Why sad? i hope Cal exploits the hell out of it. if it’s the rule, then use it to your advantage.
Huge Changes Coming to CBB
- Thread starter MWes11
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Why sad? i hope Cal exploits the hell out of it. if it’s the rule, then use it to your advantage.
Up to this point I feel that Coach Cal has been an agent of sorts for his players. He has had their best interest entrusted to him by these top recruits and their families.
Now that will change. He will have a lot more to deal with and I wouldn’t be surprised or blame him if he said screw it and retired.
Now that will change. He will have a lot more to deal with and I wouldn’t be surprised or blame him if he said screw it and retired.
But that is just it; the NCAA has never really changed. Nor will they. They have adopted new rules, regulations and committees multiple times over the years and it's as corrupt as ever. New verbiage on paper isn't going to change that. In fact, I believe it will ultimately just make them more corrupt like their other changes did in the past. The first step the really changing things is new leadership. When schools falter, the NCAA expects changes to be made and heads to roll if necessary. Including but not limited to Presidents, Athletic Directors, coaches and so forth. Why is the NCAA immune from this action as well?
The FBI investigation is essentially concluded. They know far more than they need to to prove a lot of discrepancies exist at AU, AZ, KU and so forth. Yet, I guarantee nothing will ever come of them. This is the NCAA's way of sweeping it under the rug and shitting on the programs who didn't break the rules. Further proof can be found from looking at all the indiscretions which have occurred at DUKE and UNC over the years, that were known and proven, i.e. fake classes, improper benefits, crimes, etc.... Yet, they were never punished. Why is that? It's because the NCAA has their favorite schools who can do no wrong in their eyes, and if they do, and it's made public, simply just divert attention, drag it out endlessly until people forget or lose interest, or when all else fails, change the rules like they are now. It's and endless cycle that will never be remedied as long as the same people are in charge.
College kids don't have to choose their schools before graduating. We already have several who wait later and later each year. Once they graduate high school they aren't considered a HS student anymore. So what prevents them from getting an agent then and getting sent to the highest bidder. What will prevent it when the NBA changes their rule. It will still exist. The NCAA is essentially giving them a loophole to wait until they graduate to begin their recruitment. And just condense their recruitment into the summer after their sr year.
This is more of a poke than a stab or fix. This will ultimately accomplish next to nothing. If you really want to fix it, get with the NBA and make it happen for HS kids to go directly pro. However, if they choose the college route, they should be ineligible for the draft for at least 3 years and be locked into a 3 year contract that if broken has a very high financial penalty. If they leave school for a pro career before that contract is complete, they need to be held responsible for it. Also make it very clear that any proven benefit from an agent automatically ends your amateur career. Which should also carry a very strict financial penalty from the player and the agent. This may not fix it all, but it will greatly mitigate the current impact it's having.
The NCAA is doing this now to avoid punishing any of the past transgressions. Nothing will come of these incidents this past year, absolutely none. This was the NCAA's best chance to make an appearance that something is being done, without actually doing anything other than writing some new rules on paper and hope people believe them and look the other way now. AU, AZ, KU, UL and so forth could have all been punished by now, there is ample evidence they cheated. But nope, not a peep on those. Why do you think that is?
Duke was mentioned with the Carter situation, and there is obviously some very shady **** with the whole Bagley and Duval recruitment's. UNC wasn't mentioned, but let's be honest, we all know shady **** goes on in Chapel Hill on the regular. They could have them and KU on like 5 scandals just this decade.
Not to be an ***, but for someone who said I didn't know what I was talking about and didn't read the article, you are agreeing with what I have to say quite a bit. It's almost as if I knew more than you wanted to let on.
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I don't need to. I know the constraints put on them now, and how is that working?
In a perfect world you might be right,in the world of big bucks and college basketball I fear you are not.
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Always.5+ decades of Tarholery is swept under the rug...
So, you think the fix is to screw a kid even more if he decides to go to college? That's how we fix all of this? Put more restrictions and more punishments in place for the college athlete?
How is it screwing the kid? They are given options, knowing upfront the pros and cons to each. They should be obligated to stick with the ones they choose. It's not a lifetime commitment.
Is it hurting baseball? They are allowed to go out of hs, but if they choose college they are obligated to that choice or quitting. Regardless they still have to wait until they are at least a jr or 21 to go pro if the decide to go to college. Does that seem like much of a punishment?
Does it hurt Football? They can't go pro until after their jr year.
I just believe that if a college provides the financial investment and benefits athletes typically get, they should be able to protect that investment with a financial penalty to the player if they quit or leave early, aside from maybe a transfer.
It's screwing the kid because you say they would face a very high financial penalty. I'm ok with rules in place to restrict when a kid can leave (I would have it straight out of high school or 2 years in college), but the idea of strict financial punishments would drive more and more kids to not attend school.
What do you think is going to happen when they realize it tends to be a high financial penalty to not attend college and actually have the chance to be seen and improve pro potential and draft stock? Of course they can go oversees, but they can do that now and it's not a very popular choice for a reason. Sure, a few more will try it, but once it doesn't work out as planned for a few, less and less will attempt that and instead go the college route. Complete the 3 or 4 years necessary to be eligible for the draft that would exist anyway and there is no penalty. It's really not that hard or a punishment. In the end, they have a chance to go pro or a free college degree they earned. Either way, they will be much better off.
I just don't understand the reason for a financial penalty. There is no such penalty in college baseball or football. They just aren't eligible until they turn a certain age or they are so far removed from high school. I'm trying to figure out what the purpose of a high financial penalty is? You mentioned baseball and football not having issues with the draft requirements, and yet they don't have high financial penalties. Why do you need it in basketball? I'm just not following your logic here.
Fair question. You really wouldn't need both, if the NBA agrees to the 3 and done rule. However, baseball and football don't have the level of risk of a player leaving to go play overseas that you do with basketball. Those sports just aren't popular globally. So I think it does protect in that aspect. Also, it protects the school in the event the player gets busted doing something that terminates their eligibility, such as working with an agent, receiving impermissible benefits and so forth. I personally believe the school has a right to get their financial investment back if one of these instances occur. I'm just of the belief that if you take the financial support of someone else or entity and don't live up to the agreed terms, they should be held responsible. Just like the school should be if they don't live up theirs.
I just think instead of making college basketball a less attractive option (like strict financial penalties if you don't follow through on a 3 year contract), they should be making college basketball more attractive. I understand the premise of protecting the school over something an athlete does, but big time college programs (which these rules impact the most) are making big time money off of these kids. You mention the school having a right to get their financial investment back, but they make much more off of these kids then they put into them. It's already a wise financial investment on the universities behalf.
Good discussion, I'm heading home to watch the Cats. Go Big Blue!
A financial penalty would never survive public opinion. People had a fit when the Pitt player wanted to transfer to UNCheat and Pitt wouldn't let him. There is no way a financial penalty is ever happening.
I'm okay with transferring being penalty free. They obviously had to be somewhat successful in the classroom to typically be eligible for a transfer.
I can see where you are coming from, I just think it's time to make things more strict and batten down the hatches so to speak. I think it gives kid who make the choice to attend a less likelihood to make a bad decision or leave early. In the long-term I think it will be seen as a huge benefit as the players, regardless of how their futures end up, will be better prepared for life. They are far more likely to be successful.
Very few schools actually turn a profit in athletics. The major ones do, but you would be surprised how many of even them really don't. Most schools end up paying millions into their athletic departments each year. it's why so many are cutting more and more sports. The athletes also live pretty well at the major ones. They are typically much more privileged than the avg student, and I am pretty sure most get a stipend of some sort in addition to all the other stuff. Free housing, and they have all kinds of cool as **** there too, such as games electronics and so forth. They get free, top-notch training, coaching and facilities to use 24/7. They get free and unlimited high end supplements and food. I think they now have their own private cafeterias and chefs now if I am not mistaken. Free travel, exposure on national TV, access to NBA scouts via our own combine each year, endless apparel. They aren't hurting by any means and basically have anything they would need or really even want handed to them.
Are you saying opinions can't be wrong? I didn't say that. I simply said it won't happen.
Great question. Probably Coach K. That way the players he wants he will label as non-elite.
This has been out less than half a day and it's already a cluster#^@$.Even ESPN openly says it solves nothing,Greenberg doesn't like it at least until someone tells him he does.
This is as near to nothing as it could be,the NCAA has outdone themselves.USA basketball (who is going to decide who is or is not elite wants nothing to do with it per ESPN
This is as near to nothing as it could be,the NCAA has outdone themselves.USA basketball (who is going to decide who is or is not elite wants nothing to do with it per ESPN
In some instances, yes. However, I am just stating what I think would be a good option and possible solution to several issues. However, you said "You're wrong on this, it will never ever happen." I never said it would happen, just what I would do, or would like to. So I am not sure how you prove that. It could perhaps be implemented and tested to find out, but I too highly doubt that occurs. As I do not work for the NCAA or any of their committees. So not really sure how we can ever prove this right or wrong. It's simply message board conjecture by one post with which you don't agree. It would me like me saying you are wrong for disagreeing. Can we ever really prove that? Of course not, it's simply opinion.
Well, technically no, which I can say because it can be easily proven factual. See, you said I was wrong and it would never happen. Both of which are affirmations of my post, which weren't reasonably affirm-able. And an affirmation is more than mere opinion.
There's no fixing it. It's STUPID. They will have to drop this. It can only be lawyers wanting more action, that's all I can figure. I'm not even sure it's legal in most states to allow high school kids to sign with agents.
Not in Alabama. https://www.businessinsider.com/former-nfl-agent-2010-10
Amateurism is out the window. "Student-Athlete" is becoming a total misnomer.
The changes do take affect immediately but there is a caveat written in that says some of them do not take affect (high school kids signing agents) until there are appropriate rule changes made by the NBA and NBAPA, i.e. getting rid of the one and done.
What about football players,if they declare and go un-drafted(in 1st round can they return? If not do they hire a lawyer and sue the NCAA? Maybe some are elite football players coming out of high school,can those players hire and agent for a couple of years down the road?
What if and elite player is injured in an all-star game is he still elite?
What if and elite player is injured in an all-star game is he still elite?
Again, I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I never tried to say otherwise. The NCAA is very corrupt and has always protected certain schools from punishment when they clearly deserved it. There has been a lot of smoke around programs like Duke and Kansas for years yet they have never gone looking for fires. I agree. My point is that once the FBI investigation is done (which we have no idea what they've found or how much longer it will last) if they have evidence, stone cold hard evidence, that a school like Kansas or Duke cheated the NCAA can't ignore it. It remains to be seen though what kind of evidence the FBI has uncovered so far and what it proves, or if they even turn over their findings to the NCAA. But this isn't like past infraction cases, the FBI is involved. If the FBI turns over evidence, the NCAA can't ignore it, and the new rules won't protect them. The new rules in no way can be used by the NCAA to justify not punishing past violations. That is my point.
As far as your concern about high school kids waiting to graduate and then signing agents before college, that is still not allowed unless they are an elite recruit. Think of them as "college prospects" instead of "high school kids". That group is going to be small on a yearly basis, probably less than 20 a year, and most of them will get drafted. It's not going to be this big mess of high schoolers with agents negotiating playing time and extra benefits like you are imagining.
Only a few kids do it now because college is still the more attractive option. If the NCAA puts even more restrictions of players, then overseas in Europe and Australia or the G-League will become more attractive. It could have a snowball effect and do irreparable damage to college basketball. The NBA will never implement a 3 and done rule, they are heading towards letting players go straight from high school again. The NCAA can't enforce a financial penalty on amateurs that are trying to pursue pro careers, I'm pretty sure that would violate about every single workers' rights law.
If the NCAA had hit UNC hard none of this would be happening.Schools would have been hesitant to hop on the shoe company money train,some kids and parents/handlers would have had their hand out for money but schools would have been more aware and cautious.