Lance Armstrong

[jethreauxdawg]

I caught the end of a 30 for 30 about someone else, and he was mentioned. What do y’all think of Lance? I personally don’t have a problem with him. So he was cheating at a time when everyone was cheating too. So what? If everyone else was cheating, I don’t think he had an unfair advantage. And the dude single handedly saved the Average Joes.

 

[Felonious Junk]

He ruined the lives of countless people in his inner circle in order to further his lies. He’s a total POS

 

[jethreauxdawg]

How so? I figured everyone in his inner circle made a ton of money.

 

[Bcash2]

Can’t recall all details, but I’m pretty sure he used his enormous influence to threaten multiple teammate and their families If they dared expose him. Also ruined on of his teammates businesses/sponsorships I think. Watch the doc on Netflix about him.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Ok. I’ve got no clue about any of that. I was more referring to his cycling accomplishments. I view them like the steroid baseball era. Yes, you can’t compare the numbers individual numbers to past eras (not sure if they do that in cycling anyway) but the best players likely would’ve still been the best if no one was on roids.

 

[Felonious Junk]

There are a million articles you could find with a simple google search

https://www.outsideonline.com/1904256/my-life-lance-armstrong

https://www.espn.com/sports/enduran...ance-armstrong-made-life-very-very-unpleasant

 

[jethreauxdawg]

So how do you feel about his cycling accomplishments

There are a million articles you could find with a simple google search

Without reading your linked articles, I’ll concede he’s a POS. Don’t know him, will never meet him. Lots of athletes are POS’s.

 

[Dawgzilla]

I caught the end of a 30 for 30 about someone else, and he was mentioned. What do y’all think of Lance? I personally don’t have a problem with him. So he was cheating at a time when everyone was cheating too. So what? If everyone else was cheating, I don’t think he had an unfair advantage. And the dude single handedly saved the Average Joes.

Douchebag of epic proportions. He didn't just cheat, he spent millions developing a drug program that was ahead of the testing curve, and bribing WADA officials to look the other way, all while profiting off a fairytale story. He vehemently denied doping while accusing others of it. He sued print media for defamation, then had to return the money when the truth came out. And he ruined the careers of anyone who crossed him.

And once he was done with road cycling, he screwed up some mountain biking events just for good measure.

 

[Bcash2]

Yea he def wasn’t alone. But I do think that the elaborate ways that his team was cheating was unrivaled at the time. For example having a secret hotel rooms setup enroute to a race to blood dope, then another one afterwards to swap back over to clean blood afterwards.
No doubt that other teams would have done the same given the opportunity/resources. I personally don’t care about “cheating” in a sport If everyone is doing it.

 

[Jeffreauxdawg]

View attachment 16267

 

[Bcash2]

Slight thread hikack: I’d recommend watching Slaying The Badger. It’s about Greg Lemond and his mentor turned bitter rival. Really good stuff. It discusses what Lemond saw as a rapid change to doping in cycling where all of a sudden everyone seemed to be putting up times that would’ve crushed the competition a few years prior.

 

[boatsandhoes]

The 30 for 30 changed my mind a bit. They were all cheating and he was better than everyone else. he may have been a vindictive ****ole, but it’s real hard to name anyone great that isn’t the same (tiger) some others come to mind who really weren’t nice people behind the cameras. If you’re as determined as he was on a bike, hard to turn that off when you’re off the bike. Those type athletes don’t know how to quit.

That doesn’t make what he did right, but if he was nice guy you probably wouldn’t know his name.

 

[DAWG61]

Tiger Woods and Lance Armstrong should never be mentioned in the same breath. Tiger got addicted to Taco Bell grade ground beef when he had filet mignon at the house. That doesn't make him a bad person it makes him weak for succumbing to constant endless temptation. Lance Armstrong emphatically denied steroid use for a decade straight and made himself the poster boy for his own cancer foundation Livestrong all while he was going to incredible lengths to take a shitload of steroids which cause 17ing cancer.

 

[Jeffreauxdawg]

Tiger Woods and Lance Armstrong should never be mentioned in the same breath. Tiger got addicted to Taco Bell grade ground beef when he had filet mignon at the house. That doesn't make him a bad person...

It actually makes him a bad person.... But unlike Lance, Tiger did not cheat his sport.

And for what it's worth, I believe Tiger is a fan of Roast Beef. So Arby's would have been the more appropriate analogy.

 

[Not Really a Doc]

I'm neutral towards him. He was def an archetypal driven athlete. I don't judge him for the steroids, just how he acted towards people.

 

[boatsandhoes]

I’m flabbergasted, we disagree on yet another subject. your logic never makes any sense in any direction.

Two points:
If you read any books on Tiger he was linked to hgh and steroids (Balco labs-Galea)
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/...d-doping-drugs-hgh-actovegin-article-1.432799


which would explain his fast bulk up, and the premature deterioration of his body, his knee, his back, and his whatever else he quit tournaments for.
I guarantee tiger threatened everyone around him right before things fell apart with all the hoes.

The only difference in them is tiger has turned it around, and is in a much more positive frame than he’s ever been. He’s way more likeable now.

 

[patdog]

I don't judge him for the steroids, just how he acted towards people.

THIS.

 

[Dawgzilla]

I'm neutral towards him. He was def an archetypal driven athlete. I don't judge him for the steroids, just how he acted towards people.

I blame him for the blood doping, because it is extremely dangerous, and he forced everyone on his team to participate. The blood doping they do in cycling is way more dangerous than just taking injections like baseball players.

Hecwas my hero during his first couple of tdf wins, but when i realized what he was doing it ruined the sport for me.

 

[PineGroveBully]

Wonder how much the postal service was paying him while they were going broke?

 

[DAWG61]

your logic never makes any sense in any direction.

Maybe I should play more poker** to be fair here you didn't know Tiger Woods is my favorite golfer to watch ever so I stand up for him a little more than I would for Lance Armstrong. I don't associate steroids with Tiger at all. It didn't even cross my mind till your last post.

 

[Rogershep]

I lived in Austin while this was all going on. We’d go down to 6th street to drink as He was finishing. I couldn’t count the yellow jerseys people were wearing on their bikes. I moved to St Croix and he came to complete in the 1/2 Ironman. I’ll admit I was star struck when I saw him, everybody was. He was ordering “fat wine” from the Italian restaurant I repped. I was at the finish line when he crossed. We were all so enamored. He was there under the cloud of cheating. He cheated. He threw anybody under the bus that would confirm it. I was the biggest Armstrong supporter, but at the end of the day he was a FRAUD! It was literally the last time I put any celebrity on a pedestal.

 

[FQDawg]

I really can’t stand the “it’s ok to cheat if everyone else is cheating” mentality.

I also can’t stand the “he was an ******* but only because he was so driven so it’s ok” mentality.

It’s funny to me that a lot of the people who are ok with those points of view are the same kind of people who wonder how the world "has gotten like it has."

It’s not ok to cheat. It’s not ok to be an *******.

 

[KentuckyDawg13]

mtbiking

Said mtbike races were non-sanctioned as he has a lifetime ban for ALL sanctioned events. Winning a grassroots bike races is nothing to brag about. For instance, I won the Bluegrass MTB Cup in 2018...big whoop. Nobody cares.

 

[KentuckyDawg13]

Yep, he tried to ruin Greg LeMond, the greatest American cyclist EVER, because Greg called out his unbelievable performances, like beating Pantani up Alpe Duez. Greg's bike company was acquired by Trek which was one of Lance's sponsors.

 

[KentuckyDawg13]

Tour teams have been doing this since the 80s.

 

[KentuckyDawg13]

Miguel Indurain is probably the first racer to go from a nobody to Tour de France champ (5 times!) due to EPO. He could barely finish the Tour then came out of nowhere to dethrone reigning champ Greg LeMond (in 1991). And Indurain STILL has his Tour titles, along with Barne Riis and Jan Ullirch who also won the Tour with doping. The reason Lance had his titles stripped because he is a piece of ****. He tried (and successfully in some cases) to ruin many people because they interfered with his objective.

 

[KentuckyDawg13]

You do realize the blood doping has been in existence for decades prior to Lance Armstrong, right?

 

[jethreauxdawg]

I really can’t stand the “it’s ok to cheat if everyone else is cheating” mentality.

I get this. I just feel that certain sports, cycling and baseball at the time, didn’t really care about doping. If the sanctioning body doesn’t really care (if everyone in the sport is doing it, they don’t care), then it’s not cheating. It’s playing by the allowed rules.

 

[boatsandhoes]

Welp, that’s ok. I’m want to be cordial. It’s fine that you like him, and I get it. I have a lot of golf buddies who love him. I don’t really.

My opinion is that he took hgh, or steroids at a time. his body broke down, he came back, and now he is clean and more likable than ever.

He’s a wonderful player, and supremely talented.

 

[T-TownDawgg]

Just because he's your favorite golfer means he's a good guy and doesn't dope.
Since LeBron is your favorite player he da best.
Beginning to see (but still not understand) your logic

 

[Drebin]

Tiger Woods and Lance Armstrong should never be mentioned in the same breath. Tiger got addicted to Taco Bell grade ground beef when he had filet mignon at the house. That doesn't make him a bad person it makes him weak for succumbing to constant endless temptation. Lance Armstrong emphatically denied steroid use for a decade straight and made himself the poster boy for his own cancer foundation Livestrong all while he was going to incredible lengths to take a shitload of steroids which cause 17ing cancer.

Leave it to you to have another bad take in a thread.

Tiger Woods was a world class *******. I've seen it up close. Cursing at camera men, yelling at kids asking for autographs, and the works. That he had a couple dozen side pieces is another symptom of his assholishness. He was Tiger Woods, dammit, and he could do whatever he wanted. His problem was that he couldn't control the narrative once the stories about him started breaking. Armstrong, in comparison, was able to control the message through bribes and intimidation because he had administrators in his pocket. Different outcomes doesn't mean they were on different levels. They are both narcissistic ********.

It kinda seems that Tiger's injuries and his very public struggles with the fallout of his assholish behavior has humbled him. I hope that is the case.

 

[johnson86-1]

I get this. I just feel that certain sports, cycling and baseball at the time, didn’t really care about doping. If the sanctioning body doesn’t really care (if everyone in the sport is doing it, they don’t care), then it’s not cheating. It’s playing by the allowed rules.

Whether it's playing by the allowed rules or not, I'm not going to judge somebody too harshly that spends their life trying to be world class and has to decide they are going to give up their dream rather than take the same drugs that everybody else they are competing against is taking.

 

[mstateglfr]

I caught the end of a 30 for 30 about someone else, and he was mentioned. What do y’all think of Lance? I personally don’t have a problem with him. So he was cheating at a time when everyone was cheating too. So what? If everyone else was cheating, I don’t think he had an unfair advantage. And the dude single handedly saved the Average Joes.

Lance Armstrong is a raging ******* who antagonizes, lies, and justifies proven bad behavior.

Based on who and where we are as a country, I am not at all surprised there are people who see his behavior and think 'yeah, im gonna defend that guy in discussions'.

Lance's scorched earth approach to defending his lies ruined untold numbers of careers.
The excuse of 'well everyone was doing it' is total ******** and simply shows the low level of ethics of the person making the excuse.
Had he not cheated, perhaps others who were clean would have won. Or perhaps others who were pushed out of the sport(dropped from teams) due to the inability to compete well enough, could have stayed on and continued their careers.


But ultimately the biggest reason that Lance is a raging POS is due to his smear campaign towards LeMond and the resulting fallout for LeMond and his bicycle brand.
LeMond was probably too vocal at the time, but he was also ultimately right.
Trek went all in on Armstrong and that is in part why i still dismiss Trek as a bike option for family or friends. 17em for killing the LeMond brand(and the Fisher and Klein brands too).


I've met Lance once and ridden along with him twice. The cult that follows him on RAGBRAI is something to experience- its fascinating to see so many people wprship a guy who was famous for being an *******, lying, and cheating.
17 Lance.

 

[The Peeper]

"Tiger got addicted to Taco Bell grade ground beef when he had filet mignon at the house. That doesn't make him a bad person"

Elin Nordegren and her kids disagrees with you...………...
​

 

[Dawgzilla]

Said mtbike races were non-sanctioned as he has a lifetime ban for ALL sanctioned events. Winning a grassroots bike races is nothing to brag about. For instance, I won the Bluegrass MTB Cup in 2018...big whoop. Nobody cares.[/QUOTE/]

Nobody cares if you win a sanctioned series, either. If you want an invitation to nationals you have to face sanctioned events, but otherwise only the racers really care. And the sponsers of pros, I guess.

Races that aren't sanctioned, by USA Cycling can still be big races. Back then, the entire ultra-endurance race series was non-sanctioned, because the promoters did not want to pay the fees. I entered a few races where Floyd Landis was entered

My biggest gripe was the Leadville 100 in 2009, which was before his WADA ban, I believe. That was my first entry into the race.... But I was just trying to finish in under 12 hours. That's the biggest endurance race in mountain biking, and I don't think it was sanctioned since Floyd Landis raced in it once or twice.

Lance had finished second in 2008, so in 2009 he assembled a professional team to launch an assault on the course record. What he did wasn't cheating (other than the fact He was still doping), but it was contrary to the spirit of mountain biking. It isn't a team sport.

2 or 3 members of his team were hired as rabbits; they went out at a hectic pace to separate the pack... Then they didn't even finish the race. Poor Dave Wiens, who had won the race 6 straight times and set all the course records, couldn't hang on, and finished second while Lance broke his course record. To be fair, Lance rode the last 8 miles on a flat tire - which is pretty impressive -but that was because he didn't know how to reinflate it. I really can't even understand a mountain biker who can't change a tire.

 

[DAWG61]

LeBron isn't my favorite player. Not even close. He actually annoys the hell outta me with his over saturation of himself through commercials, interviews, movies, shoes, apparel etc... I don't really have a favorite NBA player. I much prefer college basketball over the NBA.

 

[Forrest4Moore]

Lance had finished second in 2008, so in 2009 he assembled a professional team to launch an assault on the course record. What he did wasn't cheating (other than the fact He was still doping), but it was contrary to the spirit of mountain biking. It isn't a team sport.

2 or 3 members of his team were hired as rabbits; they went out at a hectic pace to separate the pack... Then they didn't even finish the race. Poor Dave Wiens, who had won the race 6 straight times and set all the course records, couldn't hang on, and finished second while Lance broke his course record. To be fair, Lance rode the last 8 miles on a flat tire - which is pretty impressive -but that was because he didn't know how to reinflate it. I really can't even understand a mountain biker who can't change a tire.

I’m curious. And I know this is a dumb question. But why does Dave have to keep up with the blistering pace set by Lance’s team? Could he not just run his own race at his best pace and potentially win it at the end? I guess my real question is, if Lance can keep up the pace with the pacers, why couldn’t the other guy...

In general, I guess I just need explanation on how team racing helps outside of providing blocks. If one guy can keep up with that pace, then it seems he’s the better racer and should win.

 

[Dawgzilla]

I’m curious. And I know this is a dumb question. But why does Dave have to keep up with the blistering pace set by Lance’s team? Could he not just run his own race at his best pace and potentially win it at the end? I guess my real question is, if Lance can keep up the pace with the pacers, why couldn’t the other guy...

In general, I guess I just need explanation on how team racing helps outside of providing blocks. If one guy can keep up with that pace, then it seems he’s the better racer and should win.

The Leadville 100 is not a very technical trail, so drafting is actually possible. The challenge of the course is the high elevation (over 12,000 feet at the high point) and the long climbs. Wiens didn't know what Lance was up to, so he missed out on the draft.

It was really bad sportsmanship on Lance's part, and it's not what we want the sport to be.

 

[GloryDawg]

He was full of ****.

 

[Go Budaw]

Leave it to you to have another bad take in a thread.

Tiger Woods was a world class *******. I've seen it up close. Cursing at camera men, yelling at kids asking for autographs, and the works. That he had a couple dozen side pieces is another symptom of his assholishness. He was Tiger Woods, dammit, and he could do whatever he wanted. His problem was that he couldn't control the narrative once the stories about him started breaking. Armstrong, in comparison, was able to control the message through bribes and intimidation because he had administrators in his pocket. Different outcomes doesn't mean they were on different levels. They are both narcissistic ********.

It kinda seems that Tiger's injuries and his very public struggles with the fallout of his assholish behavior has humbled him. I hope that is the case.

They are both ********, but only one of them is a confirmed cheater / liar in regards to their respective sports. That does put them in vastly different categories.