If you gave Tom Izzo...

[bucsrule8872]

With the original question, it depends on what you believe about Cal and the player he gets.

One school of thought is that Cal gets the most talent and if other coaches got as much talent as he did, they could win more games because they are better coaches. Cal just rolls the balls out and beats people with superior talent. So give Izzo the same talent and he would do better because he is the better coach. It is assumed that Izzo (or some other coach) would still get these kids to the NBA in a year, just like Cal does, because Cal doesn't really do anything to develop them. Cal is nothing special, he just gets the most talent, which is why he wins.

The other school of thought is that Cal has to start with a new team, led by mostly Freshmen and some Sophomores, and has to develop a team in one season whereas other coaches need 2 or 3 seasons at least to get guys ready to be contenders. The idea here is that Cal gets guys ready more quickly than coaches like Izzo. This is why guys like Izzo do not produce many OAD players. Even McD's AA's like Harris, Payne, and Dawson have had to stay multiple years in order for Izzo to develop them and they still do little to nothing in the pros. Would guys like Bledsoe, Young, and Goodwin been OAD playing for Izzo? Probably not. Cal gets them ready to perform on the college level and pro level much more quickly than other coaches like Izzo.

So I guess it's up to each of us to decide.

Here's a question for you: what would Cal do if he could get players to stay four years like Izzo?

 

[DwayneMeighan]

Izzo couldn't do what Cal does. His personality, nor his coaching style are built for it. Getting such talented freshman to play together the way Cal has (especially on defense) is much, much harder than coaching a team full of upperclassmen that are already accustomed to the college game and have been playing in the same system for 3-4 years. Izzo has even mentioned this himself, admitting that he probably doesn't have the patience to put up with it.

For someone to think that Cal's job is easier just because he has more talent, without taking in to account what players actually possess that talent, shows how much of a friggin moron they really are. What Cal does at UK is ten times harder than what Izzo does at MSU.

 

[hoodro]

the talent that Cal has had the past six years, what would be his results in your opinion?

If you gave Cal 3-4 years with his entire team together like Izzo gets, what would be his results in your opinion.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

I remember the two long stretches in UK history where we didn't go to a Final Four from '84 to '93 and from '98 to '11. Those periods of time sucked. They felt like slow death.

I personally don't want to ever go back to them as a fan of my beloved Wildcats.

I wonder what Cut Nets was thinking back in those days?

 

[revcort]

Cut Nets, your agenda is so painfully obvious, it's ridiculous. You're a broken record. Here's a short answer. We don't have a clue.

Nobody can answer this question. It's purely hypothetical. If any of those guys could recruit like Calipari, we'd know the answer. But they can't.

An even shorter answer: John Calipari is the coach at the University of Kentucky. If you hate him, you should find another team to cheer for.

That way, you could brag about how the coach of your new team is able to get more out of his inferior talent than Calipari could. Imagine how great you'd feel, being able to brag about the greatness of your coach. It seems the most important thing to you. You'd feel better and so would we. We wouldn't even be upset. We promise.

 

[uk_king_cat2]

Win 3 Natty's and no NIT...

 

[Untouchables22]

The format is exciting and crazy, and it is the second biggest ad draw in American sports - why? Because CBB is so huge in America? No - because it's GD insane and unpredictable, and no other level of basketball uses such a flawed/crazy/exciting format to pick a champion.

Amen brother.....preach to the temple of college basketball. Those two first days of the tournament (along with the bowl games on New Year's day) are always in my opinion the best sporting days of the year. Always take off work and just hang out at a sports bar with some friends and enjoy the madness all day long!!!

 

[26MichaelUK]

I remember the two long stretches in UK history where we didn't go to a Final Four from '84 to '93 and from '98 to '11. Those periods of time sucked. They felt like slow death.

I personally don't want to ever go back to them as a fan of my beloved Wildcats.

I wonder what Cut Nets was thinking back in those days?

Exactly SOS. We've been to four freaking final fours in 5 years which is insane. The next closest coach in the Calipari era has 2. Before Cal we were mired in our longest final four drought in our history. Unbelievably, now people liking Cutnuts are taking them for granted.

 

[LadyCaytIL]

If MSU lands Jackson like they think they will , then we will all find out a one year scenario with their talented class.

 

[railroadkat_1]

More football on the hardwood and Izzo crying more than coach K.

 

[bucsrule8872]

If MSU lands Jackson like they think they will , then we will all find out a one year scenario with their talented class.

I wonder if Izzo will start all five Freshmen in that situation?

They would probably be the five best players on the team.

Davis, Harris, and Nairn probably start over the new guys, though. Jackson and Bridges start with them most likely with Winston, Langford, and Ward off the bench.

Would be neat to see our five Freshmen start and their five Freshmen start against each other in the Champions Classic next season.

 

[Fitch44]

Izzo tears the head off experienced juniors and seniors who screw up. He will have a coronary if he has to deal with 4 or 5 freshman on the court at one time. I would want it just for the entertainment value.

 

[Bluegrassking]

I NC, maybe 2 FF, and multiple team turmoils but GIVE would have to be dead on target because it ain't likely to happen any other way.

 

[rabidcatfan]

Just a guess, but I'd go with 4 Final Fours and 1 National Championship, just like Cal. He's a helluva coach and I think I could say without a shadow of a doubt that he'd have accomplished what Cal has here. The mans been to 9 Elite Eights, 7 Final Fours, and is 1-1 in the National Championship game in 20 seasons as the Spartans coach. That's a Final Four in nearly 1 out of every 3 seasons. He may have even been able to take the John Wall team all the way and won it all last year too, who knows, or maybe he doesn't go to any Final Fours with Cal's teams...anything can happen in College Basketball, nothing is a given.

 

[blubo]

the talent that Cal has had the past six years, what would be his results in your opinion?

if god had given my aunt sally a pair of 'nads she'd be my uncle.

 

[Brooklyncats]

People forget what Cal accomplished at UMass and Memphis.

 

[cal=8]

You should be thankful we have coach Cal. First off we would never have landed the players we have if Frizizzo was our coach. That is all..

 

[PenetrateAndScore]

This might be the funniest post yet. How can you be certain of a hypothetical situation?

Because I'm psychic and able to peer into alternate dimensions of reality.

By the way, I would avoid driving your car on the 22nd this month.

 

[KWilt43atbuzz]

Cut...Izzo is good at getting to the FF but not so much winning it.
To really pizz off the masses you should have said K.

 

[nookam]

Injuries played a big part in losses. Willie against UConn, could have made life hell for the guards and rim protection. Poythress last season could have stopped Decker?

 

[kyjeff1]

If you gave Cal 3-4 years with his entire team together like Izzo gets, what would be his results in your opinion.

Now, now Hoodro, lets not let facts and common sense get in the way of someone's agenda. Where are your manners?

 

[Big_Blue79]

because experience and maturity (both physical and mental) is so critical.

So much this. So many are fixated on "talent," and they mean it as upside, athletic potential, or both. What matters to winning college games is production, which is a combination of "talent" (hate that word), skill, and maturity (physical and mental). There's a reason players almost always peak from ~26-29. But people like to dis Cal by saying he has the most "talent," ignoring that experience and skill matter just as much.

 

[VAWildcat15]

If only there was a way to know what John Calipari could do at a smaller school without the resources of Kentucky. If he had ever coached at a mid-major (say, Rhode Island or Massachusetts) we might truly be able to see what he can do when he has less to work with. Heck, even a city school with less tradition (maybe Cincinnati, or Memphis) could give us a hint of what he can do.

 

[Big_Blue79]

With the original question, it depends on what you believe about Cal and the player he gets.

One school of thought is that Cal gets the most talent and if other coaches got as much talent as he did, they could win more games because they are better coaches. Cal just rolls the balls out and beats people with superior talent. So give Izzo the same talent and he would do better because he is the better coach. It is assumed that Izzo (or some other coach) would still get these kids to the NBA in a year, just like Cal does, because Cal doesn't really do anything to develop them. Cal is nothing special, he just gets the most talent, which is why he wins.

The other school of thought is that Cal has to start with a new team, led by mostly Freshmen and some Sophomores, and has to develop a team in one season whereas other coaches need 2 or 3 seasons at least to get guys ready to be contenders. The idea here is that Cal gets guys ready more quickly than coaches like Izzo. This is why guys like Izzo do not produce many OAD players. Even McD's AA's like Harris, Payne, and Dawson have had to stay multiple years in order for Izzo to develop them and they still do little to nothing in the pros. Would guys like Bledsoe, Young, and Goodwin been OAD playing for Izzo? Probably not. Cal gets them ready to perform on the college level and pro level much more quickly than other coaches like Izzo.

So I guess it's up to each of us to decide.

Here's a question for you: what would Cal do if he could get players to stay four years like Izzo?

Define talent, then take that definition and try to apply it to what wins basketball games. Some people use it as a proxy for upside or athletic potential. Some use it as a proxy for current production. Most mean to use it as current production (i.e. you should win with all that talent), but they evaluate it as potential (X amount of lottery picks). And yet others use it to mean "best" while ignoring the value of skill and the normal aging/learning curve.

Just curious how others define it. I always see the "Cal's got the most talent" argument put out there (not necessarily by you, usually by those denigrating his coaching). I think most mean it as potential.

 

[STL_Cat]

About that ...

 

[NCukcat62]

Lol at cut nets

 

[mebeblue2]

the talent that Cal has had the past six years, what would be his results in your opinion?

he would choke

 

[Mime-Is-Money]

I fn love this new format

 

[STL_Cat]

I fn love this new format

Agreed. Took about 2 minutes for me to search and bump this post.

 

[BlueWorldOrder74]

Btt

 

[gracetoyou]

the talent that Cal has had the past six years, what would be his results in your opinion?

Probably not what you'd expect.

We'll find out next year.

BTW...Your a jerk! Cal is better than Pitino

 

[jarms24]

About that ...

10/10 somebody buy this man a beer. Helluva bump!

 

[TeoJ]

Hypothetical questions and conjecture are not research. To suggest otherwise is nonsensical. You may want to hold off on saying this discussion is over his head.

.That can't be right,he is cut-nets

 

[Fitch44]

Man cut nets is so upset with this upset.
Hehe.

 

[bigbluelou]

If my aunt had a d!@# she'd be my uncle.

 

[TheOtherGreatOne]

One of Cal's fortes is getting so many potential prima donnas to come together as a team. As many analysts have observed, that's far from easy. I doubt whether Izzo could effectively handle so many (h.s.) superstars.

I do not believe Izzo could deal with with the personalities that come with ellete talent. if he could he would recruit these type players. Izzo is a dictator type coach and this does not work with great athletes these days

 

[WildMoon]

He probably ran away.

I haven't seen him in a while. He's a pretty ignorant, but when there's so many bumps proving him wrong....

I think he got the message.

 

[Jkwo_rivals113955]

He probably ran away.

I haven't seen him in a while. He's a pretty ignorant, but when there's so many bumps proving him wrong....

I think he got the message.

Oh please. We may not see him for a while, true - We could win this championship and then plow through our first 20 games of next season undefeated...

...then we lose game #21, he'll be back not 30 seconds after the buzzer, talking about how a homeless guy off the street would do better with this talent than Cal.

And I'm not exaggerating. I literally think if we won this championship, then won our first 20 games, he would not post until that next loss, at which point he would start a thread bitching about Cal. I would almost guarantee it, actually.

 

[STL_Cat]

Izzo would probably have 6 national championships. 240-0.

274-1.

 

[WildMoon]

Oh please. We may not see him for a while, true - We could win this championship and then plow through our first 20 games of next season undefeated...

...then we lose game #21, he'll be back not 30 seconds after the buzzer, talking about how a homeless guy off the street would do better with this talent than Cal.

And I'm not exaggerating. I literally think if we won this championship, then won our first 20 games, he would not post until that next loss, at which point he would start a thread bitching about Cal. I would almost guarantee it, actually.

and i agree. :-D