Is it the system or recruiting?

[Rootmaster]

Love Huggs. Love the effort based game he instills. Hard working team is cool. But, why is it WVU doesn't ever get the go-to scorer that a lot of other good teams recruit. I'm talking about the 15 to 20 pt a game guy who can shoot from the field and the line. Seems that nearly every game it is a different guy that steps up and scores for WVU. While that is good in the team concept, the lack of go-to scorer has hurt in key games. Is it the Huggs system or recruiting...or something else? Thoughts?

 

[WVU-SE]

It is a little odd. I will say, I definitely don't think it's Huggs. Hell at Cincy he had a ton of NBA talent come thought the door. Demar Johnson, Kenyon Martin, Nick Van Exel right off the top of my head.

Not complaining because he's done very well here. But I was hoping we got a couple flat out STUDS when he got here.

 

[eerdoc]

Love Huggs. Love the effort based game he instills. Hard working team is cool. But, why is it WVU doesn't ever get the go-to scorer that a lot of other good teams recruit. I'm talking about the 15 to 20 pt a game guy who can shoot from the field and the line. Seems that nearly every game it is a different guy that steps up and scores for WVU. While that is good in the team concept, the lack of go-to scorer has hurt in key games. Is it the Huggs system or recruiting...or something else? Thoughts?

Maybe not so mysterious--I believe Huggs insists on a player being willing and having the requisite skill to play tough defense FIRST. I have observed, over my many years, that a kid willing to expend the effort to be a very tough defender and also be a dynamic scorer is a rather rare breed. Huggs has made his stand--you MUST play tough defense to you do not play!!! Kids who are prolific scorers who will not buy into the 'defense is mandatory' concept will not be a prime recruit for Huggs.

 

[HugoStiglitz_rivals34223]

System. Which is kind if a self fulfilling prohecy. We use it to make up for the talent we dont have, but it also diminishes our chances of getting that talent. Its like Georgia Tech FB

 

[eerdoc]

System. Which is kind if a self fulfilling prohecy. We use it to make up for the talent we dont have, but it also diminishes our chances of getting that talent. Its like Georgia Tech FB

Not sure I understood all you are trying to say.

 

[tOSUGrad90]

The prolific scorer who plays great defense is a five-star kid, who typically goes to Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, UNC or UCLA, then often straight to the NBA after one season of college.

 

[HugoStiglitz_rivals34223]

Not sure I understood all you are trying to say.

We historically do not draw the mcdonald all americans who aspire to be Jordan and Kobe. We make up for that with our physical defensive style of play. As a result these young kobe bryants really dont find that style appealing IMO. Just like the next Tom Brady isnt signing up to be qb at GT, the next Kobe isnt coming to wvu to learn the full court press

 

[xWVU2010x]

I think Huggs learned something after his Final Four program shortly turned to ash. The Final Four team was built on team first kids who commited to Beilein and his system, they came here to stay 4 years and make their mark on this program, not to make the NBA, or ride other NBAers coat tails to college glory. The blue chip kids he got at Cincy were never going to come here, and the few he could extract, Aaric Murray, Eron Harris, and Terry Henderson were not worth appeasing and were never going to get WVU consistent results. So he started his own system and it seems to be working. He wants the 4 year guys again, although in more of his mold, not Beilein's, even though Beilein's guys ultimately panned out for him. If he can grab a Devin Ebanks here and there I'm sure Huggs will take it, but he is not going to risk the success of failure of a season on players like that.

 

[Rootmaster]

I think Huggs learned something after his Final Four program shortly turned to ash. The Final Four team was built on team first kids who commited to Beilein

'''but they made the Final Four lol.

I don't believe that Huggs doesn't, or wouldn't, love a pure shooter even if he isn't the muscled up stud he prefers. Who has not heard him say..."I put so and so in because I wanted to find somebody who could make a shot!"

Point is...can't always score in transition and WVU doesn't attract the great shooters anymore. Huggs doesn't land them. We used to and don't now. Not a knock on Huggs but trying to move into the top level without a go to guy is like trying to win a world series with catchers pitching to other catchers.

 

[xWVU2010x]

'''but they made the Final Four lol.

I don't believe that Huggs doesn't, or wouldn't, love a pure shooter even if he isn't the muscled up stud he prefers. Who has not heard him say..."I put so and so in because I wanted to find somebody who could make a shot!"

Point is...can't always score in transition and WVU doesn't attract the great shooters anymore. Huggs doesn't land them. We used to and don't now. Not a knock on Huggs but trying to move into the top level without a go to guy is like trying to win a world series with catchers pitching to other catchers.

Let's not act like the Beilein teams didn't have bad shooting nights. As another poster said, elite defenders AND scorers are lottery picks that we are going against KU, Kentucky, UNC, etc for. We will not win going for such guys and when we do occasionally land one we will need to cater to them which won't mesh with the type of kids we do usually get.

 

[MountaineerWV]

First off, I see someone went ahead and mentioned John Beilein.....good grief. If he was still here, we'd be right where Michigan is.....on the BUBBLE! Huggs has us in competition for a 2-4 seed again.......I think we know who is best for our basketball program.....

Secondly, your high school top scorers typically aren't big on the idea of having to play full court defense. Besides, I think we have a couple of potential go-to guys that are young and learning. I think Bolden and West could be those type of players.

I believe our best years are just in front of us. Next year and the year after could be SWEET!

 

[Chazz Michael Michaels]

Try a little harder to remember.
Da'Sean Butler
Joe Alexander
KJones
Eron Harris would've had he stayed
I think L.West or Beetle have the potential

Love Huggs. Love the effort based game he instills. Hard working team is cool. But, why is it WVU doesn't ever get the go-to scorer that a lot of other good teams recruit. I'm talking about the 15 to 20 pt a game guy who can shoot from the field and the line. Seems that nearly every game it is a different guy that steps up and scores for WVU. While that is good in the team concept, the lack of go-to scorer has hurt in key games. Is it the Huggs system or recruiting...or something else? Thoughts?

The

 

[xWVU2010x]

First off, I see someone went ahead and mentioned John Beilein.....good grief. If he was still here, we'd be right where Michigan is.....on the BUBBLE! Huggs has us in competition for a 2-4 seed again.......I think we know who is best for our basketball program.....

Secondly, your high school top scorers typically aren't big on the idea of having to play full court defense. Besides, I think we have a couple of potential go-to guys that are young and learning. I think Bolden and West could be those type of players.

I believe our best years are just in front of us. Next year and the year after could be SWEET!

Didn't advocate for Beilein at all, just saying that IMO Huggins learned from adopting Beileins players and having success with them that consciously going for the 4 year guys, something he didn't really do at UC is a good formula for success.

 

[Rootmaster]

Let's not act like the Beilein teams didn't have bad shooting nights

You are showing your young age and your insecurities lol. There were a lot of good WVU shooters before you were just a thought in your daddy's head. The thread didn't mention Beilein. Let me make this simple for you to process. WVU has evolved into a team that lacks that day to day, go to, scorer type...not good or bad but a truth. Again. is it the system of play or the philosophy of recruiting?

 

[bEER_Nation13]

WVU has a pretty strong class coming in next year. Very underrated if you ask me. Knapper is tearing it up at Hargrave and can burn down the nets. Teddy Allen another guy who can burn down the nets, he's been a machine. He had a quadruple double other recently......33 points, 18 rebounds, 10 assists, and 11 steals. Then you have Derek Culver who is rated #1 player in Ohio.

Beetle and West are both freshmen and they can both shoot the basketball pretty damn good.

Then you have Jordan McCabe coming in year after next. White Chocolate 2.0 with his amazing passing and dribbling. He can also knock down shots.

The future is very bright for WVU. We had a hiccup few years ago that costed us few seasons but Huggins has righted the ship and the future looks quite promising for WVU basketball.

 

[Rootmaster]

Beer...I agree that the future is pretty bright for Mountaineer basketball. The here and now isn't so bad either. But, until we actually experience that go to scorer I will be skeptical about that issue. Your points however tend to reinforce the "system" side of the the question and not recruiting. Thanks for your well thought out response.

 

[xWVU2010x]

You are showing your young age and your insecurities lol. There were a lot of good WVU shooters before you were just a thought in your daddy's head. The thread didn't mention Beilein. Let me make this simple for you to process. WVU has evolved into a team that lacks that day to day, go to, scorer type...not good or bad but a truth. Again. is it the system of play or the philosophy of recruiting?

Insecurities? I'm really not sure what you're getting at, I haven't attacked anyone really in this thread. I mentioned Beilein because IMO his players taught Huggs that you can win with the 4 year guys which is why when things bottomed out during the Murray circus and we began implementing a "system" the recruiting philosophy changed, we cut down on the high risk high reward problem children and JUCOs and began pursuing guys like Carter, Adrian, and Dax who are in it for 4 years. With that change in philosophy we lose out on some potential studs who can take over a game single handedly but IMO you cannot have the rotation and style we do and have a guy like that. Guys like that do not want to be part of a team that prides itself on depth and wearing opponents down. So if we get these elusive scorers again it will probably come at the expense of the "Press Virginia" identity we have obtained.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers_rivals]

Let's see the positive side. WVU opponents can't beat WVU by concentrating on a few players. They have to beat the 10 mad dogs on defense, the scrappers on rebounders, the 50/50 loose ball vultures. This is much tougher than stopping one or two good shooters. Carter does that most games anyway for WVU. It's why WVU will be a #4 or higher seed in March Madness. WVU has stopped teams with shooting stars time after time this season. I love this team. I love this 10 mad dogs system. I love Huggins, when he doesn't fall off his stool and get a technical.

 

[writeon]

Huggs won't take a player who he feels can't play great defense. That eliminates a lot of good shooters.

 

[Rootmaster]

Guys like that do not want to be part of a team that prides itself on depth and wearing opponents down

Boy, you seem to be either thin skinned or love to argue with yourself. Again, this thread is not about Huggs not doing it right (read it please) or the style of this team (again read it please), it simply poses the question why we can't seem to land one consistent go to shooter/scorer type. Would have been a big plus in the five losses to date don't ya think? Just sayin'.

 

[xWVU2010x]

Boy, you seem to be either thin skinned or love to argue with yourself. Again, this thread is not about Huggs not doing it right (read it please) or the style of this team (again read it please), it simply poses the question why we can't seem to land one consistent go to shooter/scorer type. Would have been a big plus in the five losses to date don't ya think? Just sayin'.

Of course it would have been a plus but I dont believe we will ever get those players playing this style and compromising what we have going with this identity to get said players may not yield positive overall results.

 

[older gold]

By and large, Huggs is getting the same type player here that he won with in Cincy.

And he is doing it and finding success with greater obstacles than he had at Cincy.

Two key factors are different for him here:

1) The age-old WVU recruiting problem that you have to import your players. Even more acute in basketball, since urban areas are fertile for hoops recruiting . You don't have large cities like Cleveland, Cincinnati, Columbus, Toledo, etc. And many kids want to go to school at urban schools (the Big East a great example).

2) From top to bottom, the Big 12 is much stronger than the old Metro Conference. Beyond Cincinnati, Louisville and Memphis, the Metro was not as strong.

Huggs is doing a terrific job at WVU. We will have a major problem finding a coach of his caliber when that time comes.

 

[Rootmaster]

Huggs is doing a terrific job at WVU. We will have a major problem finding a coach of his caliber when that time comes.

Agreed. But there have to be players who fit his toughness model...and can still shoot the rock.

 

[dogeered_again]

I was stopping at a convenience store today. The clerk said... you're a WV fan, right I'm following them. They look good!

This is in Atlanta and not asked for. Eyes are upon us... outside of WV!

 

[Rootmaster]

I think we all can agree that Huggs has a system that works for WVU and is difficult for other teams to deal with...but sometimes the shooting from the field or the foul line can be difficult to watch lol. A friend of mine close to the situation thinks it is the strength training.
As good as the Mountaineers can be, they are still a pure shooter away from playing for it all under Huggs.

 

[pressvirginia]

Through the years

- Huggs retained/closed John Flowers' verbal to Beilein. Underrated.

- Ebanks/Jones/Bryant. Two 1,500+ point scorers & an NBA draftee. Stuff Final Fours are made of.

- I liked what Kilicli & Mitchell contributed. Especially 2011 season following up the Final Four run.

- Cottrill was a huge disappointment along with entire 2010 class.

- Busts abounded in 2011 class, but there was Gary Browne, terrific guard. Oh & one transfer - Juwan Staten.

- Harris/Henderson. That's on them.

- 13 class very productive with a bona fide star in Devin: Holton, Williams, Adrian, Macon, Watkins.

- 14 class vastly underrated & led to this current Press Virginia run: Phillip, Paige, Miles, Carter. Reinvigorated the entire program.

- 15 brought in West, Myers, Ahmad, Bolden, who have all produced at certain points & will continue to do so.

- Konate already pays off from 16. We'll see on Bender/Harler.

- Entire 17 class to me has tremendous potential. Culver is on par with any of the biggest touted/offered recruits in program history.



By and large, love our recruiting. These guys win.

 

[Rootmaster]

This is not a thread about what Huggs has accomplished (love him), nor is it a bashing of WVU's style (love it), it is however a thread about why we don't get the one go to shooter type that would put the program over the top. Amazing.

 

[There goes the Major]

Love Huggs. Love the effort based game he instills. Hard working team is cool. But, why is it WVU doesn't ever get the go-to scorer that a lot of other good teams recruit. I'm talking about the 15 to 20 pt a game guy who can shoot from the field and the line. Seems that nearly every game it is a different guy that steps up and scores for WVU. While that is good in the team concept, the lack of go-to scorer has hurt in key games. Is it the Huggs system or recruiting...or something else? Thoughts?

I'm not surprised it's harder to recruit to WV v. Cincy. But Kansas State? I think he pulled 1 or 2 studs there. Maybe that was an isolated thing. Generally, WV is too rural and I don't think Huggs plays the pay game like Calipari nor does WV have the alums leaving bags of money laying around.