Kyle Tucker- "Increasingly Likely that Oscar Returns"

[*Fox2Monk*]

Just hedge the ball screens and don't allow your center to extend beyond the 3 point line.

Cal likes sticking a center on a PG 45 feet from the basket sometimes. The K State game was a good example.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

Yeah, there's no way Ugo is better offensively than Oscar, no way no how. Ugo showed he has no moves and his footwork just isn’t there. One on one, Oscar can dominate most centers, but Oscar is rarely left with just a single defender. Nobody is doubling Ugo.

And defensively, Ugo isn’t in the same stratosphere as Oscar. We only saw Ugo for a few plays here and there. He got scored on more than Kristy Canyon and he hasn't learned how to stay out of foul trouble either.

You can't just try to swat every ball, you do that, you'll have 2 fouls in the first minute of every game.

People forget that too, Ugo got scored on just like Oscar if not more in the small sample size. He definitely needs more time but if he had Oscars minutes it would be a lot more evident his flaws. He can be really good but it’s not like he’s a pure stopper right now.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

That latter 3 things you said seem to resonate the most with me. It's a time bomb waiting to go off. Oscar wouldn't get near the $ he did last year. which sure wouldn't have things off to a great start either. I'd also add this conflicting info (Program/Oscar say he's prepping for the Draft but Kyle Tucker wanted to be projecting something "breaking news" worthy because he didn't get to talk with parents/players who knew some things going on and then slowly walked it back today by saying he never said "I guarantee he'll return") isn't helping the Portal recruiting one bit. If Oscar returns, others aren't coming. So while it pains many of you to hear this-you better recruit like he's not coming back and same with everyone else "testing the waters". Otherwise, you are stuck with a short roster and it's just bad management, something we've seen far too much from the program recently.

I don’t agree with the it has not come close to working with Oscar. When healthy his first year we were by far the best team for 2 months. Had we stayed that way we could have done some damage IMO. I think with the right help he could easily lead to a title.

 

[jmp94]

I don’t agree with the it has not come close to working with Oscar. When healthy his first year we were by far the best team for 2 months. Had we stayed that way we could have done some damage IMO. I think with the right help he could easily lead to a title.

We were good in 21-22 because TyTy Washington was playing like a top 10 pick. When he got hurt, the season was over. UK had to feed Oscar the ball too much, and they lost due to it. If you look at the KU/UNC/UT games that year, Oscar just had “ok” stats for his standards. UK had balanced scoring and won those three games by 20 each…

UK was bad this year mainly due to our backcourt. It was the worst backcourt I’ve seen from Cal at UK that made the NCAA tourney. UK had to force feed Oscar the ball and it took you nowhere.

I do believe Oscar could be effective on next years team. He will have the most talent around him that he has had at UK…. Will Oscar be ok not getting the ball enough? Will he lose the weight he gained in the off-season? Those are answers we won’t know and I prefer to move on.

There is nobody that can convince me that Oscar coming back is good for our defense. He’s an awful defender.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

Cal needs to tell Tshiebwe what he told Reid Travis when he came here, (I paraphrase) “I don’t expect you to still score 20 a game, you won’t need to on this team, but you can keep your rebound average the same.”

In other words, on the 23-24 team, Tshiebwe needs to focus on one thing, cleaning the boards. Get your 10-12 points off putbacks and at the foul line.

If Tshiebwe comes back and does that, we can have a very good squad.

If he comes back and has to get lots of paint touches or tries to shoot 3’s all the time, we are in trouble.

The thing is Oscar can get 16 a game without demanding the ball. That’s why we can be so good. He will get 8 a game off just rebounds, a couple FT’s from fouls, a jumper or 2. I mean with a balanced team he only needs 9-10 touches a game at most. Cal should be able to scheme that pretty easily.

 

[Aike]

I don’t agree with the it has not come close to working with Oscar. When healthy his first year we were by far the best team for 2 months. Had we stayed that way we could have done some damage IMO. I think with the right help he could easily lead to a title.

Lot of people thought Purdue was by far the best team early this season. Sometimes teams get figured out as the season goes on, and if they lack a counterpunch it’s curtains early in March.

 

[The_Answer1313_rivals]

People forget that too, Ugo got scored on just like Oscar if not more in the small sample size. He definitely needs more time but if he had Oscars minutes it would be a lot more evident his flaws. He can be really good but it’s not like he’s a pure stopper right now.

Yeah I was going to mention that as well. It wasn't as if he was some great defensive player either when he did play.

As much as I wanted to see more of him during the season, in the time that he was on the court he just wasn't quite ready yet to contribute in any big way.

And probably the reason when Oscar needed rest, they went to Ware, not Ugonna.

 

[RalphDaltonFan]

I don’t agree with the it has not come close to working with Oscar. When healthy his first year we were by far the best team for 2 months. Had we stayed that way we could have done some damage IMO. I think with the right help he could easily lead to a title.

I refuse to believe any team that started Sahvir Wheeler was going to win anything until proven differently. I mean his Portal experience right now is kind of backing that up. If he was what was needed and missing piece, everyone would be lined up. If he was a bench guy? I'm supporting that, but kind of what I referred to in the other thread-this program has to get guys who play to the role and understand they aren't elite, they are role players. Wheeler had ego of the elite UK guards under Cal and the game of a good player, not elite. Good players at Kentucky are needed. Not disputing that at all, but if you refuse to accept the role, then you won't win.

TyTy's injury did '22 season in. Cal should've never allowed him to play in Tennessee game after dodging the bullet in the Florida game.

That being said, for the UNC/Kansas wins, the team was fading....and sucked in Postseason play. They had too many starters who disappeared in tough games/moments of games (Wheeler, Brooks, Grady in games away from Rupp).

 

[JonathanW_rivals]

People forget that too, Ugo got scored on just like Oscar if not more in the small sample size. He definitely needs more time but if he had Oscars minutes it would be a lot more evident his flaws. He can be really good but it’s not like he’s a pure stopper right now.

But he would likely have also improved more by playing. And from FR year to Soph year is when you often see the biggest improvement

 

[The_Answer1313_rivals]

But he would likely have also improved more by playing. And from FR year to Soph year is when you often see the biggest improvement

I wonder if that's less true with people that don't play much their FR year tho. Ugonna logged in a little bit more than just two full games last season.

Collins certainly didn't make much of a jump last season.
Some people you hear stories in the offseason or when practice starts about how great they look. Then the season comes and they are the same player they always were.

Poythress IMO too. Solid player but was here for 4 years and never really fully took off.

You had PJ Washington who I'd say took about a year and a half to really click.

On average year 1 to year 2 is most improvement but I feel like there is a wide range of time tables depending on the player.

 

[kyjeff1]

How many 20/20 has Ugo had? Until he has one he should not be compared in any way with Oscar.

Which is what I was getting at.

 

[kyjeff1]

My posts are as dumb as it gets

Thanks for the heads up buddy.

 

[kyjeff1]

You're talking to lead belly. Block and move on. Loden buik is your clue.

I'm not sure that's LB, but it did cross my mind. This guy makes too many grammar mistakes, he doesn't use laughing emoji's and he wouod never have takes this bad.

 

[School boy]

I don't think Matt Jones has had good information on Kentucky basketball since 2018. He's been looking like a fool saying he's hearing this or that. But he's been wrong 90% of the time.

 

[kyjeff1]

I don’t agree with the it has not come close to working with Oscar. When healthy his first year we were by far the best team for 2 months. Had we stayed that way we could have done some damage IMO. I think with the right help he could easily lead to a title.

Yeah, I don't get how Oscar is the problem.

Now, disagreeing with Aike and RalphDaltonfan is not something I would normally do, but I have to this time.

Our problems began and ended with our guards and 4's. When Tyty was healthy, we were really good, but when he got hurt, we were done.

In 22/23, Wheeler played lead guard for far too long, then Wallace took over, but our backcourt couldn't guard anybody up top. If Oscar tried to protect the rim, all he would do is pick up fouls.

I'm not sure how a center can fix the issues that are happening at the guard positions.

I haven't seen the +/- stats, but were their any games Oscar had a net negative score? I could understand if Oscar had games where he only got 8 and 8, but that doesn't happen.

 

[BBBLazing]

So, he is going to go and make money while the rest of the team is competing and working their butts off? That should go over well.

From what I've heard that pissed a bunch off in the Bahamas, because he was out making money while they were practicing.

 

[kyjeff1]

Lot of people thought Purdue was by far the best team early this season. Sometimes teams get figured out as the season goes on, and if they lack a counterpunch it’s curtains early in March.

I never understood the Purdue love. They had 1 guy and a bunch of YMCA Joe's. I would have bet the house that they would have never seen the E8.

 

[BBBLazing]

A very reduced role are you serious? One of the best rebounder college basketball has ever seen and you want him to have a reduced role? He doesn't need a reduced role other than the offense not being ran through him but still getting him touches and letting him get his points off offensive rebounds and dishes off of gaurd penetration. Let him get iso touches every now and then and the free throw line jumpers as well but he just needs a shot blocker out there with him and we would be ready to go then. Some of you can't be Kentucky fans trying to push this narrative that Oscar needs a very reduced role. Get outta here with that nonsense. Things don't have to be all or nothing.

How many teams have a five that can't play defense that is protected by a shot blocker at the 4?

 

[kyjeff1]

But he would likely have also improved more by playing. And from FR year to Soph year is when you often see the biggest improvement

At the expense of more losses. We were on the bubble for a while, I don't know if there was ever a time where Cal could put Ugo out there for on-the-job training.

 

[kyjeff1]

From what I've heard that pissed a bunch off in the Bahamas, because he was out making money while they were practicing.

Okay, where did you hear this load of crap?

Toppin made a commercial too, was the rest of the team pissed when he wasn't at practice while shooting with Lilly milk jugs?

 

[Tampa_cat54_rivals112262]

N/A- not getting involved in rumors if I can help it.

 

[BBBLazing]

Dude just say you've never coached before and move on.

Here is a video of 8 year olds being taught how to defend a ball screen and fight over the screen without having to hedge or switch (which you said were the only 2 options). It was the first result on google. If they can wrap their minds around it, I'm sure you can as well.




And you ignored the entire rest of my post about what you were also wrong about.

Let's just leave it at that.

Those are some big *** 8 year olds.

 

[Tampa_cat54_rivals112262]

Those are some big *** 8 year olds.

Lol you get that point. Anyone who says that fighting through ball screens doesn't exist just doesn't know what they're talking about. But yeah, def not 8 years old haha probably high school.

 

[RalphDaltonFan]

Okay, where did you hear this load of crap?

Toppin made a commercial too, was the rest of the team pissed when he wasn't at practice while shooting with Lilly milk jugs?

Nobody was upset with Oscar getting his $ in Bahamas. They knew he was earning a big payday and deserved it with his situation where he could make it out of the country. Never was told that at all. A few guys weren't happy with how Oscar approached the season in the Fall when everyone was on Campus, but it wasn't anything like it's been with a few guys throughout the Cal era.

I've heard more stories about guys not happy with Wheeler then Oscar. That never changed at any point during the season either.

 

[BBBLazing]

No kidding. One of these guys is an obvious UofL troll, but some of the others are legit UK fans.

So what, he isn’t good at guarding pnr, but he is still a ++++ player anytime he steps on the floor.

John Wall couldn't shoot 3's, would we turn him away if he wanted to come back? Hell no.

Tyler Ulis (with one 'L') couldn't block shots or rebound, would we not want him back in 16/17 if he wanted to come back? Uhhhh yes, yes we would. He couldn’t guard Sam Decker in 2015, but we all wanted him back in 2015/16.

Honestly, I think Oscar is so driven to get rebounds, that it affects how he defends. He thinks every shot is a miss and on top of that, refs call fouls on him for breathing, so he doesn't challenge shots like he should. That might be Cal telling him to do that too.

But wow, how any UK fan would not want Oscar back, is beyond my comprehension. We saw what he could do with a legit point guard in 21/22 when Tyty was healthy. Yeah, I want to see that again.

While I've read that some don't want Oscar back, I think they generally mean they don't want him back if he has to be the focal point of the team. I was one of the first here that said him being our focal point will keep us from being a contender. But, of course I would love to have him on the team, doing what he does best, which is rebound. But, again, if we have to run our offense through him, we will not succeed. BTW, the "this guy is a UL fan is a way overplayed, lazy response to someone you disagree with." Between that and the stupid nicknames "Cowaparia, Pimptino, UNCheats" this board often reminds me of my sixth grade great grandson. You people can do better than that. If you disagree, debate. Quit calling people names and saying they are UL fans. That is lazy and stupid.

 

[kyjeff1]

Nobody was upset with Oscar getting his $ in Bahamas. They knew he was earning a big payday and deserved it with his situation where he could make it out of the country. Never was told that at all. A few guys weren't happy with how Oscar approached the season in the Fall when everyone was on Campus, but it wasn't anything like it's been with a few guys throughout the Cal era.

I've heard more stories about guys not happy with Wheeler then Oscar. That never changed at any point during the season either.

That is more believable. I could also understand some of the things I read about Oscar overdoing the religion and preaching, but I can't imagine anyone getting upset because Oscar was trying to earn some money the only way he was allowed to.

 

[kyjeff1]

While I've read that some don't want Oscar back, I think they generally mean they don't want him back if he has to be the focal point of the team. I was one of the first here that said him being our focal point will keep us from being a contender. But, of course I would love to have him on the team, doing what he does best, which is rebound. But, again, if we have to run our offense through him, we will not succeed. BTW, the "this guy is a UL fan is a way overplayed, lazy response to someone you disagree with." Between that and the stupid nicknames "Cowaparia, Pimptino, UNCheats" this board often reminds me of my sixth grade great grandson. You people can do better than that. If you disagree, debate. Quit calling people names and saying they are UL fans. That is lazy and stupid.

Did you see the post I quoted when I called him a UofL fan? The guy trashed the hell out of Oscar. That is no UK fan. I really don't care if the 'UofL fan' thing is played out or not, I certainly haven't played it out, I rarely bring up anything Louisville, they aren't worth my time.

As for Oscar being the focal point, that is a Cal thing. That is Cal's #1 go to play, always has been.

We could be down 10 with 2 minutes left and Cal will waste half the shot clock trying to feed a double covered center.

He even tried to use Skal, Jackson, Ugo and Collins as post players. He’s obsessed with it.

 

[RalphDaltonFan]

That is more believable. I could also understand some of the things I read about Oscar overdoing the religion and preaching, but I can't imagine anyone getting upset because Oscar was trying to earn some money the only way he was allowed to.

Never heard it was about his faith at all. More about him not showing up in shape, and still living off the previous season. Could be some jealousy but wasn't anything that they didn't get over quickly. When a guy plays hard, they respect him.

Wheeler......different story and been talked to death but hindsight, should've brought in another guard and had him leave last year.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

From what I've heard that pissed a bunch off in the Bahamas, because he was out making money while they were practicing.

Well it shouldn’t because they are all about their money and opportunities while that was his sole opportunity to make money for the year. That’s a them and a law problem, not an Oscar problem.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

Never heard it was about his faith at all. More about him not showing up in shape, and still living off the previous season. Could be some jealousy but wasn't anything that they didn't get over quickly. When a guy plays hard, they respect him.

Wheeler......different story and been talked to death but hindsight, should've brought in another guard and had him leave last year.

I didn’t think so, I think the religion angle is being brought up by the same people who have a personal issue with it. I’ve seen more people talk about that than his actual play when discussing not wanting him back.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

But he would likely have also improved more by playing. And from FR year to Soph year is when you often see the biggest improvement

I think he will too, just saying everyone expecting him to be lights years ahead of Oscar are in for a surprise. Even on the defensive end overall. .

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

I refuse to believe any team that started Sahvir Wheeler was going to win anything until proven differently. I mean his Portal experience right now is kind of backing that up. If he was what was needed and missing piece, everyone would be lined up. If he was a bench guy? I'm supporting that, but kind of what I referred to in the other thread-this program has to get guys who play to the role and understand they aren't elite, they are role players. Wheeler had ego of the elite UK guards under Cal and the game of a good player, not elite. Good players at Kentucky are needed. Not disputing that at all, but if you refuse to accept the role, then you won't win.

TyTy's injury did '22 season in. Cal should've never allowed him to play in Tennessee game after dodging the bullet in the Florida game.

That being said, for the UNC/Kansas wins, the team was fading....and sucked in Postseason play. They had too many starters who disappeared in tough games/moments of games (Wheeler, Brooks, Grady in games away from Rupp).

Exactly,

 

[BlueWorldOrder74]

Like I said, he put up a lot of empty stats.

I’m not even trying to blame him for everything. But I would think it would be clear by now that having Oscar as the centerpiece of your team doesn’t lead to championship level basketball.

I get that fans like him. I’m sure some of you would rather see Oscar chase 20/20 nights than compete for a championship.

Or maybe you think Cal is washed and we’re going to lose anyway, so might as well have an All American putting up video game rebound numbers.

But I have trouble reconciling the position that keeping Oscar around will help lead us to a Title.

One, it hasn’t come close to working yet. Two, Cal doesn’t seem to want him here. Three, Oscar doesn’t seem to want to be here.

Seems like a recipe for disaster to me.

Dude, I’ve said this about three or four times and I get roasted by a few posters wh keep saying I hate Oscar because he’s a Christian. Why? I think it’s a rational thought process. I like Oscar a lot, but we haven’t exactly won anything; Cal ain’t going to change a bit so it’s probably best if we just don’t have him on the floor; and does he even want to really be here or is it just the best option to make some money?

 

[dc513]

While I've read that some don't want Oscar back, I think they generally mean they don't want him back if he has to be the focal point of the team. I was one of the first here that said him being our focal point will keep us from being a contender. But, of course I would love to have him on the team, doing what he does best, which is rebound. But, again, if we have to run our offense through him, we will not succeed. BTW, the "this guy is a UL fan is a way overplayed, lazy response to someone you disagree with." Between that and the stupid nicknames "Cowaparia, Pimptino, UNCheats" this board often reminds me of my sixth grade great grandson. You people can do better than that. If you disagree, debate. Quit calling people names and saying they are UL fans. That is lazy and stupid.

Agree.

 

[Rockfly78]

People forget that too, Ugo got scored on just like Oscar if not more in the small sample size. He definitely needs more time but if he had Oscars minutes it would be a lot more evident his flaws. He can be really good but it’s not like he’s a pure stopper right now.

Keep in mind that Ugo couldn't beat out ware for minutes. It's the old predictable practice of the fans thinking the backup QB hung the moon.

 

[fatguy87]

I've seen some things on this board in my time here.

I never thought I would see people not wanting back a former national player of the year or expect him to have a reduced role on the team lol.

It's because the teams he has played have underperformed in some manner.

Last year's team fell apart against a 15 seed while last year's team, despite some preseason number 1 rankings, was a total disappointed during the season.

A main contributor, rightly or wrongly, becomes inextricably linked to those results

 

[carolinacat]

Dude just say you've never coached before and move on.

Here is a video of 8 year olds being taught how to defend a ball screen and fight over the screen without having to hedge or switch (which you said were the only 2 options). It was the first result on google. If they can wrap their minds around it, I'm sure you can as well.




And you ignored the entire rest of my post about what you were also wrong about.

Let's just leave it at that.

No, let's don't leave it at that you arrogant ***. Every rep in that video involved ZERO fighting/displacing or even any contact at all. Tell me you've never officiated and just move on.

 

[The_Answer1313_rivals]

It's because the teams he has played have underperformed in some manner.

Last year's team fell apart against a 15 seed while last year's team, despite some preseason number 1 rankings, was a total disappointed during the season.

A main contributor, rightly or wrongly, becomes inextricably linked to those results

I understand.

It just seems very wrongly to link the two together tho. Every year in this sport there are some very good players on flat out bad teams. It doesn't make them any less of a player and it doesn't mean they caused their teams to be bad.

Did Oscar contribute to the poor defense the past two years? Yeah sure. Of course.

I guess I just value what Oscar does provide compared to some others. And I don't for one second believe we couldn't win a title with him playing significant minutes.

We proved to be a very good team a year ago. We all know what can happen in a one and done tournament. We've seen some really good teams get upset this year too. Just like most years. It doesn't take away from the fact that we had a team that was going into that tournament very much considered a title contender. That was with Oscar.

 

[26MichaelUK]

We will never go far if Oscar is getting sizeable minutes. His game just does not translate to team success or modern basketball. The pro-Oscar people are enamored by him for something entirely unrelated to basketball. Good representative, but a liability as a player. If he comes back, I hope it's thoroughly explained to him that it will have to be a very reduced role.

I'm pro Oscar for his rebounding, which gives us so many extra shots and he's an automatic double double. I think it's insane UK fans don't want him back. People are always complaining we won't win with a title with K almost exclusively freshman. If he and Reeves come back that would be huge.

I swear we have the most bipolar fans sometimes.

 

[26MichaelUK]

Like I said, he put up a lot of empty stats.

I’m not even trying to blame him for everything. But I would think it would be clear by now that having Oscar as the centerpiece of your team doesn’t lead to championship level basketball.

I get that fans like him. I’m sure some of you would rather see Oscar chase 20/20 nights than compete for a championship.

Or maybe you think Cal is washed and we’re going to lose anyway, so might as well have an All American putting up video game rebound numbers.

But I have trouble reconciling the position that keeping Oscar around will help lead us to a Title.

One, it hasn’t come close to working yet. Two, Cal doesn’t seem to want him here. Three, Oscar doesn’t seem to want to be here.

Seems like a recipe for disaster to me.

Aike why are you on that side of the argument?
What do you mean empty stats? Does that mean every player puts up empty stats? And Oscar would have better players than he ever had around him so he wouldn't need to be first option. Without him we def would've missed the tournament. His offensive rebounds gets us multiple shots.

Ah now I see why you're on that side, you don't think we can win a title with him correct? I respect your opinion though.