I don't understand

[baltimorened]

Ok, last night the statement " stand If you believe the first duty of the US government is to protect American citizens not illegal aliens"...all republicans stand, and no democrats stand.

Now I understand there is a political divide, but could some of those who are on the left side please explain the logic of the democrat's position?

This is serious question. I just don't understand how protecting American citizens first is even debatable. What am I missing?

 

[dpic73]

Ok, last night the statement " stand If you believe the first duty of the US government is to protect American citizens not illegal aliens"...all republicans stand, and no democrats stand.

Now I understand there is a political divide, but could some of those who are on the left side please explain the logic of the democrat's position?

This is serious question. I just don't understand how protecting American citizens first is even debatable. What am I missing?

If you come out and tell multiple lies to the nation and say Democrats are crazy, can't win elections unless they cheat and they're destroying our country, while half the room claps, dont be surprised if they don't performatively clap like seals when you ask anyone against killing puppies to stand.

 

[FLaw47]

Ok, last night the statement " stand If you believe the first duty of the US government is to protect American citizens not illegal aliens"...all republicans stand, and no democrats stand.

Now I understand there is a political divide, but could some of those who are on the left side please explain the logic of the democrat's position?

This is serious question. I just don't understand how protecting American citizens first is even debatable. What am I missing?

I think this is one of those sophomoric stunts you weren't happy about in your other SOTU thread, yeah?

 

[baltimorened]

If you come out and tell multiple lies to the nation and say Democrats are crazy, can't win elections unless they cheat and they're destroying our country, while half the room claps, dont be surprised if they don't performatively clap like seals when you ask anyone against killing puppies to stand.

that sounds good, but really doesn't address the question. The question Trump asked was straightforward, no caveats, no BS, just a simple statement. Why would not one democrat stand...not one?

Do they really believe the opposite of trump's question?

You can normally be straight with your opinions. Do democrats really not believe that the first responsibility is to protect American citizens? Are these elected officials so blinded by anything trump that they don't have the moral courage to make an individual decision?

 

[FLaw47]

that sounds good, but really doesn't address the question. The question Trump asked was straightforward, no caveats, no BS, just a simple statement. Why would not one democrat stand...not one?

Do they really believe the opposite of trump's question?

You can normally be straight with your opinions. Do democrats really not believe that the first responsibility is to protect American citizens? Are these elected officials so blinded by anything trump that they don't have the moral courage to make an individual decision?

I don't care for Family Guy anymore and I doubt you washed it but there was a scene where Brian (a dog) was on trial for something and the lawyer said "which better describes you, 'problematic alcoholic' or 'African American habedasher'?"

Same sort of deal.

 

[baltimorened]

I think this is one of those sophomoric stunts you weren't happy about in your other SOTU thread, yeah?

I don't know. For some reason it just hit me that what I would have perceived as a basic responsibility of our elected officials - protect the American citizens- - was not agreed to by the entirety of one of our political parties.

I understand groupthink, but not one democrat believed that the government's primarily responsibility was protection of the citizenry? What do they believe is the primary job of government?

 

[dpic73]

that sounds good, but really doesn't address the question. The question Trump asked was straightforward, no caveats, no BS, just a simple statement. Why would not one democrat stand...not one?

Do they really believe the opposite of trump's question?

You can normally be straight with your opinions. Do democrats really not believe that the first responsibility is to protect American citizens? Are these elected officials so blinded by anything trump that they don't have the moral courage to make an individual decision?

Of course they believe that citizens come first but asking everyone to stand after you've repeatedly slandered that half of the room is all about theatrics and they weren't willing to play his games. They should have all walked out long before he had a chance to ask that obvious question.

 

[fatpiggy]

I don't know. For some reason it just hit me that what I would have perceived as a basic responsibility of our elected officials - protect the American citizens- - was not agreed to by the entirety of one of our political parties.

I understand groupthink, but not one democrat believed that the government's primarily responsibility was protection of the citizenry? What do they believe is the primary job of government?

It just shows that they childishly oppose ANYTHING Trump does no matter the issue. They don’t want to give him a win, no matter how good for the county it may be.

their base wants them to hold strong, while the undecided, want people to meet in the middle ground. The left is sticking to their guns and pandering to the far left after they lost a landslide election. Hell of a strategy.

 

[dpic73]

It just shows that they childishly oppose ANYTHING Trump does no matter the issue. They don’t want to give him a win, no matter how good for the county it may be.

their base wants them to hold strong, while the undecided, want people to meet in the middle ground. The left is sticking to their guns and pandering to the far left after they lost a landslide election. Hell of a strategy.

Oh pleez pig, if Obama used his SOTU to call Repubs a bunch of cheaters who are destroying our country, how would they react if he then asked them to stand, rub their tummies and scream real loud if they believe humans are better than warthogs?

 

[TigerGrowls]

Oh pleez pig, if Obama used his SOTU to call Repubs a bunch of cheaters who are destroying our country, how would they react if he then asked them to stand, rub their tummies and scream real loud if they believe humans are better than warthogs?

Dpic still picking the burrs from that massive butt whooping that President Trump put on the lib hive.

 

[MTTiger19]

Ok, last night the statement " stand If you believe the first duty of the US government is to protect American citizens not illegal aliens"...all republicans stand, and no democrats stand.

Now I understand there is a political divide, but could some of those who are on the left side please explain the logic of the democrat's position?

This is serious question. I just don't understand how protecting American citizens first is even debatable. What am I missing?

I would say that about 75% of them are petulant, entitled children. What did you expect honestly? They’d prefer America crumble into ashes before they agreed with Trump, even something as simple as just standing up for the citizens.

 

[MTTiger19]

I don't care for Family Guy anymore and I doubt you washed it but there was a scene where Brian (a dog) was on trial for something and the lawyer said "which better describes you, 'problematic alcoholic' or 'African American habedasher'?"

Same sort of deal.

What a terrible comparison.

 

[dpic73]

Dpic still picking the burrs from that massive butt whooping that President Trump put on the lib hive.

No sir, I was embarrassed for our country but I look forward to next year when there will be a LOT less Republicans in that room. That will be what an actual butt whooping looks like.

 

[TigerGrowls]

No sir, I was embarrassed for our country but I look forward to next year when there will be a LOT less Republicans in that room. That will be what an actual butt whooping looks like.

Ok we have you on record.

 

[FLaw47]

I don't know. For some reason it just hit me that what I would have perceived as a basic responsibility of our elected officials - protect the American citizens- - was not agreed to by the entirety of one of our political parties.

I understand groupthink, but not one democrat believed that the government's primarily responsibility was protection of the citizenry? What do they believe is the primary job of government?

So a few points here:

• People tend to resent false choices, which is this
• The use of the term "illegal" in the line was purposefully divisive. Do you think that they would have included the line if they thought Democrats would have just stood up and clapped? I don't. To take it a step further, if Trump had included the term "wetback" in front of "illegals", would you still think everyone should have clapped?
• The oath Congress takes doesn't discuss citizens at all. It's to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies. Case law is very clear that the bulk of Constitutional protections apply to citizens and "illegals" equally (so again it's a false choice)
• I'm admittedly not as practiced in the use of intentionally divisive language as Trump and your comrades on this board are (it's a key tenet of mine that people should not be disparaged for immutable characteristics) so I'm at a disadvantage here. If Obama had said "please stand if you agree that we should have religious freedom in this country and not empower bitter people, clinging to their guns and religion, protecting catholic pederasts", do you think the GOP should have clapped?

 

[baltimorened]

I don't care for Family Guy anymore and I doubt you washed it but there was a scene where Brian (a dog) was on trial for something and the lawyer said "which better describes you, 'problematic alcoholic' or 'African American habedasher'?"

Same sort of deal.

I don't see it that way at all. In my mind, the number 1 priority for government is protection of the homeland and it's citizenry. That's about as basic as it gets

 

[FLaw47]

@baltimorened, please see my earlier post as it was my best and most earnest:


So a few points here:

• People tend to resent false choices, which is this
• The use of the term "illegal" in the line was purposefully divisive. Do you think that they would have included the line if they thought Democrats would have just stood up and clapped? I don't. To take it a step further, if Trump had included the term "wetback" in front of "illegals", would you still think everyone should have clapped?
• The oath Congress takes doesn't discuss citizens at all. It's to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies. Case law is very clear that the bulk of Constitutional protections apply to citizens and "illegals" equally (so again it's a false choice)
• I'm admittedly not as practiced in the use of intentionally divisive language as Trump and your comrades on this board are (it's a key tenet of mine that people should not be disparaged for immutable characteristics) so I'm at a disadvantage here. If Obama had said "please stand if you agree that we should have religious freedom in this country and not empower bitter people, clinging to their guns and religion, protecting catholic pederasts", do you think the GOP should have clapped?

 

[JohnHughsPartner]

Ok, last night the statement " stand If you believe the first duty of the US government is to protect American citizens not illegal aliens"...all republicans stand, and no democrats stand.

Now I understand there is a political divide, but could some of those who are on the left side please explain the logic of the democrat's position?

This is serious question. I just don't understand how protecting American citizens first is even debatable. What am I missing?

It’s shows they hate Trump more than they love their country. It’s that easy

 

[JohnHughsPartner]

Let’s not forget about this one


Evil phucks

 

[SDTiger9]

Ok, last night the statement " stand If you believe the first duty of the US government is to protect American citizens not illegal aliens"...all republicans stand, and no democrats stand.

Now I understand there is a political divide, but could some of those who are on the left side please explain the logic of the democrat's position?

This is serious question. I just don't understand how protecting American citizens first is even debatable. What am I missing?

You are 100% correct. But I’d argue even beyond illegals that American citizens are NOT the priority. The amount of funding used abroad that could be protecting American citizens is enormous. AND ITS OUR MONEY.

 

[FLaw47]

You are 100% correct. But I’d argue even beyond illegals that American citizens are NOT the priority. The amount of funding used abroad that could be protecting American citizens is enormous. AND ITS OUR MONEY.

How much money is it?

 

[SDTiger9]

How much money is it?

What we spend in excess on foreign entanglements?
israel for decades
Iran
Ukraine for 4 years
Middle East in general

Sure some of those things have value for a short period of time but it only lines DoD/defense contractors pockets. Blow **** up and then service US Infrastructure companies to rebuild. Trump wants to go from 1T to 1.5T in defense. Are you fvckin kidding me?

Meanwhile, domestically we have a cat fight over illegals and citizens like MSM and ****** politicians want.

 

[FLaw47]

What we spend in excess on foreign entanglements?
israel for decades
Iran
Ukraine for 4 years
Middle East in general

Sure some of those things have value for a short period of time but it only lines DoD/defense contractors pockets. Blow **** up and then service US Infrastructure companies to rebuild. Trump wants to go from 1T to 1.5T in defense. Are you fvckin kidding me?

Meanwhile, domestically we have a cat fight over illegals and citizens like MSM and ****** politicians want.

I thought you were more talking about foreign aid, my bad. But I think Ukraine is more than worth it.

 

[SDTiger9]

I thought you were more talking about foreign aid, my bad. But I think Ukraine is more than worth it.

I love all the people around the world. Can we afford it in relation to our rising domestic demands?

 

[FLaw47]

I love all the people around the world. Can we afford it in relation to our rising domestic demands?

Yes

 

[SDTiger9]

Yes

You can then understand why SOME see us helping foreign people on foreign land is the same as helping foreign people on domestic land.

I agree with the logic. I completely disagree with both actions. We have a serious domestic house to get in order. Once that’s effective, help where and when we can.

Otherwise we will continue to have massive domestic unrest.

 

[FLaw47]

You can then understand why SOME see us helping foreign people on foreign land is the same as helping foreign people on domestic land.

I agree with the logic. I completely disagree with both actions. We have a serious domestic house to get in order. Once that’s effective, help where and when we can.

Otherwise we will continue to have massive domestic unrest.

I'm not saying you're not allowed a different opinion. But I will say we don't have to have everything perfect domestically before we make smart global investments. And Ukraine is not just about Ukrainians. It serves our interests to not have Putin acting like Napoleon all over Europe.

 

[SDTiger9]

I'm not saying you're not allowed a different opinion. But I will say we don't have to have everything perfect domestically before we make smart global investments. And Ukraine is not just about Ukrainians. It serves our interests to not have Putin acting like Napoleon all over Europe.

Let me know when he invades a NATO country. We antagonize him pushing for UKR into NATO.

And yes, we should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. Apparently we are not very effective in the last 25 years……. when there is an open checkbook for DoD.

OF the 7 richest counties in the US, 5 in DC. Time to cut the thieves off.

 

[FLaw47]

Let me know when he invades a NATO country. We antagonize him pushing for UKR into NATO.

And yes, we should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. Apparently we are not very effective in the last 25 years……. when there is an open checkbook for DoD.

OF the 7 richest counties in the US, 5 in DC. Time to cut the thieves off.

We mostly decided after WWII that forceful annexation of territory wasn't cool. I don't really care that they're not in NATO.

Edit: and I agree that our defense spending needs an overhaul but I don't want to mix up topics.

 

[SDTiger9]

We mostly decided after WWII that forceful annexation of territory wasn't cool. I don't really care that they're not in NATO.

Edit: and I agree that our defense spending needs an overhaul but I don't want to mix up topics.

Mostly is the key word.

I’m not trying to mix topics. I’m explaining that some people see foreign aid and aid to illegals in the states as similar.

 

[1Clemson]

Ok, last night the statement " stand If you believe the first duty of the US government is to protect American citizens not illegal aliens"...all republicans stand, and no democrats stand.

Now I understand there is a political divide, but could some of those who are on the left side please explain the logic of the democrat's position?

This is serious question. I just don't understand how protecting American citizens first is even debatable. What am I missing?

Likely weren’t listening or even more likely not participating in his political games.

Stunts like this are used in all types of places to try to portray the speaker as a unifier. They are silly in business meetings, conference presentations and political events. I don’t play the game and never stand regardless of the criteria for standing.

 

[LafayetteBear]

that sounds good, but really doesn't address the question. The question Trump asked was straightforward, no caveats, no BS, just a simple statement. Why would not one democrat stand...not one?

You can normally be straight with your opinions. Do democrats really not believe that the first responsibility is to protect American citizens? Are these elected officials so blinded by anything trump that they don't have the moral courage to make an individual decision?

I asked you why you couldn't simply agree that it was a bad idea for the USMC (with the Trump White House's express approval) to fire live ammunition over Interstate 5 without closing said Interstate. You declined to do so, even after some decently sized live ammo fragments fell directly onto I-5 and heavily damaged a CHP cruiser, Thank God Gavin Newsom took it upon himself to close I-5, or someone would likely have been injured or killed.

How soon we forget. But perhaps you will find the "moral courage" to answer that question.

 

[FLaw47]

Likely weren’t listening or even more likely not participating in his political games.

Stunts like this are used in all types of places to try to portray the speaker as a unifier. They are silly in business meetings, conference presentations and political events. I don’t play the game and never stand regardless of the criteria for standing.

I was at a Gracie Jiu-Jitsu seminar hosted by one Renner Gracie. He said to raise your hand if you were willing to do whatever it took to be as good as you could be at Jiu-Jitsu. Everyone but me raised their hands and I just sort of gave Renner a shrug when he called me out. Whatever it takes could be anything and I felt like showing up twice a week was close to my max. My sensei was not proud.

 

[baltimorened]

I love all the people around the world. Can we afford it in relation to our rising domestic demands?

well, we're only about $39 trillion in debt

 

[dpic73]

Hey Republicans who are complaining that Democrats didn't stand and cheer for Trump's lies last night, here are some clips from Biden's 2024 SOTU in which Republicans refused to stand and cheer for these statements:

“No billionaire should pay a lower tax rate than a teacher, a sanitation worker or a nurse.”

“You can’t love your country only when you win.”

“I want to cap prescription drug costs at $2,000.”

Weird.

 

[baltimorened]

I asked you why you couldn't simply agree that it was a bad idea for the USMC (with the Trump White House's express approval) to fire live ammunition over Interstate 5 without closing said Interstate. You declined to do so, even after some decently sized live ammo fragments fell directly onto I-5 and heavily damaged a CHP cruiser, Thank God Gavin Newsom took it upon himself to close I-5, or someone would likely have been injured or killed.

How soon we forget. But perhaps you will find the "moral courage" to answer that question.

that was a long time ago, so I might not get this right. But if I recall, I did post something to the effect that firing live rounds over an active highways was not a good idea..

But I'm not really sure what that has to do with this thread..or moral courage. Have I hit a sore note with you, or just having a bad day?

I'm going to assume the reason for the deflection is that you don't agree the first responsibility of government is protection of it's citizens

 

[SDTiger9]

well, we're only about $39 trillion in debt

I agree. I’m trying to shed the light that those want to provide services to illegals in the states have a point.

There’s a legit basis that they see foreign spend of ALL KINDS no different.

Personally, I don’t agree. I’d like to slash the Swamp. It’s killing us and there is no end in sight. TO ME, the Swamp = illegal alien spend.

 

[nytigerfan]

Ok, last night the statement " stand If you believe the first duty of the US government is to protect American citizens not illegal aliens"...all republicans stand, and no democrats stand.

Now I understand there is a political divide, but could some of those who are on the left side please explain the logic of the democrat's position?

This is serious question. I just don't understand how protecting American citizens first is even debatable. What am I missing?

I didnt watch and I am too lazy to read the transcript of exactly what was said. But if you are a dem and you stand and clap in that situation, what exactly are you clapping for? Murdering American citizens while protecting them? Accidentally deporting American citizens without due process while you are protecting them? Deporting undocumented people for no real reason to protect American citizens?

 

[baltimorened]

I agree. I’m trying to shed the light that those want to provide services to illegals in the states have a point.

There’s a legit basis that they see foreign spend of ALL KINDS no different.

Personally, I don’t agree. I’d like to slash the Swamp. It’s killing us and there is no end in sight. TO ME, the Swamp = illegal alien spend.

well, there can be little debate that borrowing money to send it overseas makes little or no sense. But this is not a partisan issue, both democrat and republican administrations have been doing it for decades. Same goes for all the free benefits for undocumented migrants. Mamdani goes before the media a week ago and laments a $2billion hole in his budget and a week later advertises free childcare for undoucment migrant children...what???

Can you imagine the economics where the debt was $20 trillion or $10 trillion? Interest rates would be lower , lots more money for investment in the US......we're borrowing ourselves into oblivion and the elected officials don't seem to care.

 

[LafayetteBear]

that was a long time ago, so I might not get this right. But if I recall, I did post something to the effect that firing live rounds over an active highways was not a good idea..

But I'm not really sure what that has to do with this thread..or moral courage. Have I hit a sore note with you, or just having a bad day?

I'm going to assume the reason for the deflection is that you don't agree the first responsibility of government is protection of it's citizens

You wrote about Democrats lacking "moral courage" in the very post of yours to which I responded. So I merely used the same terminology you did. That was neither a sore note nor deflection on my part.

And I would not disagree with the notion that a government's responsibility includes protection of its (note lack of an apostrophe in its) citizens. Which is one reason why I find ICE roughing up and shooting U.S. citizens so objectionable. You apparently do not.