It Has Been Much Too Long

[kb22stang]

Kentucky won 4 titles in 10 years from 48-58.

Duke has won 3 titles in 17 years.

UNC just won their third in 12 years.

You can "expect" whatever you want. But t doesn't take a decade to win a title if you're a blue blood who's making the right moves.

What "moves" could Cal has possibly made that he didn't? He's recruited top talent and had us in a position to win it all in the majority of his seasons here.

And in direct response to your post:
The competition was junk during that 48-58 run and there wasn't a 64 team tournament. Completely invalid comparison.

Duke is the top program in college with the best coach, and they've only outperformed the 1 in 10 by 1 title in the last 20 years.

UNC has had a great run, and they have outperformed the 1 in 10.

So if you accept that Duke and UNC have outperformed the number does that mean its a valid expectation for UK or even valid for their fans to expect that? No. That doesn't change what is considered to be a realistic expectation.

Titles are won with a good deal of luck involved. With talent and good coaching you should be able to achieve final fours on a somewhat regular basis. That's why the measuring stick should always be Final Four not titles.

 

[Aike]

Our class next year won't stick around. They'll leave asap even if they shouldn't unless one of them is a Briscoe style who can't go then they'll leave after two.

My point about recruits is if we're gonna have freshman revolving doors, they've got to be superb. They can't be 2 year tweeners pretending to be OAD's. They need to be Davis, cousins, wall, Randle etc for us to have a chance. We're not gettin those right now. At this second cal is the second best recruiter in the game and I just don't think that's enough when you consider our system and the difficulties that surround us.

You wouldn't really argue Cal is out recruiting K right now would you? Interesting case

Based on what I just laid out, how can you argue that K is outrecruiting Cal?

Because Giles with 2 bad wheels was supposed to be the second coming? He wasn't. Bam was clearly better.

You prefer Jackson/Tatum to Fox/Monk? I sure don't. I also prefer our results.

I wish we could have gotten Ingram. But we got Murray, and beat them head to head.

I don't think K is outrecrutiing Cal, no. But I think they are getting some guys we'd like to have.

If you want to call it a wash, I can live with that. But the best class K brought in wasn't even as good as our class that year, even though they did get the hardware.

 

[Aike]

Aike I finally throw some statatistics together and you go and tell me it's just twisted numbers. This is why I hate math and sports.

:smiley:. Your numbers are valid. But you can just as easily use different numbers to tell a different story.

I just don't think the sky is falling. Final Four this year would have been nice. If we go through the next 2 years without one, I'll start to get a little testy.

But like I said, Self has missed it 5 straight. Roy just finished a streak of 6 straight. K missed 4 straight, and 5 straight before that.

I wish we were head and shoulders above Duke, UNC, and KU. Unfortunately, I think that on par,while being slightly ahead some years and slightly behind in others is more realistic.

 

[John Henry]

And dumb enough. Any moron who says you should be able to expect to win a title every 5 years is simply not an intelligent poster. One title every 10 years and one final four every 3-4 years. That is a historically achievable goal.

Where did I say I expect anything? All I said was it seems like an eternity. I don't expect it. I am old enough to have remembered all 8 of our NCAA Championships. All of them. We once went 20 years without one (58-78) and it was a long time to wait. But we did win another one.

My point was when teams that you don't particularly care for such as UNC, UL, Duke or UConn win then having to wait for another one seems like a long, long, long time such as in eternity. That is all I was saying. I will overlook your comment about a moron and your "not intelligent poster" comment. I forgive you because you know not what you are saying. You can't help it.

 

[John Henry]

You should see what other teams have to endure. When was the last time Vandy won one?

Vandy? You are comparing the University of Kentucky basketball program to Vanderbilt? I hope there aren't many UK fans that feel the way you do. We will never win another title if Vandy is our standard.

 

[UKEE93]

Vandy? You are comparing the University of Kentucky basketball program to Vanderbilt? I hope there aren't many UK fans that feel the way you do. We will never win another title if Vandy is our standard.

How about IU(sedtobe) and UCLA?

Kansas is at 9 years and counting (although they do have their 13 BIG 12 titles to hold them over, lol)!

 

[Lovebaskelball]

Just keep having a top 5 program and everything is rosy for me.

 

[barryn2000]

We need to stick to one thing. First we have the talent but got screwed by the officiating. Now we don't have the talent to win it all. Which is it?

^^Thread winner

 

[Mr_GG]

Our class next year won't stick around. They'll leave asap even if they shouldn't unless one of them is a Briscoe style who can't go then they'll leave after two.

My point about recruits is if we're gonna have freshman revolving doors, they've got to be superb. They can't be 2 year tweeners pretending to be OAD's. They need to be Davis, cousins, wall, Randle etc for us to have a chance. We're not gettin those right now. At this second cal is the second best recruiter in the game and I just don't think that's enough when you consider our system and the difficulties that surround us.

You wouldn't really argue Cal is out recruiting K right now would you? Interesting case

I think Coach Cal is definitely out recruiting Coach K right now. I think its just that it used to be Cal and nobody else. Also, you can't just go by numbers in recruiting. Karl Anthony-Towns was ranked 10th according to ESPN and I think his highest rating was 6th. The 2014 class was considered to be one of our weakest at the time, and now you have Towns (considered to be the future of the NBA), Booker (talked about being the best 2 guard in the league) Ulis (5'9" point guard that was a candidate for player of the year and putting up great numbers against NBA guards now), and Trey Lyles (not doing much now, but definitely has a career in the NBA). Duke recruits always seem to get propped up when they go to Duke, and their NBA careers never match their expectations coming out of high school (with the exception of Kyrie Irving).

Also, you have some years where you don't have sure fire NBA stars in high school. We had Wall and Cousins Cal's first year, but they have been the best two players drafted at their position since 2010. Anthony Davis won every award possible in 2012, and is the only basketball player to ever do what he did as a freshman. We had a down year in recruiting in 2013 and Noel was the only top recruit we landed. The next year we followed up by getting the #1 PG, SG, PF, and #2 C and #2 SG. We almost got the #1 SF too, and had 4 of the top 10 players in what was considered to be a really strong recruiting class. I would put Monk and Fox as our best back court tandem we've had since Cal has been at UK (slightly above Wall and Bledsoe). Skal was the #2 rated recruit but was our first top recruit that majorly underperformed. Next year's recruiting class is considered to be a down year in recruiting overall.

Duke hasn't had one class that I would trade with them since Cal has been at UK (would only really even consider last year's, but most people forget that Kennard wasn't half the player as a freshman compared to this year). UK's recruiting class as it is today is much better for next year then Duke's, and there's no guarantee of Duke getting any of their remaining top targets. People put too much stock in numbers and should pay more attention to the fact that our recruits always seem to out perform other team's recruits, always seem to buy into Cal system's and play unselfishly (except for 2013), and always seem to find what Cal likes to call "a will to win". We've had a ton of recruits who proved to be fearless when the game was on the line and have come up big to hit tough game winners or shots when it mattered most. I trust Cal's evaluation of recruits more than Paul Biancardi (same guy who had Wall ranked 6th in his high school class) Evan Daniels, or anyone else based off our recruits past success.

Other top coaches are now embracing Cal's model, and have realized that his system gives you the best chance for success if you can get them all to buy in and develop them. The only problem is, other coaches have found out that it isn't as easy to do as what Cal makes it look like (Izzo, Coach K this year, Self). The biggest flaw with Cal's system right now is the fact that we really do need some of our good recruits returning every year to have a good chance to win (Jones and Lamb in 2012/ the twins and Cauley in 2015). Although that's the biggest flaw with Cal's system, it's also the reason why he is able to have the top class year in and year out. Cal is honest with his players, and advises them based off what he feels is in their best interest. If he feels that is to leave, he tells them. If he thinks its best for them to return, he will tell them. He also lets them make their own decision unlike some coaches (Roy/Coach K), and that has hurt UK a couple seasons because they chose to leave (Teague/Dakari).

P.S. CoachX on here had a post recently talking about how Coach K is getting hammered on the recruiting trail right now because of recruits being unhappy with things he promised and what he delivered. Coach K's recruiting got propped up once he took control of Team USA, and now that he is done coaching that, I believe we're about to see a decline in Duke recruiting.

 

[anon_013cn8yrfncx2]

2010 Elite 8
2011 Final 4
2012 Champions
2013 NIT
2014 Final 4 (Title game)
2015 Final 4
2016 2nd Rd
2017 Elite 8
_____________________
4 Final 4's, 1 last second shot and 1 horrific night from the field from 2 more Final 4's and 1 Championship in 8 freakin' years and you "experts" act like it's been a disaster. Good Lord you people are ungrateful.

Goes both ways. In 2014 and 2015 we could have also lost in the elite 8 in the final seconds and almost did.

 

[Lovebaskelball]

Goes both ways. In 2014 and 2015 we could have also lost in the elite 8 in the final seconds and almost did.

And that shows the randomness of the tournament. You can catch lightning in a bottle and win the whole thing or flame out in the early rounds.

 

[Kfckernel]

I agree Mr. GG. Now that Cal has the Team USA advantage, we should start seeing it pay off in the years to come.

Our regular season seems to always go very well until we get into the tournament and get these unexplained parings between undefeated teams, all star brackets or biased officials. We need better transparency for the tournament if that is going to define the entire season.

 

[uky8unc5]

5 years seems like an eternity in college basketball. Especially when teams you despise are winning titles.

You grumble if we don't win one title every 5 years, which would be 20% of the time. Say what????

 

[CatFanInTheBathtub]

Our class next year won't stick around. They'll leave asap even if they shouldn't unless one of them is a Briscoe style who can't go then they'll leave after two.

My point about recruits is if we're gonna have freshman revolving doors, they've got to be superb. They can't be 2 year tweeners pretending to be OAD's. They need to be Davis, cousins, wall, Randle etc for us to have a chance. We're not gettin those right now. At this second cal is the second best recruiter in the game and I just don't think that's enough when you consider our system and the difficulties that surround us.

You wouldn't really argue Cal is out recruiting K right now would you? Interesting case

Cal can only recruit who's available. He can't pull an AD out of his *** if there isn't one available. Zaytoven used the word "transcendent". How many transcendent players have there been since 2012 that we didn't get?

 

[coolioo1]

5 years seems like an eternity in college basketball. Especially when teams you despise are winning titles.

UK has had a lot worse droughts than this!!!! Reason why no team really has more than 10 total titles (besides the UCLA bs years)

 

[barryn2000]

At this point i don't care anymore. Everyone is coming out of this deal great except for UK fans. Cal has gotten filthy rich, players use us as a stepping stone each year to become rich, but the fans have gotten nothing but consistent heartbreak in the tournament and we don't get rich.

What player used you as a stepping stone?[laughing]

This post is a perfect example of the entitlement generation. It's also some really weird logic.

When you watch a movie, do you get pissed off that Paramount got rich, the cable company got rich, that the actors used you as a stepping stone? You got entertained didn't you?

As for UK winning a title...you're welcome to adopt the victory of a NC but other than bragging rights to other teams fans, what do you really get? In fact, If something is easy...something you can do 99 times out of 100, it has no value....people tend to cherish things that are rare and hard to obtain....things that require hard work, timing and some luck.

There are many parts of a BB season that can be celebrated and give satisfaction besides the NCAAT. There's winning a game, winning lots of games, beating a rival, winning the conference, winning the conference tourney, rewarded with a good seed, winning NCAAT games, S16, EE, FF, and the NC. To only find enjoyment in just one of those...to judge them all on one is sad.

IMHO...it's about love and loyalty to a group...the program, the University and the BBN. If your only in this group for titles, you should seriously consider turning in your fan card and find another thing to live vicariously through.

 

[Aike]

Here's some ideas...

Horseshoes

Alan Francis, 1993–present; won 14 out of 17 world championships,[116] only player to pitch over 90%


College Rugby

• Bowling Green State University Men's Rugby Team has won 34 consecutive Mid-American Conference (MAC) championship since 1982 (two were won in one year when the season switched from spring to fall)

If anyone is looking for something more enjoyable and less stressful to root for.

 

[sluggercatfan]

Who do you want to replace him with?

Didn't say anything about replacement...just stating what I feel

What player used you as a stepping stone?[laughing]

This post is a perfect example of the entitlement generation. It's also some really weird logic.

When you watch a movie, do you get pissed off that Paramount got rich, the cable company got rich, that the actors used you as a stepping stone? You got entertained didn't you?

As for UK winning a title...you're welcome to adopt the victory of a NC but other than bragging rights to other teams fans, what do you really get? In fact, If something is easy...something you can do 99 times out of 100, it has no value....people tend to cherish things that are rare and hard to obtain....things that require hard work, timing and some luck.

There are many parts of a BB season that can be celebrated and give satisfaction besides the NCAAT. There's winning a game, winning lots of games, beating a rival, winning the conference, winning the conference tourney, rewarded with a good seed, winning NCAAT games, S16, EE, FF, and the NC. To only find enjoyment in just one of those...to judge them all on one is sad.

IMHO...it's about love and loyalty to a group...the program, the University and the BBN. If your only in this group for titles, you should seriously consider turning in your fan card and find another thing to live vicariously through.

Don't blame it on the fans...what is the guys name who has done All the blovating about # of players in the nba, gold standard of college bb, we don't play college bb..we are college...just shut the hell up and play.

 

[Blue wood]

Gotta have players return. Roy and K gets that.

Coach k has 5 titles in 34 YEARS! So lets not act like he wins it every year

 

[morgousky]

Cal can only recruit who's available. He can't pull an AD out of his *** if there isn't one available. Zaytoven used the word "transcendent". How many transcendent players have there been since 2012 that we didn't get?

The elephant in the room is the recruiting dip we've had for a while and no one is noticing. He just tagged Briscoe, a 6'1 guard who can't shoot and isn't an elite defender, as team leader. Ask yourself, was that possible in 2010? 2011? 2012? 2014? 2015?

We've got to hit the cream of the crop for calls system to flourish and win titles. That's my only point. And it's valid.

 

[Aike]

The elephant in the room is the recruiting dip we've had for a while and no one is noticing. He just tagged Briscoe, a 6'1 guard who can't shoot and isn't an elite defender, as team leader. Ask yourself, was that possible in 2010? 2011? 2012? 2014? 2015?

We've got to hit the cream of the crop for calls system to flourish and win titles. That's my only point. And it's valid.

Were Fox and Monk the cream of the crop? I would say yes.

Did we flourish this year? I would call winning the SEC by two games and winning the SEC tournament flourishing.

Could we have won the title this year? Again, losing on a buzzer beater in the EE to the eventual champ means we were right there. No one was dominant.

Are you just bothered when we aren't dominant? Or are you really trying to say that teams like this year's couldn't win it?

 

[morgousky]

Were Fox and Monk the cream of the crop? I would say yes.

Did we flourish this year? I would call winning the SEC by two games and winning the SEC tournament flourishing.

Could we have won the title this year? Again, losing on a buzzer beater in the EE to the eventual champ means we were right there. No one was dominant.

Are you just bothered when we aren't dominant? Or are you really trying to say that teams like this year's couldn't win it?

Both. I think this team overachieved. Fox became elite and that's the only reason we made it that far. Honest opinion without fear of being lynched by this board?

Bam was highly overrated. No skills at all, bad hands, no rim protection, and offensively handicapped. That's why you watched guard after guard attack him. We never saw that with guys like Jones, AD, Cousins, Towns, etc. so if he's a OAD, he's wasn't that great at all. Our other big targets were totally busts for our system. SKJ and Wenyen Gabriel were not close to what we have to have. We had no elite perimeter defender. He's been building incomplete rosters because he's missing targets he once got. I never for one second though this team would win a title. Would have Taken too much luck and not enough "good".

To get it right as cal would say, and cut down nets, these last few teams are not going to cut it.

If someone doesn't care about that and just "wants to be in the hunt" and all is well, then we're fine. If you legitimately want the best shot at that title with our system, recruiting HAS to pick up. Break it down however you want, the OAD system at UK requires few top target misses. There's only so many freshman in each class who can really contribute to win titles here. The NCAA is against us. It's hard enough so cal needs to pick it up and land 2 top 5 guys yearly.

As I said, was it possible to tag Briscoe 30+ minutes and team leader from 2010-2015? No chance, except for maybe the NIT year. That won't cut it and didn't.

 

[kybassfan]

5 years seems like an eternity in college basketball. Especially when teams you despise are winning titles.

Ah, so you missed the 60's, 70s and 80's

 

[JerseyCat84_rivals57050]

Both. I think this team overachieved. Fox became elite and that's the only reason we made it that far. Honest opinion without fear of being lynched by this board?

Bam was highly overrated. No skills at all, bad hands, no rim protection, and offensively handicapped. That's why you watched guard after guard attack him. We never saw that with guys like Jones, AD, Cousins, Towns, etc. so if he's a OAD, he's wasn't that great at all. Our other big targets were totally busts for our system. SKJ and Wenyen Gabriel were not close to what we have to have. We had no elite perimeter defender. He's been building incomplete rosters because he's missing targets he once got. I never for one second though this team would win a title. Would have Taken too much luck and not enough "good".

To get it right as cal would say, and cut down nets, these last few teams are not going to cut it.

If someone doesn't care about that and just "wants to be in the hunt" and all is well, then we're fine. If you legitimately want the best shot at that title with our system, recruiting HAS to pick up. Break it down however you want, the OAD system at UK requires few top target misses. There's only so many freshman in each class who can really contribute to win titles here. The NCAA is against us. It's hard enough so cal needs to pick it up and land 2 top 5 guys yearly.

As I said, was it possible to tag Briscoe 30+ minutes and team leader from 2010-2015? No chance, except for maybe the NIT year. That won't cut it and didn't.

Even two top 5 players doesnt guarantee anything. Fox, Bam, and Monk were 6,7 and 9 on rivals. Not top 5 but a minuscule gap. I would want more MKG, TJ type alpha dogs.

 

[Ukbrassowtipin]

Gotta have players return. Roy and K gets that.

Not really...its about development. Ours are playing at the same level of Roys in year 3 and 4. What does it say all the years he has 5 star junior's and seniors and they don't make the final four. I'm fine with Cal, he gets his players playing at a high level much faster....its not bc they are given oad players

 

[sluggercatfan]

The elephant in the room is the recruiting dip we've had for a while and no one is noticing. He just tagged Briscoe, a 6'1 guard who can't shoot and isn't an elite defender, as team leader. Ask yourself, was that possible in 2010? 2011? 2012? 2014? 2015?

We've got to hit the cream of the crop for calls system to flourish and win titles. That's my only point. And it's valid.

Agree!!

 

[Adolph B. Calipari]

The recruiting is fine. We landed three consensus studs last year and 2 of the highest rising players in the class in Gabriel and SKJ. With or without Bamba the 17 class is amazing.

We all know that Cal wants the best of the best but he can't just cherry pick the top 5 from each class. Often times the misses haven't really been "misses" at all. Look no further than Giles and Bolden for proof of that. The "lower" rated players have also helped the Cat's tremendously. Hawkins and Willis played key roles this season. Booker and Ulis (both 4 star) also panned out pretty good.

Also keep in mind that as of today ALL other coaches in America would trade their 2017 class for UK's. Cal targets the studs that pack lightly. We can leave all that extra baggage to Duke, Kansas and Arizona.

 

[Aike]

Both. I think this team overachieved. Fox became elite and that's the only reason we made it that far. Honest opinion without fear of being lynched by this board?

Bam was highly overrated. No skills at all, bad hands, no rim protection, and offensively handicapped. That's why you watched guard after guard attack him. We never saw that with guys like Jones, AD, Cousins, Towns, etc. so if he's a OAD, he's wasn't that great at all. Our other big targets were totally busts for our system. SKJ and Wenyen Gabriel were not close to what we have to have. We had no elite perimeter defender. He's been building incomplete rosters because he's missing targets he once got. I never for one second though this team would win a title. Would have Taken too much luck and not enough "good".

To get it right as cal would say, and cut down nets, these last few teams are not going to cut it.

If someone doesn't care about that and just "wants to be in the hunt" and all is well, then we're fine. If you legitimately want the best shot at that title with our system, recruiting HAS to pick up. Break it down however you want, the OAD system at UK requires few top target misses. There's only so many freshman in each class who can really contribute to win titles here. The NCAA is against us. It's hard enough so cal needs to pick it up and land 2 top 5 guys yearly.

As I said, was it possible to tag Briscoe 30+ minutes and team leader from 2010-2015? No chance, except for maybe the NIT year. That won't cut it and didn't.

This team was a good as any other team in the country by the end of the year.

They didn't overachieve. They reached their potential.

They weren't "in the hunt" like a 4 seed. They were one of the 5 best teams by the end of the year.

They had to play the team everyone was scared to death of in the Sweet 16. Beat them soundly.

We weren't dominant like '12 or '15. If your measuring stick is dominant, or overall favorite going into every tourney, I think your expectations are unrealistic.

The Briscoe being a leader stuff was a non-issue. He had been there before so Cal wanted him to lead. Doesn't mean he was the best player. Those were Fox and Monk, those two top 5 guys you wanted.

We all would have loved it if Wenyen and SKJ had been better. Then we would have been dominant instead of just one of the best teams.

But you just aren't going to get dominant all that often. What we got this year was fine. Trying to paint them as a weak team that overachieved just to fit your narrative is kind of sad, really.

 

[kb22stang]

Where did I say I expect anything? All I said was it seems like an eternity. I don't expect it. I am old enough to have remembered all 8 of our NCAA Championships. All of them. We once went 20 years without one (58-78) and it was a long time to wait. But we did win another one.

My point was when teams that you don't particularly care for such as UNC, UL, Duke or UConn win then having to wait for another one seems like a long, long, long time such as in eternity. That is all I was saying. I will overlook your comment about a moron and your "not intelligent poster" comment. I forgive you because you know not what you are saying. You can't help it.

If there's no expectation then how can 5 years seem like an eternity? Your point is invalid, we are in the midst of one of our greatest runs ever, even with only one title. And it's even more impressive because Cal is doing this right when parity is at the highest level it's ever been. In addition to the on court performance our players generally appear to be really good guys, the program appears to be run cleanly and we have very few off court issues.

Plus, Cal has done what most coaches, P included, at UK couldn't. He has truly made us the center of college basketball. There are two programs discussed as being the hottest in the country, UK and Duke. No, that's not the same as winning titles, but it's another notch in his belt.

I would apologize for jumping on your whining post, but I'm not sorry. It's annoying as hell to read people criticizing Cal or whining that he hasn't done enough.

 

[Elliott Tim]

I woke up this morning finding out who won. I didn't waste my time yesterday watching. I got some sleep. It is a damned shame what is allowed to go on. I won't speak of it anymore but it is a shame.

 

[willievic]

We need to stick to one thing. First we have the talent but got screwed by the officiating. Now we don't have the talent to win it all. Which is it? We've been in the position to win it all almost every year Cal has been here.

A large part of the problem is our expectations. Every year Cal has been here, we have had the No. 1 recruiting class per Scout or Rivals. Last year Cal said it was his best recruiting class ever. When you hear talk like that, you have high expectations, and high expectations for Cat fans is a National Championship. If someone stays, then Cal has a tendency to play a Freshmen over him, trying to get the Freshmen to be able to be a one and done. That was obvious to a lot of us this year with Gabriel and Willis.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

 

[BBUK_anon]

Pretty much and I might add if you face your trouble it will turn away from YOU.

 

[BBUK_anon]

The elephant in the room is the recruiting dip we've had for a while and no one is noticing. He just tagged Briscoe, a 6'1 guard who can't shoot and isn't an elite defender, as team leader. Ask yourself, was that possible in 2010? 2011? 2012? 2014? 2015?

We've got to hit the cream of the crop for calls system to flourish and win titles. That's my only point. And it's valid.

I think some validity has been questioned and actually challenged quite well.

 

[willievic]

If there's no expectation then how can 5 years seem like an eternity? Your point is invalid, we are in the midst of one of our greatest runs ever, even with only one title. And it's even more impressive because Cal is doing this right when parity is at the highest level it's ever been. In addition to the on court performance our players generally appear to be really good guys, the program appears to be run cleanly and we have very few off court issues.

Plus, Cal has done what most coaches, P included, at UK couldn't. He has truly made us the center of college basketball. There are two programs discussed as being the hottest in the country, UK and Duke. No, that's not the same as winning titles, but it's another notch in his belt.

I would apologize for jumping on your whining post, but I'm not sorry. It's annoying as hell to read people criticizing Cal or whining that he hasn't done enough.

kb22stang, I don't think Sawnee post was whining. When a coach has the no.1 recruiting class every year, the expectations are high. Coach Cal builds up the fans expectations by telling them how great the recruiting class is.
If you will read Cal's latest book,"SUCCESS IS THE ONLY OPTION", you will see that he is not talking about winning a National Championship.
To most UK fans, success means winning No. 9, not how many "One and Dones" we have.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

 

[kb22stang]

kb22stang, I don't think Sawnee post was whining. When a coach has the no.1 recruiting class every year, the expectations are high. Coach Cal builds up the fans expectations by telling them how great the recruiting class is.
If you will read Cal's latest book,"SUCCESS IS THE ONLY OPTION", you will see that he is not talking about winning a National Championship.
To most UK fans, success means winning No. 9, not how many "One and Dones" we have.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

You realize that is the same argument that fans of our rivals will use, and it's bogus. Yes, he gets top recruiting classes but at the same he's turning his roster over yearly. And yes, he does that to himself. But you can't say b/c of his recruiting classes he should have more titles b/c they leave after one year. It's simply not a logical argument.

If you define success solely by winning titles then I'm not sure that's fair either. One bad shot or missed defensive assignment can lose you a game in the tournament. Are you saying every team besides UNC was unsuccessful this year? Was Brandon Knight's team unsuccessful, or how about the 38-1 team? Success should mean being a top 5-10 team and having a real shot at winning it all.

I would say Cal has been incredibly successful in his tenure here.

 

[willievic]

Who do you want to replace him with?

Don't you think the subject can be discussed without wanting Cal replaced. I do. I don't think any UK fan wants him replaced. If a player isn't a first round draft choice, maybe Cal should take a look at talking to him about returning to improve his chances.
Briscoe is a good example this year. I do not believe he will be drafted, definitely not in the first round. He could stay another year, work on his outside shot, and ball handling skills, and even if he didn't make the NBA, he is closer to getting his degree. I've heard all the BS about how they can come back later and finish school, but only a small percentage do.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

kb22stang, I don't think Sawnee post was whining. When a coach has the no.1 recruiting class every year, the expectations are high. Coach Cal builds up the fans expectations by telling them how great the recruiting class is.
If you will read Cal's latest book,"SUCCESS IS THE ONLY OPTION", you will see that he is not talking about winning a National Championship.
To most UK fans, success means winning No. 9, not how many "One and Dones" we have.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

You realize that is the same argument that fans of our rivals will use, and it's bogus. Yes, he gets top recruiting classes but at the same he's turning his roster over yearly. And yes, he does that to himself. But you can't say b/c of his recruiting classes he should have more titles b/c they leave after one year. It's simply not a logical argument.

If you define success solely by winning titles then I'm not sure that's fair either. One bad shot or missed defensive assignment can lose you a game in the tournament. Are you saying every team besides UNC was unsuccessful this year? Was Brandon Knight's team unsuccessful, or how about the 38-1 team? Success should mean being a top 5-10 team and having a real shot at winning it all.

I would say Cal has been incredibly successful in his tenure here.

kb, in life, everyone judges success different. When I flew fighters, I wanted to be the best in my Squadron, and I worked hard every time when "Dog-Fighting" to be that. Your being OK with just having a good record is just fine for you, and a lot of other fans. Other fans want a NC, but that doesn't make them right or you wrong, or vice versa. That's what's nice about life. We all have the choice of what we thing success is. A lot of people are satisfied with less in life, and that's their choice. Nothing wrong with that.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

 

[Chuckinden]

I think Coach Cal is definitely out recruiting Coach K right now. I think its just that it used to be Cal and nobody else. Also, you can't just go by numbers in recruiting. Karl Anthony-Towns was ranked 10th according to ESPN and I think his highest rating was 6th. The 2014 class was considered to be one of our weakest at the time, and now you have Towns (considered to be the future of the NBA), Booker (talked about being the best 2 guard in the league) Ulis (5'9" point guard that was a candidate for player of the year and putting up great numbers against NBA guards now), and Trey Lyles (not doing much now, but definitely has a career in the NBA). Duke recruits always seem to get propped up when they go to Duke, and their NBA careers never match their expectations coming out of high school (with the exception of Kyrie Irving).

Also, you have some years where you don't have sure fire NBA stars in high school. We had Wall and Cousins Cal's first year, but they have been the best two players drafted at their position since 2010. Anthony Davis won every award possible in 2012, and is the only basketball player to ever do what he did as a freshman. We had a down year in recruiting in 2013 and Noel was the only top recruit we landed. The next year we followed up by getting the #1 PG, SG, PF, and #2 C and #2 SG. We almost got the #1 SF too, and had 4 of the top 10 players in what was considered to be a really strong recruiting class. I would put Monk and Fox as our best back court tandem we've had since Cal has been at UK (slightly above Wall and Bledsoe). Skal was the #2 rated recruit but was our first top recruit that majorly underperformed. Next year's recruiting class is considered to be a down year in recruiting overall.

Duke hasn't had one class that I would trade with them since Cal has been at UK (would only really even consider last year's, but most people forget that Kennard wasn't half the player as a freshman compared to this year). UK's recruiting class as it is today is much better for next year then Duke's, and there's no guarantee of Duke getting any of their remaining top targets. People put too much stock in numbers and should pay more attention to the fact that our recruits always seem to out perform other team's recruits, always seem to buy into Cal system's and play unselfishly (except for 2013), and always seem to find what Cal likes to call "a will to win". We've had a ton of recruits who proved to be fearless when the game was on the line and have come up big to hit tough game winners or shots when it mattered most. I trust Cal's evaluation of recruits more than Paul Biancardi (same guy who had Wall ranked 6th in his high school class) Evan Daniels, or anyone else based off our recruits past success.

Other top coaches are now embracing Cal's model, and have realized that his system gives you the best chance for success if you can get them all to buy in and develop them. The only problem is, other coaches have found out that it isn't as easy to do as what Cal makes it look like (Izzo, Coach K this year, Self). The biggest flaw with Cal's system right now is the fact that we really do need some of our good recruits returning every year to have a good chance to win (Jones and Lamb in 2012/ the twins and Cauley in 2015). Although that's the biggest flaw with Cal's system, it's also the reason why he is able to have the top class year in and year out. Cal is honest with his players, and advises them based off what he feels is in their best interest. If he feels that is to leave, he tells them. If he thinks its best for them to return, he will tell them. He also lets them make their own decision unlike some coaches (Roy/Coach K), and that has hurt UK a couple seasons because they chose to leave (Teague/Dakari).

P.S. CoachX on here had a post recently talking about how Coach K is getting hammered on the recruiting trail right now because of recruits being unhappy with things he promised and what he delivered. Coach K's recruiting got propped up once he took control of Team USA, and now that he is done coaching that, I believe we're about to see a decline in Duke recruiting.

DNR

 

[BBUK_anon]

Don't you think the subject can be discussed without wanting Cal replaced. I do. I don't think any UK fan wants him replaced. If a player isn't a first round draft choice, maybe Cal should take a look at talking to him about returning to improve his chances.
Briscoe is a good example this year. I do not believe he will be drafted, definitely not in the first round. He could stay another year, work on his outside shot, and ball handling skills, and even if he didn't make the NBA, he is closer to getting his degree. I've heard all the BS about how they can come back later and finish school, but only a small percentage do.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!



kb, in life, everyone judges success different. When I flew fighters, I wanted to be the best in my Squadron, and I worked hard every time when "Dog-Fighting" to be that. Your being OK with just having a good record is just fine for you, and a lot of other fans. Other fans want a NC, but that doesn't make them right or you wrong, or vice versa. That's what's nice about life. We all have the choice of what we thing success is. A lot of people are satisfied with less in life, and that's their choice. Nothing wrong with that.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

I can take that a little further to include personal success. I understand that but success through a team to the extent that some fans take it is a little much many times. I only state this due to past years seeing fans on this site go over the top with their love or criticism. It goes both ways. I always hold myself more accountable than I do others. Some hold others more accountable than they do themselves. (Right or wrong who knows.) You can see that in some posters (Or at least that is what you feel is happening.) I have no issue with those who expect championships. The issue is when those same people do not hold themselves as accountable in their personal lives. I guess in a nutshell that is what gets me. A double-standard. (I typed too much.)

 

[Chuckinden]

The number of titles in the 60's, 70's, and 80's is meaningless today. It's a different era. We are getting the #1 classes practically every year and Cal is getting a potful of money to win at the highest level.

I am not complaining, in general, about what Cal has done here, but everyone has their peeves...Cal isn't perfect. If we are going to "sell our soul" with this system, we need to get the highest rewards on a "regular" basis. In my opinion, we should win a title every 5-7 yrs. Cal has had a lot of bad luck with the seedings and the officials. I honestly think Cal can win a title every 5-7 yrs as long as he continues to bring in top talent.

 

[awf]

What does my comment have to do with cheering or not cheering for the Cats. I was born cheering for my Cats.

Five years seems like an eternity when you want a championship. Simple enough.

You seem to be one of those everyone gets a ribbon people. Sit and look at the history of the program. There have been periods where the team has went many more years between FF's. I don't think five years is an eternity...... at best I might have 25 yrs left in me.......so five years isn't a long time.......certainly not an "eternity" as you state.