Hydroxychloroquine to be made OTC today?

[appalachiatiger]

dam

obama removed more mailboxes than Trump.

obama removed 12,000 mailboxes

the postal service has been hemorraging money since electronic email

they put way way too many blue boxes out in communities that dont need servicing.

when you have 3 letters in a blue box over the course of the week, if i was the postman, i would quit checking it

he isnt closing the post office

there is no way on gods green earth if you mail in a ballot that donald trump taking up mailboxes prevents you from voting

thats soooo stupid

 

[CUFever91]

https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study

Please read this study.

I was just going to post this.

18.1% fatality without hydroxy. 13.5% fatality rate with hydroxy.

But, it's been noted that the studies were purely observational. Also Henry Ford co-administered steroids.

The other studies were blind randomized and with no steroids. It's been concluded that hydroxy does not help in a significant way.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bl...-shouldn-t-be-used-at-all-for-covid-isda-says

It does not work better than placebo and it, and a small number of cases, can cause serious cardiac complications.

 

[dbowers2008]

No one is getting angry over possible good news. First, the news was fake, as is common from you. Second, HQ is not an effective treatment for Covid-19. Most anyone with a brain knows that after the FAR majority of doctors and scientists have proven this.

Possible is the key word. I don’t pretend to know it all like some do. Please tell me what all fake news I’ve shared on here.

 

[Unifex]

HQ is not useful for people who are very sick. However, HQ is useful as a prophylactic to prevent infection and for early stage infections (as shown in the Ford Hospital study). The comparisons you are making between countries have more to do with good, well funded health care systems that have not been overrun versus poor systems that were / are overwhelmed.

I am in favor of more drugs going over-the-counter. If the argument is that people are going to be hurt or die from the side effects, then make acetaminophen a prescription drug only. Deaths and kidney failure happen often with Tylenol. It is far more dangerous than HQ!

Tylenol doesn’t cause renal failure...it can and will cause liver failure. The ford data is far from conclusive on HCQ.

 

[scott in nashville]

@dbjork6317 been reeling them in lately.

 

[TigerCaper]

look im no mathematician but

The probability of death for patients receiving hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin was 189/735 (25.7% [95% CI, 22.3%-28.9%]),

hydroxychloroquine alone, 54/271 (19.9% [95% CI, 15.2%-24.7%]),

azithromycin alone, 21/211 (10.0% [95% CI, 5.9%-14.0%]),

and neither drug, 28/221 (12.7% [95% CI, 8.3%-17.1%]).

These death rates tell me that the persons in this study were extraordinarily sick. My understanding is that to be effective hydroxy needs to be given with zinc early in illness (and possibly with azith. and vitamin D). My understanding is that the earlier the better. What do the studies say in that situation? Has any such study even been done in the USA? I am pretty ignorant on science matters, so I am genuinely interested in the answers.

 

[TigerCaper]

I was just going to post this.

18.1% fatality without hydroxy. 13.5% fatality rate with hydroxy.

But, it's been noted that the studies were purely observational. Also Henry Ford co-administered steroids.

The other studies were blind randomized and with no steroids. It's been concluded that hydroxy does not help in a significant way.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bl...-shouldn-t-be-used-at-all-for-covid-isda-says

It does not work better than placebo and it, and a small number of cases, can cause serious cardiac complications.

I wonder how accurate these articles are on the subject? These lead you to believe that to be effective the treatment needs to start promptly upon first symptoms, not very sick persons already hospitalized. Is this accurate?

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/a...t_the_media_continues_to_besmirch_143875.html


https://thevillagereporter.com/prof...0000-lives-being-stifled-by-a-propaganda-war/


https://publichealth.yale.edu/news-article/26218/

 

[TigerCaper]

Possible is the key word. I don’t pretend to know it all like some do. Please tell me what all fake news I’ve shared on here.

This is taken from the Real Clear Politics article that I cited above. I have no way of knowing if this is accurate. I would love for someone on the board with proper expertise to chime in.

"There are now 53 studies that show positive results of hydroxychloroquine in COVID infections. There are 14 global studies that show neutral or negative results -- and 10 of them were of patients in very late stages of COVID-19, where no antiviral drug can be expected to have much effect. Of the remaining four studies, two come from the same University of Minnesota author. The other two are from the faulty Brazil paper, which should be retracted, and the fake Lancet paper, which was.

Millions of people are taking or have taken hydroxychloroquine in nations that have managed to get their national pandemic under some degree of control. Two recent, large, early-use clinical trials have been conducted by the Henry Ford Health System and at Mount Sinai showing a 51% and 47% lower mortality, respectively, in hospitalized patients given hydroxychloroquine. A recent study from Spain published on July 29, two days before Margaret Sullivan’s strafing of “fringe doctors,” shows a 66% reduction in COVID mortality in patients taking hydroxychloroquine. No serious side effects were reported in these studies and no epidemic of heartbeat abnormalities.

This is ground-shaking news. Why is it not being widely reported? Why is the American media trying to run the U.S. pandemic response with its own misinformation?"

 

[CUFever91]

I wonder how accurate these articles are on the subject? These lead you to believe that to be effective the treatment needs to start promptly upon first symptoms, not very sick persons already hospitalized. Is this accurate?

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/a...t_the_media_continues_to_besmirch_143875.html


https://thevillagereporter.com/prof...0000-lives-being-stifled-by-a-propaganda-war/


https://publichealth.yale.edu/news-article/26218/

That was an earlier Yale article. Yale later published that they no longer recommend it:


June 15, 2020 Update: Based on ongoing analysis and emerging scientific data, FDA has revoked the emergency use authorization (EUA) to use hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine to treat COVID-19 in certain hospitalized patients when a clinical trial is unavailable or participation is not feasible. We made this determination based on recent results from a large, randomized clinical trial in hospitalized patients that found these medicines showed no benefit for decreasing the likelihood of death or speeding recovery. This outcome was consistent with other new data, including those showing the suggested dosing for these medicines are unlikely to kill or inhibit the virus that causes COVID-19. As a result, we determined that the legal criteria for the EUA are no longer met.

https://medicine.yale.edu/news-article/26290/

 

[birdmanCU]

dam

obama removed more mailboxes than Trump.

obama removed 12,000 mailboxes

the postal service has been hemorraging money since electronic email

they put way way too many blue boxes out in communities that dont need servicing.

when you have 3 letters in a blue box over the course of the week, if i was the postman, i would quit checking it

he isnt closing the post office

there is no way on gods green earth if you mail in a ballot that donald trump taking up mailboxes prevents you from voting

thats soooo stupid

Thank you for this.

 

[treetiger]

Don’t forget the Zinc people. It’s the key to the entire thing.

I don't know who the 'Zinc People' are but they must be scary...

 

[appalachiatiger]

Possible is the key word. I don’t pretend to know it all like some do. Please tell me what all fake news I’ve shared on here.

we know for a fact it worked on this lady

and i bet she still doesnt vote for trump

she might

 

[appalachiatiger]

These death rates tell me that the persons in this study were extraordinarily sick. My understanding is that to be effective hydroxy needs to be given with zinc early in illness (and possibly with azith. and vitamin D). My understanding is that the earlier the better. What do the studies say in that situation? Has any such study even been done in the USA? I am pretty ignorant on science matters, so I am genuinely interested in the answers.

they way i look at this study:

its good for fat out shape people with diabetes

not a 18-24 year old big 10 football player pool of results

so this is obsolete to me

 

[TigerCaper]

This is taken from the Real Clear Politics article that I cited above. I have no way of knowing if this is accurate. I would love for someone on the board with proper expertise to chime in.

"There are now 53 studies that show positive results of hydroxychloroquine in COVID infections. There are 14 global studies that show neutral or negative results -- and 10 of them were of patients in very late stages of COVID-19, where no antiviral drug can be expected to have much effect. Of the remaining four studies, two come from the same University of Minnesota author. The other two are from the faulty Brazil paper, which should be retracted, and the fake Lancet paper, which was.

Millions of people are taking or have taken hydroxychloroquine in nations that have managed to get their national pandemic under some degree of control. Two recent, large, early-use clinical trials have been conducted by the Henry Ford Health System and at Mount Sinai showing a 51% and 47% lower mortality, respectively, in hospitalized patients given hydroxychloroquine. A recent study from Spain published on July 29, two days before Margaret Sullivan’s strafing of “fringe doctors,” shows a 66% reduction in COVID mortality in patients taking hydroxychloroquine. No serious side effects were reported in these studies and no epidemic of heartbeat abnormalities.

This is ground-shaking news. Why is it not being widely reported? Why is the American media trying to run the U.S. pandemic response with its own misinformation?"

This is a quote from the Yale article by a Yale professor:

"Hydroxychloroquine alone is not the whole story. It needs to be combined with azithromycin or doxycycline and probably with zinc to make it most effective. The game changer is to aggressively treat people as soon as possible, before they are hospitalized, to keep them from becoming hospitalized in the first place. Hydroxychloroquine plus the other medications is what we know about now. In a few months we may have data on other medications that also work. We just have to start with something now."

That was an earlier Yale article. Yale later published that they no longer recommend it:


June 15, 2020 Update: Based on ongoing analysis and emerging scientific data, FDA has revoked the emergency use authorization (EUA) to use hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine to treat COVID-19 in certain hospitalized patients when a clinical trial is unavailable or participation is not feasible. We made this determination based on recent results from a large, randomized clinical trial in hospitalized patients that found these medicines showed no benefit for decreasing the likelihood of death or speeding recovery. This outcome was consistent with other new data, including those showing the suggested dosing for these medicines are unlikely to kill or inhibit the virus that causes COVID-19. As a result, we determined that the legal criteria for the EUA are no longer met.

https://medicine.yale.edu/news-article/26290/

In the second article I cite, Dr. Risch is quoted in late July. Presumably he is diverging from Yale as a whole, but does he have credibility?

 

[appalachiatiger]

This is taken from the Real Clear Politics article that I cited above. I have no way of knowing if this is accurate. I would love for someone on the board with proper expertise to chime in.

"There are now 53 studies that show positive results of hydroxychloroquine in COVID infections. There are 14 global studies that show neutral or negative results -- and 10 of them were of patients in very late stages of COVID-19, where no antiviral drug can be expected to have much effect. Of the remaining four studies, two come from the same University of Minnesota author. The other two are from the faulty Brazil paper, which should be retracted, and the fake Lancet paper, which was.

Millions of people are taking or have taken hydroxychloroquine in nations that have managed to get their national pandemic under some degree of control. Two recent, large, early-use clinical trials have been conducted by the Henry Ford Health System and at Mount Sinai showing a 51% and 47% lower mortality, respectively, in hospitalized patients given hydroxychloroquine. A recent study from Spain published on July 29, two days before Margaret Sullivan’s strafing of “fringe doctors,” shows a 66% reduction in COVID mortality in patients taking hydroxychloroquine. No serious side effects were reported in these studies and no epidemic of heartbeat abnormalities.

This is ground-shaking news. Why is it not being widely reported? Why is the American media trying to run the U.S. pandemic response with its own misinformation?"

in other words

when diving into the data

the truth comes out

 

[appalachiatiger]

This is a quote from the Yale article by a Yale professor:

"Hydroxychloroquine alone is not the whole story. It needs to be combined with azithromycin or doxycycline and probably with zinc to make it most effective. The game changer is to aggressively treat people as soon as possible, before they are hospitalized, to keep them from becoming hospitalized in the first place. Hydroxychloroquine plus the other medications is what we know about now. In a few months we may have data on other medications that also work. We just have to start with something now."

In the second article I cite, Dr. Risch is quoted in late July. Presumably he is diverging from Yale as a whole, but does he have credibility?

i mean all you are doing is putting bleach into your bloodstream

 

[TigerCaper]

That was an earlier Yale article. Yale later published that they no longer recommend it:


June 15, 2020 Update: Based on ongoing analysis and emerging scientific data, FDA has revoked the emergency use authorization (EUA) to use hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine to treat COVID-19 in certain hospitalized patients when a clinical trial is unavailable or participation is not feasible. We made this determination based on recent results from a large, randomized clinical trial in hospitalized patients that found these medicines showed no benefit for decreasing the likelihood of death or speeding recovery. This outcome was consistent with other new data, including those showing the suggested dosing for these medicines are unlikely to kill or inhibit the virus that causes COVID-19. As a result, we determined that the legal criteria for the EUA are no longer met.

https://medicine.yale.edu/news-article/26290/

I am also very curious if this quote from the first article I cite is accurate regarding Switzerland. If accurate, I personally would like to see an inquest in the USA as I would trust the Swiss medical/scientific community at least equally with the USA community and much more once money and/or politics gets involved.

Finally, several nations that had started using an aggressive early-use outpatient policy for hydroxychloroquine, including France and Switzerland, stopped this practice when the WHO temporarily withdrew its support for the drug. Five days after the publication of the fake Lancet study and the resulting media onslaught, Swiss politicians banned hydroxychloroquine use in the country from May 27 until June 11, when it was quickly reinstated.

The consequences of suddenly stopping hydroxychloroquine can be seen by examining a graph of the Case Fatality Ratio Index (nrCFR) for Switzerland. This is derived by dividing the number of daily new COVID fatalities by the new cases resolved over a period with a seven-day moving average. Looking at the evolution curve of the CFR it can be seen that during the weeks preceding the ban on hydroxychloroquine, the nrCFR index fluctuated between 3% and 5%.

Following a lag of 13 days after stopping outpatient hydroxychloroquine use, the country’s COVID-19 deaths increased four-fold and the nrCFR index stayed elevated at the highest level it had been since early in the COVID pandemic, oscillating at over 10%-15%. Early outpatient hydroxychloroquine was restarted June 11 but the four-fold “wave of excess lethality” lasted until June 22, after which the nrCFR rapidly returned to its background value.

 

[JAMCRACKER99]

The absolute **** show continues ...

 

[jonalexand1]

What are the alleged dangers of taking it?

Many people have cardiac conditions that they are unaware of. Hydroxycloroquine can be very dangerous for those people. That’s one example.

 

[appalachiatiger]

The absolute **** show continues ...

as the big 10 turns

 

[appalachiatiger]

Many people have cardiac conditions that they are unaware of. Hydroxycloroquine can be very dangerous for those people. That’s one example.

is having sex very dangerous for cardiac conditions too???

 

[RicheClemson]

Amazing how people get angry over possible good news.

This times a million. People are so pessimistic. I want good news. I want football. I want reason.
https://www.westernjournal.com/yale...-anchors-ludicrous-hydroxychloroquine-attack/

 

[birdmanCU]

Many people have cardiac conditions that they are unaware of. Hydroxycloroquine can be very dangerous for those people. That’s one example.

Please define what "many" means to you. Also, please speculate on how many doctors prescribe HCQ to their patients without understanding their patients "cardiac conditions". I have seen many doctors dismiss this risk because that is one of the conditions doctors consider before prescribing HCQ.

 

[birdmanCU]

This times a million. People are so pessimistic. I want good news. I want football. I want reason.
https://www.westernjournal.com/yale...-anchors-ludicrous-hydroxychloroquine-attack/

I heard someone ask: What came first? the democrat or the pessimist?

 

[TigerCaper]

This is a quote from the Yale article by a Yale professor:

"Hydroxychloroquine alone is not the whole story. It needs to be combined with azithromycin or doxycycline and probably with zinc to make it most effective. The game changer is to aggressively treat people as soon as possible, before they are hospitalized, to keep them from becoming hospitalized in the first place. Hydroxychloroquine plus the other medications is what we know about now. In a few months we may have data on other medications that also work. We just have to start with something now."

In the second article I cite, Dr. Risch is quoted in late July. Presumably he is diverging from Yale as a whole, but does he have credibility?

Here is Dr. Risch in Newsweek in late July. Is he a complete quack? What about all the other countries around the world using it? I am not trying to be argumentative, I am genuinely trying to understand what is real.

https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeat...exists-we-need-start-using-it-opinion-1519535

 

[CU91ENGR]

So, why do all of you even care about whether HQ works or not. Covid-19 is a hoax, right?

 

[birdmanCU]

So, why do all of you even care about whether HQ works or not. Covid-19 is a hoax, right?

Respectfully, I believe you are only making a fool of yourself.

 

[TigerCaper]

Many people have cardiac conditions that they are unaware of. Hydroxycloroquine can be very dangerous for those people. That’s one example.

Haven't billions of doses been prescribed over the past 60 years? My understanding is that it is even over the counter in some countries.

See the article below from the Lupus organization. When I see this and then compare it to what we are being told when used for Covid, it makes me cynical and skeptical. Here is a quote from their web site. How does this mesh with what we are now being told regarding Covid?

"Today, however, HCQ is recommended for most individuals with lupus, whether mild, moderate, or severe, as well as during pregnancy and while breastfeeding. Given the drug’s many and varied beneficial effects and its excellent long-standing safety profile, most rheumatologists believe that hydroxychloroquine should be taken by people with lupus throughout their lifetime. Annual examinations with a qualified retina specialist are strongly encouraged, however."

https://www.lupus.org/resources/drug-spotlight-on-hydroxychloroquine

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

What are the alleged dangers of taking it?

you will live as a Conservative for the rest of your life

 

[CUFever91]

I am also very curious if this quote from the first article I cite is accurate regarding Switzerland. If accurate, I personally would like to see an inquest in the USA as I would trust the Swiss medical/scientific community at least equally with the USA community and much more once money and/or politics gets involved.

Finally, several nations that had started using an aggressive early-use outpatient policy for hydroxychloroquine, including France and Switzerland, stopped this practice when the WHO temporarily withdrew its support for the drug. Five days after the publication of the fake Lancet study and the resulting media onslaught, Swiss politicians banned hydroxychloroquine use in the country from May 27 until June 11, when it was quickly reinstated.

The consequences of suddenly stopping hydroxychloroquine can be seen by examining a graph of the Case Fatality Ratio Index (nrCFR) for Switzerland. This is derived by dividing the number of daily new COVID fatalities by the new cases resolved over a period with a seven-day moving average. Looking at the evolution curve of the CFR it can be seen that during the weeks preceding the ban on hydroxychloroquine, the nrCFR index fluctuated between 3% and 5%.

Following a lag of 13 days after stopping outpatient hydroxychloroquine use, the country’s COVID-19 deaths increased four-fold and the nrCFR index stayed elevated at the highest level it had been since early in the COVID pandemic, oscillating at over 10%-15%. Early outpatient hydroxychloroquine was restarted June 11 but the four-fold “wave of excess lethality” lasted until June 22, after which the nrCFR rapidly returned to its background value.

I wish the RCT studies were there to show it works but they aren't. When CDC, Fauci, National institute of health, Deborah Birx (appointed by the prez), Surgeon General (appointed by the prez), Yale, WHO say it's time to move in, I guess it's time to move on.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-halts-clinical-trial-hydroxychloroquine

 

[CU91ENGR]

Respectfully, I believe you are only making a fool of yourself.

By listening to what doctors and Healthcare professionals say? I think those that just throw out unsubstantiated info and fake news are the ones making fools of themselves.

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

He’s approving a blood plasma treatment. Don’t think it’s gonna be hydroxychloroquine in the announcement

Just like the hydro stuff the Deep State FDA was dragging its feet on the use of that treatment that has been used like 100 years

Approval from some Deep State haters was delaying life saving treatment for many Americans

the Deep State wants to run up the death toll as much as possible

This is all my opinion plus friends in government who tell me what they are seeing going on

 

[Tigerbomb]

Just a little perspective for you:
Spain, Italy and Brazil all used HQ on more than 40% of their patients. The death rates per million in those countries were 617, 586, and 538 respectively.
Germany and Japan used it by far the least (less than 15% for Germany and less than 10% for Japan). Their death rates were 111 and 9 per million respectively.

Your problem is you refuse to have an open mind about anything related to HQ.

I'm fully willing to accept that HQ offers no benefit when given in the late stages of Covid.

A lot of the research you are referring to was given to patients in a hail Mary attempt.

I'm also willing to accept that many doctors have had tremendous success when they have started HQ early when given with zinc and a Z pack.

It is not a dangerous drug with harmful side effects as it has been around for 50 years with no track record of causing heart problems. It is similar to saying tylenol is lethal because a few people had bad side effects.

Can I ask why you are so against HQ if given early? There is a study endorsed by the NHC from 2006 that clearly states HQ was an effective and recommended treated for SARS. Fauci himself was the director then.

Open your mind a little and quit politicizing the virus.

Even if it helps a little is it not worth it?

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

I'm relieved we are not going to have a malaria problem in the US.

People in the world are many more times likely to die from malaria than Covid and the death toll from Malaria is many times higher

 

[lvilletiger_rivals]

People in the world are many more times likely to die from malaria than Covid and the death toll from Malaria is many times higher

Now I'm even more relieved. Actually, your "facts" aren't right. Annual malaria deaths are just over 400,000 and more than 90% of those occur in African countries. COVID-19 has killed over 800,000 globally and it is only August.

 

[Tiger Guru]

If Trump found a cure for cancer and announced it they would be pissed it took him nearly 4 years to do it.

Team covid is the new Bama...

 

[TigerCaper]

I wish the RCT studies were there to show it works but they aren't. When CDC, Fauci, National institute of health, Deborah Birx (appointed by the prez), Surgeon General (appointed by the prez), Yale, WHO say it's time to move in, I guess it's time to move on.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-halts-clinical-trial-hydroxychloroquine

Except there are equally capable scientists and similar institutions in equally capable countries saying the opposite.

I am very cynical on this as I recall that these same persons and organizations early on told us to not wear masks. I suspect they did so because they were wanting to avoid a run on masks to allow medical professionals to get them first, but basically it shows they are willing to lie blatantly and repeatedly even if it would cost the lives of many thousands if they feel justified. Such duplicity was on display again with the BLM protests: gatherings are fine so long as for the right purpose.

What an epic, epic failure by our politicians and scientific and medical communities. There needs to be a truth and reconciliation process when this is over televised nationally with folks under oath with mandatory jail time for any caught lying.

 

[CUFever91]

Except there are equally capable scientists and similar institutions in equally capable countries saying the opposite.

I am very cynical on this as I recall that these same persons and organizations early on told us to not wear masks. I suspect they did so because they were wanting to avoid a run on masks to allow medical professionals to get them first, but basically it shows they are willing to lie blatantly and repeatedly even if it would cost the lives of many thousands if they feel justified. Such duplicity was on display again with the BLM protests: gatherings are fine so long as for the right purpose.

What an epic, epic failure by our politicians and scientific and medical communities. There needs to be a truth and reconciliation process when this is over televised nationally with folks under oath.

You're getting into a political discussion here.
I just want to report on the scientific stuff I've seen.

I don't remember (could be wrong ) that BLM protests was a good idea with regards to COVID. Neither are big family gatherings, parties, bars, Sturgis etc etc. I think everyone agrees that that is inarguable.

We as a society can sit here and play pick your sources, but those I listed above are the most esteemed sources out there. I don't hear any other esteemed sources disagreeing with those listed above at this point. If we can't trust those folks, I'm not sure who we can.

 

[birdmanCU]

By listening to what doctors and Healthcare professionals say? I think those that just throw out unsubstantiated info and fake news are the ones making fools of themselves.

No, but by only listening to your professional and/or media sources, and discounting everyone else's.

 

[ayerscm79]

By listening to what doctors and Healthcare professionals say? I think those that just throw out unsubstantiated info and fake news are the ones making fools of themselves.

I’ll take a shot at this. In my ICU the average BMI of the patients with COVID is almost 40. Nationally the median death age is 78-79. People 79 and older only make up 10% of the population of the US. The mean age of death for men and women respectively from all causes in the US is 76 and 81. So, the virus (in general) kills the old and unhealthy (obese).