John Paul Stevens: Repeal the Second Amendment

moe

Junior
May 29, 2001
32,848
279
83
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/opinion/john-paul-stevens-repeal-second-amendment.html

Rarely in my lifetime have I seen the type of civic engagement schoolchildren and their supporters demonstrated in Washington and other major cities throughout the country this past Saturday. These demonstrations demand our respect. They reveal the broad public support for legislation to minimize the risk of mass killings of schoolchildren and others in our society.


That support is a clear sign to lawmakers to enact legislation prohibiting civilian ownership of semiautomatic weapons, increasing the minimum age to buy a gun from 18 to 21 years old, and establishing more comprehensive background checks on all purchasers of firearms. But the demonstrators should seek more effective and more lasting reform. They should demand a repeal of the Second Amendment.

Concern that a national standing army might pose a threat to the security of the separate states led to the adoption of that amendment, which provides that “a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” Today that concern is a relic of the 18th century.

For over 200 years after the adoption of the Second Amendment, it was uniformly understood as not placing any limit on either federal or state authority to enact gun control legislation. In 1939 the Supreme Court unanimously held that Congress could prohibit the possession of a sawed-off shotgun because that weapon had no reasonable relation to the preservation or efficiency of a “well regulated militia.”

During the years when Warren Burger was our chief justice, from 1969 to 1986, no judge, federal or state, as far as I am aware, expressed any doubt as to the limited coverage of that amendment. When organizations like the National Rifle Association disagreed with that position and began their campaign claiming that federal regulation of firearms curtailed Second Amendment rights, Chief Justice Burger publicly characterized the N.R.A. as perpetrating “one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime.”

In 2008, the Supreme Court overturned Chief Justice Burger’s and others’ long-settled understanding of the Second Amendment’s limited reach by ruling, in District of Columbia v. Heller, that there was an individual right to bear arms. I was among the four dissenters.


That decision — which I remain convinced was wrong and certainly was debatable — has provided the N.R.A. with a propaganda weapon of immense power. Overturning that decision via a constitutional amendment to get rid of the Second Amendment would be simple and would do more to weaken the N.R.A.’s ability to stymie legislative debate and block constructive gun control legislation than any other available option.

That simple but dramatic action would move Saturday’s marchers closer to their objective than any other possible reform. It would eliminate the only legal rule that protects sellers of firearms in the United States — unlike every other market in the world. It would make our schoolchildren safer than they have been since 2008 and honor the memories of the many, indeed far too many, victims of recent gun violence.
 

Brushy Bill

Hall of Famer
Mar 31, 2009
61,050
128,617
113
If you think you have the votes.

 

DvlDog4WVU

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2008
47,209
3,292
113
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/opinion/john-paul-stevens-repeal-second-amendment.html

Rarely in my lifetime have I seen the type of civic engagement schoolchildren and their supporters demonstrated in Washington and other major cities throughout the country this past Saturday. These demonstrations demand our respect. They reveal the broad public support for legislation to minimize the risk of mass killings of schoolchildren and others in our society.


That support is a clear sign to lawmakers to enact legislation prohibiting civilian ownership of semiautomatic weapons, increasing the minimum age to buy a gun from 18 to 21 years old, and establishing more comprehensive background checks on all purchasers of firearms. But the demonstrators should seek more effective and more lasting reform. They should demand a repeal of the Second Amendment.

Concern that a national standing army might pose a threat to the security of the separate states led to the adoption of that amendment, which provides that “a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” Today that concern is a relic of the 18th century.

For over 200 years after the adoption of the Second Amendment, it was uniformly understood as not placing any limit on either federal or state authority to enact gun control legislation. In 1939 the Supreme Court unanimously held that Congress could prohibit the possession of a sawed-off shotgun because that weapon had no reasonable relation to the preservation or efficiency of a “well regulated militia.”

During the years when Warren Burger was our chief justice, from 1969 to 1986, no judge, federal or state, as far as I am aware, expressed any doubt as to the limited coverage of that amendment. When organizations like the National Rifle Association disagreed with that position and began their campaign claiming that federal regulation of firearms curtailed Second Amendment rights, Chief Justice Burger publicly characterized the N.R.A. as perpetrating “one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime.”

In 2008, the Supreme Court overturned Chief Justice Burger’s and others’ long-settled understanding of the Second Amendment’s limited reach by ruling, in District of Columbia v. Heller, that there was an individual right to bear arms. I was among the four dissenters.


That decision — which I remain convinced was wrong and certainly was debatable — has provided the N.R.A. with a propaganda weapon of immense power. Overturning that decision via a constitutional amendment to get rid of the Second Amendment would be simple and would do more to weaken the N.R.A.’s ability to stymie legislative debate and block constructive gun control legislation than any other available option.

That simple but dramatic action would move Saturday’s marchers closer to their objective than any other possible reform. It would eliminate the only legal rule that protects sellers of firearms in the United States — unlike every other market in the world. It would make our schoolchildren safer than they have been since 2008 and honor the memories of the many, indeed far too many, victims of recent gun violence.
Kind of blows a hole in the left’s narrative on what their intentions “aren’t”.
 
Sep 6, 2013
27,594
120
0
Kind of blows a hole in the left’s narrative on what their intentions “aren’t”.


JPS states what, in his opinion, they should be targeting. He actually confirms their position of not attempting to eliminate the 2nd altogether. They (the marchers last weekend) specifically stated their goals were stricter background checks, elimination of bump stocks, raising the purchase age from 18 to 21, eliminating gun show loopholes and banning ARs.

JPS is a great legal mind on this matter and I certainly wouldn’t debate him on this issue. He has confirmed what many on this board have said - the 2nd has limitations such as sawed-off shotguns, etc. But, I disagree with him on elimination of the 2nd.
 

Airport

All-American
Dec 12, 2001
86,253
6,950
113
JPS states what, in his opinion, they should be targeting. He actually confirms their position of not attempting to eliminate the 2nd altogether. They (the marchers last weekend) specifically stated their goals were stricter background checks, elimination of bump stocks, raising the purchase age from 18 to 21, eliminating gun show loopholes and banning ARs.

JPS is a great legal mind on this matter and I certainly wouldn’t debate him on this issue. He has confirmed what many on this board have said - the 2nd has limitations such as sawed-off shotguns, etc. But, I disagree with him on elimination of the 2nd.
You do realize that if the age had been 21, only one mass shooting would have been affected out of the last 30?
 

Airport

All-American
Dec 12, 2001
86,253
6,950
113
And your point is?
Pretty obvious isn't it? You are educated, means it wouldn't have made much of a difference. I beleive in doing things that make sense, hardening the targets, arming some teachers, background checks and police being allowed to do their jobs without some nancy liberal claiming that mentally deficient people can't be interviewed and detained.
 
Aug 27, 2001
63,466
198
0
Oh he's part of that group and don't kid yourself that isn't the goal.

It can't happen......there are two ways to repeal an amendment. Neither one can happen with the political make-up of the US. It would take 2/3 of the states or 2/3 of congress. I can't see the left gaining either in my lifetime
 

DvlDog4WVU

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2008
47,209
3,292
113
JPS states what, in his opinion, they should be targeting. He actually confirms their position of not attempting to eliminate the 2nd altogether. They (the marchers last weekend) specifically stated their goals were stricter background checks, elimination of bump stocks, raising the purchase age from 18 to 21, eliminating gun show loopholes and banning ARs.

JPS is a great legal mind on this matter and I certainly wouldn’t debate him on this issue. He has confirmed what many on this board have said - the 2nd has limitations such as sawed-off shotguns, etc. But, I disagree with him on elimination of the 2nd.
And I disagree that banning ARs will have a measurable impact, ya know, cuz we already tried it once for 10 years and it didn’t work. Moreover, when it doesn’t, what’s next? Not like the VT shooter would’ve minded. Columbine happened during the AWB period as well.

That gun show loophole is another catchy buzz phrase. That also eliminates my ability to sale a gun to a friend or give one to my nephew or receive them by bequeathing them.

Background checks...ok. Another Govt entity that doesn’t do its job. I’ll agree to this one when the left allows voter ID laws.

Bump stocks and mag limits, no issue. Might have an impact. Go for it.

Age limits: hahaha ok.
 

DvlDog4WVU

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2008
47,209
3,292
113
It can't happen......there are two ways to repeal an amendment. Neither one can happen with the political make-up of the US. It would take 2/3 of the states or 2/3 of congress. I can't see the left gaining either in my lifetime
Doesn’t matter, if that’s their ultimate goal there is nothing incentivizing the right to seek common ground here.
 
Aug 27, 2001
63,466
198
0
And I disagree that banning ARs will have a measurable impact, ya know, cuz we already tried it once for 10 years and it didn’t work. Moreover, when it doesn’t, what’s next? Not like the VT shooter would’ve minded. Columbine happened during the AWB period as well.

That gun show loophole is another catchy buzz phrase. That also eliminates my ability to sale a gun to a friend or give one to my nephew or receive them by bequeathing them.

Background checks...ok. Another Govt entity that doesn’t do its job. I’ll agree to this one when the left allows voter ID laws.

Bump stocks and mag limits, no issue. Might have an impact. Go for it.

Age limits: hahaha ok.

Explain your thoughts on the gun show loophole.
 

rog1187

All-American
May 29, 2001
70,022
5,609
113
A gun doesn’t become dangerous until a person pulls the trigger...much like a fetus isn’t a human unil it can survive on its own...right Libtards?
 

MountaineerWV

Sophomore
Sep 18, 2007
26,324
191
0
It can't happen......there are two ways to repeal an amendment. Neither one can happen with the political make-up of the US. It would take 2/3 of the states or 2/3 of congress. I can't see the left gaining either in my lifetime

It would take 3/4 of the states........that means 38 out of 50 states for an Amendment to be passed or taken out.......
 

MountaineerWV

Sophomore
Sep 18, 2007
26,324
191
0
A gun doesn’t become dangerous until a person pulls the trigger...much like a fetus isn’t a human unil it can survive on its own...right Libtards?

Drugs don't become lethal or addictive until someone injects them in their bodies........so let's make all drugs legal..........
 
Jan 4, 2003
44,727
517
103
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/opinion/john-paul-stevens-repeal-second-amendment.html

Rarely in my lifetime have I seen the type of civic engagement schoolchildren and their supporters demonstrated in Washington and other major cities throughout the country this past Saturday. These demonstrations demand our respect. They reveal the broad public support for legislation to minimize the risk of mass killings of schoolchildren and others in our society.


That support is a clear sign to lawmakers to enact legislation prohibiting civilian ownership of semiautomatic weapons, increasing the minimum age to buy a gun from 18 to 21 years old, and establishing more comprehensive background checks on all purchasers of firearms. But the demonstrators should seek more effective and more lasting reform. They should demand a repeal of the Second Amendment.

Concern that a national standing army might pose a threat to the security of the separate states led to the adoption of that amendment, which provides that “a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” Today that concern is a relic of the 18th century.

For over 200 years after the adoption of the Second Amendment, it was uniformly understood as not placing any limit on either federal or state authority to enact gun control legislation. In 1939 the Supreme Court unanimously held that Congress could prohibit the possession of a sawed-off shotgun because that weapon had no reasonable relation to the preservation or efficiency of a “well regulated militia.”

During the years when Warren Burger was our chief justice, from 1969 to 1986, no judge, federal or state, as far as I am aware, expressed any doubt as to the limited coverage of that amendment. When organizations like the National Rifle Association disagreed with that position and began their campaign claiming that federal regulation of firearms curtailed Second Amendment rights, Chief Justice Burger publicly characterized the N.R.A. as perpetrating “one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime.”

In 2008, the Supreme Court overturned Chief Justice Burger’s and others’ long-settled understanding of the Second Amendment’s limited reach by ruling, in District of Columbia v. Heller, that there was an individual right to bear arms. I was among the four dissenters.


That decision — which I remain convinced was wrong and certainly was debatable — has provided the N.R.A. with a propaganda weapon of immense power. Overturning that decision via a constitutional amendment to get rid of the Second Amendment would be simple and would do more to weaken the N.R.A.’s ability to stymie legislative debate and block constructive gun control legislation than any other available option.

That simple but dramatic action would move Saturday’s marchers closer to their objective than any other possible reform. It would eliminate the only legal rule that protects sellers of firearms in the United States — unlike every other market in the world. It would make our schoolchildren safer than they have been since 2008 and honor the memories of the many, indeed far too many, victims of recent gun violence.
John Paul Jones..."Don't give up the ship....or the guns on it"
 

DvlDog4WVU

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2008
47,209
3,292
113
Explain your thoughts on the gun show loophole.
I thought I did already. The “gun show” loophole is the buzz phrase which would inhibit your ability to sell or trade your firearms on an individual level.

This would include stopping your ability to sell/trade to family members, having firearms bequeathed to you (assuming they would then become illegal firearms that you turn in or destroy) in a will, and your ability to purchase used firearms. The latter happens quite often actually. Half of the stuff I own has been purchased on an individual level off of crackheads needing some cash. Get a great deal that way.