Huggins got a T and a well deserved T at the end of the game as well as being thrown out as he went ballistic on the refs at the end of the game vs Kansas last night. Incredibly Kansas had a 35-2 advantage in free throws in its game vs WVU. That's insane. Also in the press conference Huggins stated that refs should have to answer at the end of the games to questions etc as they make themselves a vital part of the game but then disappear not having to respond to the media etc. I'm sure we ll see this from Pikiell once we get better and the games take on a more significant meaning if ref calls continue to go against us consistently as he alluded to in the court club meeting several days ago. Good for Huggy bear! He ll be fined but well deserved and he has enough clout and respect that the refs for the balance in the year in conference won't mess with him after the outburst
Huggins got it right about Refs
- Thread starter BigEastPhil
- Start date
Everything the refs do is reviewed. They are accountable. We just don't see it.
Sure. But instead of not being "rewarded" with working a regional final or something, how about a grading system that we can see? I don't give a flying f*&^ if they are held accountable in some league office somewhere.
Look, we know it's a hard job, but some people do it very well and others are awful. And the awful ones keep on working. They might go years without working a postseason game because they are held "accountable," but there they are every January sucking moose balls and not being called on the carpet in any way we can see.
They affect the game. We pay to see the game. We deserve more transparency.
And don't think for a moment that better refs are coming up through the high school level. You wouldn't believe what more physical teams are allowed to get away with.
Wait? But i thought all calls evened out in the end?
Didn't you know it's this cosmic rule of the universe...everything evens out!
Because if you believe that you can just believe that somehow sports are this balanced equilibrium of equity.
It's the funniest thing that people continue to say.
And one of the dumbest.
Didn't you know it's this cosmic rule of the universe...everything evens out!
Because if you believe that you can just believe that somehow sports are this balanced equilibrium of equity.
It's the funniest thing that people continue to say.
And one of the dumbest.
Huggins may be right, but this complaint is a bit rich coming from him. WVU plays an extremely aggressive style of defense. They hug, grab, reach, and hand check you to death. Huggins is counting on "whistle fatigue" preventing the refs from calling all of it. He has said as much in interviews. It is exactly what Coach K has done for years with all of the hand checking. He bets that they will end up letting most of it go. The problem, of course, arises when they run into an officiating crew that does call all of that stuff. Calls for referee accountability are fine and good but, with Huggins, it just sounds like you are mad that they didn't call the game they way you wanted/expected.
Yes but 35-2 in favor of Kansas for foul shots seems unimaginable.
Yes! And when & only when Pikiell feels able to do it, & does it, will it end.
It was 35-2. I’m sure there were late game free throws, but 35-2 is a bit much
the total foul disparity was only 24-14 and included some intentional fouls at the end and even some of the fouls earlier on were intentionally fouling the Kansas center who sucks at FTs.
Huggins would be a lot more credible if his players weren't committing 3 fouls on every possession by just plain old grabbing guys cutting to get open.
Like the long ago Georgetown teams, West Virginia does everything but de-pants you. Perhaps the refs were shooting to get the Mountaineers to clean up their act a bit and it never happened. Boxscore for those who want the facts, including the names of the refs ...
http://wvusports.com/boxscore.aspx?id=5707&path=mbball
http://wvusports.com/boxscore.aspx?id=5707&path=mbball
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It’s not just about fouls, it’s when they occur. If Team A is getting bailed out by soft fouls and ends up getting free throws out it it and team B isn’t, then that’s a big difference. Regardless of foul total. I don’t understand how one team shoots 35 and the other shoots 2
I watched most of the game not caring who won or lost and had no idea the FT attempt disparity was that wide. The officiating did not appear one sided any more than the usual slight bias for the home team. WVU was straight up mugging people. Kansas played small most of the game and just dared them to shoot over the top.
I watched most of that game. Huggins had every right to be pissed off. The officiating crew was absolutely biased for Kansas. Gotta make sure our prized Big 12 blue blood gets a high seed in the tournament. To have that kind of disparity in FT shooting is a disgrace! I don't know how many times WVU's players drove to the basket and got hacked and nothing was called. Yet when the WVU players literally breathed on a Kansas player a foul was called.
I also agree that the NCAA is quick to fine a coach for speaking out. Then it should be fine to force these officials to answer questions for their blatant biases.
I understand what you're saying regarding Huggins. I am not a Huggins fan, but I watched the majority of that game and the foul shot disparity was a disgrace. And it wasn't just that it was 35-2 it was when the game was in doubt for Kansas that suddenly every possession of theirs when they didn't score included a foul against WVU. It was total ********.
WVU didn't get whistled unless it was a 2 hand takedown. They literally held someone on every single in bounds pass the entire game long. They whacked guys in the head shooting in the lane and didn't get whistled.
I'm all for better reffing in college hoops, but this wasn't some crazy travesty.
I think this is based on the calls being unbiased in the first place. There will always be brutal calls and non-calls in sports. But, if the refs are predisposed to call them more often against poorer teams as opposed to the media stars, then they will never "even out".
I am one of those people who try not to blame poor officiating for team losses. That said, one certainly has to wonder how some can be so one sided.
The number ONE thing that would help stop this non sense is that if the refs get an edict to NOT talk any coaches or players on a call.
During tineouts ...be no where near either bench.
Why an official should give an audience to coach over a call is absurd
Only times ref is talk to a coach is something procedural
During tineouts ...be no where near either bench.
Why an official should give an audience to coach over a call is absurd
Only times ref is talk to a coach is something procedural
You are 100% correct. 2 of the refs were old timers of the Big 12 and it seemed they were quite "vested" to ensure Kansas maintains their Big 12 dominance.
Blaming the Refs for Loser Fans 101
Watched the game in its entirety,
First some season stats. West Virginia is ranked 332 in personal fouls at a whooping 21.2 fouls per game. That's because they play extremely aggressive trap and press defense, and are probably the most physical defense in the country. Doesn't bode well for winning the free throws contest any way you look at it. Kansas on the other hand ranks 17th in the country at 15.4 fouls per game.
In this particular game, Kansas fouled 14 times, 1.5 less than their season average. West Virginia fouled 26 times, approximately 4 more times than their season average. Not so earth shattering.
In 14 Big 12 contests for West Virginia, 12 opponents have attempted more free throws than West Virginia, which includes all of West Virginia's home games. Ask the Oklahoma fans who believe Trae Young was mugged repeatedly without any calls in their loss when in Morgantown and yet, West Virginia still had more fouls called against them.
Back to last night's game. In order for a team to get to the free throw line, they first have to draw fouls. There are 2 main reasons why West Virginia never showed up at the free throw line. The first is 46 out of the 61 shots they took, were outside the paint. They made a total of only 7 shots inside the paint. Not a great method for drawing fouls. The second reason is they turned the ball over 11 out of 13 times while in the lane or trying to pass the ball inside. Also, not a productive use of possessions to attempt to draw fouls. In summary, their style of defense and using their possessions shooting from the outside and turning the ball over, is usually a really bad combination in terms of free throws.
Not to mention, Graham made 7 out of 8 FTs in the last 24 seconds, when the game was close to being a done deal.
West Virginia lost because they got conservative with a lead to early in the game (about 8 minutes to go in the game), and made some major mistakes, i.e. Miles open for a 3 and passed it up, and his overthrown pass. They were outscored 19-3 coming down the stretch.
But losers have to search for anything to blame for losing other than themselves.
Edit: I also had no dog in the race. I dislike both Kansas and West Virginia equally along with most of the rest of the Big 12. The only reason I watched was because it was an ESPN game.
Watched the game in its entirety,
First some season stats. West Virginia is ranked 332 in personal fouls at a whooping 21.2 fouls per game. That's because they play extremely aggressive trap and press defense, and are probably the most physical defense in the country. Doesn't bode well for winning the free throws contest any way you look at it. Kansas on the other hand ranks 17th in the country at 15.4 fouls per game.
In this particular game, Kansas fouled 14 times, 1.5 less than their season average. West Virginia fouled 26 times, approximately 4 more times than their season average. Not so earth shattering.
In 14 Big 12 contests for West Virginia, 12 opponents have attempted more free throws than West Virginia, which includes all of West Virginia's home games. Ask the Oklahoma fans who believe Trae Young was mugged repeatedly without any calls in their loss when in Morgantown and yet, West Virginia still had more fouls called against them.
Back to last night's game. In order for a team to get to the free throw line, they first have to draw fouls. There are 2 main reasons why West Virginia never showed up at the free throw line. The first is 46 out of the 61 shots they took, were outside the paint. They made a total of only 7 shots inside the paint. Not a great method for drawing fouls. The second reason is they turned the ball over 11 out of 13 times while in the lane or trying to pass the ball inside. Also, not a productive use of possessions to attempt to draw fouls. In summary, their style of defense and using their possessions shooting from the outside and turning the ball over, is usually a really bad combination in terms of free throws.
Not to mention, Graham made 7 out of 8 FTs in the last 24 seconds, when the game was close to being a done deal.
West Virginia lost because they got conservative with a lead to early in the game (about 8 minutes to go in the game), and made some major mistakes, i.e. Miles open for a 3 and passed it up, and his overthrown pass. They were outscored 19-3 coming down the stretch.
But losers have to search for anything to blame for losing other than themselves.
Edit: I also had no dog in the race. I dislike both Kansas and West Virginia equally along with most of the rest of the Big 12. The only reason I watched was because it was an ESPN game.
There are certainly foul calls missed and even whole games that might seem a bit biased, but I have no concerns about any systematic "refereeing conspiracy" against RU. If there were, how does one explain 482 fouls on RU to 521 fouls on our opponents, and 532 FT attempts for RU to 460 for our opponents? And while those numbers are a bit reversed in B1G play, with 282 fouls on RU to 253 fouls on our opponents (that's 2 fouls per game more over 15 games) and 235 FTs for RU vs. 281 for our B1G opponents, I would say that in B1G play, we're behind at the end of most games, which likely adds an extra 2 or more fouls per game, leaving fouls called about even.