Disagree. You can be worried about false allegations without minimizing actual victims. Some men go to great lengths not to be alone with women so they can't be falsely charged. That is not an unwise thing to do. And for people that are falsely accused, their lives can be ruined. You don't have to get into a debate about which experience is worse. It's not a contest. Both situations are bad and talking about either does not diminish the other.
Izzo to resign
- Thread starter Calsthebomb
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Disagree. You can be worried about false allegations without minimizing actual victims. Some men go to great lengths not to be alone with women so they can't be falsely charged. That is not an unwise thing to do. And for people that are falsely accused, their lives can be ruined. You don't have to get into a debate about which experience is worse. It's not a contest. Both situations are bad and talking about either does not diminish the other.
Actually it is fairly common, sad to say.
What makes it so much worse is that so many women ARE assaulted, but because of those few who make it up, and because there has been a tendency to try to cover up, especially when athletes or celebrities are involved, it makes it incredibly difficult for true victims to come forward.
It infuriates me that it has become the “thing,” now in Hollywood. Not because it’s finally shedding light on an evil, but because you’re going to see many come forward making claims that just aren’t true just so they can get what they can out of it.
Being a survivor myself, my heart goes out to the real victims.
It would be nice if you got your facts correct before you post this fake news. You must be a democrat.
To be fair, that tweet to which he refers was reported all over the sports media.
Politics has nothing to do with it
You missed the point entirely. The point is that rape is the only crime where men bring up false accusations as soon as any discussion of the crime happens, I've literally never heard of another scenario where idea is brought up. Yet, the rate of false accusations for rape is similar to other types crime.
So yes, if you look at the full context, then bringing up false allegations (when there are no more false rape allegations than other types of crime) is an attempt to minimize the crimes and related victims.
If this were a thread about murder victims I'd be shocked if anyone said, "well it's easy to accuse someone of murder" or something to that effect. Not to mention that this case has nothing to do with false allegations and everything to do with actual crimes against children. So yeah, bringing up false allegations solely serves to minimize the crime and victims to prop up a mysoginistic world view.
You are drawing conclusions about peoples' motives without facts. There is a perfectly valid reason to discuss false allegations in this environment, because as good as it is that many people are being held accountable for their behavior, including losing their jobs, it is also true that we are in danger of creating an environment where mere allegation is sufficient to make someone lose their job. In some cases, where the person does not refute the charge or put up any defense, that may be ok, but due process is still important. The Duke soccer team is proof of that.
Obviously, rape and sexual assault is FAR more common than false allegations, but that doesn't mean that every charge has to be accepted at face value and people should be assumed guilty and lose their jobs without proof.
I don’t believe @morgousky , myself or anyone was “focusing on the few false reports”
When you say things like that , off handed and incorrectly it makes intelligent people question your actual motives. It seems as if your lumping anyone who said anything remotely negative about false accusations , in the “they don’t care about rape and they’re just gonna being up the rouge false reports so as not to try and tackle the issue at hand”
Pretty sure unless you’re an evil dumba$$, everyone knows rape is disgusting, wrong and downright sinister. No questions asked. Offenders should be castrated imo.
Intelligence or not, he was just making a point. If you perhaps read his handful of other posts, or mine (honestly not being combative ... maybe you skimmed over the others ?) you’d see that in no way is anyone “focusing on the false reports” in a way to discredit the evilness of rape, harassment etc.
He stated it as if it was a fact. It doesn't matter if someone else reported it. That doesn't make it a fact. That is the problem we have with the media now. All they have to say is that they have a source and they report things as if they are fact.
My post from prior discussion; but I want to say again the following. This is what shows me that Izzo should go ahead and call it quits. If he doesn't, he should be fired. -----
Payne stopped when it was apparent that the girl was not willing. True. But, Paynes statement to police:
He told investigators that when it was clear from the victim's statements that she did not want to have sex, he stopped. However, the other player continued "despite her reluctance and statements that she did not want to continue."
Here we have it. Payne, in the room and witnessing a rape by his own words. Testimony to police.
As I said, if I'm the coach, and I read this report of what my player said to police, both players are dismissed. Appling for sexual assault/rape, Payne for watching it and not stopping and/or reporting it. Basic.
If I'm the AD and I see this, I'm insisting that the coach dismiss both. If I'm the President and I see this, I'm insisting that the AD force the coach to dismiss both. If I'm anyone with morals, I'm insisting that both be dismissed. And if the coach decides not to dismiss both, well, he's gotta go. Easy to me.
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Again, I don't care at this point that the police never filed charges. I'm not talking about Nassar. I don't care that this was 8 years ago.
What I see here is a coach who decided to not do a damn thing when confronted with the FACT that two his players participated in the rape or sexual assault of a student in their dorm room. I say FACT because Payne admitted to investigators that it happened / what he talked to investigators about is a rape, plain and simple.
He saw it, didn't stop it, didn't report it. Izzo saw this testimony from Payne (don't tell me he didn't). He had the opportunity to, at minimum, punish these two players; he did not; unless you consider Paynes volunteer work with the young cancer patient a punishment.
This after the no punishment for his assistant coach punching a student in the face. Same coach followed that up with sexual assault. He "left" the program shortly after that. Izzo didn't fire him. If he did, he should have been proud; but he "let" that coach walk away quietly.
Look, say whatever you want, but Izzo is a phony; a liar; a complete bullshitter. He has to be let go asap. That's all.
Payne stopped when it was apparent that the girl was not willing. True. But, Paynes statement to police:
He told investigators that when it was clear from the victim's statements that she did not want to have sex, he stopped. However, the other player continued "despite her reluctance and statements that she did not want to continue."
Here we have it. Payne, in the room and witnessing a rape by his own words. Testimony to police.
As I said, if I'm the coach, and I read this report of what my player said to police, both players are dismissed. Appling for sexual assault/rape, Payne for watching it and not stopping and/or reporting it. Basic.
If I'm the AD and I see this, I'm insisting that the coach dismiss both. If I'm the President and I see this, I'm insisting that the AD force the coach to dismiss both. If I'm anyone with morals, I'm insisting that both be dismissed. And if the coach decides not to dismiss both, well, he's gotta go. Easy to me.
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Again, I don't care at this point that the police never filed charges. I'm not talking about Nassar. I don't care that this was 8 years ago.
What I see here is a coach who decided to not do a damn thing when confronted with the FACT that two his players participated in the rape or sexual assault of a student in their dorm room. I say FACT because Payne admitted to investigators that it happened / what he talked to investigators about is a rape, plain and simple.
He saw it, didn't stop it, didn't report it. Izzo saw this testimony from Payne (don't tell me he didn't). He had the opportunity to, at minimum, punish these two players; he did not; unless you consider Paynes volunteer work with the young cancer patient a punishment.
This after the no punishment for his assistant coach punching a student in the face. Same coach followed that up with sexual assault. He "left" the program shortly after that. Izzo didn't fire him. If he did, he should have been proud; but he "let" that coach walk away quietly.
Look, say whatever you want, but Izzo is a phony; a liar; a complete bullshitter. He has to be let go asap. That's all.
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Holy ****. I hadn’t seen that quote/ statement. That’s messed up.
Can you imagine just chillin with your buddy , having nasty *** sex with an unwilling participant ? Wtf man.
Izzo says nothing to see here. Police didn't charge, all good. Crazy huh?
I can't go back and see what he's upset about. I've got 60 responses and quotes too many to find it.
It is false that we have good data on any of this really. It depends on how you ask the questions. Women who lie about rape don't usually get charged, and never makes it to the public. When I taught school, there were false alligations yearly. The last year(before I changed careers), a girl was found to be lying about assault. Three boys were arrested and later apologized to, where the girl said they assaulted her was under surveillance. Turns out one of the boys embarrassed her sister from a prior relationship. True story.
There are many situations just like this. I guarantee you she's not part of a statistic anywhere.
In a country of 350 million, you can't just believe anyone making accusations. It must be investigated. It doesn't deter real rape victims, it actually gives them an easier path.
The data is only as good as the information it has to work with.
Imo if you lie about sexual assault and rape, you need to start facing charges. That would stop most of the nonsense.
I find it appalling that the men who scream the loudest about this, don't care that their immigration policies will make rape accusations increase, which is a fact if you look at country's who've been liberal with their immigration.
This is why I say that type only thinks the way they do to create victims for self gain. Why else would the promote policy that would actually be worse for women? Because in the end, it's all about victimizing our social fabric, creating dependence, and garnering more votes. I don't belief even a single one of them really care about the safety of women.