Is David Braun Bill Carmody?

[NorthwesternFan51234]

Kind of get that impression. His team can punch above its weight class at times, but I don’t see Northwestern ever being anything more than after thought/joke in the overall CFB landscape under his stewardship.

Every second this guy is at the helm the program falls deeper into despair

 

[MCC_Cat]

Disagree 100%. He's establishing a great culture and the results on the field this year are miles better than last year. We are competitive and could've (should've won many would say) both UNL and Michigan. This season isn't over by any stretch and I'll keep pulling him and his team.

 

[NorthwesternFan51234]

This game is making me a nervous wreck.

Stone has got to rollout of pressure sometimes instead of backing out 15 yards.

Disagree 100%. He's establishing a great culture and the results on the field this year are miles better than last year. We are competitive and could've (should've won many would say) both UNL and Michigan. This season isn't over by any stretch and I'll keep pulling him and his team.

Couldn’t disagree more. This team and program is absolutely heading in the WRONG direction.

He can’t recruit, he can’t get his team ready play against good competition, and he’s incompetent as game manager.

There are 500 people who would take this job now that would do better than Braun.

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

Couldn’t disagree more. This team and program is absolutely heading in the WRONG direction.

He can’t recruit, he can’t get his team ready play against good competition, and he’s incompetent as game manager.

There are 500 people who would take this job now that would do better than Braun.

Let's say we lose the next 2 weeks. Tell me your top 5 of the 500 who would take the job AND get us regularly to 6-8 wins

 

[NorthwesternFan51234]

Let's say we lose the next 2 weeks. Tell me your top 5 of the 500 who would take the job AND get us regularly to 6-8 wins

Who says Braun is regularly getting us to 6 wins?

Id say it’s more likely this is a 5-7 after a 4-8 season last year.

granted-they definitely played better against a tougher schedule, but I don’t see much of a future.

1) He can’t recruit at all-most of the best players on the team are Fitz recruits.

2) This Stone Age offense he runs will never attract a top QB or WR. Until they get a passing they will never really compete

3) He’s incompetent as a game manager. If you are going to play this way (razor thin margin of error to win games) you can’t be bad here. When Northwestern was rolling Fitz/Hank were a masters at closing these games out. Braun/Lujan crap their pants every time (only reason they won at PSU was Allar getting hurt)

 

[Sheffielder]

We are basically seeing the second coming of Pat Fitzgerald - young guy thrust into the head coaching job under less-than-ideal circumstances...4-8 first season, 6-6 second season (potentially)...the parallels are actually scary.

Times have unfortunately changed. FBS head coaches don't get four years to sort things out. Recruiting is different - NIL (at least theoretically) levels the playing field much more than it was even a few short years ago. Northwestern has palatial facilities and a war chest. Expectations are and should be higher.

So if we wanted to map Braun's trajectory alongside Fitz's...what was the biggest change in year three? (the nine-win season, in case anyone reading this forgot)

 

[NorthwesternFan51234]

We are basically seeing the second coming of Pat Fitzgerald - young guy thrust into the head coaching job under less-than-ideal circumstances...4-8 first season, 6-6 second season (potentially)...the parallels are actually scary.

Times have unfortunately changed. FBS head coaches don't get four years to sort things out. Recruiting is different - NIL (at least theoretically) levels the playing field much more than it was even a few short years ago. Northwestern has palatial facilities and a war chest. Expectations are and should be higher.

So if we wanted to map Braun's trajectory alongside Fitz's...what was the biggest change in year three? (the nine-win season, in case anyone reading this forgot)

And I think Northwestern needs to move away from the Pat Fitzgerald model of keeping games close and trying to win every game on razor thin margins.

It’s time to bring an innovative/fun offense back to Evanston.

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

Who says Braun is regularly getting us to 6 wins?

Id say it’s more likely this is a 5-7 after a 4-8 season last year.

granted-they definitely played better against a tougher schedule, but I don’t see much of a future.

1) He can’t recruit at all-most of the best players on the team are Fitz recruits.

2) This Stone Age offense he runs will never attract a top QB or WR. Until they get a passing they will never really compete

3) He’s incompetent as a game manager. If you are going to play this way (razor thin margin of error to win games) you can’t be bad here. When Northwestern was rolling Fitz/Hank were a masters at closing these games out. Braun/Lujan crap their pants every time (only reason they won at PSU was Allar getting hurt)

Because you said "better" than Braun.. just name 5 guys that would come here and would be better. It's not a hard question

 

[NorthwesternFan51234]

Because you said "better" than Braun.. just name 5 guys that would come here and would be better. It's not a hard question

Take a look at the top 25 offenses in the country and find 5 OCs that would take the job.

done.

 

[Sheffielder]

Take a look at the top 25 offenses in the country and find 5 OCs that would take the job.

done.

Honestly...I don't hate this idea.

I agree that money doesn't always translate into wins when it comes to buying coaches but frankly...we've never really tried.

 

[Catmandoo78]

James Franklin
The Fleckster
Chris Klieman
Jon Sumrall
Manny Diaz
Lance Leipold
Andy Kotelnicki

Every coach on that list is getable for the right price. If Pat Ryan can build a stadium he can hire a good coach.

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

James Franklin
The Fleckster
Chris Klieman
Jon Sumrall
Manny Diaz
Lance Leipold
Andy Kotelnicki

Every coach on that list is getable for the right price. If Pat Ryan can build a stadium he can hire a good coach.

Franklin gone.

Agree about Ryan spending on coaches and players and not a white elephant stadium for use of visiting fans

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Franklin gone.

Agree about Ryan spending on coaches and players and not a white elephant stadium for use of visiting fans

Shortsighted

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

Shortsighted

Do you imply that, at some point, recruits and transfers will care less about money, team success, development/coaching, education, NFL , etc and be swayed by a stadium that cost 10x as much as Tulane? How many years, would you predict until this happens? At least the overpriced practice facility has the benefit of helping the players be better prepared and in better condition.

 

[Catmandoo78]

Shortsighted

3, 1, 8, 4, 5.

6th (West), 7th (West), 2nd (West), 16th (B1G), 12th (B1G).

What’s more shortsighted than choosing to not compete at a time when conference realignment is a major threat and the power players in the conference are trying to end even media rights payment distributions and will eventually cut out the bottom feeders with the smallest audience footprint entirely?

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Do you imply that, at some point, recruits and transfers will care less about money, team success, development/coaching, education, NFL , etc and be swayed by a stadium that cost 10x as much as Tulane? How many years, would you predict until this happens? At least the overpriced practice facility has the benefit of helping the players be better prepared and in better condition.

No I don’t claim that at all.

it is simply that the stadium was falling apart and needed to be replaced. I sat in that dump for nearly every game the last 15 years. It’s a long term investment. Coaches and players come and go.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

3, 1, 8, 4, 5.

6th (West), 7th (West), 2nd (West), 16th (B1G), 12th (B1G).

What’s more shortsighted than choosing to not compete at a time when conference realignment is a major threat and the power players in the conference are trying to end even media rights payment distributions and will eventually cut out the bottom feeders with the smallest audience footprint entirely?

Geez, and I’ve been called doom and gloom.

I am not even sure what your point is. If you believe NU currently doesn’t have enough resources to build a consistent top 25 program, I disagree. If you believe, we have not optimally used those resources, I would agree to some of that. Point is, resources are not lacking and the excuses of money or academics are getting tiresome.

 

[Catmandoo78]

Geez, and I’ve been called doom and gloom.

I am not even sure what your point is. If you believe NU currently doesn’t have enough resources to build a consistent top 25 program, I disagree. If you believe, we have not optimally used those resources, I would agree to some of that. Point is, resources are not lacking and the excuses of money or academics are getting tiresome.

My point is, as nice as a new stadium will be, a team that looks like it belongs on the field with their conference foes would be even better.

Today we don’t…. whether because we don’t have NIL or we don’t use it correctly, or we have an inferior coaching staff, or all the above.

 

[JournCat]

Kind of get that impression. His team can punch above its weight class at times, but I don’t see Northwestern ever being anything more than after thought/joke in the overall CFB landscape under his stewardship.

Every second this guy is at the helm the program falls deeper into despair

Going back to the original comparison just to disagree with it. Carmody was an indifferent recruiter (pick your favorite story, but calling in by speakerphone to Frank Kaminsky's official visit is mine), but an excellent tactician. I don't see anything close to that with Braun or Lujan. What's going to happen when the last of Fitz's recruits are gone?

 

[MCC_Cat]

My point is, as nice as a new stadium will be, a team that looks like it belongs on the field with their conference foes would be even better.

Today we don’t…. whether because we don’t have NIL or we don’t use it correctly, or we have an inferior coaching staff, or all the above.

How do we not look like we belonged on the field with Michigan? Last year totally; this year Michigan got lucky as hell to heat us. We aren't there yet for where we want to be, but we definitely can hang with all but a select few in this league, I'd argue.

 

[Catmandoo78]

How do we not look like we belonged on the field with Michigan? Last year totally; this year Michigan got lucky as hell to heat us. We aren't there yet for where we want to be, but we definitely can hang with all but a select few in this league, I'd argue.

No, frankly we were in it because Michigan kept shooting itself in the nuts over and over. Once the emotion of the game was over and I rewatched it on Sunday, we only had a chance to win because Michigan tried to give it away over and over. And we still couldn’t capitalize.

Michigan doubled our first downs
Michigan doubled our yards gained
Michigan had 4x the rushing yards with their third down RB
Michigan had half the penalties we had

Our saving Grace was Michigan had a -5 turnover margin and several of those came in the worst place on the field. And notably several of those were virtually unforced errors.

According to Bill Connelly’s S&P+ metrics (regarded as the “Kenpom of college FB”), Michigan had a postgame win expectancy of 95% and an “adjusted margin” of nearly 13 points. In other words, given the stats of the game they should’ve won by 13 points… even when accounting for their -5 turnover margin!

I’m sorry, but based on all that plus the eye test of watching the game with all emotion removed, I saw a team that was impossibly lucky to be in the position it found itself in but really was not in the same weight class. I guess we can agree to disagree on this point.

 

[Styre]

No. Braun took over a program in shambles, yes, but it had been in shambles for 1 year, not 40. Carmody, for all his faults, was clearly better and more successful than most of his predecessors, even though he didn't get NU over the NCAA hump. Braun is thus far our least-accomplished head football coach since Francis Peay.

(None of which is to say that Braun isn't capable of leading the program, getting better, etc., but there's a big difference between taking over from Pat Fitzgerald and taking over from Kevin O'Neill.)

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

No I don’t claim that at all.

it is simply that the stadium was falling apart and needed to be replaced. I sat in that dump for nearly every game the last 15 years. It’s a long term investment. Coaches and players come and go.

Agree, although I loved the old stadium. I just feel like over spending on facilities is passé. It we simply wanted a new stadium, we could have spend 75% less for something like Duke has (admittedly not great but an upgrade. )

The die is cast, but the smart thing would have beem to spend say 1/2 the amount on the stadium and half in a trust fund to help pay players and coaches.

I'd rather sit in a dump and win games. 2023 was fantastic.

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

My point is, as nice as a new stadium will be, a team that looks like it belongs on the field with their conference foes would be even better.

Today we don’t…. whether because we don’t have NIL or we don’t use it correctly, or we have an inferior coaching staff, or all the above.

Yeah Im in favor of a winning team vs fancy buildings.

Also we can't even fill our toy stadium on the lakefront. After the novelty wears off, our stadium will be again filled with red hordes that buy our tickets.

 

[NU'06er]

No. Braun took over a program in shambles, yes, but it had been in shambles for 1 year, not 40. Carmody, for all his faults, was clearly better and more successful than most of his predecessors, even though he didn't get NU over the NCAA hump. Braun is thus far our least-accomplished head football coach since Francis Peay.

(None of which is to say that Braun isn't capable of leading the program, getting better, etc., but there's a big difference between taking over from Pat Fitzgerald and taking over from Kevin O'Neill.)

Worth noting that Braun can lose out this year and still have a better winning percentage at Northwestern than Gary Barnett and Randy Walker.

I agree with the broader point that inheriting from Fitz is different than inheriting from KON, and that Barnett in particular quite obviously had major accomplishments here even if there were bad seasons mixed in.

 

[Styre]

Agree, although I loved the old stadium. I just feel like over spending on facilities is passé. It we simply wanted a new stadium, we could have spend 75% less for something like Duke has (admittedly not great but an upgrade. )

The die is cast, but the smart thing would have beem to spend say 1/2 the amount on the stadium and half in a trust fund to help pay players and coaches.

I'd rather sit in a dump and win games. 2023 was fantastic.

Why not sit in a new building and win games? It's not like the Ryans spent their last dime on the stadium.

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

Why not sit in a new building and win games? It's not like the Ryans spent their last dime on the stadium.

That's true, Styre. So...why did Jacob Schmidt have to fashion an NIL with coupons and duct tape? Why cant they write a check for a good QB every year? Imagine this offense with the Vandy QB* and a #2 receiver.

*yes I know rhe only thing he got on his SAT was drool

 

[Styre]

That's true, Styre. So...why did Jacob Schmidt have to fashion an NIL with coupons and duct tape? Why cant they write a check for a good QB every year? Imagine this offense with the Vandy QB* and a #2 receiver.

*yes I know rhe only thing he got on his SAT was drool

I mean we all know the various institutional restrictions at NU, but I haven't heard anyone say "we would have spent more money on players if not for the stadium." They wrote a pretty good check for our current QB, he just hasn't lived up to expectations. I agree that NU could absolutely be doing more, but I don't think the stadium project is the reason they aren't.

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

I mean we all know the various institutional restrictions at NU, but I haven't heard anyone say "we would have spent more money on players if not for the stadium." They wrote a pretty good check for our current QB, he just hasn't lived up to expectations. I agree that NU could absolutely be doing more, but I don't think the stadium project is the reason they aren't.

Ok let's just say I'd prefer proportionally more resources for the team vs Edifice Rex. If you can do both lavishly, fine. If not,adjust

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Ok let's just say I'd prefer proportionally more resources for the team vs Edifice Rex. If you can do both lavishly, fine. If not,adjust

It’s Ryan’s money, he can spend it how he sees fit.

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

It’s Ryan’s money, he can spend it how he sees fit.

He can, he has, and he will.

How's that working out for him? Mediocre-to-dreadful for 5 of the last 7 years*. Pretty sure he wants a successful FB program, but perhaps I'm wrong

*Obligatory COVID asterisk

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

He can, he has, and he will.

How's that working out for him? Mediocre-to-dreadful for 5 of the last 7 years*. Pretty sure he wants a successful FB program, but perhaps I'm wrong

*Obligatory COVID asterisk

It’s working out great for him. They are building things that will stand out in both the good and bad times. As I said, extremely shortsighted to chase Johnny come lately and neglect the foundation of the program.

Thus is just another of the growing fan excuses on why NU sucks. Money Money Money is a convenient one. The reality is NU has more money than most schools. More Billionaires that can step up if they feel the need. Even if they keep their hands in their pockets, we should get a top 40 recruiting class ever year with $15M. If NU can’t easily be more talented than pretty much any G5 team and as talented as almost all non P2 teams, something is structurally lacking.

Pat Ryan is not a dumb man. NU is positioned better for success now than in anytime in my life and I’m an old dude.

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

It’s working out great for him. They are building things that will stand out in both the good and bad times. As I said, extremely shortsighted to chase Johnny come lately and neglect the foundation of the program.

Thus is just another of the growing fan excuses on why NU sucks. Money Money Money is a convenient one. The reality is NU has more money than most schools. More Billionaires that can step up if they feel the need. Even if they keep their hands in their pockets, we should get a top 40 recruiting class ever year with $15M. If NU can’t easily be more talented than pretty much any G5 team and as talented as almost all non P2 teams, something is structurally lacking.

Pat Ryan is not a dumb man. NU is positioned better for success now than in anytime in my life and I’m an old dude.

I dont consider a 4X costly stadium to be a foundation. It's a waste of money that could be better spent.

And as you say at the end, something may be structurally lacking. Because the 15M ain't doing it, whereas Vandy, Tulane and Indy are.

It really comes down to 2 things - a head coach and a quarterback. They are the chef and turkey at Thanksgiving. The rest are the side dishes. Maybe Braun will develop. Sure sounds like Jacskon likes him. Maybe be will recruit better QBs.

Unless those two positions perform a lot better, like let's say between 8-12 in the B1G, we're gonna be a fight to stay out of the bottom every year.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I dont consider a 4X costly stadium to be a foundation. It's a waste of money that could be better spent.

And as you say at the end, something may be structurally lacking. Because the 15M ain't doing it, whereas Vandy, Tulane and Indy are.

It really comes down to 2 things - a head coach and a quarterback. They are the chef and turkey at Thanksgiving. The rest are the side dishes. Maybe Braun will develop. Sure sounds like Jacskon likes him. Maybe be will recruit better QBs.

Unless those two positions perform a lot better, like let's say between 8-12 in the B1G, we're gonna be a fight to stay out of the bottom every year.

When Pat Ryan committed his $500M for the stadium we had an experienced Head Coach.