How does Penn State wrestling do it?

[PhilaPhans]

I'm not talking about how their wrestlers can be so good. They have so many top wrestlers. They're obviously the top team.

My question is more of ... how do they manage all those top wrestlers under the scholarship cap? Obviously PA is rich in talent, but they recruit from everywhere. Do kids give up better scholarships at other top schools just to wrestle for Cael?

 

[ruready07]

not a direct answer to your question, but there is so much scholarship money out there and other financial vehicles that can be packaged together to make tuition very, very low for an athlete.
Non-scholarship 1aa schools mastered this when I was playing ball.

Not sure how pen does it exactly though.

 

[obrats_rivals]

I'm not talking about how their wrestlers can be so good. They have so many top wrestlers. They're obviously the top team.

My question is more of ... how do they manage all those top wrestlers under the scholarship cap? Obviously PA is rich in talent, but they recruit from everywhere. Do kids give up better scholarships at other top schools just to wrestle for Cael?

I have to think yes to that question.

 

[Jaroslav Hasek_rivals324816]

and even Penn State and Cael have their limits. Thomas Haines decomitted after they recruited Nick Nevills at heavyweight, not to mention a guy like Jordan Pagano transferring. there's lot of rumors (non-sh1tliner ones) about a middle weight trasnfering due to the log jam with nolf, joseph, hall, nickal, morelli, rasheed, manville.

I actually think Oklahoma State's roster is more ridiculous with depth then Penn State's. Cael has been getting more of the super elites, the top 10 p4p guys, but John Smith has like, 3 or 4 full line ups worth of D1 caliber starters on his squad. plenty of guys transfer out by junior year but every year he loads up with even more hammers.

 

[obrats_rivals]

and even Penn State and Cael have their limits. Thomas Haines decomitted after they recruited Nick Nevills at heavyweight, not to mention a guy like Jordan Pagano transferring. there's lot of rumors (non-sh1tliner ones) about a middle weight trasnfering due to the log jam with nolf, joseph, hall, nickal, morelli, rasheed, manville.

I actually think Oklahoma State's roster is more ridiculous with depth then Penn State's. Cael has been getting more of the super elites, the top 10 p4p guys, but John Smith has like, 3 or 4 full line ups worth of D1 caliber starters on his squad. plenty of guys transfer out by junior year but every year he loads up with even more hammers.

I think Oklahoma State's 3rd string 141 pounder would be a round of 12 guy at NCAA's this year.

 

[KidDagger]

I think Oklahoma State's 3rd string 141 pounder would be a round of 12 guy at NCAA's this year.

who's their third stringer? I know one of their backups, Boo L., had the upset win over Meredith

 

[KidDagger]

and even Penn State and Cael have their limits. Thomas Haines decomitted after they recruited Nick Nevills at heavyweight, not to mention a guy like Jordan Pagano transferring. there's lot of rumors (non-sh1tliner ones) about a middle weight trasnfering due to the log jam with nolf, joseph, hall, nickal, morelli, rasheed, manville.

I actually think Oklahoma State's roster is more ridiculous with depth then Penn State's. Cael has been getting more of the super elites, the top 10 p4p guys, but John Smith has like, 3 or 4 full line ups worth of D1 caliber starters on his squad. plenty of guys transfer out by junior year but every year he loads up with even more hammers.

Haines wasn't going to be a backup to Nevills...tbh Pagano has developed nicely here at RU. I didn't expect him to make quite the impact so fast.. The middle weight logjam of PSU is more crazy becuz its all top 10 p4p guys coming out of hs... It's like recruiting 6 Anthony Ashnaults to start at 4 weights... like seriously how is Manville going to get in their lineup with Nolf, Hall, Zain, Joseph all returning next year.

 

[obrats_rivals]

who's their third stringer? I know one of their backups, Boo L., had the upset win over Meredith

http://www.wrestlestat.com/wrestler/39545/moran-tristan/profile

 

[KidDagger]

http://www.wrestlestat.com/wrestler/39545/moran-tristan/profile

I don't know about round of 12 . 141 is pretty stacked this year. Moran got some pretty good wins, mainly, the one over Thorne. However he also lost to stanford's backup. No doubt this Moran cat would be a solid d1 starter though. Which begs the question would u rather be a starter at x wrestling program or a backup to a powerhouse program?

 

[ro89ru]

not a direct answer to your question, but there is so much scholarship money out there and other financial vehicles that can be packaged together to make tuition very, very low for an athlete.
Non-scholarship 1aa schools mastered this when I was playing ball.

Not sure how pen does it exactly though.

Look no further than Dinmore as an example that top kids pass on scholarships to join good programs. All top programs will always have high quality wrestlers who want a chance to work their way in. The question is how do you manage it. It looks like PSU does a very good job keeping quality wrestlers hanging around the program by leveraging their club.

At the very minimum it raises the quality of the club room, and that attracts even more high quality kids to come in. It creates a pipeline of non-scholarship kids who could potentially step up, instead of trying to scramble to fill individual roster holes due to surprise injuries, transfers, grade issues, etc.

 

[andegre_rivals]

I ran a report the other day for the number of wrestlers ranked in the top 33 by team.....OSU had 21...then enxt closest was about 12 (don't remember the school).

 

[Abro1975]

That said. I think Penn St will be Ok St by double digits.

 

[zwicker]

Haines wasn't going to be a backup to Nevills...tbh Pagano has developed nicely here at RU. I didn't expect him to make quite the impact so fast.. The middle weight logjam of PSU is more crazy becuz its all top 10 p4p guys coming out of hs... It's like recruiting 6 Anthony Ashnaults to start at 4 weights... like seriously how is Manville going to get in their lineup with Nolf, Hall, Zain, Joseph all returning next year.

Zain has one more year and many expect Nickal to move up a weight again. 5 wrestlers in 4 weights is not exactly a big log jam. They are one injury away from having an open weight class. Manville will be a Freshman next year, Zain(SR), Hall(So), Nolf(Jr) and Joseph(Jr).

PSU also has LESS depth at a lot of weights. NO backup heavyweight. NONE. Last year when Nevils went down they had to pull a walk on from the football team to wrestle. Nobody at 133 when Cortez went down . I don't think they have a backup at 125.

Haines was going to be Nevills backup. That is why Cael went after Nevills.

 

[Jaroslav Hasek_rivals324816]

Haines was going to be Nevills backup. That is why Cael went after Nevills.

there is no way Haines thought he was being recruited to be a back up. he decommitted as soon as Nevills committed and transferred from Ohio State as soon as Snyder moved up. I have no idea what Cael did or didn't tell him but Haines obviously was not cool being a career back up at the D1 level.

you also think Nickal is moving up to 197? first I'd heard of it but I suppose it's not impossible.

 

[KidDagger]

Zain has one more year and many expect Nickal to move up a weight again. 5 wrestlers in 4 weights is not exactly a big log jam. They are one injury away from having an open weight class. Manville will be a Freshman next year, Zain(SR), Hall(So), Nolf(Jr) and Joseph(Jr).

PSU also has LESS depth at a lot of weights. NO backup heavyweight. NONE. Last year when Nevils went down they had to pull a walk on from the football team to wrestle. Nobody at 133 when Cortez went down . I don't think they have a backup at 125.

Haines was going to be Nevills backup. That is why Cael went after Nevills.

PSU seems to go after the top quality kids over recruiting a big wrestling class.

Zain has one more year and many expect Nickal to move up a weight again. 5 wrestlers in 4 weights is not exactly a big log jam. They are one injury away from having an open weight class. Manville will be a Freshman next year, Zain(SR), Hall(So), Nolf(Jr) and Joseph(Jr).

PSU also has LESS depth at a lot of weights. NO backup heavyweight. NONE. Last year when Nevils went down they had to pull a walk on from the football team to wrestle. Nobody at 133 when Cortez went down . I don't think they have a backup at 125.

Haines was going to be Nevills backup. That is why Cael went after Nevills.

No way was Haines recruited to be a backup.. he was the 9th overall recruit in 2014 class... Once Nevill, the 5th overall recruit, committed to PSU it's kind of a slap to Haines face since that forced him to decommit.

Also not sure how Nickel going to 97 would effect Manville, who is a middle weight. Bc then it seems Shakur would take 84 or McCutcheon

 

[zwicker]

PSU seems to go after the top quality kids over recruiting a big wrestling class.

No way was Haines recruited to be a backup.. he was the 9th overall recruit in 2014 class... Once Nevill, the 5th overall recruit, committed to PSU it's kind of a slap to Haines face since that forced him to decommit.

Also not sure how Nickel going to 97 would effect Manville, who is a middle weight. Bc then it seems Shakur would take 84 or McCutcheon

It is not rocket science. When one wrestler moves up it creates a space for others to move up. PSU did the same thing a few years ago whe Quinten moved up, Ruth moved up and created some space for someone.

I did not say Haines was recruited to be a backup. He was recruited as a starter but once Nevills commited then Haines got bumped to backup. That is life. Do you think Haines was recruited to be a started by OSU who had Snyder?


Would you slap Ash in the face if you could trade him for Urban or Saban?

 

[KidDagger]

It is not rocket science. When one wrestler moves up it creates a space for others to move up. PSU did the same thing a few years ago whe Quinten moved up, Ruth moved up and created some space for someone.

I did not say Haines was recruited to be a backup. He was recruited as a starter but once Nevills commited then Haines got bumped to backup. That is life. Do you think Haines was recruited to be a started by OSU who had Snyder?


Would you slap Ash in the face if you could trade him for Urban or Saban?

Well, I haven't heard of Bo moving up to 97 and like I said even if he flip flopped weights with Mccutcheon(current 97) or if Shakur wins 84 spot.. it doesn't create any additional space for Manville at the middle weights but I get what u r saying.

 

[Jaroslav Hasek_rivals324816]

I did not say Haines was recruited to be a backup. He was recruited as a starter but once Nevills commited then Haines got bumped to backup. That is life. Do you think Haines was recruited to be a started by OSU who had Snyder?

yes, Haines was definitely recruited as a starter at tOSU. Snyder was going to be 197 all through college until he (and the coaches) decided he should bump up to heavyweight after he won a world championship at 97kg (214.5 lbs with day before weigh ins).

We agree that PSU does not have OKSt's depth but OKSt is the exception, not the rule. they still have exceptional depth compared to the rest of D1.

no program has a blue chip top 10 recruit blocked from starting for the next 4 years like it appears Manville is. MAYBE you see a guy sit on the bench a year or two like when Gilman had to wait a year when Clark was at 125 and Ramos 133, but that is super rare. you just don't see anyone assembles the kind of the kind of top teir recruits that Cael does right now. Maybe Iowa back in Gable's heyday. so yeah, if one of PSU's potential natty champs goes down with injury, they don't have another one ready to take his place in the line up. welcome to the club!

 

[Goldbanger]

Follow very closely Penn State wrestling and this is the first time I've heard even a rumor of Bo going to 197, he wants to be at 84 because it is closest to the international weight of 86 kilos or 189.2 pounds. Most of what is written above is correct in that there are not many backups which can be effective in our lineup, witness 133. Manville does present a problem, will he want to sit or challenge for a spot? Will he wait his turn? I believe the jury is still out on that score.

The real trick is can you win a national title with less than a full lineup at Nationals. This is why our coaching staff stresses bonus point production throughout the year. In dual meets, our guys push for bonus point wins even with a match in hand, it is all about the end result at NCAAs. Bonus points in the National tournament fills that hole we have at 133 with Cortez out for the year.

 

[bryanmills]

Follow very closely Penn State wrestling and this is the first time I've heard even a rumor of Bo going to 197, he wants to be at 84 because it is closest to the international weight of 86 kilos or 189.2 pounds. Most of what is written above is correct in that there are not many backups which can be effective in our lineup, witness 133. Manville does present a problem, will he want to sit or challenge for a spot? Will he wait his turn? I believe the jury is still out on that score.

The real trick is can you win a national title with less than a full lineup at Nationals. This is why our coaching staff stresses bonus point production throughout the year. In dual meets, our guys push for bonus point wins even with a match in hand, it is all about the end result at NCAAs. Bonus points in the National tournament fills that hole we have at 133 with Cortez out for the year.

This. Cael recruits guys that are or can become bonus point machines and then pretty much ignores the weight class for a while and fills in the others with multiple kids who have to fight it out until he finds a hammer for that particular weight class. Having Zain/Nolf and Nickal (I'll leave Suriano out of the mix but he's very aware of the score at all times) in the lineup is like having AT LEAST one extra wrestler at a tourney and probably closer to two. If you expand it to Suriano and Hall now you are looking at five tourney guys who have the potential to equate to having three additional wrestlers when it comes to scoring. They all have that same mindset too which definitely comes from Cael and being in that room every day.

Let's call it how it is. Everything these guys have done up until now is just preparation for being able to bonus out as many matches as possible at B1G and then NCAAs.

 

[KidDagger]

This. Cael recruits guys that are or can become bonus point machines and then pretty much ignores the weight class for a while and fills in the others with multiple kids who have to fight it out until he finds a hammer for that particular weight class. Having Zain/Nolf and Nickal (I'll leave Suriano out of the mix but he's very aware of the score at all times) in the lineup is like having AT LEAST one extra wrestler at a tourney and probably closer to two. If you expand it to Suriano and Hall now you are looking at five tourney guys who have the potential to equate to having three additional wrestlers when it comes to scoring. They all have that same mindset too which definitely comes from Cael and being in that room every day.

Let's call it how it is. Everything these guys have done up until now is just preparation for being able to bonus out as many matches as possible at B1G and then NCAAs.

Agreed, it's not a hard equation. They just recruit the best wrestlers in the nation, whom in turn ends up statistically most likely to dominate their competition in d1, which equates to the best odds of landing a "bonus point machine".

Sometimes it feels almost unfair how many blue chippers Cael is able to land. I wanna c Cael find the diamond in the rough type of recruits. Recruits not heralded coming out of high school that develop into awesome wrestlers. Gabe Dean, of Cornell, comes to mind as he wasn't even a top 100 recruit coming out of hs.

 

[zwicker]

yes, Haines was definitely recruited as a starter at tOSU. Snyder was going to be 197 all through college until he (and the coaches) decided he should bump up to heavyweight after he won a world championship at 97kg (214.5 lbs with day before weigh ins).

We agree that PSU does not have OKSt's depth but OKSt is the exception, not the rule. they still have exceptional depth compared to the rest of D1.

no program has a blue chip top 10 recruit blocked from starting for the next 4 years like it appears Manville is. MAYBE you see a guy sit on the bench a year or two like when Gilman had to wait a year when Clark was at 125 and Ramos 133, but that is super rare. you just don't see anyone assembles the kind of the kind of top teir recruits that Cael does right now. Maybe Iowa back in Gable's heyday. so yeah, if one of PSU's potential natty champs goes down with injury, they don't have another one ready to take his place in the line up. welcome to the club!

Except Haines did not start even when Snyder was at 197.

Haines was blocked for 4 years. Kind of shoots down your point that no programs has a blue chip top 10 recruits blocked. Marsteller was the #1 recruit coming out and he was not cracking the OkState lineup.

There are TONS of guys who are blocked. Do you think PSU is the only school that has wrestle offs?

The middle weights are the easiest to make it work. Someone can move up and someone can move down. 125 and 285 are where you have problems because there is nowhere to move up or down. They have redshirts available and there are also injuries so 5 wreslters in 4 weights is nothing.

I get it. YOu think someone from PSU is going to transfer to RU.

 

[obrats_rivals]

Except Haines did not start even when Snyder was at 197.

Haines was blocked for 4 years. Kind of shoots down your point that no programs has a blue chip top 10 recruits blocked. Marsteller was the #1 recruit coming out and he was not cracking the OkState lineup.

There are TONS of guys who are blocked. Do you think PSU is the only school that has wrestle offs?

The middle weights are the easiest to make it work. Someone can move up and someone can move down. 125 and 285 are where you have problems because there is nowhere to move up or down. They have redshirts available and there are also injuries so 5 wreslters in 4 weights is nothing.

I get it. YOu think someone from PSU is going to transfer to RU.

Haines didn't start when Snyder was at 197 because the plan was for him to redshirt that year.

Blocked for 4 years, where are you coming up with that? He would have been battling with Tavanello for the starting job. He lost to Tavanello 5-3 at an open tournament, so that could have gone anyway. Lets say he doesn't win the spot over Tavanello he would have started at 285 his Junior and Senior year (not to mention Tavanello is out this year, so Haines would have started for 3 years if Snyder stayed at 197.

 

[Jaroslav Hasek_rivals324816]

Except Haines did not start even when Snyder was at 197.

Haines was blocked for 4 years. Kind of shoots down your point that no programs has a blue chip top 10 recruits blocked. Marsteller was the #1 recruit coming out and he was not cracking the OkState lineup.

There are TONS of guys who are blocked. Do you think PSU is the only school that has wrestle offs?

The middle weights are the easiest to make it work. Someone can move up and someone can move down. 125 and 285 are where you have problems because there is nowhere to move up or down. They have redshirts available and there are also injuries so 5 wreslters in 4 weights is nothing.

I get it. YOu think someone from PSU is going to transfer to RU.

LOL we're back to the sh!tiner tansfer rumor.

relax guy, I'm complimenting Penn State on their recruiting. your team is good! congrats!

 

[zwicker]

Haines didn't start when Snyder was at 197 because the plan was for him to redshirt that year.

Blocked for 4 years, where are you coming up with that? He would have been battling with Tavanello for the starting job. He lost to Tavanello 5-3 at an open tournament, so that could have gone anyway. Lets say he doesn't win the spot over Tavanello he would have started at 285 his Junior and Senior year (not to mention Tavanello is out this year, so Haines would have started for 3 years if Snyder stayed at 197.

I am talking REALITY and you are talking hypothetical. The reality is Snyder moved up and Haines was blocked for 4 years. Jaroslav made the point that no top 10 recruits are blocked. It happens.

The OP wanted to know how PSU does it and all you have to do is look. PSU had even MORE depth when they won 4 straight and they had multiple NATIONAL champs and AAs at the SAME weight.

In 2011/2012 from 149 to 197, PSU had Frank MOlinaro(National champ), Dylan Alton(top 10 recruit) Andrew Alton(top 10 recruit), James English(AA), Jim Volrath(won Southern Scuffle), David Taylor(champ), Ed Ruth(champ), Matt Brown(champ), Quentin Wright(champ), Morgan Mcintosh(AA). I might even be missing someone.

Like I said, 5 wrestlers at 4 weights is not that big a log jam. They are one injury away from having 4 wrestlers at 4 weights. Zain will be a senior and some kids redshirt. What is the problem? Do you follow college football? There are 5 star QBs that sit the bench for 4 years and have 4 kids in front of them.

 

[PhilaPhans]

zwicker, the difference between wrestling and football is that football has 85 full scholarships. A school isn't likely to spend a lot of money on, essentially, a wrestling backup even if it's top 10 material because scholarships are so limited. My guess is they'd rather fill emptier spots. I think that's why he's saying it can't be very common for this to happen without kids taking a "pay" cut.

 

[Jaroslav Hasek_rivals324816]

I am talking REALITY and you are talking hypothetical. The reality is Snyder moved up and Haines was blocked for 4 years. Jaroslav made the point that no top 10 recruits are blocked. It happens.

The OP wanted to know how PSU does it and all you have to do is look. PSU had even MORE depth when they won 4 straight and they had multiple NATIONAL champs and AAs at the SAME weight.

In 2011/2012 from 149 to 197, PSU had Frank MOlinaro(National champ), Dylan Alton(top 10 recruit) Andrew Alton(top 10 recruit), James English(AA), Jim Volrath(won Southern Scuffle), David Taylor(champ), Ed Ruth(champ), Matt Brown(champ), Quentin Wright(champ), Morgan Mcintosh(AA). I might even be missing someone.

Like I said, 5 wrestlers at 4 weights is not that big a log jam. They are one injury away from having 4 wrestlers at 4 weights. Zain will be a senior and some kids redshirt. What is the problem? Do you follow college football? There are 5 star QBs that sit the bench for 4 years and have 4 kids in front of them.

lol dude calm down.

Haines actually wasn't blocked (in reality) because he transferred. before he transferred he wasn't blocked (in reality) because Snyder was at 97 and was recruited at 97. so I have no idea what point you keep trying to make.

PSU over recruited their middle weights. this isn't a secret. it's also exceedingly rare because of scholarship limits. that PSU can still managed to do something like that speaks to the incredible recruiting ability of Cael. that is how PSU does it - Cael is good - also not a secret!

I don't know why you keep bringing up injuries. every team is one injury away from having their best kids not in the line up.