Honest question..

[Bullldawg78]

Not trying to defend any coach or system here current or past, but was this season coming regardless of who was coach? Mullen stays or we have coach Joe or anyone else? Result of previous recruiting, tutor issues loss to draft etc....??? Just wondering the packs opinion, which I know can be dangerous***

 

[Requiem For A Dawg]

I highly doubt we lose to KSU or Tenn under Mullen. We are probably 5-2 under Mullen right now.

 

[Dawgzilla]

This would have been one of Mullen's familiar 6-6 seasons, although he might have beaten UT to get to 7-5. Not that it really matters what might have been, the concerns about Moorhead go beyond the wins and losses.

 

[Dawg1976]

Probably. Minimum 4-3.

 

[Requiem For A Dawg]

Yeah, 4-3 at worst. For all his faults and not winning many big games, Mullen rarely lost any games we were favored in. And this year, we were favored in both the KSU and Tenn game.

 

[MSUDC11]

I expected a 2012 type year where we beat a bunch of bad teams, got drilled by the best teams on our schedule, and still finished with 7 or 8 wins. Even with the roster issues we have, the K-State and UT losses should have never happened.

As an aside, I don’t expect it to happen, but Joe’s best chance to right the ship to some degree this year is Saturday in College Station. Find a way to win that game and get to 7-5, and that’s an OK final record given the circumstances.

 

[The Peeper]

Most on this board were predicting 8 or 9 wins this season. You really think Mullen would have only won 6 if Morecrap was getting 8 or 9?

 

[msstate7]

Most on this board were predicting 8 or 9 wins this season. You really think Mullen would have only won 6 if Morecrap was getting 8 or 9?

Yep. O/u was 8. Now that Moorhead is crappy, again, excuses begin, again

 

[msstatelp1]

It's not about the wins and losses, it's about the product put on the field.

 

[WilCoDawg]

Everyone who keeps saying that we’d be better under Mullen has either Stockholm syndrome or a short memory. That’s the same guy who lost to USA and other lesser teams. He also had us struggling against lesser teams such as Bowling Green and UMass. if he was so great, he’d have beaten the teams he should have at the least.
I’m definitely not advocating for JoMo, but I have the same faith in his long term success eventually equaling Mullen’s if he has time. My reasoning is he’s a better recruiter than Mullen whereas Mullen was obviously a better coach. Neither are great coaches in the game though.

 

[57stratdawg]

I agree. It’s not just W/L. It’s 3+ turnovers and 13 penalties.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Mullen who wanted to be here = 5-2 ... Mullen searching the classifieds for coaching jobs = about like the **** show we have now

 

[Requiem For A Dawg]

He did lose to USA. That is true. Who are the other lesser teams like USA that he lost to?

Like I said in this thread earlier, Mullen rarely lost any games in which we were favored. He won the the games he was supposed, but rarely pulled any upsets.

In 2 years, JoMo has lost 5 games in which we’ve been the favorite. That’s 100% coaching and is unacceptable.

As far as recruiting goes, Jomo isn’t recruiting any better than Dan. He may act like he’s likes it more and is more personable, but the results are about the same. In his first full recruiting cycle, the 2018 class ranked 24th. Which is around where we usually were under Dan.

 

[The Situation]

It's evident our upperclass has a lack of talent, which obviously was shielded by those guys up front last year. Difficult to tell how much to really attribute to Moorhead right now. We will know more next year. A lot of younger players played Saturday, and bam, we saw better effort.

It's hard to tell what Mullen would have done, because Thompson would be the starting QB, and neither Stevens nor Shrader would be here. Mullen would also have a ****** attitude similar to 2016, due to him missing another opportunity to leave. I do think the OL would be better developed under Big Hevy.

 

[ronpolk]

I agree. It’s not just W/L. It’s 3+ turnovers and 13 penalties.

This is my main issue too. We have no discipline. But with that said, I do believe we would 5-2 under Mullen right now.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Correct. Talent fluctuates at 95% of the P5 schools. BUT talent is relative to whom you're playing. Losing to teams with less or equal talent is coaching. No question we have less talent than we've had in some other years but let's face it we've played a relative easy schedule so far and should be 4-3 at a bare minimum.

 

[8dog]

Oh come on. We are 4-3 at a minimum and most importantly we would look like we practice

 

[The Situation]

Correct. Talent fluctuates at 95% of the P5 schools. BUT talent is relative to whom you're playing. Losing to teams with less or equal talent is coaching. No question we have less talent than we've had in some other years but let's face it we've played a relative easy schedule so far.

Yeah it's hard to hide from Kansas State and Tennessee.

 

[The Situation]

He did lose to USA. That is true. Who are the other lesser teams like USA that he lost to?

Like I said in this thread earlier, Mullen rarely lost any games in which we were favored. He won the the games he was supposed, but rarely pulled any upsets.

In 2 years, JoMo has lost 5 games in which we’ve been the favorite. That’s 100% coaching and is unacceptable.

As far as recruiting goes, Jomo isn’t recruiting any better than Dan. He may act like he’s likes it more and is more personable, but the results are about the same. In his first full recruiting cycle, the 2018 class ranked 24th. Which is around where we usually were under Dan.

Moorhead hasn't lost to the G5, so all this favored crap is just that. It's really hard to say right now that we even have better talent than K-State or Tennessee, especially in the upper class. And he's absolutely recruiting better than Mullen.

Plenty to criticize, so don't just make up fallacies. I suggest you stick to the penalties and offensive ineptness.

 

[Drebin]

Yep. O/u was 8. Now that Moorhead is crappy, again, excuses begin, again

The over/under had more to do with the schedule and quality of opponents. Arkansas and Tennessee are historically bad, Ole Miss is down, you knew Kentucky would regress, and we should have won all four OOC games. That’s eight games you knew you would be favored in, plus A&M and Auburn, both of whom are truly toss up games every year. 8/9 wins were easily attainable, even considering our losses on defense. It’s another big underachievement, just like last year.

 

[Original48]

For me it’s not about this season. It’s about last season. He lost 5 games with arguably one of the best teams in MSU history. No I didn’t want to fire him after one season. But I expected him to accomplish the bare minimum this season. By not doing that it continues to magnify how awful he was last year. A buddy sent me this...’Last year, In our four sec losses if we had held our opponents to 7 points we would have gone 0-3-1’

 

[missouridawg]

If Mullen was here, we’d have beat UF, LSU, And Iowa last year. And I still think we would’ve beat UK cause Mullen would’ve thrown like 4 passes in that game.

This year, we would’ve beat KSU and TN for sure. We wouldn’t have beat Auburn, nor LSU. We would beat aTm with him also. And we wouldn’t be nearly as concerned with Arky nor OM.

JoMo is so in over his head, it’s laughable at this point.

 

[missouridawg]

Everyone who keeps saying that we’d be better under Mullen has either Stockholm syndrome or a short memory. That’s the same guy who lost to USA and other lesser teams. He also had us struggling against lesser teams such as Bowling Green and UMass. if he was so great, he’d have beaten the teams he should have at the least.
I’m definitely not advocating for JoMo, but I have the same faith in his long term success eventually equaling Mullen’s if he has time. My reasoning is he’s a better recruiter than Mullen whereas Mullen was obviously a better coach. Neither are great coaches in the game though.

It took Mullen all of 7 days to fix the USA game problems. The next week we beat UsCe by double digits.

 

[Hankp22]

Last year

This is why last year matter so significantly for JOMO. Going 8-5 with that football team really reduced his margin of error for this season. People need to see an on field result to feel good about. We're running out of chances too.

If we play with the energy we did yesterday, we have a shot to win 6. But we've only played wirh that energy twice this year.

 

[Requiem For A Dawg]

Moorhead hasn't lost to the G5.

Give him some time. He’s only halfway through year 2.

 

[Dawgzilla]

Most on this board were predicting 8 or 9 wins this season. You really think Mullen would have only won 6 if Morecrap was getting 8 or 9?

You raise 2 distinct issues here. The reason I say Mullen would have been 6-6 is because it was a pattern with him. His sporadic recruiting gave us good seasons followed by 6-6 years. 2010 we were 9-4, next year 6-6. 2012 we started out 7-0, finished 8-5, next year, 6-6. We got two good years with Dak at the helm (2014-15), but when those seniors left we went 5-7. 2019 we lose Fitz, Aeris, and a bunch of defensive players, I think Mullen would have had yet another 6-6 season. Although, I posted on this board last week that with UT being so bad Mullen might have made it to 7-5.

The other issue you raised is a weird one....Since "most" people on this board were predicting 8 or 9 wins this season, you think that was actually the potential of this team? Fan base group think is about the worst way to analyze a football team. These are the same people who were predicting 10 or more wins last year, and then blamed Moorhead when he failed to live up their absurd expectations.

I'm almost always a contrarian, and a realist. Now, I think the people predicting 8 or 9 wins were basing that primarily on how bad UT, Arkansas and Ole Miss were expected to be, but even that is an unreliable way to think. I was predicting 7 wins, but UT was supposed to be one of those. I fully expected us to lose to either UK or K-State.

So, yeah, despite all the predictions on this board, I think Mullen with KT as his QB and God knows who as his DC would have gone 6-6 at State this year.

 

[Dawgzilla]

For me it’s not about this season. It’s about last season. He lost 5 games with arguably one of the best teams in MSU history. No I didn’t want to fire him after one season. But I expected him to accomplish the bare minimum this season. By not doing that it continues to magnify how awful he was last year. A buddy sent me this...’Last year, In our four sec losses if we had held our opponents to 7 points we would have gone 0-3-1’

I don't think you can reasonably argue that. One of the best defenses in MSU history, sure, but not one of the best teams.

 

[Requiem For A Dawg]

Vegas had the O/U at 8.5 wins, so I don’t think you can blame the 8 or 9 win predictions on fanbase group think.

 

[SecretCroomMustacheLover2]

Mullen would’ve at least 5-2 right now. Prolly would’ve lost yesterday and against AU. However, I do think a lot of focus on this board goes on how the offense sputters under the Offensive Sage Jo Mo. No doubt, it absolutely does. I think a just as weak of a link in the chain is Schit Shoop. Y’all I have watched a defense this season be out of place for 6 games. LB’s not making correct checks, and even with the checks they are running, they aren’t making them until the snap of the ball(kinda like our God Forsaken Offensive Audible System. A true match made in heaven). I was on deployment when I got news that we were hiring Moorhead and Shoop. My Tennessee friend on the boat couldn’t stop laughing about how much of a good time we would have with him, and at the time, I didn’t understand why. Now I do. Our d doesn’t halfway know what to key in for with other offenses because they don’t have a solid game plan. I don’t think I’ve seen more than like 10 different blitz packages. I’m not even sure he changes them up game by game depending on the team still. We don’t swarm. It drives me up the 17ing wall. I hate this defense. I hate seeing a Peter Sirmon d again more than a sputtering offense. The reason I believe we would be 5-2 here more likely is because Todd Grantham would most likely still be here and our d wouldn’t play so crappy. Just wake me up when it’s over.

 

[Dawgzilla]

Still doesn't mean the number was based on any rational analysis. A Vegas O/U does not mean that anyone is Vegas thinks MSU will win 8 or 9 games. It means they believe an equal amount of money will be wagered on 9+ wins as 8- wins. It is ultimately the very definition of group think, and it can be used to prove that a team is "supposed" to win any number of games.

 

[missouridawg]

This is why last year matter so significantly for JOMO. Going 8-5 with that football team really reduced his margin of error for this season. People need to see an on field result to feel good about. We're running out of chances too.

If we play with the energy we did yesterday, we have a shot to win 6. But we've only played wirh that energy twice this year.

This. Had that team last year gone 10-2 last year, the leash he’d have this year to hang himself would’ve been much much much longer.

But the **** that we sucked at last year, continue to be the **** we suck at this year. And none of it has to do with talent or lack thereof.

 

[WilCoDawg]

Like I said, Mullen came close to losing to several G5 schools. Very close. I’m not going to go back and analyze every game where we were the favorites and lost, but it happened. I’ll let you do the brutal rehashing. Several Egg Bowls come to mind as well as a few SEC games like 2011 against i ranked Auburn. Despite your revisionist history, he wasn’t the MSU Messiah everyone is making him out to be. A great prophet of what’s to come? Yes. We can do better.
We deserve a coach that wins the winnable games consistently. And one that wants to be here.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

We beat KSU probably. UT is a maybe, Mullen wasn't always dependable on road games.

 

[bruiser.sixpack]

So your opinion is more valuable than the other fans on this board? Go back to last year and look at the two most glaring losses that should have been wins. This of us expecting 10 wins last year we’re not realistic based on how it should have gone. But things happened in the UK and Florida game last year that are only explainable by who was game planning for us.

Now, look at this year and what the “experts” expected from this team.

Favored over LaLaf, USM, UK and won all 3
Favored over KSU and UT and lost both.

Modest underdogs at Auburn and got crushed with absolutely no discipline on display.

More heavy underdog to LSU, probably should have been an even greater underdog but given benefit of doubt because we were at home and were the sandwich between two big games for LSU. A little better effort, but still 13 penalties equals no improvement in discipline.

So, based on expert analysis, we should be 5-2, with games against A&M (underdog), Arkansas(should be favored), Bama(underdog), Abilene Christian(favored), Ole Miss(should be favored).

Adds up to about 8 wins to me.

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

We would have won more games if Mullen had stayed. 10 I'm sure....maybe even 11. It was not a great team. Great defense tho. Didn't need the offense to do much. 17 points a game was plenty. Also we would not have swapped out every damn coach we had. We would have had consistency in the program. And 2018 recruiting was Mullens class of recruits obviously. Joe had to try to hold onto that class, build a coaching staff and get to know his new team. 19 was Joe's class if you wanna rate his crootin and you can look at 2020 but they ain't signed and this will probly not help that

 

[Dawgzilla]

I didn't say my opinion was more valuable, but it was certainly more accurate.

I do not care about Vegas odds at all; the opinion of gamblers is no way to measure the potential of a team. And you have to realize odds are just statistics. Being favored by Vegas in a game does not mean you "should" win it.

This is not a defense of Moorhead...I was asked why I thought Mullen would only go 6-6 with this team when a bunch of other people thought this team would win 8 games under Moorhead. I'm just saying anyone who thought this team would win 8 wasn't really paying attention.

We do not have the horses to match up with most SEC teams right now. Our defense was destined to be bad based on everything we lost from last year...not just the NFL guys, we lost 7 or 8 D linemen and that is just hard to replace. Toss in the loss of Autrey and Gay, and our D is in serious trouble. I hoped our offense would be a little better this year, but I just didn't think we would be able to score enough to keep up with some teams.

I get that everyone was counting on Arkansas, Ole Miss, and UT to be really bad this year, and after the way we handled KState last year a 4-0 non-conference slate seemed likely, but I wasn't buying. You cannot just count on all 3 of those teams to be historically bad for an entire season. This is the SEC; is anyone really surprised that Vandy upset Mizzou yesterday?