John Calipari is 330-77 at UK

baboo

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I think Coach Cal will, at the very least, go down as the 2nd-best coach on UK history. Awesome guy, awesome coach.

That said, if the one-championship-only thing looms as a negative (and that seems unfair), it may be because he's in competition with coaches who have more. Coach K has two championships in 10 seasons. Williams has two in 11 seasons and three in 15. Wright has two in the last 4 seasons. (Obviously, I'm not counting 2020 since no one had a chance to win.) When there are multiple current coaches with multiple championships in a similar time period, it becomes easy to question whether he's doing as well as he could. Again, I think that's an unfair standard, but I see why the criticisms might seem reasonable.
 

DraftCat

Heisman
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Nov 5, 2011
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Seems to be working pretty well. Rated best college basketball program the last 10 years. Sorry if facts get in the way of your agenda.

I don't have an agenda... I think it would be pretty accurate if you polled not only UK fans but our rivals they would believe UK should have had at least 2 titles in 10 years.

Final 4's are awesome but at Kentucky we bring up our 8 championships not our runner up accomplishments... as great as they are.
 

kl40504_rivals

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Oct 5, 2018
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I don't have an agenda... I think it would be pretty accurate if you polled not only UK fans but our rivals they would believe UK should have had at least 2 titles in 10 years.

Final 4's are awesome but at Kentucky we bring up our 8 championships not our runner up accomplishments... as great as they are.
You probably loved the program when Billy G was the coach. Titles are not easy to come by. Dean Smith was at UNC 36 years and only won two titles. Cal has UK in the hunt every year. Name me one more coach at UK except Rupp which was a different era that has done as well. If you base how good a program is just based on titles you have very little understanding of college basketball.
 

kybassfan

Heisman
Jul 1, 2005
20,032
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I don't have an agenda... I think it would be pretty accurate if you polled not only UK fans but our rivals they would believe UK should have had at least 2 titles in 10 years.

Final 4's are awesome but at Kentucky we bring up our 8 championships not our runner up accomplishments... as great as they are.

Kentucky fans or not, I don’t know a single knowledgeable person with a basketball history that thinks we definitely should have won another. I know dozens of such people that think we’ve overachieved due to extreme youth. I think perhaps you have some novices that think basketball is spelled ESPN let talking boneheads tell them what to think. That’s a case of stupid is as stupid does.

Just stop letting talking heads and idiots tell you what to think.
 

DraftCat

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@kl40504 & @kybassfan Both of you have jaded point of views honestly in my opinion.

I think we should have at least two championships in 10 years. I bet if you polled this board I think you'd find that most fans agree with me.

You can look to Rick Pitino as a similar example. Although he technically recruited 2 Championship teams. I give Tubby less credit considering how his tenure went.

Thanks for coming to my Cat talk.
 

kl40504_rivals

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Oct 5, 2018
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@kl40504 & @kybassfan Both of you have jaded point of views honestly in my opinion.

I think we should have at least two championships in 10 years. I bet if you polled this board I think you'd find that most fans agree with me.

You can look to Rick Pitino as a similar example. Although he technically recruited 2 Championship teams. I give Tubby less credit considering how his tenure went.

Thanks for coming to my Cat talk.
Of course we could have had as many as three more but it is fans like you that don't appreciate what Cal has done to get us in position to win more titles. We have been very close several times. How many other schools can say that,? Certainly not IU. You should appreciate what we have accomplished and not what we have not. We all would like more titles but we also could be stuck with a coach that just wins enough not to get fired but never in the running for a title. Like IU and Louisville.
 
May 27, 2007
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It's a one and done tournament. The best team doesn't always win.

The notion that we should have another one just isn't accurate. We could have had another one or maybe two. But should?

Honestly outside of 2012 and 2015, we didn't even have the best team IMO. You could argue 2010. Let's say those three. I don't think you could even put another in that conversation.

Usually the team with the best odds are only given like a 30-35% chance of winning the entire thing.

We won 1 in 3 where we were arguably the best team.

It seems perfectly reasonable to me that we won exactly how many we should have won.
 
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kybassfan

Heisman
Jul 1, 2005
20,032
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@kl40504 & @kybassfan Both of you have jaded point of views honestly in my opinion.

I think we should have at least two championships in 10 years. I bet if you polled this board I think you'd find that most fans agree with me.

You can look to Rick Pitino as a similar example. Although he technically recruited 2 Championship teams. I give Tubby less credit considering how his tenure went.

Thanks for coming to my Cat talk.

58 - 78, 78 - 96.... I want a million dollars a year for ten years. My expectations are far more reasonable than yours. Two in ten years is completely out of touch with reality and our history. Technically Pitino has one. Technically Tubby has one. Simple facts beyond question. What you think and what is reasonable based on actual data are obviously two different things.

I stand by what I said, nobody that is knowledgeable expected more due to our youth. The expectations of the ignorant and fanciful are of no importance.
 

DraftCat

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58 - 78, 78 - 96.... I want a million dollars a year for ten years. My expectations are far more reasonable than yours. Two in ten years is completely out of touch with reality and our history. Technically Pitino has one. Technically Tubby has one. Simple facts beyond question. What you think and what is reasonable based on actual data are obviously two different things.

I stand by what I said, nobody that is knowledgeable expected more due to our youth. The expectations of the ignorant and fanciful are of no importance.

Okie Dokie.
 

morgousky

Heisman
Sep 5, 2009
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It's a one and done tournament. The best team doesn't always win.

The notion that we should have another one just isn't accurate. We could have had another one or maybe two. But should?

Honestly outside of 2012 and 2015, we didn't even have the best team IMO. You could argue 2010. Let's say those three. I don't think you could even put another in that conversation.

Usually the team with the best odds are only given like a 30-35% chance of winning the entire thing.

We won 1 in 3 where we were arguably the best team.

It seems perfectly reasonable to me that we won exactly how many we should have won.

I learned in elementary statistics that a one elimination tournament is not a good sample to judge the best team. The season is more statistically accurate to measure that.

Is this right?
 

morgousky

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Sep 5, 2009
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You probably loved the program when Billy G was the coach. Titles are not easy to come by. Dean Smith was at UNC 36 years and only won two titles. Cal has UK in the hunt every year. Name me one more coach at UK except Rupp which was a different era that has done as well. If you base how good a program is just based on titles you have very little understanding of college basketball.
I know it’s said a good bit about Dean Smith, but people need to continue the thought. He’s considered the most overrated coach of all time outside of Unc fans. His reputation is that of the biggest choker of all time.

I don’t want Cal with that sort of rep when he finishes. I say this a lot because it’s true, history is not written by fans, it’s written by the opposition and neutrals. Cal definitely needs a second ring.
 
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specialkd24_rivals116121

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Had we won in 2015, he would be get more national respect than he does. It sucks we didn't, but it didn't work out unfortunately. It's random. But he always gives us a chance ... nobody has more NCAA Tournament wins than him in the past 11 years. You know how you win the NCAA Tournament? Win games.

He's outdone Coach K in every category the last 11 years ... except titles (and the 2 Coach K won should have been ours). Think how the narrative changes had we won in 2010 and 2015. It would be 1. Wooden and 2. Calipari.
 
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May 27, 2007
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I learned in elementary statistics that a one elimination tournament is not a good sample to judge the best team. The season is more statistically accurate to measure that.

Is this right?

Yes 100%.

That's why European football leagues have no playoffs at all. They play everyone once home and once away and whoever has the most points is crowned champion.

Then again I guess the question becomes do we really want the best team to win every single year.
 
May 27, 2007
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Had we won in 2015, he would be get more national respect than he does. It sucks we didn't, but it didn't work out unfortunately. It's random. But he always gives us a chance ... nobody has more NCAA Tournament wins than him in the past 11 years. You know how you win the NCAA Tournament? Win games.

He's outdone Coach K in every category the last 11 years ... except titles (and the 2 Coach K won should have been ours). Think how the narrative changes had we won in 2010 and 2015. It would be 1. Wooden and 2. Calipari.

Right. This has been my viewpoint the entire tenure. If the best team doesn't always win in a one and done tournament, you have to just put yourself in the conversation year in and year out. And I think that's exactly what Cal has done the majority of his time at UK.

I have no idea if Cal is going to win another title while at UK. But if he keeps us in the mix every year, he's going to have quite a number of shots at it before his time is up here.
 

DraftCat

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I just want to point out before I bow out of this thread that I do not think Calipari is a failure. I completely recognize the one & done aspect of the tournament and the randomness of it all.

What he has done is clearly remarkable. All I'm trying to say is when we hired Cal and his 1st year results... at this point I would of thought we should of had 2 at least. This was supposed to be the perfect marriage. But like most marriages we have had a few bumps.

I hope the best is yet to come.
 

morgousky

Heisman
Sep 5, 2009
23,959
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Yes 100%.

That's why European football leagues have no playoffs at all. They play everyone once home and once away and whoever has the most points is crowned champion.

Then again I guess the question becomes do we really want the best team to win every single year.

Ok so having said that, f statistics.

The thing is real men show up and get it done when the ***** on the line. One game elimination separates men from women. Win or die.
 

kl40504_rivals

Heisman
Oct 5, 2018
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I know it’s said a good bit about Dean Smith, but people need to continue the thought. He’s considered the most overrated coach of all time outside of Unc fans. His reputation is that of the biggest choker of all time.
And you need a ring in the nose.

I don’t want Cal with that sort of rep when he finishes. I say this a lot because it’s true, history is not written by fans, it’s written by the opposition and neutrals. Cal definitely needs a second ring.
 
Jul 26, 2003
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Can't see anyone that could have gotten us back where we belong quicker than Cal did. He came out of the gate fast. If you look at his numbers there is a good chance nobody else could have matched it. Because of his recruiting and his confidence level in communications, whether it be with recruits and their families or the press, he was a good match for us.

For those reasons I would never say he was anywhere close to a failure. Other than winning another championship, he has done as good as anyone could have IMO. We know that most of the time, winning the championship has several variables that has to fall into place. Talent, experience, where you are placed in the bracket, who the refs are, a little luck along the way, best game plan, etc. I think the refs have been the reason we didn't make it two of the years. I think a couple of years you could question why Cal did or didn't do something from the coaching part.

When you look at the overall picture of Cal's ten years the reverence he has brought back to the program could not have come at a better time for our lifetime. Being half as good as we should have been during the Smith years, another wrong hire for that long a period of time could have really diminished our history's success not only from a numbers standpoint but also from the perspective eye of all basketball fans. It has kept the aura of the program where it belongs in our minds.

Nothing wrong discussing all the good that Cal has done, how successful he has been and how appreciative we should be for all of that. Because we should be. There is also nothing wrong with discussing our opinions on what we think Cal should or shouldn't do. Has nothing to do with our like or dislike of Cal. Just fans throwing out thoughts on what we think might make things just a little bit better of reaching another goal. To me it would be a little boring if I got on here with just a bunch of cheerleaders that only looks at things from one perspective. They know, they are right, they are smarter in basketball thinking and anyone else that doesn't have that same opinion is an idiot when it comes to basketball.

While Cal was the right hire for us at the right time and while Cal has more than likely done as good or better than anyone else could have possibly done, he is human just like everyone else. He is not going to always make right decisions 100% of the time, just like all of us. He is not going to do everything every fan wants. Because fans have different perspectives on different things. We understand that. He can't please everyone. Wondering why Cal does or doesn't do something on a board like this makes for good discussion. Has nothing to do with disrespecting the man.

We need another championship or two under Cal because his recruiting gives us that great opportunity. The next hire may not have the ability to do that and he would have to be a super floor coach to achieve a championship if that is the case. The roster this year seems to cover all positions well in terms of talent and experience. Most of these guys play hard all the time. And that is a big thing if you have a roster full of that. The depth will be there. Not having to rely so much on a couple of super freshmen, I like the makeup of this team. A variety of talented freshmen with a very experienced and talented big inside and a very experienced and talented guard outside, it seems to set up as good as it could be roster wise to get that championship.
 

baboo

Freshman
Jul 11, 2001
225
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I learned in elementary statistics that a one elimination tournament is not a good sample to judge the best team. The season is more statistically accurate to measure that.

Is this right?

No, that's not quite right. First, it's a six-win tournament to get the championship. You've got to be a pretty good team to win it.

Second, with 350+ teams, it's not practical to play every team. The tournament allows the best teams to play each other. No one escapes that requirement.

Third, how a team performs under pressure matters. The tournament tests that better than anything.

The reality is that for the last 18 championships (Pomeroy era), the national champion has been rated the best (based on the entire season) 10 times. That's better than even odds that the best team wins, even if "best" is defined by the entire season.
 
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Jul 26, 2003
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I think Coach Cal will, at the very least, go down as the 2nd-best coach on UK history. Awesome guy, awesome coach.

That said, if the one-championship-only thing looms as a negative (and that seems unfair), it may be because he's in competition with coaches who have more. Coach K has two championships in 10 seasons. Williams has two in 11 seasons and three in 15. Wright has two in the last 4 seasons. (Obviously, I'm not counting 2020 since no one had a chance to win.) When there are multiple current coaches with multiple championships in a similar time period, it becomes easy to question whether he's doing as well as he could. Again, I think that's an unfair standard, but I see why the criticisms might seem reasonable.
I just want to point out before I bow out of this thread that I do not think Calipari is a failure. I completely recognize the one & done aspect of the tournament and the randomness of it all.

What he has done is clearly remarkable. All I'm trying to say is when we hired Cal and his 1st year results... at this point I would of thought we should of had 2 at least. This was supposed to be the perfect marriage. But like most marriages we have had a few bumps.

I hope the best is yet to come.
Think you are right in that the majority of fans know basketball enough to see how well he has done. Looking in from the other side and not thinking Cal is a god coach that can't get better at something is also a mature attitude. The couple of things we think might help us get over the hump for another championship may or may not help. Such as slightly tweaking the experience thing or bringing more heat on the defensive end because we normally have a lot of athletic and quick type players and normally have the quality depth advantage over most teams we play. So bring that defensive heat and wear them down early because their bench players won't be as good as ours.

Maybe things like that would benefit or maybe it won't. What is wrong with discussing it and wondering what if he does those things? We recognize we will never know because Cal is not the type to change much in the way of doing anything. I am glad he has started to use the transfer system more. That is a move to help on the experience part.
 

baboo

Freshman
Jul 11, 2001
225
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So bring that defensive heat and wear them down early because their bench players won't be as good as ours.

Maybe things like that would benefit or maybe it won't. What is wrong with discussing it and wondering what if he does those things? We recognize we will never know because Cal is not the type to change much in the way of doing anything. I am glad he has started to use the transfer system more. That is a move to help on the experience part.

Yes, discussing what Coach Cal could do better seems reasonable and necessary. I'd like to put in my 2 cents with regard to how to win championships.

It generally believed that "defense wins championships," but that's completely wrong. Almost all champions are ranked in the top10 in offensive efficiency. On top of that, teams ranked in the top 3 are almost magical. A top-3 offensive team has never lost a Final Four game to a team outside the top 3 in the Pomeroy era. (Note: Look no further than this stat for why UK lost to Wisconsin in 2015.)

So to win more championships, Coach Cal needs to beef up his offense, which has only been top 3 once (in 2012, of course!). This is hard with OAD players, because high efficiency offensive play requires a lot of skill development, which usually requires multiple years to develop.

Here are three strategies he could use to improve UK's offensive efficiency. 1) Recruit a better mix of OAD and multi-year players. 2) Sign some transfers. 3) Focus on OAD players with great 3-pt shooting.

That's just my take.
 
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