Latest APP Article

Mikemarc

Heisman
Nov 28, 2005
69,220
17,902
97
Confirms there's a specific rule that coaches shouldn't contact professors at RU. Per the official RU compliance guidelines:

"Staff members must realize that even the most innocent contact with an academic official may be perceived as pressure to make a concession for a student-athlete simply because the individual is an athlete. Any such perceived pressure compromises the integrity of the (Division of Intercollegiate Athletics) and the university and further hinders the student-athlete’s success at the university and in life.”

Dunleavy is unaware what breaking this policy means as far as punishment, but Flood surely made a mistake.

Hopefully a suspension for the Norfolk game is all it warrants.

http://www.app.com/story/sports/col...d-violation-specific-rutgers-policy/32434235/
 
Last edited:

GeorgeStreet

Sophomore
Jul 27, 2001
1,399
191
0
That is an unrealistic rule probably written by some dipso lawyer. Change the rule to allow incidental contact, social contact, random contact, and contact clearly intended to benefit the student athlete not the coach.
 

RU4Real

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
50,955
30,733
0
Confirms there's a specific rule that coaches aren't allowed to contact professors at RU. Per the official RU compliance guidelines:

"Staff members must realize that even the most innocent contact with an academic official may be perceived as pressure to make a concession for a student-athlete simply because the individual is an athlete. Any such perceived pressure compromises the integrity of the (Division of Intercollegiate Athletics) and the university and further hinders the student-athlete’s success at the university and in life.”

Dunleavy is unaware what breaking this policy means as far as punishment, but Flood surely made a mistake.

Hopefully a suspension for the Norfolk game is all it warrants.

http://www.app.com/story/sports/col...d-violation-specific-rutgers-policy/32434235/

Umm.. Unless there's more specific language, there's nothing in that guideline that prohibits contact between coaches and professors. All it says is that such contact can lead to improper perception.
 
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koleszar

Heisman
Jan 1, 2010
37,340
58,663
113
This rule went into effect in 2002. Hmmm isn't that about the same time we decided to go big time. Now wasn't there this crazy little group called the ru1000. Wonder who got this stupid rule passed. Maybe some disgruntled professor's perhaps. Let's see we break no NCAA rules but are still getting a sh*t storm from this. Good ole Rutgers wouldn't have it any other way.
 

Knight Shift

Heisman
May 19, 2011
88,627
86,625
113
The key question is whether he INITIATED the contact. That appears to be the policy. Flood said in his statement yesterday that he has a lot of interaction with faculty.
 

Mikemarc

Heisman
Nov 28, 2005
69,220
17,902
97
Umm.. Unless there's more specific language, there's nothing in that guideline that prohibits contact between coaches and professors. All it says is that such contact can lead to improper perception.

“If this contact includes discussion of a student-athlete’s performance in a course, performance on a particular assignment (including quizzes, tests and exams) or a student-athlete’s grade in a course,” the policy reads, “such contact must be referred to the team’s academic advisor immediately.”
 

JPhoboken

Senior
Mar 15, 2005
11,963
585
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Confirms there's a specific rule that coaches aren't allowed to contact professors at RU. Per the official RU compliance guidelines:

"Staff members must realize that even the most innocent contact with an academic official may be perceived as pressure to make a concession for a student-athlete simply because the individual is an athlete. Any such perceived pressure compromises the integrity of the (Division of Intercollegiate Athletics) and the university and further hinders the student-athlete’s success at the university and in life.”

Dunleavy is unaware what breaking this policy means as far as punishment, but Flood surely made a mistake.

Hopefully a suspension for the Norfolk game is all it warrants.

http://www.app.com/story/sports/col...d-violation-specific-rutgers-policy/32434235/

1. What if the contact does not involve an athlete/ Are you saying Flood cannot invite a professor to practice via email?

2. Flood stated in his statement that he has contacted faculty on other ocassions to Support a decision they made or to inquire if there is an opportunity to improve a grade. None of these contacts resulted in a report. Why not?
 

RU4Real

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
50,955
30,733
0
“If this contact includes discussion of a student-athlete’s performance in a course, performance on a particular assignment (including quizzes, tests and exams) or a student-athlete’s grade in a course,” the policy reads, “such contact must be referred to the team’s academic advisor immediately.”

Okay, again - not sure what part of "language" some of you guys don't get. There's nothing in this compliance guideline that prohibits contact between coaches and professors.
 

Mikemarc

Heisman
Nov 28, 2005
69,220
17,902
97
1. What if the contact does not involve an athlete/ Are you saying Flood cannot invite a professor to practice via email?

2. Flood stated in his statement that he has contacted faculty on other ocassions to Support a decision they made or to inquire if there is an opportunity to improve a grade. None of these contacts resulted in a report. Why not?

Good questions. Probably what's taking the investigation so long.
 

KJRU

Senior
Jul 25, 2001
3,017
971
113
Flood screwed up by contacting the professor, he then admitted that he does it all the time...you guys can downplay it, ridicule and minimize it but the fact is Flood violated this rule. Hopefully it results in minimal punishment but Flood and everyone else has to understand that his actions are a violation.
 

Ole Cabbagehead

All-American
Apr 21, 2011
8,075
6,323
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Confirms there's a specific rule that coaches aren't allowed to contact professors at RU. Per the official RU compliance guidelines:

"Staff members must realize that even the most innocent contact with an academic official may be perceived as pressure to make a concession for a student-athlete simply because the individual is an athlete. Any such perceived pressure compromises the integrity of the (Division of Intercollegiate Athletics) and the university and further hinders the student-athlete’s success at the university and in life.”

Dunleavy is unaware what breaking this policy means as far as punishment, but Flood surely made a mistake.

Hopefully a suspension for the Norfolk game is all it warrants.

http://www.app.com/story/sports/col...d-violation-specific-rutgers-policy/32434235/

Is there additional language? That quoted language doesn't contain any requirements. It merely identifies potential source of problems. It does not say that staff may not contact faculty.
 

Mikemarc

Heisman
Nov 28, 2005
69,220
17,902
97
Okay, again - not sure what part of "language" some of you guys don't get. There's nothing in this compliance guideline that prohibits contact between coaches and professors.

Good point. Not prohibited...but certainly not encouraged. We'll see where the investigation goes.
 

Raritan83

All-Conference
Sep 6, 2011
1,688
1,468
0
Okay, again - not sure what part of "language" some of you guys don't get. There's nothing in this compliance guideline that prohibits contact between coaches and professors.

no there is not. However, it does state that if he wanted to discuss barnwell's status in the course or what he could do to raise the grade then that must go through the advisor.
 

Mikemarc

Heisman
Nov 28, 2005
69,220
17,902
97
This is what Flood violated....if in fact he initiated the contact. No way around it, I'm afraid.

Coach-initiated contact of any type (e.g., oral, written, etc.) is not permitted between any member of the coaching staff and any Rutgers faculty member or associated instructional staff (teaching assistant, co-adjutant, part-time lecturer, etc.) with respect to any studentathlete. Coaching staff members may however, contact the Academic Support Staff for Student-Athletes Staff in this regard.
 

ClassOf02v.2

Heisman
Sep 30, 2010
13,747
15,174
103
I would think that even if the Barnwell email was not initiated by Flood, he may have incriminated himself with his statement yesterday, where he made it sound like contact with professors is commonplace.
 

Mikemarc

Heisman
Nov 28, 2005
69,220
17,902
97
I would think that even if the Barnwell email was not initiated by Flood, he may have incriminated himself with his statement yesterday, where he made it sound like contact with professors is commonplace.

Yup.
 

RobertG

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
13,096
12,143
113
Coach-initiated contact of any type (e.g., oral, written, etc.) is not permitted between any member of the coaching staff and any Rutgers faculty member or associated instructional staff (teaching assistant, co-adjutant, part-time lecturer, etc.) with respect to any student athlete. Coaching staff members may however, contact the Academic Support Staff for Student-Athletes Staff in this regard.

• Coach-initiated contact of any type is not permitted between any member of the coaching staff and any Rutgers staff member (e.g., assistant dean, assistant registrar, academic department secretary, etc.) as it relates to the academic standing of any student-athlete in a particular course or in general (e.g., grade in a course, dismissal status, etc.).

I think it's pretty simple. If the professor contacted Flood and Flood asked if there was any extra work Barnwell could do, there is no problem. If Flood contracted the professor and asked if there was any extra work Barnwell could there is a problem.
 

Upstream

Heisman
Jul 31, 2001
35,284
10,251
113
Okay, again - not sure what part of "language" some of you guys don't get. There's nothing in this compliance guideline that prohibits contact between coaches and professors.

You're assuming the quoted passage is the whole policy. Reread the second paragraph of the article; it paraphrases the important part of the policy.
 

RU4Real

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
50,955
30,733
0
You're assuming the quoted passage is the whole policy. Reread the second paragraph of the article; it paraphrases the important part of the policy.

The only thing that actually works is the text that wasn't provided in the first few posts, but was linked to a separate document and quoted here, subsequently, which I have acknowledged.
 

Upstream

Heisman
Jul 31, 2001
35,284
10,251
113
So the issue is what is the appropriate punishment. It could be a slap on the wrist and a training session, or something serious.
 

MikeR0102

All-American
Oct 3, 2003
16,444
5,722
113
Only in New Jersey.

You think this **** isn't going on at Baylor? Oh right thats why they were in the Cotton Bowl last year and the Fiesta Bowl the year before and we are lucky to sniff the Pinstripe Bowl.
 

MADHAT1

Heisman
Apr 1, 2003
31,430
16,266
113
Looks like Flood made a mistake and it's only a minor infraction of the rules.
Doubt suspension warranted or will be handed down.
This is the section that Flood violated :
This policy does not apply to contact with an instructor, professor, assistant dean, dean,
admissions liaison, etc. that is general in nature(i.e., contact that is not specific to a particular student-athlete).
I believe because it was about one particular student-athlete (Barnwell), Flood didn't follow the proper procedure set in
that contact policy.
 

RU-Choppin-Ohio

Heisman
Jul 31, 2011
32,984
37,769
113
The key question is whether he INITIATED the contact. That appears to be the policy. Flood said in his statement yesterday that he has a lot of interaction with faculty.

Good point. Maybe he was simply following up on an inquiry sent by Barnwell to get the status on Barnwell's request.
 

Knight Shift

Heisman
May 19, 2011
88,627
86,625
113
Here's the WHOLE POLICY, IN ORDER:
POLICY REGARDING CONTACT BETWEEN ATHLETICS STAFF MEMBERS AND
ACADEMIC STAFF/FACULTY MEMBERS
The Division of Intercollegiate Athletics (DIA) is an integral part of the university and its mission
at large. The DIA’s mission, in part, is to embrace the pursuit of intellectual inquiry, educational
discovery and the academic success of its student-athletes. In this regard, the DIA encourages
involvement of its administrative and coaching staff members in the lives of the university’s
student-athletes. This is vital to the development of the student-athletes as productive
members of society. Such involvement may include taking an interest in a student-athlete’s
academic pursuits at the university. In doing so staff members must respect the individual
rights of the student and the integrity of the system. To assist its staff members, the DIA has
implemented this policy regarding DIA staff members’ involvement in certain aspects of
student-athletes’ academic pursuits.
Within the context of assisting student-athletes with their academic affairs, staff members must
strictly abide by the DIA’s policy. In areas that are not specifically addressed in the policy, staff
members must make prudent judgments regarding their level of involvement in a studentathlete’s
academic life so as to avoid even the appearance of impropriety. Staff members must
realize that even the most innocent contact with an academic official may be perceived as
pressure to make a concession for a student-athlete (simply because the individual is an
athlete). Any such perceived pressure compromises the integrity of the DIA and the university
and further hinders the student-athlete’s success at the university and in life.
In keeping with the DIA’s general policy regarding involvement of the DIA’s staff members in
the academic pursuits of student-athletes, the following specific actions and similar actions are
strictly prohibited:
• Coach-initiated contact of any type (e.g., oral, written, etc.) is not permitted between any
member of the coaching staff and any Rutgers faculty member or associated instructional
staff (teaching assistant, co-adjutant, part-time lecturer, etc.) with respect to any studentathlete.
Coaching staff members may however, contact the Academic Support Staff for
Student-Athletes Staff in this regard.
• Coach-initiated contact of any type is not permitted between any member of the coaching
staff and any Rutgers staff member (e.g., assistant dean, assistant registrar, academic
department secretary, etc.) as it relates to the academic standing of any student-athlete in
a particular course or in general (e.g., grade in a course, dismissal status, etc.).
In addition:
• Only student-athletes shall turn in their assignments (e.g., term papers, take-home exams,
homework, etc.) to their professors or instructors. Under no circumstances shall any staff
member (including student managers, graduate assistants, volunteer coaches, etc.) hand
in an assignment on behalf of a student-athlete.
• All contact with faculty members or instructional staff, if necessary, should be handled by
the Academic Support staff. Please note that contact (telephone, e-mail, etc.) initiated by
a professor, instructor, assistant dean, etc. to a coaching staff member or administrator is
Adopted 6/02
permitted. If this contact includes discussion of a student-athlete’s performance in a
course, performance on a particular assignment (including quizzes, tests and exams) or a
student-athlete’s grade in a course, such contact must be referred to the team’s academic
advisor immediately.
• All contact with the admissions staff regarding specific student-athletes and their
admission status is strictly prohibited under this policy. Any contact with admissions about
a specific student-athlete must be made by the Academic Support staff.
• This policy does not apply to contact with an instructor, professor, assistant dean, dean,
admissions liaison, etc. that is general in nature (i.e., contact that is not specific to a
particular student-athlete).
 

mikershoein

All-American
Dec 4, 2006
9,888
8,028
58
This is such a stupid and unclear policy- either they can talk or not. If not, the. They got to stop honoring these *** clowns at the half.

It was done by email so it can be provided and determined if he was asking for a better grade (which it sounds like he wasn't based on KF quotes ).
 

RU4Real

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
50,955
30,733
0
So the issue is what is the appropriate punishment. It could be a slap on the wrist and a training session, or something serious.

I think before we get to that point we would have to address the issue of awareness of the policy. I see the linked document (which is obviously only one page of a larger document) but what is its context? Is it part of a larger document that all athletic personnel are "supposed to read"? Is it something that comes with a signature page and which requires explicit acknowledgement? Does the university require recurrent training?

In other words, if there is any possibility that this policy can exist but that Flood and others could not be specifically aware of its existence, then it's ultimately a University issue and not a Flood issue.

I would commend your attention to the APP article, where the professors' union has called for "clarification" of the policy. If the union feels that the policy is unclear, then its entirely possible that the athletic department isn't real clear on it, either.
 

Mikemarc

Heisman
Nov 28, 2005
69,220
17,902
97
Looks like Flood made a mistake and it's only a minor infraction of the rules.
Doubt suspension warranted or will be handed down.
This is the section that Flood violated :
This policy does not apply to contact with an instructor, professor, assistant dean, dean,
admissions liaison, etc. that is general in nature(i.e., contact that is not specific to a particular student-athlete).
I believe because it was about one particular student-athlete (Barnwell), Flood didn't follow the proper procedure set in
that contact policy.


Though he said on Tuesday, "Only interactions I have with professors are about players grades.." or something to that effect. If this accidentally proves he's broken this policy more than once, it couldn be a little more than minor.
 

ClassOf02v.2

Heisman
Sep 30, 2010
13,747
15,174
103
Good point. Maybe he was simply following up on an inquiry sent by Barnwell to get the status on Barnwell's request.

I would think Barnwell would have to do that. According to what's posted here, the only other acceptable contact would have to come from academic support, not Flood.
 

Mikemarc

Heisman
Nov 28, 2005
69,220
17,902
97
This is such a stupid and unclear policy- either they can talk or not. If not, the. They got to stop honoring these *** clowns at the half.

It was done by email so it can be provided and determined if he was asking for a better grade (which it sounds like he wasn't based on KF quotes ).

What unclear about it? You aren't allowed to contact a teacher about a players grade if you are a coach. You can contact teachers regarding anything else, as long as its not about a specific player.

Even if he wasn't asking for a better grade (which I'm pretty confident he wasn't, based on his reputation), he still inquired about his grade. Which is a violation of the policy.
 
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Knight Shift

Heisman
May 19, 2011
88,627
86,625
113
Nope. Nothing wrong with commonplace communication with professors. Read the whole policy.

"This policy does not apply to contact with an instructor, professor, assistant dean, dean,
admissions liaison, etc. that is general in nature (i.e., contact that is not specific to a
particular student-athlete)."
 

ClassOf02v.2

Heisman
Sep 30, 2010
13,747
15,174
103
Nope. Nothing wrong with commonplace communication with professors. Read the whole policy.

"This policy does not apply to contact with an instructor, professor, assistant dean, dean,
admissions liaison, etc. that is general in nature (i.e., contact that is not specific to a
particular student-athlete)."

Right, but Flood's statement yesterday indicated that it was commonplace to a) support a professors decision or b) inquire as to whether there is anything an individual student athlete can do to improve his grade (paraphrasing). Part b) seems problematic.

I believe that Flood is a man of high integrity and there was no malicious intent in his communications, but there are questions to be answered now. I do not believe this warrants any severe discipline, nor is my belief that RU's reputation for high academic integrity among student athletes should be called into question.
 

Mikemarc

Heisman
Nov 28, 2005
69,220
17,902
97
Nope. Nothing wrong with commonplace communication with professors. Read the whole policy.

"This policy does not apply to contact with an instructor, professor, assistant dean, dean,
admissions liaison, etc. that is general in nature (i.e., contact that is not specific to a
particular student-athlete)."
[
But he said the only interactions he would have with professors is if a student athlete would have an opportunity to improve a grade. You are not allowed to discuss grades of a student athlete with professors.
 

MADHAT1

Heisman
Apr 1, 2003
31,430
16,266
113
Though he said on Tuesday, "Only interactions I have with professors are about players grades.." or something to that effect. If this accidentally proves he's broken this policy more than once, it couldn be a little more than minor.

Unless those he had interaction with contacted him after support staff asked a question on his behalf.
I won't automatically call in major crimes on this matter, because Flood could have meant his interaction with professors was not the way you're implying it was.
It could have been Flood followed procedures when grades were involved and the professors felt comfortable enough to contact
him directly instead of going through the same channels Flood did.

Let's let the investigation run it's course before we start playing hangman
 

Mikemarc

Heisman
Nov 28, 2005
69,220
17,902
97
Unless those he had interaction with contacted him after support staff asked a question on his behalf.
I won't automatically call in major crimes on this matter, because Flood could have meant his interaction with professors was not the way you're implying it was.
It could have been Flood followed procedures when grades were involved and the professors felt comfortable enough to contact
him directly instead of going through the same channels Flood did.

Let's let the investigation run it's course before we start playing hangman

Fair enough. I'm not meaning to imply anything. Just doesn't look good in my opinion for Flood. Think he made a mistake, and his punishment will be minor.

Which is why I think the longer the investigation runs, the worse it looks. Just my opinion.
 

KJRU

Senior
Jul 25, 2001
3,017
971
113
[
But he said the only interactions he would have with professors is if a student athlete would have an opportunity to improve a grade. You are not allowed to discuss grades of a student athlete with professors.
Flood's press conference yesterday hurt him more than helped him. Yesterday should've been a day of 'no comment due to an on going investigation'.

Having professors visit practice, teaching classes, having a cordial relationship with professors and all the other things Flood mentioned are irrelevant...none of those things excuse a coach for contacting a professor about one of his players grades.
 
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