Is this team deeper than 2015?
- Thread starter richbrookstomato
- Start date
Slow your roll.
That team also had two future NBA all-stars, one of the best college PG's we've seen, proven big game clutch shooters like Aaron Harrison, and something like 9 guys who played NBA. Not only that, they were a veteran team with guys like WIllis, Hawkins, Poythress.
That team also had two future NBA all-stars, one of the best college PG's we've seen, proven big game clutch shooters like Aaron Harrison, and something like 9 guys who played NBA. Not only that, they were a veteran team with guys like WIllis, Hawkins, Poythress.
Back in August, while making it clear I was not making an overall qualitative comparison, I made these player-by-player match-ups. I think defensively the 2015 team will remain unparalleled, pre-Poythress injury. Other comparisons are in the eye of the individual.
I re-post this here to add to the debate.
1. So. PG Andrew Harrison -- Fr. PG Cason Wallace. I know Wallace may not start, but a more apt comparison with AH.
2. So. 2G Aaron Harrison -- Sr. 2g CJ Fredrick. Proven clutch shooter v. proven shooter from everywhere - when healthy. Aaron's clutch shooting run was legendary.
3. Fr. Pg Tyler Ulis -- Sr. PG Sahvir Wheeler. Two dynamos. Sophomore Ulis was unstoppable. But this is freshman Ulis compared to the SEC assist leader.
4. Fr. Devin Booker -- Jr. Antonio Reeves. We all think of what Booker BECAME in the NBA. As a freshman he was up and down.
5. Jr. Alex Poythress -- Fr. Chris Livingston. Alex getting injured was a huge blow. Please lord let the 22-23 Cats stay healthy.
6. Fr. Trey Lyles -- So. Daimion Collins. Different players. Lyles was a multi-dimensional scoring threat.
7. Jr. Willie Cauley-Stein -- Jr. Jacob Toppin. We know what Willie became. We're about to see what Toppin can be.
8. Fr. Karl A. Towns -- Sr. Oscar Tschiebwe. KAT or returning NPOY. Towns, for sure: The one true mega-talent on 2015, in terms of performance as a college player. But Oscar's numbers ain't bad...
9. So. Dakari Johnson -- So. Lance Ware. Dakari got lost on that team but was a force inside at times. Ware is a competent back-up.
10. So. Marcus Lee -- Fr. Ugonna Kingsley. Lee contributed at least some that year. UKO likely a practice player - but what potential.
11. So. Derek Willis -- Fr. Adou Thiero. Willis was not a contributor in 2015. AT looks ready to produce this year.
I re-post this here to add to the debate.
1. So. PG Andrew Harrison -- Fr. PG Cason Wallace. I know Wallace may not start, but a more apt comparison with AH.
2. So. 2G Aaron Harrison -- Sr. 2g CJ Fredrick. Proven clutch shooter v. proven shooter from everywhere - when healthy. Aaron's clutch shooting run was legendary.
3. Fr. Pg Tyler Ulis -- Sr. PG Sahvir Wheeler. Two dynamos. Sophomore Ulis was unstoppable. But this is freshman Ulis compared to the SEC assist leader.
4. Fr. Devin Booker -- Jr. Antonio Reeves. We all think of what Booker BECAME in the NBA. As a freshman he was up and down.
5. Jr. Alex Poythress -- Fr. Chris Livingston. Alex getting injured was a huge blow. Please lord let the 22-23 Cats stay healthy.
6. Fr. Trey Lyles -- So. Daimion Collins. Different players. Lyles was a multi-dimensional scoring threat.
7. Jr. Willie Cauley-Stein -- Jr. Jacob Toppin. We know what Willie became. We're about to see what Toppin can be.
8. Fr. Karl A. Towns -- Sr. Oscar Tschiebwe. KAT or returning NPOY. Towns, for sure: The one true mega-talent on 2015, in terms of performance as a college player. But Oscar's numbers ain't bad...
9. So. Dakari Johnson -- So. Lance Ware. Dakari got lost on that team but was a force inside at times. Ware is a competent back-up.
10. So. Marcus Lee -- Fr. Ugonna Kingsley. Lee contributed at least some that year. UKO likely a practice player - but what potential.
11. So. Derek Willis -- Fr. Adou Thiero. Willis was not a contributor in 2015. AT looks ready to produce this year.
Last edited:
No. Also, Willie Cauley-Stein was an All-American and Defensive player of the year that season.
No
No
Maybe deeper, but not near as talented, if that makes sense.
1-10 in 2015 were all pretty much former McD’s AA’s, which means some major talent.
1-10 in 2023 are all good players, but lack that level of talent.
For both teams 1-10 are fairly equal. Not a lot of drop off from starter to bench.
In hindsight, I am not sure a platoon was the way to go in 2015. Marcus Lee was not quite at the same level as the rest, IMHO. I would have given Trey Lyles most, if not all, of Marcus Lee’s minutes at the 4 and played 3 guards a lot (especially after Poythress went down) with the Twins and Booker together. One of my biggest issues I had with 2015 is that Cal decided to stay “big” with Lyles at the 3 instead of going “small” with Booker at the 3.
Fitting square pegs in round holes rarely works.
I understand the reasoning behind him platooning, especially before the Poythress injury, but I felt like the best five were the Twins, Booker, WCS, and KAT and that a 3 guard lineup would have been stronger offensively, but I am biased toward having as many shooters as possible out on the floor together.
1-10 in 2015 were all pretty much former McD’s AA’s, which means some major talent.
1-10 in 2023 are all good players, but lack that level of talent.
For both teams 1-10 are fairly equal. Not a lot of drop off from starter to bench.
In hindsight, I am not sure a platoon was the way to go in 2015. Marcus Lee was not quite at the same level as the rest, IMHO. I would have given Trey Lyles most, if not all, of Marcus Lee’s minutes at the 4 and played 3 guards a lot (especially after Poythress went down) with the Twins and Booker together. One of my biggest issues I had with 2015 is that Cal decided to stay “big” with Lyles at the 3 instead of going “small” with Booker at the 3.
Fitting square pegs in round holes rarely works.
I understand the reasoning behind him platooning, especially before the Poythress injury, but I felt like the best five were the Twins, Booker, WCS, and KAT and that a 3 guard lineup would have been stronger offensively, but I am biased toward having as many shooters as possible out on the floor together.
One caveat, if I may.
If Cal would have kept platooning, and went small with the first unit, I think the platoon could have continued to work. Instead of moving Lyles into the starting lineup, move Booker in and replace Booker with Hawkins and continue to run the platoons. I think they would have been a major boost to our offense. Three shooting threats in the starting five instead of two. And I think he should have trusted Hawkins enough to give him that second guard spot on the second unit, instead of pretty much abandoning the platoon after a few games without Poythress.
PG Harrison/Ulis
SG Harrison/Hawkins
SF Booker/Lyles
PF WCS/Lee
C KAT/Johnson
Keep platooning with a 25/15 split in minutes and continue to just wear teams out.
If Cal would have kept platooning, and went small with the first unit, I think the platoon could have continued to work. Instead of moving Lyles into the starting lineup, move Booker in and replace Booker with Hawkins and continue to run the platoons. I think they would have been a major boost to our offense. Three shooting threats in the starting five instead of two. And I think he should have trusted Hawkins enough to give him that second guard spot on the second unit, instead of pretty much abandoning the platoon after a few games without Poythress.
PG Harrison/Ulis
SG Harrison/Hawkins
SF Booker/Lyles
PF WCS/Lee
C KAT/Johnson
Keep platooning with a 25/15 split in minutes and continue to just wear teams out.
More versatility with players, most can play 2-3 positions equally well.
Kingsley had 10 points and a block on Oscar in the pro day scrimmage. I'd say he gets PT.
I agree the 3 guards would have been better.
That second 5 is pretty blah to me on paper though. I guess with Lyles, DJ and Ulis it would make some plays but idk.
I agree about the second five, but for 4-5 minute stretches to give the first team a rest, they would have been fine.
All in all, I think going three guards with WCS and KAT as the starters and bringing Ulis off the bench in the backcourt and then Lyles and Johnson coming in at the 4 and 5 would have been best practice after Poythress went down. That would have kept three guards/shooters in the game the whole game and spread the floor. And Lee just wasn’t on par with WCS, KAT, Lyles, and Johnson. I would have rotated those four at the 4 and 5 and kept Lee on the bench. Play your best 8. Heck, we might have been better off playing a 9 man rotation before Poythress went down. Did Lee being in the rotation really do that much for the team? Wouldn’t playing Lyles at his natural PF position make more sense than playing him the entire game at the 3?
A good point, this year maybe more athletic but 2015 more skilled basketball players
Close but Cal will still find a way to screw it up just like he did in 2015.
I think on paper it’s closer than my initial gut reaction would tell me. But that 2015 team brought back a ton of tourney experience and starts. And easily had more talent up and down. I do think Reeves is being slept on. But we also have a contingent of UK fans, bless their hearts, that for some reason refuse to acknowledge Wheelers glaring weaknesses as a point guard and are overrating the ever loving **** out of him.
Depth is more about the bench though. So it’s more…Booker, Ulis, Dakari, Lee, Willis, Hawkins vs Fredrick, Wallace, Ware, Collins, Kingsley and Theiro.
Still pretty close if that is indeed the bench. I didn’t include poythress. Lyles was the starter once he went down.
We’re pretty loaded this season. The guys on field of 68 are starting to realize it as well i think. Seems the more people look at our roster the more they also start to think we might end up better than anyone initially thought. We’ll see i guess.
Depth is more about the bench though. So it’s more…Booker, Ulis, Dakari, Lee, Willis, Hawkins vs Fredrick, Wallace, Ware, Collins, Kingsley and Theiro.
Still pretty close if that is indeed the bench. I didn’t include poythress. Lyles was the starter once he went down.
We’re pretty loaded this season. The guys on field of 68 are starting to realize it as well i think. Seems the more people look at our roster the more they also start to think we might end up better than anyone initially thought. We’ll see i guess.
That's a bold *** prediction. Team definitely feels like they have a chance to do something special. I haven't been this positive or upbeat about basketball preseason in many years. I'm usually negative but even I feel like this team has a legit Final Four chance.
NO! I don't even think it's close at this point. I mean we're deep and talented this year.. but 2015 deep?? Shiiit. No. That was a historical type of team we had going on. It's ashamed how it ended but when teams came out just to warm up they'd get intimidated a lot of the time and thats a big *** advantage to go up against a team who feels like they are defeated even before tipoff. That 15 team was just different. It was way more talented and stocked, deep or that my opinion! But that don't mean it not a great group this year. It's the start of something! This team just now fixing to write their own chapter. Hopefully we playing in April and this becomes my favorite all time team!
The ending soured most - including me - but that team was historically good and deep. The starting back-court returned from starting in the prior year's national championship game, for example. And they had Ulis/Booker backing them up.
It's not close.
It's not close.
Flop Toppin (Lyles) and Collins (WCS) for comparison sake but overall great post.
I had the same intitulant reaction but it’s hard to say for sure because we don’t really know how good Wallace, Livingston, Thiero are going to be or how well Reeves will adjust to the increase in competition. We’re also comparing the end product of 2015 to an unseen product in 2022/23.
2015 is hard to measure up to though. And then you have the harrison twins who are hard to make comparisons to period because they didn’t necessarily do a lot of things that jumped out at you but win games. They never appeared dominant at their positions. But they just kept winning games. I think(and i’m also guilty of this) a lot of us may be still underrating them to this day.
no way--and the 2015 lacked 1 thing
a competent coach capable of utilizing TALENT to the max.
rr
a competent coach capable of utilizing TALENT to the max.
rr
We remember how good 2015 was and the big time NBA stars that were on that team, but from a point in time comparison it appears a lot closer than the initial thoughts that pop into one’s head would lead you to believe.
I think this will be a better college offensive basketball team. I like the fact they are stronger at wing position. Bigs are fantastic to have...but the spacing is atrocious in CBB with big men playing together and too often is bogged down to post up.
I like the speed/offensive skill/athleticism better on this team. That doesn't mean I expect 38-1 and I want NO PART of an undefeated season. Give me a National Title. I love the '12 38-2 team more then '15 because they dominated in the NCAA Tournament and won #8.
You will have the opportunity to extend leads and stay in games with your depth due to the offensive ability of the players to do several things well and not just have 2 playmakers who have to do everything to set up slow footed and unathletic players who were 1 dimensional offensively. Also upgraded at Forward spot with Brooks/Hopkins leaving. Defensively they can create turnovers and points from their defense and offensively this is the most skill I've ever seen Cal have at any stop.
I like the speed/offensive skill/athleticism better on this team. That doesn't mean I expect 38-1 and I want NO PART of an undefeated season. Give me a National Title. I love the '12 38-2 team more then '15 because they dominated in the NCAA Tournament and won #8.
You will have the opportunity to extend leads and stay in games with your depth due to the offensive ability of the players to do several things well and not just have 2 playmakers who have to do everything to set up slow footed and unathletic players who were 1 dimensional offensively. Also upgraded at Forward spot with Brooks/Hopkins leaving. Defensively they can create turnovers and points from their defense and offensively this is the most skill I've ever seen Cal have at any stop.
Let's sweep Tennessee and beat Bruce Pearl before we start talking about 2015.
Appreciate your posts as always but as a college player Oscar is far superior to what Towns was. Granted Towns was here just one year but if we are just doing it for sake of comparison to time at UK it is Oscar.
I'd take 2021-22 Oscar over any big at UK in past 30 years minus AD.
Let’s calm down. Let’s see if we can shoot in a game and play defense
Love the players
Still gotta prove it on the court
Love the players
Still gotta prove it on the court
It's gonna be hard for even Cal to screw this team up. Lotta weapons.
Oscar is a monster with a good motor, no doubt. Towns is a real polished basketball player with skills. There’s no comparison, talent-wise. You take Towns any day of the week and I’m not talking about because he’s in the NBA or whatever.
Just like you take Dakari Johnson in 2014 over WCS because WCS has absolutely zero basketball skill or IQ.
There's something to be said for veteran play and talent. For example, do we really think the 1998 team was more talented than 2010? No way. But you'd be a fool to go all-in on 2010 if they played the 1998 team, because that 1998 team had "gray beards", as Tubby said. They'd played in multiple Final Fours before that 1998 run.
Likewise, the 2015 team was special because the twins, WCS, Lee, Hawkins, and Johnson had made a run the year before. They understood what it meant to play in the tournament and make a deep run.
So no, this current team probably wouldn't beat them in the tournament if they faced each other.
Likewise, the 2015 team was special because the twins, WCS, Lee, Hawkins, and Johnson had made a run the year before. They understood what it meant to play in the tournament and make a deep run.
So no, this current team probably wouldn't beat them in the tournament if they faced each other.
Last edited:
Also keep in mind the amount of talent returning across the board in college basketball in 2015 was much better than this season.
UK returned a boat load of talent, but Wisconsin, Duke, Zona, and a couple of other teams had a lot back that year as well.
Comparatively speaking, while UK doesn’t have as much pure talent back as in 2015, teams like UNC, Gonzaga, and Houston do not have the talent that Wisconsin, Duke, and Zona had either. Just my opinion.
UK returned a boat load of talent, but Wisconsin, Duke, Zona, and a couple of other teams had a lot back that year as well.
Comparatively speaking, while UK doesn’t have as much pure talent back as in 2015, teams like UNC, Gonzaga, and Houston do not have the talent that Wisconsin, Duke, and Zona had either. Just my opinion.
too early....
one thing i can tell you...
i have the same giddy feeling!
so.... maybe
one thing i can tell you...
i have the same giddy feeling!
so.... maybe
I seriously doubt that, if you’re talking about the quality of the depth. We had both the starting 5, and the 2nd 5 in 2015 that would have been top 5 rated teams. No way this team could do that.
Latest
-
01
KSR
Mark Pope to host Media Madness ahead of Kentucky season
-
02
KSR
Mark Pope continues to push for a 15th roster spot as summer practice ends
-
03
KSR
ESPN named Steve Spurrier college football's biggest villain and got it exactly right
-
04
KSR
2026 Kentucky Position Previews: EDGE
-
05
KSR
Who's from Kentucky? Meet the Wildcats with Bluegrass State ties