Is it time to discuss
- Thread starter dignon003
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Maybe a better question should John change his recruiting philosophy to match what Cale is doing at PSU, tie up most of your scholarship money on a few studs and fill the roster with what is left over.
Still not sure how Cael does it... I understand he gets first pick of PA and then neighboring Ohio does not hurt. OK does not have the talent in numbers as PA so just locking down the state is not enough. On the good side.... I feel we are only behind PSU and potentially tOSU at Nationals. Also, when do we expect Automatic Bid numbers to be out?
Bids should be out tomorrow. Cael to PSU was the perfect storm that cannot be matched by OSU unless the local talent improves by leaps and bounds. Cael doesn't get a few good guys and fill in, 8 of the 10 starters on that team were top 10 p4p in their class. If memory serves, suriano was 2, gulibon was top 3, retherford was top 5, Nolf was top 6, Joseph was around 8 I think, hall was 1, nickal was top 6, Nevills was top 6. The guy that was suppose to start at 133, Cortez was around top 10. PA is far and away the best and deepest HS wrestling state. Half of the AAs at nationals last year came from PA. I think it is remarkable what coach smith is doing. Neither Boyd or Schafer were top 200 coming out , Weigel was just outside the top 100. All three of them might make AA. We have potential point scorers as back ups up and down the line up. With what Cael has going on might put the pokes in another 10 year drought, but there is not a better coach in the country.
Incredible that any Cowboy fan is even thinking of replacing John Smith. He is a better coach than Sanderson or anyone else in the country. Recruiting is down at OK State and up at Penn State but remember that Pennsylvania, Ohio and New York and New Jersey have far more top wrestlers to recruit from. There is no one better to replace him. I hope he stays another 25 years.
LETS GO POKES!!!
R E L A X
I remember going to nationals in 2003 in KC. The morning before I picked up the newspaper and there was a nice article on John. He mentioned he had thought about stepping down. The team just wasn't going in the direction he was hoping they'd be going. Then he reeled off four straight titles. We also went into the '06 season ranked 2. Losing two duals to Minny.
Cael isn't getting all of his talent from PA. Suriano is from NY Nickal is from TX the Nevills are from CA Cortez is from Illinois Hall is from Minn Manville is from Minn both Lees are from IN. Cael is just out recruiting us. 9.9 schollys just go further at PSU obviously.
I remember going to nationals in 2003 in KC. The morning before I picked up the newspaper and there was a nice article on John. He mentioned he had thought about stepping down. The team just wasn't going in the direction he was hoping they'd be going. Then he reeled off four straight titles. We also went into the '06 season ranked 2. Losing two duals to Minny.
Cael isn't getting all of his talent from PA. Suriano is from NY Nickal is from TX the Nevills are from CA Cortez is from Illinois Hall is from Minn Manville is from Minn both Lees are from IN. Cael is just out recruiting us. 9.9 schollys just go further at PSU obviously.
Outside of geographical location PSU is the big dog on the street right now to HS wrestlers. They have the hot popular coach, the exciting style and wrestlers, massive home dual support and a streak at the top of the podium.
Everything is in their favor currently and looks to be for awhile longer.
Everything is in their favor currently and looks to be for awhile longer.
There is not an option for us near as good as coach Smith. But the bar has been raised and I think if we want number 35 and more we need to put more energy in recruiting and starting earlier recruiting. As I mentioned half of the top 20 for 2018 recruits have already committed else where. Increasing our recruiting budget such as travel would be good. I hope Oklahoma State would back the wrestling program to make some changes. I know 9.9 scholarships is the limit but there likely are areas we could improve recruiting. I think most of our scholarship money should go recruiting top 10 or 20 talent. I do agree when we have Brock's and Fix's in Oklahoma that is a great asset.
John is the only one who should decide when it's time to step down. As long as he has the passion for it, we cannot land a better head coach. We need help building the state talent up to the level it was at pre-2000. I know there are a lot of states that have surpassed us, talent pool wise, but it's not just a simple problem of having a small population. We have many traditional powerhouse high school teams can't even fill out a lineup. Look at Mid-Del where the Smiths are from, and you will see what I am talking about. It's more than just changing demographics in that area. The school district turned it's back on one of the most tradition rich wrestling school districts in the nation and it's slowly dying out over there. Since 2000, not many schools have consistently had solid programs. For all four classifications, I can count them on one hand. We have surges in talent every few years, but nothing like the it was 20+ years ago.
Take a kid like Jacobe Smith, for example. He didn't start wrestling until 8th grade. 20 years ago, he likely would have been wrestling much sooner. Where we grew up, school wrestling started in 4th grade, and each school easily fielded a team. By the time we got to eighth grade, it was our 5th year on the mat, and each school fed plenty of wrestlers into the junior high programs. They cut all that out, and now you have a hard time dragging kids from the hallways to start wrestling in 6th grade. I know there are clubs that pick up a little of the slack, but they don't practice 5 days a week like we did starting in 4th grade.
We need to be the team that gets any recruits we want west of the Mississippi outside of Big Ten area, while still snatching a few from the east who want to escape the crap weather or be on a campus with lots of hot chicks coached by the greatest US wrestler ever. The warm weather destination. Arizona State rising will cut into that.
at one of the last state tournaments i went to, MWC had 1 wrestler in the state tournament. that is very sad for a school that may have had one of the best teams for the larger schools ever in Oklahoma.
two of the programs in lawton are in a sad situation mainly because of their junior high and elementary programs.
Yes, Lawton was the same way too. They had three solid teams in that district, and Lawton High was once the best team in the nation. Lawton Mac is still tough, but nowhere near the level that Lawton High was. We still have solid teams in the state, but not nearly enough parity.
The only OSU fans who think it is time to replace John don't follow wrestling and it drives me up the wall. They can't name more than 3 wrestlers, they don't go to duals but they still think OSU should just win a title every other year. They only start taking about wrestling when we don't win nationals or we stub our toe in a big dual like PSU. It's the people who post here once a year.
Huh? Stall, stall, stall, and hope for a late takedown? Nope, not Penn State at all. Even Tom Brands has complained about that.
As an outsider looking in, I can say that the top 3 coaches in the country are Cael, Smith and Brands. Which one of them do you think you can talk into coming to OSU?
Also, PSU seems to have a ton of money, a great booster (NLWC) club in place, an ROTC program and a likable/lovable coach. It seems that John Smith has down some creative things to the extent he has been able to do it. he has had people move to Stillwater (Rosholts, Dieringrer and probably others). His teams peak a the right time and they win a lot of matches at the big Dance. He is a great ambassador for the sport.
My biggest question is, how low does a person's IQ have to be to suggest replacing John Smith is something that needs to be discussed?
Also, PSU seems to have a ton of money, a great booster (NLWC) club in place, an ROTC program and a likable/lovable coach. It seems that John Smith has down some creative things to the extent he has been able to do it. he has had people move to Stillwater (Rosholts, Dieringrer and probably others). His teams peak a the right time and they win a lot of matches at the big Dance. He is a great ambassador for the sport.
My biggest question is, how low does a person's IQ have to be to suggest replacing John Smith is something that needs to be discussed?
I don't know if the OP was suggesting replacing John, or if he was just thinking of a succession plan. Like everyone, replacing John in my opinion would be a terrible move. And I think the succession plan is in place, with Eric already in the room learning from the master.
If that's what he wants, he should go get a head coaching job to prove he is ready and can succeed.
With John, you're looking at a J Rob situation (the good kind). He will die on the mat, likely in that practice room. He still has two younger sons, and he intends on coaching them through their college careers. It's clear that Guerrero loves coaching with him (trust me, that isn't always the case).
Regarding your recruiting. You guys are doing a great job. I might worry more about the weight cuts, but its clear that John can still recruit top talent and develop middle of the road. It's possible that guys going up a weight might lead to more bonus points, but the cupboard isn't exactly bare in that room. Oklahoma, as a state, has been pretty deep the last two years and it looks like another two years. What Hardell Moore and OWA are doing is exactly what you need. Elite recruits.
Regarding your recruiting. You guys are doing a great job. I might worry more about the weight cuts, but its clear that John can still recruit top talent and develop middle of the road. It's possible that guys going up a weight might lead to more bonus points, but the cupboard isn't exactly bare in that room. Oklahoma, as a state, has been pretty deep the last two years and it looks like another two years. What Hardell Moore and OWA are doing is exactly what you need. Elite recruits.