down into the paint and throwing the ball out for a shot. MJ would have never done that ****. Either 2 or foul shots. MJ had the better basketball mind, and was mentally tougher than Bron Bron. GBR

 

[Huskerpro]

I don't know the answer, but pose a scenario. MJ and Lebron at their primes with the best cast they had. Now switch them. Who is the better basketball player and why?

 

[HuskerHusaria]

Michael Jordan...

 

[TFrazier_rivals269992]

LeBron finally got his supporting cast. Winking

 

[Suhrreal]

Shaq needed a great 2 or 3 to win Championships. He got swept by Houston with a Magic team that had a pretty good roster but Hakeem who could contain him. A freak of an athlete, physically dominant, but nowhere in the discussion of GOAT.

Same with Wilt, Russell, etc. Jabbar the most gifted scorer and center ever, with a quiet mean streak. Give me Kareem at the 5 as GOAT.

As far as MJ vs Lebron, I think it is now safe to say, MJ had a stronger mental game. Assassin (MJ) vs Excuses (Lebron). I would say the tide probably shifts back in MJs favor.

Also, a poster mentioned Lebron walking Steph down into the paint and throwing the ball out for a shot. MJ would have never done that ****. Either 2 or foul shots. MJ had the better basketball mind, and was mentally tougher than Bron Bron. GBR

Agree about Lebron vs. Michael, but I think a lot of people forget how the refs "contained" Shaq. Many games where he was on the bench in the 1st quarter after 3 quick "fouls" to make the games competitive. Shaq was lazy and let himself go a bit after he got the money, but he was still the most dominant player of the last 30 years. The refs would contain Shaq and give Michael/Kobe all the calls in the world.

 

[jeans15]

I don't know the answer, but pose a scenario. MJ and Lebron at their primes with the best cast they had. Now switch them. Who is the better basketball player and why?

Jordan with that Heat squad would still be Jordan.

The difference is the star players on the Heat would improve where as the Bulls players games would diminish.

Reason number 1234 Jordan is a better player.