Inexplainable NC State Coaching

[steelheel16]

NC State’s star pitcher Jacob Dudan tore his UCL over the weekend on his 116th pitch of the game. This was his sixth straight outing over 100 pitches, with 4 of those outings over 110 pitches. He is a projected top 2-3 round draft pick. Absolutely unacceptable coaching from the NC State staff. There is a reason you don’t throw pitchers this much, and this is Exhibit A.

 

[bluebooksandbluecups]

It’s such a terrible injury for a kid with a bright future. I don’t know that you can argue that those pitch counts are egregious or represent malpractice on the NCSTate coaching staff. I can’t see all the dates on the game log you posted, but I assume that Duran got a week off between each start. That’s a ton of rest. And if your argument is that 100 pitches is fine but 110 is too much…I’d just point out that not all pitches and pitch totals are created equal.

Throwing guys on short rest would be a bigger sin in my mind. Leaning into a certain pitch mix that stresses the elbow would be a bigger sin. I can’t completely support the idea that just because Duran threw 100-115 pitches for 8 straight weeks that his arm got injured. Knapp threw into the 100+ range a ton last year. Harvey threw some crazy pitch counts numbers about there. You just don’t know what is going to cause a kid’s arm to give out.

 

[floridahighschoolcoach]

I don't think pitch counts are as big as some people think ? What it depends on is how much is the pitcher laboring. It also depends on today's training as pitchers throw harder than ever and training with heavy weighed balls puts more pressure on the elbow and sometimes it just happens.Otani had the same issue last year.

 

[TarHeelColby10]

It’s such a terrible injury for a kid with a bright future. I don’t know that you can argue that those pitch counts are egregious or represent malpractice on the NCSTate coaching staff. I can’t see all the dates on the game log you posted, but I assume that Duran got a week off between each start. That’s a ton of rest. And if your argument is that 100 pitches is fine but 110 is too much…I’d just point out that not all pitches and pitch totals are created equal.

Throwing guys on short rest would be a bigger sin in my mind. Leaning into a certain pitch mix that stresses the elbow would be a bigger sin. I can’t completely support the idea that just because Duran threw 100-115 pitches for 8 straight weeks that his arm got injured. Knapp threw into the 100+ range a ton last year. Harvey threw some crazy pitch counts numbers about there. You just don’t know what is going to cause a kid’s arm to give out.

Dudan is having Tommy Jon for the same reason Gerrit Cole had it, he throws a baseball 100 mph. It’s not natural. The pitch the count doesn’t have much if anything to do with it with 6 days rest in between each start.

UCL and ark injuries ticked up at the same time the Velo in baseball did.

ETA: I was recruited a little Chrysler and I do not have much for the guy, but it’s not his or Avents fault. The same way it wasn’t Forbes or Gaines fault that Boaz, Matty and Jake’s elbows decided to go either

 

[goheels1117]

Throwing ~108 pitches once a week for 4 weeks is not abuse/overuse.

If anything, their mistake was underusing him last year. Because of that, there's a chance that this year's workload was too much, too quickly. But the pitch counts in a vaccum aren't bad.

His next-to-last pitch was a 98 mph fastball to get a strikeout for out #2 in the 8th. The next pitch, he dirted a slider and immediately called for the coach. There's a chance that gassing up that one fastball when he was tired is what hurt his arm. But it's also very likely it was just a matter of time.

 

[footballlover10]

Having gone through a UCL injury myself, it’s all about how he trains and stuff. The pitch counts and rest aren’t egregious, but part of it could be how he was used as a high school and middle school player that lays the groundwork for UCL issues. I also think the use of weighted balls and high velocity lead to it. That’s why in baseball forever we saw starters that throw 90-95 and relievers were the only guys that throw 96+. The grip on certain hard sliders also put the elbow in jeopardy as well.

 

[Heelium1]

It’s such a terrible injury for a kid with a bright future. I don’t know that you can argue that those pitch counts are egregious or represent malpractice on the NCSTate coaching staff. I can’t see all the dates on the game log you posted, but I assume that Duran got a week off between each start. That’s a ton of rest. And if your argument is that 100 pitches is fine but 110 is too much…I’d just point out that not all pitches and pitch totals are created equal.

Throwing guys on short rest would be a bigger sin in my mind. Leaning into a certain pitch mix that stresses the elbow would be a bigger sin. I can’t completely support the idea that just because Duran threw 100-115 pitches for 8 straight weeks that his arm got injured. Knapp threw into the 100+ range a ton last year. Harvey threw some crazy pitch counts numbers about there. You just don’t know what is going to cause a kid’s arm to give out.

Nonsense.

Desperation is what gets pitch counts consistently (8 games?) high.

If you treat a potential MLB player like a softball pitcher, you WILL break his arm.

 

[NoHighHeels]

Dudan is having Tommy Jon for the same reason Gerrit Cole had it, he throws a baseball 100 mph. It’s not natural. The pitch the count doesn’t have much if anything to do with it with 6 days rest in between each start.

UCL and ark injuries ticked up at the same time the Velo in baseball did.

ETA: I was recruited a little Chrysler and I do not have much for the guy, but it’s not his or Avents fault. The same way it wasn’t Forbes or Gaines fault that Boaz, Matty and Jake’s elbows decided to go either

I often wonder why people evolved to throw 100 mph but our ligaments weren't stronger lol

 

[TarHeelColby10]

I often wonder why people evolved to throw 100 mph but our ligaments weren't stronger lol

I often wonder why I wasn’t blessed with the 100 mph arm as well…. lol

I thought 90 was when I made it lol

 

[NoHighHeels]

I often wonder why I wasn’t blessed with the 100 mph arm as well…. lol

I thought 90 was when I made it lol

Same lol

89 was the highest I ever clocked. 90 just wasn't in the cards. Let alone 100

 

[TarHeelColby10]

Same lol

89 was the highest I ever clocked. 90 just wasn't in the cards. Let alone 100

I started doing some questionable things to get to 93-94. And that’s why a lot of these kids are having thebUCL injury.

 

[Southern01]

I started doing some questionable things to get to 93-94. And that’s why a lot of these kids are having thebUCL injury.

I started doing some questionable things to get to 93-94. And that’s why a lot of these kids are having thebUCL injury.

Would love to hear about some of those if you can share. I've often read that there are some thresholds wrt velocity that can be indicators of how hard you might eventually be able to throw.

 

[TarHeelColby10]

Would love to hear about some of those if you can share. I've often read that there are some thresholds wrt velocity that can be indicators of how hard you might eventually be able to throw.

There’s a ton of stuff I did, some were fine, some pushed limits. Weighted ball pull downs with 9 oz balls.. things of that nature I would not ever recommend, especially under 18 years old.

long toss programs, polymetric workout programs, lower half and core exercises, shoulder strength, etc.

But, honestly 95+ is mostly god given talent. Some guys are just born with it, some aren’t. I got there and got injured in the process. You can always DM me if you want me to get more in depth or get you in touch with guys to help if it’s for your kid.