Illini War Chant

lunker35

Junior
Jan 1, 2010
5,698
222
62
The "war chant" has now been banned leaving them with literally no identity. I have always been a supporter of Chief and the war chant they played on 3rd down or after scoring a run in baseball was pretty awesome. Apparently in the world we live that's no longer acceptable. We're at a point where they might as well completely rebrand.
 

Fitz51

Senior
Oct 21, 2008
10,115
649
0
I will comment on this without any larger comment on the whole Native American sports mascot issue:

I really liked the Illini "war chant" on third downs. I liked it even more when you would hear it like 10 times on one NU offensive drive.
 

Deeringfish

All-Conference
Jun 23, 2008
21,212
1,413
63
I will comment on this without any larger comment on the whole Native American sports mascot issue:

I really liked the Illini "war chant" on third downs. I liked it even more when you would hear it like 10 times on one NU offensive drive.

I think maybe they could have saved this mascot if they had promoted it properly. The Chief was a pretty regal character. If I understand the objections, it is bad stereotyping. The war chant probably should have been the first thing to go. If I remember correctly, they had an opportunity to have an actual Native American student be the Chief one time and chose a white guy. There should have been relationship built with the local first nations people asking them to direct the image and offering a scholarship available only to Native Americans to the person who would be Chief. Change the dance and music to something honorable and authentic.
Maybe they tried this and the First Nations felt it could never be done with dignity. I don't know but instead of controlling the First Nations Narrative, it is being erased slowly as many things are renamed and narrative focuses so title on the atrocities that we don't know much about the culture, which in some cases was very advanced and noble, that is being lost.

Did you know that the Cahokia Pyramid in Illinois is among the latest in the world?
“The largest of these mounds, Monk’s Mound covers 16 acres; it rests on a base 1,037 feet long and 790 feet wide, with a total volume of approximately 21,690,000 cubic feet, a base and total volume greater than that of the pyramid of Khufu, the largest in Egypt. In all the world, only the pyramids at Cholula and Teotihuacan in central Mexico surpass the Cahokia pyramid in size and total volume. No other structure in the United States approached the size of the Cahokia pyramid until the building of airplane hangars, the Pentagon, and skyscrapers in the twentieth century.” [1]
 

GECat2

Sophomore
Oct 8, 2012
1,928
174
63
Seriously, I believe Illinois' new mascot should be a bald eunuch with an orange I painted on his head. Before each game he can do a fan dance at the 50 yard line to fire up the crowd. That should thrill the University President and Board.
 

FloridAlum

Senior
May 29, 2001
16,227
588
0
I think that Illinois was considering only playing the war chant when they scored a touchdown.Then they realized that playing it maybe once every other game the band would get rusty, so they decided to discontinue all together.
 

Pulmocat

Redshirt
Aug 17, 2003
2,921
15
38
I think maybe they could have saved this mascot if they had promoted it properly. The Chief was a pretty regal character. If I understand the objections, it is bad stereotyping. The war chant probably should have been the first thing to go. If I remember correctly, they had an opportunity to have an actual Native American student be the Chief one time and chose a white guy. There should have been relationship built with the local first nations people asking them to direct the image and offering a scholarship available only to Native Americans to the person who would be Chief. Change the dance and music to something honorable and authentic.
Maybe they tried this and the First Nations felt it could never be done with dignity. I don't know but instead of controlling the First Nations Narrative, it is being erased slowly as many things are renamed and narrative focuses so title on the atrocities that we don't know much about the culture, which in some cases was very advanced and noble, that is being lost.

Did you know that the Cahokia Pyramid in Illinois is among the latest in the world?
“The largest of these mounds, Monk’s Mound covers 16 acres; it rests on a base 1,037 feet long and 790 feet wide, with a total volume of approximately 21,690,000 cubic feet, a base and total volume greater than that of the pyramid of Khufu, the largest in Egypt. In all the world, only the pyramids at Cholula and Teotihuacan in central Mexico surpass the Cahokia pyramid in size and total volume. No other structure in the United States approached the size of the Cahokia pyramid until the building of airplane hangars, the Pentagon, and skyscrapers in the twentieth century.” [1]

It amazes me that nothing is mentioned of this great North American civilization in Illinois high school education. I think there were something like 35 thousand residents in the city in around 700 ad. A city population that wasn't surpassed in N America until the 1800s when Philadelphia took the title.

The mounds were a massive excavation. A historic Illinois treasure that rivals the importance of Mazon Creek near Braidwood IL
 

The_Waterboy

Freshman
May 29, 2001
2,490
61
0
Although I have great disdain for the Ill-Whine-I in general; I've always believed that the Chief was a respectful, if not somewhat flawed characterization of the First Nations' native populations who lived in and around the Illinois landscape. IMHO, the Ill-Annoy war chant at sporting events might have been poor choice in a representative battle cry but I felt it was voiced always with honor & taste by Ill-Whine-I fans. I was impressed especially with the dance of the Chief before a home football game and felt that it showed respectful athleticism by the student performer - except when he stood at the end of the dance with arms crossed in front of his chest - a stereotype pose coined by the white man that truly was never based on any native peoples' tradition (similar to the "How" greeting depicted in many an old Hollywood Western film).

I guess I long for a simpler, more respectful time when the Chief was an honored U of I tradition. But then again, I'm not of Native American descent; and consequently, I don't have the perspective of disgrace and derision that many First Nations peoples felt that the Chief represented.
 
Last edited:

Hungry Jack

All-Conference
Nov 17, 2008
37,682
3,227
67
I always like the Chief and the dance. Agree that Illinois missed an opportunity to make the Chief a positive, meaningful and authentic symbol of the First Nation ideal in a modern world. Long live the Chief.
 

ricko6543211

Junior
Nov 15, 2006
4,231
229
47
I will comment on this without any larger comment on the whole Native American sports mascot issue:

I really liked the Illini "war chant" on third downs. I liked it even more when you would hear it like 10 times on one NU offensive drive.
Hahahaha great answer
 

ricko6543211

Junior
Nov 15, 2006
4,231
229
47
Although I have great disdain for the Ill-Whine-I in general; I've always believed that the Chief was a respectful, if not somewhat flawed characterization of the First Nations' native populations who lived in and around the Illinois landscape. IMHO, the Ill-Annoy war chant at sporting events might have been poor choice in a representative battle cry but I felt it was voiced always with honor & taste by Ill-Whine-I fans. I was impressed especially with the dance of the Chief before a home football game and felt that it showed respectful athleticism by the student performer - except when he stood at the end of the dance with arms crossed in front of his chest - a stereotype pose coined by the white man that truly was never based on any native peoples' tradition (similar to the "How" greeting depicted in many an old Hollywood Western film).

I guess I long for a simpler, more respectful time when the Chief was an honored U of I tradition. But then again, I'm not of Native American descent; and consequently. I don't have the perspective of disgrace and derision that many First Nations peoples felt that the Chief represented.
Well said. And the problem is that it was never the native people who were protesting it, it was a couple random lawyers that had almost 0 to do with them. The Native Americans supported the dance.

But I don't want to divert into rant board territory. The joke above said it best...
 

willycat

Junior
Jan 11, 2005
21,448
318
0
Although I have great disdain for the Ill-Whine-I in general; I've always believed that the Chief was a respectful, if not somewhat flawed characterization of the First Nations' native populations who lived in and around the Illinois landscape. IMHO, the Ill-Annoy war chant at sporting events might have been poor choice in a representative battle cry but I felt it was voiced always with honor & taste by Ill-Whine-I fans. I was impressed especially with the dance of the Chief before a home football game and felt that it showed respectful athleticism by the student performer - except when he stood at the end of the dance with arms crossed in front of his chest - a stereotype pose coined by the white man that truly was never based on any native peoples' tradition (similar to the "How" greeting depicted in many an old Hollywood Western film).

I guess I long for a simpler, more respectful time when the Chief was an honored U of I tradition. But then again, I'm not of Native American descent; and consequently. I don't have the perspective of disgrace and derision that many First Nations peoples felt that the Chief represented.
Sorry have to disagree because the chief was presented as a cartoon-like racist, mascot. What did you think of the splits that American Indian did, during that "authentic" war dance?
 

willycat

Junior
Jan 11, 2005
21,448
318
0
I always like the Chief and the dance. Agree that Illinois missed an opportunity to make the Chief a positive, meaningful and authentic symbol of the First Nation ideal in a modern world. Long live the Chief.
Guess you would love a dancing Rabbi or black faced minstrel also.
 

willycat

Junior
Jan 11, 2005
21,448
318
0
Well said. And the problem is that it was never the native people who were protesting it, it was a couple random lawyers that had almost 0 to do with them. The Native Americans supported the dance.

But I don't want to divert into rant board territory. The joke above said it best...
Actually that's not true. Racist symbols should not be any part of intended entertainment.
 

Deeringfish

All-Conference
Jun 23, 2008
21,212
1,413
63
Sorry have to disagree because the chief was presented as a cartoon-like racist, mascot. What did you think of the splits that American Indian did, during that "authentic" war dance?
He definitely needed cleaning up. Many parts of the dance and costume were western inventions. I just think it could've been done. What do I care, I'm not an Illinois fan, let them lose their identity.
 

Gladeskat

All-Conference
Feb 16, 2004
116,627
1,823
113
Well said. And the problem is that it was never the native people who were protesting it, it was a couple random lawyers that had almost 0 to do with them. The Native Americans supported the dance.

But I don't want to divert into rant board territory. The joke above said it best...

I have never read that Native peoples liked the Chief and supported the dance. My understanding is that they were very much against the Chief. The Chief's headdress was a plains indians (Sioux) headdress. The Illini were woodlands indians. The dance was representative of white boogie-woogie culture not first nations culture.
 

kaTNap

Junior
Nov 6, 2005
2,663
268
83
The "war chant" has now been banned leaving them with literally no identity. I have always been a supporter of Chief and the war chant they played on 3rd down or after scoring a run in baseball was pretty awesome. Apparently in the world we live that's no longer acceptable. We're at a point where they might as well completely rebrand.

I liked the suggestions for team names in the comments in the Trib story:

The U of Illinois Fighting Madigans
The U of Illinois Indicted Governors
The U of Illinois Melting Snowflakes
The U of Illinois Marshmallows
 

JournCat

Junior
Aug 4, 2009
4,516
249
63
I liked the suggestions for team names in the comments in the Trib story:

The U of Illinois Fighting Madigans
The U of Illinois Indicted Governors
The U of Illinois Melting Snowflakes
The U of Illinois Marshmallows

We want to be careful about the third one there given where Blago went to school ...
 

its_the_sauce

Junior
May 29, 2001
4,543
336
83
If they would have simply changed the name ten years ago it would be forgotten and no one would care. Haven't heard of many Marquette fans bemoaning the loss of "Warriors" lately.
 

Alaskawildkat

Senior
Dec 28, 2005
20,803
553
113
On the other hand the sooner the annoying "Tomahawk Chop" goes away the happier I will be. Obviously not a Braves or Seminoles fan.
 

willycat

Junior
Jan 11, 2005
21,448
318
0
On the other hand the sooner the annoying "Tomahawk Chop" goes away the happier I will be. Obviously not a Braves or Seminoles fan.
Agree. Can't believe that the Braves and the Redskins get away with using these racial slurs, especially in time we are now living in.
 

Windy City Cat Fan

Sophomore
May 29, 2001
4,894
184
0
Agree. Can't believe that the Braves and the Redskins get away with using these racial slurs, especially in time we are now living in.
Redskins do get a lot of heat, as do the Cleveland Indians, Braves and FSU not so much. I think though there is a big difference between Redskins and the cartoonish Indians and the Seminoles.
 

hdhntr1

All-Conference
Sep 5, 2006
37,867
1,325
113
The "war chant" has now been banned leaving them with literally no identity. I have always been a supporter of Chief and the war chant they played on 3rd down or after scoring a run in baseball was pretty awesome. Apparently in the world we live that's no longer acceptable. We're at a point where they might as well completely rebrand.
The Illini Crickets.. Hard to imagine that will offend anyone and it resonates with the sounds coming from Chambana
 

willycat

Junior
Jan 11, 2005
21,448
318
0
Redskins do get a lot of heat, as do the Cleveland Indians, Braves and FSU not so much. I think though there is a big difference between Redskins and the cartoonish Indians and the Seminoles.
How about that tomahawk chop? Just maybe the Atlanta Front Office people just order the organist to stop playing the accompanying music. They could also put out a informative program, noting just how racist this is.
 

Windy City Cat Fan

Sophomore
May 29, 2001
4,894
184
0
How about that tomahawk chop? Just maybe the Atlanta Front Office people just order the organist to stop playing the accompanying music. They could also put out a informative program, noting just how racist this is.
Agree with you. To someone's point above, if it's offensive just change it and move on like Marquette, St. John's, Miami OH etc. people will get over it
 

chitownUofI05

Sophomore
Jan 13, 2011
6,734
195
0
If they would have simply changed the name ten years ago it would be forgotten and no one would care. Haven't heard of many Marquette fans bemoaning the loss of "Warriors" lately.

Considering "Fighting Illini" refers to Illinoisans who fought in World War I, why would we change our name...?
 

its_the_sauce

Junior
May 29, 2001
4,543
336
83
Where the hell did you dig that tale up?

Of course why wouldn't their mascot be a doughboy???

In all seriousness/fairness possibly he is confused with the Black Hawks who did actually take their name from an infantry division in WW1 (the division's name obviously had Native American roots).
 

Gladeskat

All-Conference
Feb 16, 2004
116,627
1,823
113
Actually it was used as a fund raising tool to build the new stadium.

A fund raising tool for a stadium that explicitly memorializes students who fought and died in WWI. Therefore, it's reasonable to assume the "fighting Illini" refers to these students.
 

lunker35

Junior
Jan 1, 2010
5,698
222
62
This war chant is simply drums and brass. It's no worse than the Katy Perry they are going to play instead. Get rid of the Spartians, because they're offensive to the Greeks. Get rid of the ND leprechaun because it's offensive to the Irish. I demand Netflix takes off Moana because it's offensive to people in Tahiti. Our society has gone too far with this ridiculousness.
 

mikewebb68

Senior
Oct 24, 2009
9,811
501
113
Given what probably will be the Illini attendance at football games this year, if Illinois gets rid of its War Chant and no one is there to hear them get rid of it, did they really get rid of it?
 

Jaycg15

Heisman
Jul 17, 2008
72,308
12,982
0
Considering "Fighting Illini" refers to Illinoisans who fought in World War I, why would we change our name...?

Your own university archives appear not to have heard of your theory:

https://archives.library.illinois.edu/features/illini.php
It looks like you didn't even bother reading the link you posted. The paragraph discussing building the stadium for your fighting Illini in 1921 as the first known usage for athletics is a good spot to look.

This is common knowledge for alumnus and fans.