Kratch Nails Offensive Woes

Knight Shift

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May 19, 2011
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If you want to feel even worse, read it. It is a good read.
https://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/...s-ashs-4th-season-here-are-7-reasons-why.html

@NickRU714 -- interesting quote by McNulty. You are not a fan of his, but he has a good point:

“Art got hit 10 times, which is ridiculous,’’ the Rutgers offensive coordinator after the Indiana loss. “The pass protection was horrible. I don't know how long that can continue. It better not. … I don't think it's a very complex scheme. In the end, you have to block the guy. There's no magic potion. I told them the other day, 'I'll keep trying to find the plays where we don't have to block anyone.’ But I don't know what (those plays) are."
 

chrisru99

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So what is it players or coaching? As I said many times you can put Tom Landry as the head coach and we would still suck. We do not have enough good players to win. That’s 2 years in a row McNulty has slammed the OL. Many conveniently blames Blazek when he left on his own and stepped down from the BIG to North Freaking Dakota LoL. Are you guys gonna now blame the new OL coach? He is loud at practice which was good enough to make him better than Blazek.
 
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theRU

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I always felt this to be the case. We also seem to have defenders attack through gaps between the guard and tackles and even center and guards alot more than i see in other teams. That essentially means they have a straight path to the qb for sacks and hurries which really destroy any offensive play. If we could create pockets and at least make the DEs take the long route around the tackles, that would give us a better chance even if they got there in 2.5 seconds vs 1.
 
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Knight Shift

Heisman
May 19, 2011
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So what is it players or coaching? As I said many times you can put Tom Landry as the head coach and we would still suck. We do not have enough good players to win. That’s 2 years in a row McNulty has slammed the OL. Many conveniently blames Blazek when he left on his own and stepped down from the BIG to North Freaking Dakota LoL. Are you guys gonna now blame the new OL coach? He is loud at practice which was good enough to make him better than Blazek.
Unless I missed it, what I don't understand is there seemed to be multiple plays on offense when Epenesa of Iowa was not double teamed on blocking. That is on the coaches.

As far as blocking others, that's on the players.
 
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theRU

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So what is it players or coaching? As I said many times you can put Tom Landry as the head coach and we would still suck. We do not have enough good players to win. That’s 2 years in a row McNulty has slammed the OL. Many conveniently blames Blazek when he left on his own and stepped down from the BIG to North Freaking Dakota LoL. Are you guys gonna now blame the new OL coach? He is loud at practice which was good enough to make him better than Blazek.
I really don't feel that our coaching is the problem. Is it the cream of the crop? No, buts its certainly not bottom barrel. We look completely out matched, and I dont think thats scheme. Thats the players.... ultimately its the coaches responsibility to find better players. Thats why I want schiano. We'll still suck this year, but he legit improves recruiting the second he steps in. Ash just can't recruit to RU ( key here is RU). The guy probably does fine when he can recruit on name brand, but he doesn't have it to a challenged place like RU.
 

superfan01

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So what is it players or coaching? As I said many times you can put Tom Landry as the head coach and we would still suck. We do not have enough good players to win. That’s 2 years in a row McNulty has slammed the OL. Many conveniently blames Blazek when he left on his own and stepped down from the BIG to North Freaking Dakota LoL. Are you guys gonna now blame the new OL coach? He is loud at practice which was good enough to make him better than Blazek.

It’s both but the coaching is more to blame. First they recruit and develop the players. Secondly, Many smaller schools with less talent than us play the big boys each week and are able to pass for more than 100 yards on a regular basis. They might get blown out but they still have a little pulse on offense occasionally.
Other than umass game this year and Texas st game last guest when was the last time we had a 30 yard reception in a game? Serious question. Cause it wasn’t last year.
 

theRU

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I know this is going to hurt because as fans you guys can never admit that RU sucks,, but we effing suck. These coaches do not forget how to freaking coach. The issue is and will always be recruiting. Ash didn't forget how to run a D, his style just doesnt fit a team that lacks talent. His recruiting pitch doesn't work for RU, he did fine at OSU and Wisky. Same for Mcnulty. He didn't forget how to OC. He did fine here with BETTER PLAYERS.

I'm not saying the coaches aren't responsible- they are. They recruit. But we have been so bad historically, that we just don't get enough good players who want to be here. We get scraps right now. 60% of this team- maybe more doesn't belong in a P5. If schiano comes back- i promise you, we are looking at maybe 3 years if we're lucky to get back to 6-6 or 5-7. Mark it down.
 

Knight Shift

Heisman
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It’s both but the coaching is more to blame. First they recruit and develop the players. Secondly, Many smaller schools with less talent than us play the big boys each week and are able to pass for more than 100 yards on a regular basis. They might get blown out but they still have a little pulse on offense occasionally.
Other than umass game this year and Texas st game last guest when was the last time we had a 30 yard reception in a game? Serious question. Cause it wasn’t last year.
Look no further than Miami of Ohio, who played Iowa the week before us.

Total Offense: 245 Yards, 14 Points
Passing : 17/27 (63%) for 186 Yards and 2 TD--from a Freshman with no P5 offers.

Their OL- Three 2 star athletes with no P5 offers and two 3 star athletes.

How does that happen, while our passing game is anemic?
 

Knight Shift

Heisman
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I know this is going to hurt because as fans you guys can never admit that RU sucks,, but we effing suck. These coaches do not forget how to freaking coach. The issue is and will always be recruiting. Ash didn't forget how to run a D, his style just doesnt fit a team that lacks talent. His recruiting pitch doesn't work for RU, he did fine at OSU and Wisky. Same for Mcnulty. He didn't forget how to OC. He did fine here with BETTER PLAYERS.

I'm not saying the coaches aren't responsible- they are. They recruit. But we have been so bad historically, that we just don't get enough good players who want to be here. We get scraps right now. 60% of this team- maybe more doesn't belong in a P5. If schiano comes back- i promise you, we are looking at maybe 3 years if we're lucky to get back to 6-6 or 5-7. Mark it down.

Explain the Miami of Ohio offensive output versus Rutgers against Iowa if it is talent.
 

MoobyCow

Heisman
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Look no further than Miami of Ohio, who played Iowa the week before us.

Total Offense: 245 Yards, 14 Points
Passing : 17/27 (63%) for 186 Yards and 2 TD--from a Freshman with no P5 offers.

Their OL- Three 2 star athletes with no P5 offers and two 3 star athletes.

How does that happen, while our passing game is anemic?

This plus teams like Army playing competitive football week in and week out leads me to believe it's coaching.

I mean, we'd suck with the best of coaches and this roster, but not like this. This is bad coaching plus a weak roster.
 

Knight Shift

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This plus teams like Army playing competitive football week in and week out leads me to believe it's coaching.

I mean, we'd suck with the best of coaches and this roster, but not like this. This is bad coaching plus a weak roster.
75% coaching 25% roster, IMO. Why didn't Ash go for it here, other than he is a gutless, risk-adverse gameday coach:

Rutgers, down 7-0 in the second quarter, faced a fourth-and-2 from the Iowa 42. Most fans would have called for the Scarlet Knights to leave the offense out on the field and go for it. Or for Ash to take a gamble and call for a fake punt to try to get the first down.

What did the Scarlet Knights opt to do? They punted. Iowa got the ball on its own 3 (kudos to Adam Korsak) … and then went 97 yards for a touchdown
 

Chicago_Glenn

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If you want to feel even worse, read it. It is a good read.
https://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/...s-ashs-4th-season-here-are-7-reasons-why.html

@NickRU714 -- interesting quote by McNulty. You are not a fan of his, but he has a good point:

“Art got hit 10 times, which is ridiculous,’’ the Rutgers offensive coordinator after the Indiana loss. “The pass protection was horrible. I don't know how long that can continue. It better not. … I don't think it's a very complex scheme. In the end, you have to block the guy. There's no magic potion. I told them the other day, 'I'll keep trying to find the plays where we don't have to block anyone.’ But I don't know what (those plays) are."


This is a “chicken or the egg” situation. It’s both coaching and talent. However, talent still is the responsibility of the coaches so it is 100% on the coaches. This isn’t year 1 where they can blame the prior coach.

As for these coaches being successful elsewhere - most of that success was because they had better talent. So, having less talent ultimately points to limits on their coaching ability. A great coach can work with whatever they get dealt and make it better. Maybe not make an overnight transformation into a powerhouse but some noticeable progress leads to improvement both on the field and off with better recruits eventually narrowing the talent deficits.

Schiano had a bigger problem when he started with no recent history of success. But he understood what he was dealing with and took immediate steps from day 1 to address (eg, hire an old time well-connected NJ high school coach; keep the billboards and recruiting up in Florida; change the image (Block R/Keep on Chopping, etc.). Even borrowed from the USC marketing boom and brought in the celebrity element.

It was a process to get to where he got us from both a perception and a reality perspective. He was probably a better marketer and business person than an X&O coach (but a very good defensive coach), but being a good head coach goes beyond just X&Os. He ultimately created an image of Rutgers where kids wanted to come to Rutgers to play and fans wanted to come to games.

The problem with Ash is that he may be just a good defensive coach and that’s it. He isn’t a great front person or marketer of the program (in some ways, has set us back by abandoning what Schiano put in place) and does not appear to know the business side well. And he also seems to be learning on the job, clearly not initially understanding that Rutgers is not Ohio State.

He and his coaches ultimately own the recruiting/talent end and can’t continue to blame the players for the lack of success on the field year over year. McNulty may be correct that the OL can’t compete with B1G DL talent, but if you know that (and he should by now) what do you do as a coach to adapt and address that issue. Using the same playbook that was successful at another school and hoping it will work here where there may be a greater talent deficit is on him. Been going on too long and for too many games for him not to realize it isn’t working. So, he should start to look in the mirror and point the finger at himself for a start as to where are the offensive problems.

There are a lot of teams with greater deficits in talent (at least on paper) that fare better than us against these same teams and that tells you were the real problems are.

With McNulty it seems the buck stops over there....

-CG
 

theRU

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Explain the Miami of Ohio offensive output versus Rutgers against Iowa if it is talent.
Just because they are miami of ohio doesn't mean they don't have better players. Stop thinking along the lines P5 vs non P5.

Also- And i'm not familiar with many of the non name brand schools and the styles they play, but we haven't thrown in the towel and decided to hire a coach who runs a gimmick system designed for worse personnel. We kept and tried pro style, then abandoned for spread and abandoned that again mid shift. If we want to go Army or Georgia Tech ( if they still do) then thats a new approach. We have a guy who came from OSU and doesn't realize he doesn't have OSU players.

We can't hire an engineer from Ferrari and put him in a Chrysler plant on a Chrysler budget and expect a Ferrari to come out at the end of the line guys! That guy still knows how to build a Ferrari, but we're not giving him the parts because we're RU and we dont buy players.
 

Knight Shift

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Just because they are miami of ohio doesn't mean they don't have better players. Stop thinking along the lines P5 vs non P5.

Also- And i'm not familiar with many of the non name brand schools and the styles they play, but we haven't thrown in the towel and decided to hire a coach who runs a gimmick system designed for worse personnel. We kept and tried pro style, then abandoned for spread and abandoned that again mid shift. If we want to go Army or Georgia Tech ( if they still do) then thats a new approach. We have a guy who came from OSU and doesn't realize he doesn't have OSU players.

We can't hire an engineer from Ferrari and put him in a Chrysler plant on a Chrysler budget and expect a Ferrari to come out at the end of the line guys! That guy still knows how to build a Ferrari, but we're not giving him the parts because we're RU and we dont buy players.
I listed their OL and recruiting rankings. Their QB was a true freshman with zero P5 offers. It is unfortunate that we have either or both lesser talented players and coaches than a MAC team that can put up a semblance of a fight against Iowa.
 
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MoobyCow

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We can't hire an engineer from Ferrari and put him in a Chrysler plant on a Chrysler budget and expect a Ferrari to come out at the end of the line guys! That guy still knows how to build a Ferrari, but we're not giving him the parts because we're RU and we dont buy players.

That's one argument against Schiano (never figured out how to beat teams with better talent, and no matter how well he recruits that's going to be a big chunk of our schedule).
 
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theRU

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I listed their OL and recruiting rankings. Their QB was a true freshman with zero P5 offers. It is unfortunate that we have either or both lesser talented players and coaches than a MAC team that can put up a semblance of a fight against Iowa.
I hear you but you can't look at rankings. Some schools find hidden gems all the time because they are familiar with areas that don't get coverage. NJ gets alot of coverage. Our top players clearly get recognized, and some times undervalued. But I also believe we have many guys rated as 3 stars that really don't deserve that rank. Some 2's are missed entirely. Its not a perfect science in that space. And unranked guys haven't been evaluated. So who knows what they really would be.
 
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theRU

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That's one argument against Schiano (never figured out how to beat teams with better talent, and no matter how well he recruits that's going to be a big chunk of our schedule).
Yup, but he can sell a program like RU. He can improve talent. He can run an aggressive scheme that can win you games or get you royally burned. I'm ok with that and i'd take it in a heart beat. Thats also why I said to put it in the books that after 3 or more years we're still looking at 5-7 or 6-6. I'll take that for another 20 years over what we have now.

And at that point, in 20 years of a mediocre program status, we'll no longer be a laughing stock and that will help the next guy recruit.
 

RobertG

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Jul 25, 2001
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Ash has had 4 years to build a team. In those 4 years he has not either recruited talent, nor coached up players, nor out schemed better teams. There is no way to look at the game against Iowa and not pin a total disaster on Ash.

The stats speak for themselves, 0 points less than 50 yards throwing and less than 200 yards total.

In 4 years there should be better performance.
 

MoobyCow

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Yup, but he can sell a program like RU. He can improve talent. He can run an aggressive scheme that can win you games or get you royally burned. I'm ok with that and i'd take it in a heart beat. Thats also why I said to put it in the books that after 3 or more years we're still looking at 5-7 or 6-6. I'll take that for another 20 years over what we have now.

And at that point, in 20 years of a mediocre program status, we'll no longer be a laughing stock and that will help the next guy recruit.

I get it, and I understand the point of view. All I'm saying it is likely a legitimate trade-off we'd have to live with. In year 7 we'll be 1 game away from something great and he'll get curb stomped by Illinois and you'll have to think back to this day and remember that you were OK with year after year of soul crushing losses keeping you just away from the promised land.
 

Scarlet_Scourge

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May 25, 2012
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So what is it players or coaching? As I said many times you can put Tom Landry as the head coach and we would still suck. We do not have enough good players to win. That’s 2 years in a row McNulty has slammed the OL. Many conveniently blames Blazek when he left on his own and stepped down from the BIG to North Freaking Dakota LoL. Are you guys gonna now blame the new OL coach? He is loud at practice which was good enough to make him better than Blazek.

It is both.

Bad Recruiting, bad coaching up and bad schemes, you name it and it stinks.

McNulty is trying to make chicken salad out of chicken sh#t. He really got his work cut out for him. The blame for this all falls on ASH.

I don't blame the players, it is not their fault that a lot of them shouldn't be playing in the Big Ten or even FBS. Can't blame them for taking a full scholarship when offered! Good for them!

Bad for us.
 
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RUSK97

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Look no further than Miami of Ohio, who played Iowa the week before us.

Total Offense: 245 Yards, 14 Points
Passing : 17/27 (63%) for 186 Yards and 2 TD--from a Freshman with no P5 offers.

Their OL- Three 2 star athletes with no P5 offers and two 3 star athletes.

How does that happen, while our passing game is anemic?
I watched the majority of that game. Their passing game put Iowa’s back 7 on its heels. Those unheralded WRs were a lot more athletic than ours. Not that Iowa didn’t pressure their QB, but there’s absolutely no doubt their OL was better.

For the OL, it comes down to either/or:
1) Ash and co screwed the pooch big time when it came to assessing big man talent
2) Blazek did nothing to coach up these raw recruits
3) Those recruits collectively just didn’t develop to their anticipated potential.
 
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So what is it players or coaching? As I said many times you can put Tom Landry as the head coach and we would still suck. We do not have enough good players to win. That’s 2 years in a row McNulty has slammed the OL. Many conveniently blames Blazek when he left on his own and stepped down from the BIG to North Freaking Dakota LoL. Are you guys gonna now blame the new OL coach? He is loud at practice which was good enough to make him better than Blazek.
The quote as from last year’s Indiana game.
 
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GoodOl'Rutgers

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Sep 11, 2006
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I don't blame the OL yet.. if the passing game cannot punish defenses for blitzing.. they will stunt and blitz all day and make it very difficult for any OLine.
 

RUinPinehurst

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Hire coaching staff with proven success. Simple, if you have the $ and the will to win.
 

Retired711

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Excellent article by Kratch. Ash keeps stressing how supportive the players are, so even he isn't trying to put the blame on them. Instead, it comes down to recruiting, developing players, and game-day coaching; we seem poor in all areas. It's scandalous that we've changed offensive philosophies so often, and tried to fit round pegs into square holes.
 

cicero grimes

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I really don't feel that our coaching is the problem. Is it the cream of the crop? No, buts its certainly not bottom barrel. We look completely out matched, and I dont think thats scheme. Thats the players.... ultimately its the coaches responsibility to find better players. Thats why I want schiano. We'll still suck this year, but he legit improves recruiting the second he steps in. Ash just can't recruit to RU ( key here is RU). The guy probably does fine when he can recruit on name brand, but he doesn't have it to a challenged place like RU.
One of the preseason publications maybe Lindy's had a section on what other coaches were saying (anom) about their competitors programs. The consensus was we were competing with MAC teams for players not B1G teams. Harsh but true.
 
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