Impressive

TarHeelEer

Freshman
Dec 15, 2002
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There is a lot the memo said and even more what it said by not saying anything refuting some public speculated information.

Phase 2 is going to be fun. Now we will get to find out who did what in regards to the 702 searches. Dollars to doughnuts the dossier kicked those off.
 
Aug 27, 2001
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How? Schiff didn't change the story told by Nunes. That the dossier was funded by the DNC/Clinton campaign, and that was not disclosed to the court(Nunes/Grassley). That Page supposedly met with two Ruskies, that to this day, the best we have is hearsay that McCabe said they hadn't corroborated that(McCabe supposed testimony, Comey). That the FBI utilized almost completely the dossier content for the FISA warrant, and that if other evidence was just as important, it would've been used instead(Nunes/Grassley).

Schiff even tries to say that Nunes doesn't disclose what or how Steele disclosed to Isikoff. Isikoff publicly stated his source for the Yahoo article was Steele. It's just dumb.

Where did you copy and paste these talking points from?
 

TarHeelEer

Freshman
Dec 15, 2002
89,304
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You have no clue because the FBI required substantial edit and redacting.......

Critically, Grassley and Graham assert that the Steele dossier formed the “bulk” of the FISA application, and as important, that the application “appears to contain no additional information corroborating the dossier allegations against Mr. Page,” and that the FBI “relied more heavily on Steele's credibility than on any independent verification or corroboration for his claims.”

Link
 
Aug 27, 2001
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Critically, Grassley and Graham assert that the Steele dossier formed the “bulk” of the FISA application, and as important, that the application “appears to contain no additional information corroborating the dossier allegations against Mr. Page,” and that the FBI “relied more heavily on Steele's credibility than on any independent verification or corroboration for his claims.”

Link

I read that before and it could be accurate. Who knows at this point.
 

TarHeelEer

Freshman
Dec 15, 2002
89,304
53
48
I read that before and it could be accurate. Who knows at this point.

Nunes pretty much had said the same. Schiff didn't refute it, except for stating there was other evidence. If this evidence was so compelling, why wasn't it included in the warrant, and why didn't they attempt a warrant before the dossier, if that were the case? Logic says this Dem memo is full of Schiff.
 

dave

Senior
May 29, 2001
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Nunes pretty much had said the same. Schiff didn't refute it, except for stating there was other evidence. If this evidence was so compelling, why wasn't it included in the warrant, and why didn't they attempt a warrant before the dossier, if that were the case? Logic says this Dem memo is full of Schiff.
The other evidence was the Isakoff article. That is why everyone is so incredulous.
 

dave

Senior
May 29, 2001
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If it's dossier and Isikoff only, this is the most asinine argument from the Democrats ever.
Exactly

If carters previous work with the FBI is part of it they lied about it because he worked with the FBI and the FBI found him as pretty useless.
 
Sep 6, 2013
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I think the point of the Dem memo is rebuttal, plain and simple. Obviously, the dueling memos are taking key points into a place of partisan conflict and confusion.

1) how much of the dossier was used (what parts). GOP acts like it was a center point, thus the conspiracy of the DNC and Obama literally feeding Steele who then feeds the FBI, who then feeds the FISA, who gives the permission for Obama to spy and the Dems to slow Trump’s agenda.

The Dems say it was just a portion of the dossier used, and the dossier was never the driving force to initiate investigation or the FISA green light.

2) the approvals and renewals by FISA court.
The GOP downplays these as either the FISA court being misled by the FBI, the FISA court being a part of the Deepstate, or the FISA and FBI failing to follow through on basic responsibilities.

The Dems are highlighting the fact that the approvals were made by Republican appointed judges that absolutely were not misled, and that the renewals were granted because the surveillance produced.

3) The yahoo article. The GOP says the yahoo article was used to corroborate the dossier. Further adding to the conspiracy that the dossier was the center of everything and the FBI was misleading or inadequate in their application.

The Dems are straight up calling bs on this and saying the article was used as evidence to Page’s public denial of the Moscow meeting — there was also another article mentioned in the application as additional evidence of Page’s public denial of the meetings.

The key disagreements here are crucial to the underlying motivation and integrity of the FBI and FISA court‘s actions in regard to the FISA surveillance. Did the FBI use the entire dossier, including portions completely unverified? Did the FBI mislead the court? Did the court do due diligence in the granting of the Warrant? Was the yahoo article listed as evidence of Page’s meetings in Moscow or used as evidence of his public denial?

And the biggest question for me: DID THE FISA SURVEILLANCE PRODUCE RESULTS?

If these questions could be answered without the slime of partisan bias, we might know the intention of action.


A few key points, which can’t be falsified in arguments from either side and shed a lot of light on this issue.

There was a trial of a Russian spy and Page was already involved in that and as a result of the investigation, the FBI already knew Page was slimy and corrupt. Look at the timing of that trial. The GOP screwed up the timeline in their smear memo.
FISAs were renewed repeatedly based on intelligence gathered and were renewed by four different judges who were appointed by Republican presidents. Obviously they were gathering useful information on Page.
Page lied about his trip to Russia and lied about meeting with Russians and then lied about lying. Innocent people don’t lie.
 

dave

Senior
May 29, 2001
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A few key points, which can’t be falsified in arguments from either side and shed a lot of light on this issue.

There was a trial of a Russian spy and Page was already involved in that and as a result of the investigation, the FBI already knew Page was slimy and corrupt. Look at the timing of that trial. The GOP screwed up the timeline in their smear memo.
FISAs were renewed repeatedly based on intelligence gathered and were renewed by four different judges who were appointed by Republican presidents. Obviously they were gathering useful information on Page.
Page lied about his trip to Russia and lied about meeting with Russians and then lied about lying. Innocent people don’t lie.
Page was not sleazy and corrupt. He helped the FBI get the spy. You dont know what you are talking about. Huge shocker.
 

DvlDog4WVU

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2008
47,209
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A few key points, which can’t be falsified in arguments from either side and shed a lot of light on this issue.

There was a trial of a Russian spy and Page was already involved in that and as a result of the investigation, the FBI already knew Page was slimy and corrupt. Look at the timing of that trial. The GOP screwed up the timeline in their smear memo.
FISAs were renewed repeatedly based on intelligence gathered and were renewed by four different judges who were appointed by Republican presidents. Obviously they were gathering useful information on Page.
Page lied about his trip to Russia and lied about meeting with Russians and then lied about lying. Innocent people don’t lie.
Hahahaha the trial Page was working with the FBI on? Ok.

No one has disputed the reup of the FISA or the requirements to have it reupped. I’m not sure what the fact that it was GOP appointed judges has to do with anything. Are judges supposed to apply political ideology into their decision making? That’s not what I expect out of them, but I can see it’s what you expect.

Regardless, if the original FISA was propagated by a confluence of ********, nothing else matters.
 

dave

Senior
May 29, 2001
60,598
814
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Hahahaha the trial Page was working with the FBI on? Ok.

No one has disputed the reup of the FISA or the requirements to have it reupped. I’m not sure what the fact that it was GOP appointed judges has to do with anything. Are judges supposed to apply political ideology into their decision making? That’s not what I expect out of them, but I can see it’s what you expect.

Regardless, if the original FISA was propagated by a confluence of ********, nothing else matters.
Judges make rulings based on the evidence in front of them. The system relies on prosecutors and judges being honest.
 

dave

Senior
May 29, 2001
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Sorry Kim Strassel....I realize you are an award winning writer for the New York Times but boomboom disagrees.
 

Mntneer

Sophomore
Oct 7, 2001
10,192
196
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None of this.... neither memo... changes the simple fact that high ranking officials with the FBI were at best strongly biased against Trump and therefore should have recused themselves.
 

dave

Senior
May 29, 2001
60,598
814
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None of this.... neither memo... changes the simple fact that high ranking officials with the FBI were at best strongly biased against Trump and therefore should have recused themselves.
Mccabes wife took money from the DNC. A shitload of money. End debate.
 

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,382
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4 weeks later kkkunty posts memo that states everything discussed for the last month thinking it is a gotcha moment. It is sad.

Meantime, we're still trying to figure out from @wvu2007 's excellent poll if country is a racist White person who hates Blacks and other Whites who vote Republican or a racist Black person who hates Whites and other Blacks who do?(vote Republican) We're not even sure if country knows what race he is?[smoke]
 

dave

Senior
May 29, 2001
60,598
814
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Meantime, we're still trying to figure out from @wvu2007 's excellent poll if country is a racist White person who hates Blacks and other Whites who vote Republican or a racist Black person who hates Whites and other Blacks who do?(vote Republican) We're not even sure if country knows what race he is?[smoke]
The only thing I know for a fact is that he is a racist POS.
 

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
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Months after the dossier was presented to the FISA court as rock solid "evidence" for granting a warrant to spy on Trump's people the FBI tells Trump a dossier floating around about him is "unsubstantiated"?

You know a lie isn't any good if you can't keep it straight to whoever you're telling it to?:confused:
 

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
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The only thing I know for a fact is that he is a racist POS.

Do you have be the same race you're racist to or can you switch races depending on which race you hate?
 
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atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,382
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How? Schiff didn't change the story told by Nunes. That the dossier was funded by the DNC/Clinton campaign, and that was not disclosed to the court(Nunes/Grassley). That Page supposedly met with two Ruskies, that to this day, the best we have is hearsay that McCabe said they hadn't corroborated that(McCabe supposed testimony, Comey). That the FBI utilized almost completely the dossier content for the FISA warrant, and that if other evidence was just as important, it would've been used instead(Nunes/Grassley).

Schiff even tries to say that Nunes doesn't disclose what or how Steele disclosed to Isikoff. Isikoff publicly stated his source for the Yahoo article was Steele. It's just dumb.

Curious to me how the Dems insist "other" information was used to secure that FISA warrant but it's too senstive for us to know exactly what it was. However they were against releasing the Nunes memo for the same reason and nothing in that memo revealed anything other than that dossier which was used to get the same warrant! o_O
 

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
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Exactly! On top of that they claimed the Nunes memo had information that would jeopardize national security but nothing they released in their memo does either so what exactly was it in the Nunes memo they were worried about getting out? (other than the fact the fake dossier was their main piece of evidence on the FISA appl?) Their lies are not even adding up with the ones they told to cover up the Truth from getting out!
 

dave

Senior
May 29, 2001
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814
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Exactly! On top of that they claimed the Nunes memo had information that would jeopardize national security but nothing they released in their memo does either so what exactly was it in the Nunes memo they were worried about getting out? (other than the fact the fake dossier was their main piece of evidence on the FISA appl?) Their lies are not even adding up with the ones they told to cover up the Truth from getting out!
Why do you think they never said Nunes memo was a lie but instead claimed it left out facts? They intended to make that claim and drafted a memo full of sources and methods daring the white to not release it so they could claim the White Hiuse didnt want us to see what Nunes left out. Plan failed.
 

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
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Why do you think they never said Nunes memo was a lie but instead claimed it left out facts? They intended to make that claim and drafted a memo full of sources and methods daring the white to not release it so they could claim the White Hiuse didnt want us to see what Nunes left out. Plan failed.

That's exactly what they did but funny how we still don't know what else was in their application to the FISA court for the warrant! Ans: There was nothing else!
 

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,382
5,948
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I swear that is a strange looking Hombre

Article link:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018...igation-harms-democrats-more-than-helps-them/

exceprt:
"The FBI and the Justice Department heavily relied on the Steele dossier’s uncorroborated allegations. You know this is true because, notwithstanding the claim that “only narrow use” was made “of information from Steele’s sources,” the Democrats end up acknowledging that “only narrow use” actually means significant use — as in, the dossier was the sine qua non of the warrant application"

BTW---this article is THE most well written, well explained, easily understood analysis of the entire Democrat scheme to spy on Trump and then lie about it. Highly recommended reading---long but informative.