Kellenberger on Dan today

[esplanade91]

I don't look to him for guidance, but as the highest paid state employee and having the podium in which he does I think he should speak up about it.

You can't downplay the significance of sports in social politics and then tell everyone how proud you are of "The Game of Change." Not you specifically, but in general.

 

[ColonelJohnSartoris]

I don't look to him for guidance, but as the highest paid state employee and having the podium in which he does I think he should speak up about it.

You can't downplay the significance of sports in social politics and then tell everyone how proud you are of "The Game of Change." Not you specifically, but in general.

I think your comments have been spot on in this thread.

It's clear that Mullen and Freeze are arguably the most influential figureheads in the state and a few words from their mouths would at least open the ears of the uninformed and close-minded. When something is as clear cut of a decision as the flag issue is, I think the coaches should use their position and pedestal to push the message since they will be listened to.

Since Mullen hit the exact talking points from Salter's release a few weeks ago, it does seem like he was coached on how to answer the question which was pretty much to not lean in any direction. Even though most of you appear to be in favor of removing the symbol from the flag and you want your school to come out strongly in that position, I think you're in the minority of your fanbase and it would cause a helluva an uproar.

 

[Snog]

I think your comments have been spot on in this thread.

It's clear that Mullen and Freeze are arguably the most influential figureheads in the state and a few words from their mouths would at least open the ears of the uninformed and close-minded. When something is as clear cut of a decision as the flag issue is, I think the coaches should use their position and pedestal to push the message since they will be listened to.

Since Mullen hit the exact talking points from Salter's release a few weeks ago, it does seem like he was coached on how to answer the question which was pretty much to not lean in any direction. Even though most of you appear to be in favor of removing the symbol from the flag and you want your school to come out strongly in that position, I think you're in the minority of your fanbase and it would cause a helluva an uproar.

The majority of your fanbase...........

Do you see the backhanded hypocrisy in that statement?

 

[tatedog]

I think your comments have been spot on in this thread.

It's clear that Mullen and Freeze are arguably the most influential figureheads in the state and a few words from their mouths would at least open the ears of the uninformed and close-minded. When something is as clear cut of a decision as the flag issue is, I think the coaches should use their position and pedestal to push the message since they will be listened to.

Since Mullen hit the exact talking points from Salter's release a few weeks ago, it does seem like he was coached on how to answer the question which was pretty much to not lean in any direction. Even though most of you appear to be in favor of removing the symbol from the flag and you want your school to come out strongly in that position, I think you're in the minority of your fanbase and it would cause a helluva an uproar.

As much as I'd like to take offense at this, I can't. I've talked to 3 fellow State fans I know personally in casual conversation about this and they all felt that Keenum's statement went too far. Didn't get much more into it than that mostly because I didn't want to.

 

[barely]

Eh, I mean... I'm glad he told everyone that we don't fly it and that MSU is the most diverse school in the conference, but it's pretty easy to read between the lines on this one.

He redirected a few times and basically ended up saying nothing while saying something because he doesn't want to step on the toes of the people who think the flag is important enough to keep that they'd shun the head coach. And based on the Facebook comments and everything else over MSU's statement (that more or less said the same) I think that was probably a warranted fear.

I'm extremely proud of the fact that MSU is so diverse and goes extremely far out of the way to deflect southern stereotypes. I don't think it's as well know as it should be. But this was Dan playing politics. And I didn't think he would.

guess he should have consulted with his local "message board hero" before taking to the podium.

 

[SheltonChoked]

Spurrier was asked about the Mississippi State Flag? Yeah. I don't think it should be flown on South Carolina's campus either.


But in reality, MSU is required to fly the MS State flag in a few places. And they do. But no more than that.


And Dan repeated the party line. As he should. It's not his place to determine politics. If the question had been framed differently, like, " does the presence of the battle flag of the be my of northern Virginia in the canton of the ms state flag affect recruiting African American athletes to MSU?" Then he might have had a stronger answer. And said what kellenbuger wanted. But they didn't ask that.

 

[dawgstudent]

I just hope they give Freeze the same opportunity and go further with questions about Ole Miss and the nickname of Rebels.

 

[fishwater99]

Freeze needs to be asked the same question and also about his team name, the Rebels, the confederate flag flying in the grove and if they should change the school name from Ole Miss b/c it is racist.

 

[GhostOfJackie]

It was a total deflection. Spurrier was asked the same question earlier this year and he said "they should take the damn thing down" without hesitation. Kinda wish he would've been his usual brash, yankee, "don't sugarcoat ****" self on this one. He's a coach/salesman/swagmaster, not a politician but sometimes you gotta play politics.

Why? Take a stand so he can alienate and piss off half of his fan base? Since when does a football coach get into political ******** like this? Some of you need to grow some balls and stand up to these wormy media types (Kellenberger, I'm looking at you) and quit letting them take shots at Mississippi for no reason.

By the way, that was the biggest troll article I have ever seen written by him. It was also the first Clarion Ledger article I have read since last football season.

 

[patdog]

Mullen and Freeze are both in kind of a no-win situation. If they take a stand one way or the other, they're going to piss off half the fanbase. They've both said they'd like the flag changed, but neither is making a big deal of it right now. Which I think is the proper response for both of them. Steve Spurrier has been saying for years that he'd like to see the Confederate battle flag taken down, but it didn't' come down because of him.

 

[grimedawg1]

Mullen handled the question fine

Kellenberger acts as if Mullen is his own boss and is king of his domain. But, Mullen is an employee of a state school (regardless of his salary) who reports to the AD, and the AD reports to the President. The President has to navigate in an environment and interact with IHL, legislators, the Gov and Lt Gov, students, faculty and boosters. I would not doubt if Keenum has already heard from some elected officials not to make an issue of the flag. The University has already released a statement on its position. The University released a statement that said each of its coaches support its position. The University supports a change. Kellenberger acts as if Mullen ought to slam the table and say "By God, we need to change that flag." But, it is pretty clear the whole university's position is to support a change of the flag but to try to do that in a way that is not inflammatory. You can argue the university should be more or less aggressive, but I don't think it is a bad position at all to support changing the flag but avoid trying to be inflammatory about it.

 

[rem101]

Mullen and Freeze are both in kind of a no-win situation. If they take a stand one way or the other, they're going to piss off half the fanbase. They've both said they'd like the flag changed, but neither is making a big deal of it right now. Which I think is the proper response for both of them. Steve Spurrier has been saying for years that he'd like to see the Confederate battle flag taken down, but it didn't' come down because of him.

This is what I don't understand. Hell, Kellenberger and Bonner wrote the damn article. Why do they keep insisting on them providing further detail? This goes for both Dan and Hugh.
http://sports.usatoday.com/2015/07/10/mullen-freeze-among-coaches-supporting-flag-change/

 

[patdog]

I tried to give Kellenberger the benefit of the doubt when he moved from UM beat writer to his current position. But he's really just a bad reporter/columnist who apparently has a real ax to grind with Mullen. Bonner, on the other hand, I think does a pretty good job.

 

[RebelBruiser]

See, I think he did have a response. He talked about his university, & its diversity, not flying the flag, etc. To me he put the burden on the coach of the school with stronger ties to the emblem in question. An elongated, more diplomatic "There's certainly one program in this state on the rise."

That's not an answer to the question though.

You could just as easily say ALL of those things and still say you support keeping the flag.

That's why it's a non-answer to the question. You have to know that question is coming though, and as a football coach with a team that's probably 80% AA, the right answer is "change it" because it's a hurtful symbol to a lot of people in particular to the players you're coaching and recruiting.

You can crawfish some by saying it's up to the legislature to make the move, but there is no reason NOT to take a definitive stance against the current flag.

I get that they're football coaches opining on social issues, but they're also the highest paid state employees, and they're in positions to lead in more than just football. We will see how Freeze handles it, but I'm betting he takes a strong stance against it, just like our chancellor and AD both did.

ETA: If Freeze doesn't take a strong, unequivocal stance against the current flag, I'll be disappointed. Both Stocks (Chancellor) and Bjork already did so, and I expect he'll do the same. This issue really is pretty simple. Yes, I know many of our older alums don't agree with the Chancellor and Bjork on this issue, but Bjork and Stocks weren't concerned about offending them. They're trying to move to the future with or without those folks. The vast majority of them will come along with them.

 

[OleMissLogo]

Not to mention that MSU ISN'T the most diverse school in the SEC. So that means his two major points were just flat out wrong.

 

[fishwater99]

Not to mention that MSU ISN'T the most diverse school in the SEC. So that means his two major points were just flat out wrong.

Then which school would that be? Surely not the racist school up north that is named after a slave plantation owner's wife..

 

[Hump4Hoops]

MSU has the highest black entollment % in SEC.

I think only Vandy has an overall higher minority %, and they don't really count.

 

[aTotal360]

MSU is the most diverse school in the SEC. #FACT

 

[dawgstudent]

What's funny is that none of the other CL sports reporters have so much as tweeted the link or complimented him on it.

 

[OleMissLogo]

Then which school would that be? Surely not the racist school up north that is named after a slave plantation owner's wife..

That would be Florida, then Vanderbilt.

But it certainly isn't the school whose first president was a civil war general.

 

[Maroonthirteen]

Don't be dumb. He was talking about the Confederate flag, not the Mississippi flag.

Thank you! He was referring to the Confederate flag dumbasstyree.

Gosh I fn hate Ole Miss fans.

 

[RebelBruiser]

I think only Vandy has an overall higher minority %, and they don't really count.

Florida is the most diverse, only 59% white. MSU is 72% white.

I think MSU has the highest African American percentage (around 23%), but Florida is the most diverse. They're about 20% Latino, 8% African American, and 8% Asian.

For the record, we aren't far behind you at 75% white and 15% African American.

So the statement should be that MSU has the largest African American population in the SEC, not that it's the most diverse.

ETA: Vanderbilt is 64% white, about 9% Asian, 9% African American, and 8% Latino.

Those percentages don't count mixed race, unknown, American Indian, or Pacific Islander. Those are the primary ones that make up the difference for those schools, but they're small enough numbers I didn't show them.

So if you're using the definition of lowest percentage of majority, State is not the most diverse. Edited to include the actual white percentages at each SEC school:

1. Florida - 59.1%
2. Vanderbilt - 64.1%
3. Texas A&M - 68.8%
4. MSU - 71.6%
5. Georgia - 73.9%
6. Ole Miss - 75.3%
7T. South Carolina - 78.0%
7T. LSU - 78.0%
9. Kentucky - 79.9%
10. Alabama - 80.9%
11. Arkansas - 81.0%
12. Tennessee - 81.8%
13. Missouri - 82.1%
14. Auburn - 86.0%

As an aside, this only counts the main campuses for each. Auburn's number really surprised me. I expected Arkansas, Missouri, and Tennessee to be near the bottom, as those states don't house much in the way of minority populations other than spots in urban centers like Memphis or St. Louis.

But by that measure, MSU is the 4th most diverse.

My source was collegedata.com. I'm sure the numbers might be slightly different depending on where you find them, but I think those numbers are largely accurate.

 

[EAVdog]

I've heard this ridiculous talking point 3 times this morning alone!

Not to mention that MSU ISN'T the most diverse school in the SEC. So that means his two major points were just flat out wrong.

What the hell are you Ole Miss fans smoking?

Mississippi State is head and shoulders above all other SEC schools when it comes to African American student population. MSU is the only school that is even close to being a true representation of the racial population of it's State and Region.

http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/...-american-enrollment-at-sec-schools/36304946/

http://study.com/article_directory/College_and_University_Overviews_(by_State).html

He's right both times. The Confederate Battle flag is not something seen on campus outside of when the Egg Bowl is in Starkville.

 

[OleMissLogo]

What the hell are you Ole Miss fans smoking?

Mississippi State is head and shoulders above all other SEC schools when it comes to African American student population.

Cool. That's not the definition of diversity. Good try, though. His statement is false. Period.

He's right both times. The Confederate Battle flag is not something seen on campus outside of when the Egg Bowl is in Starkville.

The question wasn't about the Confederate Battle flag. It was about the Mississippi state flag.

 

[TSUNBearHunter]

What the hell are you Ole Miss fans smoking?

Mississippi State is head and shoulders above all other SEC schools when it comes to African American student population. MSU is the only school that is even close to being a true representation of the racial population of it's State and Region.

http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/...-american-enrollment-at-sec-schools/36304946/

http://study.com/article_directory/College_and_University_Overviews_(by_State).html

He's right both times. The Confederate Battle flag is not something seen on campus outside of when the Egg Bowl is in Starkville.

Diversity means non-white. You do understand that asians, latinos, hispanics, etc are minorities.

MSU isn't more diverse than Florida, Vandy, Texas A&M, etc.

 

[GhostOfJackie]

This is what I don't understand. Hell, Kellenberger and Bonner wrote the damn article. Why do they keep insisting on them providing further detail? This goes for both Dan and Hugh.
http://sports.usatoday.com/2015/07/10/mullen-freeze-among-coaches-supporting-flag-change/

Because that's what wormy media types do. They leave high school being made fun of and bullied their entire life. They leave college with an ego and an axe to grind. Kellenberger must not realize he is pissing off more than half the state. If he wants to be a professional, then be a professional, but don't be a f'n troll.

ETA: Brian and Bob are not "wormy media types".

 

[EAVdog]

Cool. That's not the definition of diversity. Good try, though. His statement is false. Period.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]'the state of having people who are different races or who have different cultures in a group or organization' - respect to the issue of the flag this definition is the most appropriate in reference to African American enrollment. When it comes to racial diversity the topic is never judged solely on the number of different ethnicity groups represented in the composite. Ole Miss could have 1 person from 100 different ethnicities and only have 100 non-white students in total. That is not or never will be considered as 'Diverse' in our culture. [/FONT]Don't even pretend like Ole Miss is some bastion of diversity. Your response is idiotic at best.

The question wasn't about the Confederate Battle flag. It was about the Mississippi state flag.

Again, the State Flag is only flown where it is required to be. The State Flag nor the Confederate Flag is a symbol that is commonplace.

 

[EAVdog]

Diversity means non-white. You do understand that asians, latinos, hispanics, etc are minorities.

MSU isn't more diverse than Florida, Vandy, Texas A&M, etc.

Diverse in respect to African American enrollment.

 

[OleMissLogo]

'the state of having people who are different races or who have different cultures in a group or organization' - respect to the issue of the flag this definition is the most appropriate in reference to African American enrollment. When it comes to racial diversity the topic is never judged solely on the number of different ethnicity groups represented in the composite. Ole Miss could have 1 person from 100 different ethnicities and only have 100 non-white students in total. That is not or never will be considered as 'Diverse' in our culture. Don't even pretend like Ole Miss is some bastion of diversity. Your response is idiotic at best.

Again, the State Flag is only flown where it is required to be. The State Flag nor the Confederate Flag is a symbol that is commonplace.

Yo, buddy, where did I mention Ole Miss? You do realize that "MSU is not the most diverse school" does not mean "Ole Miss is more diverse than MSU", right.

And here is Mullen's exact quote regarding the MISSISSIPPI STATE FLAG: "We don't have it on our campus up."

Is the flag flown ANYWHERE on campus? Yes? Then Mullen is wrong. Period.

 

[Hump4Hoops]

Wow, you rebels are REALLY passionate about this.

"This" being trying to prove Mullen wrong on an insignificant detail, which detracts very little fom his overall point.

 

[EAVdog]

Yo, buddy, where did I mention Ole Miss? You do realize that "MSU is not the most diverse school" does not mean "Ole Miss is more diverse than MSU", right.

And here is Mullen's exact quote regarding the MISSISSIPPI STATE FLAG: "We don't have it on our campus up."

Is the flag flown ANYWHERE on campus? Yes? Then Mullen is wrong. Period.

I was only using the 'Madame of the Plantation' as an example. When speaking about a topic that is most relevant to African Americans it is appropriate to consider the Diversity of the University in respect to African American enrollment. MSU is the most diverse campus in respect to African American enrollment. Happy? I'm sure the Asian/Latino/Hispanic students at Florida are extremely concerned about the State Flag of Mississippi.

I assume you will be back to give us your report and full parsing of Pastor Freeze's comment?

 

[DancingRabbit]

"Latino" is not a race. UF enrollment is 6% African-American.

Considering the context is also appropriate. I don't think the Rebel flag was a major symbol of oppression to Latinos.

 

[OleMissLogo]

So, what you are saying is that when Salter, Keenum, and now Mullen say that "MSU is the most diverse campus" (period, full stop) what they really mean is "MSU is the most diverse campus, when you add a bunch of qualifiers and only consider one minority"?

That makes sense and totally isn't misleading (at best) or just plain wrong (at worst).

 

[OleMissLogo]

[h=2]"Latino" is not a race. UF enrollment is 6% African-American.[/h]Considering the context is also appropriate. I don't think the Rebel flag was a major symbol of oppression to Latinos.

Diversity is not strictly white/black enrollment. It never has been.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

You Ole Miss chatterboxes have your fun today because when the PC crowd takes full aim at your backyard, you ain't gonna enjoy it too much.

I don't think Dan should inflect his personal opinions in a question like that, in a setting like that. I would imagine he was told what to say by the Prez of MSU or Strickland.

You Reb trollers just hang on, you're gonna have a fun ride with this subject this season.

 

[OleMissLogo]

I don't think Dan should inflect his personal opinions in a question like that, in a setting like that. I would imagine he was told what to say by the Prez of MSU or Strickland.

I'm sure he was told exactly what to say. And while I think Kellenberger should have toned back his obvious frustration a bit, I do get why he is frustrated. Apparently, the CL made it clear to both schools that they would be asking the question at Media Days, and he was wanting something more than a regurgitation of Salter's statement. It's understandable why Kellenberger is frustrated, but the editor should have caught the tone and had him make some changes.

With that said, that doesn't change the fact that Mullen (and Salter) are just flat out wrong on the diversity talking point. I'm sure Dan doesn't know the enrollment numbers, nor would I expect him to. And if you read my posts, I'm not saying "Mullen is dumb for being wrong har har." It really falls back on Salter. But I'm pointing out that the information is incorrect, because it is. Period.

 

[RebelBruiser]

"This" being trying to prove Mullen wrong on an insignificant detail, which detracts very little fom his overall point.

I guess the other angle is we could just be calling him a LIAR and a person of poor character over making statements that are false, despite the fact that they're likely just misunderstandings or mis-statements on his part.

Hell, from my understanding, all it takes for an opposing coach to be a liar is for that coach to make a statement or support something you disagree with.

That said, I wouldn't call him a liar over making a mis-statement about something where he was simply misinformed.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

I'm sure he was told exactly what to say. And while I think Kellenberger should have toned back his obvious frustration a bit, I do get why he is frustrated. Apparently, the CL made it clear to both schools that they would be asking the question at Media Days, and he was wanting something more than a regurgitation of Salter's statement. It's understandable why Kellenberger is frustrated, but the editor should have caught the tone and had him make some changes.

With that said, that doesn't change the fact that Mullen (and Salter) are just flat out wrong on the diversity talking point. I'm sure Dan doesn't know the enrollment numbers, nor would I expect him to. And if you read my posts, I'm not saying "Mullen is dumb for being wrong har har." It really falls back on Salter. But I'm pointing out that the information is incorrect, because it is. Period.

Well tar and feather his ***! Is that better?

Have a cookie.

 

[Ishmael]

Cool. That's not the definition of diversity. Good try, though. His statement is false. Period.

The definition of diversity is not limited to race, either. He could have been including race, sex, age, parents' income, states students are from, and any number of other factors when saying MSU is the most diverse school. You've limited the definition to "school with lowest percentage of white students" which isn't what was said.

 

[StoneColdSaidSo.sixpack]

When speaking about diversity in regards to the flag discussion, just go ahead and assume that he was using diversity as a reference to the African American population. It's a more soundbyte/stage friendly way of saying we have a lot of black students. I don't think the confederate flag means the same thing to Latinos or Asian Americans as it does to African Americans. Not that the former 2 haven't had their share of difficulties. But the flag issue is positively cut and dry, pardon the expression but it is a black and white issue. I do, however, wish Dan hadn't danced around the question.