How do you beat man coverage?

[Deeringfish]

Since we can't do much about forcing a coaching change except maybe not renew our season tickets for those of us who are season ticket holders. I would like someone to tell be how to beat man coverage. Seems to me that not being able to beat man coverage means that every guy on their side is better than every guy on our side. How do you beat that?
So with out talking about coaching changes, what do you do to beat man coverage? Please keep the lingo down as I don't always know the terms.

 

[pawildcat_rivals209725]

I agree we need to get a better passing attack, but don't think I'd seriously consider not renewing my season tickets after a 10-3 season.

 

[NJCat83588]

I agree we need to get a better passing attack, but don't think I'd seriously consider not renewing my season tickets after a 10-3 season.

I'm curious why you buy season tickets? Economically, it makes no sense given the robust secondary market that has emerged in recent years. NU almost never sells out and plenty of seats are available for most games such that you can buy at a huge discount to face value or even average season ticket holder price. So what advantage is there to being a season ticket holder?

 

[willycat]

I'm curious why you buy season tickets? Economically, it makes no sense given the robust secondary market that has emerged in recent years. NU almost never sells out and plenty of seats are available for most games such that you can buy at a huge discount to face value or even average season ticket holder price. So what advantage is there to being a season ticket holder?

For a starter, how about supporting NU's athletic programs. You do notice that the most successful programs do sell out their stadiums and mostly through ST purchases. or I guess you could sit at home in front of your 52' TV and ***** about the program.

 

[Gocatsgo2003]

No real magic bullet. There are various techniques, but it mostly boils down to having WRs who aren't significantly "out-athleted" by DBs. We don't have those guys.

 

[pawildcat_rivals209725]

I'm curious why you buy season tickets? Economically, it makes no sense given the robust secondary market that has emerged in recent years. NU almost never sells out and plenty of seats are available for most games such that you can buy at a huge discount to face value or even average season ticket holder price. So what advantage is there to being a season ticket holder?

Supporting my school's football program?

 

[NJCat83588]

Supporting my school's football program?

You could do that by making a specific donation every year to the program, in addition to buying tickets to the games you want to see.

 

[della]

Since we can't do much about forcing a coaching change except maybe not renew our season tickets for those of us who are season ticket holders. I would like someone to tell be how to beat man coverage. Seems to me that not being able to beat man coverage means that every guy on their side is better than every guy on our side. How do you beat that?
So with out talking about coaching changes, what do you do to beat man coverage? Please keep the lingo down as I don't always know the terms.

You beat man coverage with a better man.

A gifted receiver that is fast, precise and tall that runs excellent routes.

 

[pawildcat_rivals209725]

You could do that by making a specific donation every year to the program, in addition to buying tickets to the games you want to see.

If the idea is primarily to save money, why would I make an additional donation? This seems like questionable logic to me.

 

[chicagocatfan24]

You beat man coverage with a better man.

A gifted receiver that is fast, precise and tall that runs excellent routes.

I'm no expert but this seems like the simplest, yet most logical answer

 

[NJCat83588]

If the idea is primarily to save money, why would I make an additional donation? This seems like questionable logic to me.

Strictly on an economic basis, one should pay market price for each transaction. Supporting the athletic department can take many forms, but overpaying for a seat is less optimum than paying market price and then making an independent decision to contribute to the athletic department. Whatever. I was just curious about your logic. I'm not saying you are wrong, it's your money to spend as you see fit.

 

[Deeringfish]

I'm curious why you buy season tickets? Economically, it makes no sense given the robust secondary market that has emerged in recent years. NU almost never sells out and plenty of seats are available for most games such that you can buy at a huge discount to face value or even average season ticket holder price. So what advantage is there to being a season ticket holder?

My family has been buying the same four seats on the north forty yard line about 8 rows under the upper deck since just after WW II. I like to support the program and sit in the seats I sat in with my Dad. So it's kind of a home tradition thing. I'm pretty nostalgic about the seats. I can't go home because that is sold but I can go to that familiar place. I only wish the men still smoked cigars in the stands.

 

[Deeringfish]

I'm no expert but this seems like the simplest, yet most logical answer

So CJ's criticism that McCall's has a limited playbook for beating man coverage is BS?

 

[shakes3858]

No real magic bullet. There are various techniques, but it mostly boils down to having WRs who aren't significantly "out-athleted" by DBs. We don't have those guys.

What do you think about doing bunch formations? 1 WR on the line with him being flanked on either side by WRs a yard behind the line. If the defense goes into press coverage, the defense ends up running into each other as well as having the offensive players doing screens and rubs

 

[Gocatsgo2003]

What do you think about doing bunch formations? 1 WR on the line with him being flanked on either side by WRs a yard behind the line. If the defense goes into press coverage, the defense ends up running into each other as well as having the offensive players doing screens and rubs

There's some merit to it, but effectiveness would still be limited by the limited athleticism amongst our WRs.

 

[shakes3858]

If the idea is primarily to save money, why would I make an additional donation? This seems like questionable logic to me.

Let's say you pay 300 bucks for a season ticket but can buy them on the black market for 150. Then you donate 150 bucks to the university. The university could (in theory) benefit because they sold the tickets to Nebraska fans who tried to recover as much of the cost as possible. As such, they get that revenue plus the donation. This would only make sense though if they sell out... Which they don't.

Then you pay equal money for the ticket, but you get a right off on the 150 donation. Let's call that about 40 bucked.

 

[chicagocatfan24]

So CJ's criticism that McCall's has a limited playbook for beating man coverage is BS?

Didn't read it yet. I guess you missed the preface of "I'm no expert".

 

[stpaulcat]

I'm curious why you buy season tickets? Economically, it makes no sense given the robust secondary market that has emerged in recent years. NU almost never sells out and plenty of seats are available for most games such that you can buy at a huge discount to face value or even average season ticket holder price. So what advantage is there to being a season ticket holder?

"So what advantage is there to being a season ticket holder?"

The advantage is to the student athletes who are being supported?

 

[pawildcat_rivals209725]

Let's say you pay 300 bucks for a season ticket but can buy them on the black market for 150. Then you donate 150 bucks to the university. The university could (in theory) benefit because they sold the tickets to Nebraska fans who tried to recover as much of the cost as possible. As such, they get that revenue plus the donation. This would only make sense though if they sell out... Which they don't.

Then you pay equal money for the ticket, but you get a right off on the 150 donation. Let's call that about 40 bucked.

Well, this seems like a lot of mental gymnastics for a $150 tax write-off, which isn't going to amount to a heck of a lot anyway since I'm retired. And I buy the tickets in partnership with another guy so every game we attend we're basically getting two tickets for one. The others we can sell or donate back to the university.

 

[Kiteboarder]

The first thing you have to do to beat man-up is to recognize it. That's pretty easy to do when sitting in the coaches boxes up high. It's also something the average fan doesn't do. Next time you're at a game, and it's third and long, stop watching the flow of the ball and open up your field of vision to watch all of the wideouts run their patterns. At the same time watch the defenders so you can start to recognize the coverage. As I've mentioned before, NU tends to run flood/vacate zone patterns which is fine against zone defenses, but pretty worthless against man to man. From what I have seen, this seems to be part of the problem.

The second thing is to recognize how the DBs are playing you. Are they in press or buffer? Third thing is, what is the individual DBs tendencies? Is he overly aggressive, playing very tight on short patterns and does he bite on the first deke, or is he more concerned with the deep ball, and give you a cushion. Does he have a weak side? How does he play a cross - does he switch or stay? Does he favor boundry or field coverage. How does he defend a down and out? How does he defend a curl, a fly? Can you get him on the wrong lead? Finally, your route has to be "crisp". If it's a down and out, the cut should be hard 90 degree at as close to full speed as you can go. Same for down and in and a "Z" out or in. If your defender is faster than you, you must get him to bite.

If you are a WR, or WR coach, these are some of the things you learn to look for. None of this is rocket science, and as I've said before, you don't have to be faster to get open, unless you're Willy Gault.

 

[StreamCat]

My family has been buying the same four seats on the north forty yard line about 8 rows under the upper deck since just after WW II. I like to support the program and sit in the seats I sat in with my Dad. So it's kind of a home tradition thing. I'm pretty nostalgic about the seats. I can't go home because that is sold but I can go to that familiar place. I only wish the men still smoked cigars in the stands.

I'm curious why you buy season tickets? Economically, it makes no sense given the robust secondary market that has emerged in recent years. NU almost never sells out and plenty of seats are available for most games such that you can buy at a huge discount to face value or even average season ticket holder price. So what advantage is there to being a season ticket holder?

6 midfield tickets for friends and family plus parking passes. That's why.

 

[mybrotha]

You beat man coverage with a better man.

A gifted receiver that is fast, precise and tall that runs excellent routes.

That's way off the mark. Some of our best receivers in the past twenty years did not have those abilities. Lane, Markshausen (SP) Musso etc were open 24/7. Bilitnikoff, Largent etc. are the same, It's the ability to get off the line, often through great technique in hand checking, then a precise route and the QBs faith in that player to trhow a ball to a spot knowing he will be there and then in his ability to make that catch.

 

[della]

That's way off the mark. Some of our best receivers in the past twenty years did not have those abilities. Lane, Markshausen (SP) Musso etc were open 24/7. Bilitnikoff, Largent etc. are the same, It's the ability to get off the line, often through great technique in hand checking, then a precise route and the QBs faith in that player to trhow a ball to a spot knowing he will be there and then in his ability to make that catch.

If a receiver does not have some special talent to create separation, they will not be very successful. So, you are wrong in saying I'm wrong.

 

[footballphilreturns]

If a receiver does not have some special talent to create separation, they will not be very successful. So, you are wrong in saying I'm wrong.

They need speed. Thankfully I was running a 4.4 by 15years old.


Phil

 

[della]

They need speed. Thankfully I was running a 4.4 by 15years old.


Phil

Regretfully, your eligibility has expired old timer.

 

[footballphilreturns]

Regretfully, your eligibility has expired old timer.

No worries. 4 collegiate wrestling championships make up for it.


Btw, I am timeless.


Off to bench 600 for reps.

Phil

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

So CJ's criticism that McCall's has a limited playbook for beating man coverage is BS?

Someone has to be responsible for lack of development and poor performance.

 

[shakes3858]

There's some merit to it, but effectiveness would still be limited by the limited athleticism amongst our WRs.

Ok better athletes will help... But what about next year? Either Wilson and Scanlan get a whole lot better real quick to add to Austin Carr or we're going to be minimally really young at WR. We could be young and athletically, but how much is a true freshman or redshirt freshman going to change the world?

In the meantime, Fitz, McCall and Springer need to come up with 1000 different ways to break man coverage. Is that bunch formations with rubs and screens? Is that sending a WR in motion and snapping the ball while he's moving (i.e. Give him a running start)? I'm up to 2. 998 to go.

 

[della]

Someone has to be responsible for lack of development and poor performance.

I would first look towards Shakes and Turk, but that is just an outsider opinion.

 

[techtim72]

I love the way two story lines play out in this thread. Kind of like Tarrantino in "Pulp Fiction". Waiting for the stories to intersect. Perhaps a wide receiver will transfer who's family sits three rows behind Deeringfish.

 

[mybrotha]

If a receiver does not have some special talent to create separation, they will not be very successful. So, you are wrong in saying I'm wrong.

Of course talent comes into play. Welker ran a 4.7 and his talent was being a great route runner and being smart. If you are not a great athlete which most are not, other utilities come into play. For example Ted Ginn Jr. has great speed and athleticism but a lousy set of hands and thus will never go down as a great receiver.

 

[della]

Of course talent comes into play. Welker ran a 4.7 and his talent was being a great route runner and being smart. If you are not a great athlete which most are not, other utilities come into play. For example Ted Ginn Jr. has great speed and athleticism but a lousy set of hands and thus will never go down as a great receiver.

My original point was that you beat man coverage with a better man. I did not set the criteria for better. So, what is it that you disagree with?

 

[DaCat]

The first thing you have to do to beat man-up is to recognize it. That's pretty easy to do when sitting in the coaches boxes up high. It's also something the average fan doesn't do. Next time you're at a game, and it's third and long, stop watching the flow of the ball and open up your field of vision to watch all of the wideouts run their patterns. At the same time watch the defenders so you can start to recognize the coverage. As I've mentioned before, NU tends to run flood/vacate zone patterns which is fine against zone defenses, but pretty worthless against man to man. From what I have seen, this seems to be part of the problem.

The second thing is to recognize how the DBs are playing you. Are they in press or buffer? Third thing is, what is the individual DBs tendencies? Is he overly aggressive, playing very tight on short patterns and does he bite on the first deke, or is he more concerned with the deep ball, and give you a cushion. Does he have a weak side? How does he play a cross - does he switch or stay? Does he favor boundry or field coverage. How does he defend a down and out? How does he defend a curl, a fly? Can you get him on the wrong lead? Finally, your route has to be "crisp". If it's a down and out, the cut should be hard 90 degree at as close to full speed as you can go. Same for down and in and a "Z" out or in. If your defender is faster than you, you must get him to bite.

If you are a WR, or WR coach, these are some of the things you learn to look for. None of this is rocket science, and as I've said before, you don't have to be faster to get open, unless you're Willy Gault.

I would hire WaveJumper and a tennis ball machine to replace Springer.

 

[Kiteboarder]

I vote for the tennis ball machine. More versatile (can be used for tennis also) than an old guy that can't run patterns anymore after 13 surgeries.

 

[hdhntr1]

B

No real magic bullet. There are various techniques, but it mostly boils down to having WRs who aren't significantly "out-athleted" by DBs. We don't have those guys.

But shouldn't the O player generally have an advantage in that they know where they are going and the DB has to react? Wouldn't good precise routes help create that advantage? There are plenty of examples of lesser athletes that get open consistently. Guys like Zeke M probably wasn't out athleteing anyone but routinely got open and there are plenty of other examples. It just seems that the routes of our receivers don't get the job done against anyone. And when they do get open, they drop the ball.

Look, I am not saying having better athletes won't help. Just that I would expect better out of what we have.

 

[Kiteboarder]

But shouldn't the O player generally have an advantage in that they know where they are going and the DB has to react? Wouldn't good precise routes help create that advantage?

YES. Especially your second question!

 

[Gocatsgo2003]

B

But shouldn't the O player generally have an advantage in that they know where they are going and the DB has to react? Wouldn't good precise routes help create that advantage? There are plenty of examples of lesser athletes that get open consistently. Guys like Zeke M probably wasn't out athleteing anyone but routinely got open and there are plenty of other examples. It just seems that the routes of our receivers don't get the job done against anyone. And when they do get open, they drop the ball.

Look, I am not saying having better athletes won't help. Just that I would expect better out of what we have.

Sure, but if the DB is enough of an athlete then it doesn't make much difference. The corner will just use his superior recovery speed to stay with the WR.

Zeke doesn't get enough credit. He was definitely "quicker than fast," but he ran a legitimate 40 in the mid-4.5s for NFL scouts on Pro Day (which was actually faster than Brewer). His 10-yard split of 1.58 and 20-yard split of 2.63 are actually quite good, showing his explosiveness in space but lack of true top-end speed. That's why he was an effective underneath WR, but didn't threaten defenses much downfield.

 

[shakes3858]

Sure, but if the DB is enough of an athlete then it doesn't make much difference. The corner will just use his superior recovery speed to stay with the WR.

Zeke doesn't get enough credit. He was definitely "quicker than fast," but he ran a legitimate 40 in the mid-4.5s for NFL scouts on Pro Day (which was actually faster than Brewer). His 10-yard split of 1.58 and 20-yard split of 2.63 are actually quite good, showing his explosiveness in space but lack of true top-end speed. That's why he was an effective underneath WR, but didn't threaten defenses much downfield.

Much has been made of McHugh's athleticism today. What would you say his times are in the same tests?

 

[willycat]

Sure, but if the DB is enough of an athlete then it doesn't make much difference. The corner will just use his superior recovery speed to stay with the WR.

Zeke doesn't get enough credit. He was definitely "quicker than fast," but he ran a legitimate 40 in the mid-4.5s for NFL scouts on Pro Day (which was actually faster than Brewer). His 10-yard split of 1.58 and 20-yard split of 2.63 are actually quite good, showing his explosiveness in space but lack of true top-end speed. That's why he was an effective underneath WR, but didn't threaten defenses much downfield.

GCG, anyone on the current roster match those numbers?

 

[DaCat]

Shuler. He also showed improved shiftiness after catching the ball. I think we should've utilized him more on bubble screens and medium passes. He seemed to struggle to catch the long ball.