Hey Mog...
- Thread starter WVUCOOPER
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Honest question to anyone considering a Tesla; how interested would you be in a Tesla if Musk wasn't part of the Company ??
I ask because it's always seemed to me (anecdotally, that is) that most Tesla purchasers climb aboard because they're investors in Musk's vision......and that's A-OK with me, because the reasons why anyone spends their hard earned money are obviously none of my business. But, there's something wrong these days in Palo Alto, and whether eventually Musk sells the company......or kills himself (which would really worry me, in particular, if I were a shareholder)......seems at least as likely as him taking the Company private.
Which, from what I can tell from the peanut gallery, will be significantly more difficult to achieve than to talk about.
I ask because it's always seemed to me (anecdotally, that is) that most Tesla purchasers climb aboard because they're investors in Musk's vision......and that's A-OK with me, because the reasons why anyone spends their hard earned money are obviously none of my business. But, there's something wrong these days in Palo Alto, and whether eventually Musk sells the company......or kills himself (which would really worry me, in particular, if I were a shareholder)......seems at least as likely as him taking the Company private.
Which, from what I can tell from the peanut gallery, will be significantly more difficult to achieve than to talk about.
The only reason I'd buy a Tesla is 1) Price, 2) Performance. There are two Tesla's in my development of 8 houses, and I've been meaning to stop my neighbors and ask them about the Tesla, and our family has owned a Prius in the past, so I'm not adverse to owning an electric vehicle. However the price would have to justify the switch, and it would have to ride and perform like other cars I've driven.
Musk likes to make bold claims, and works to back them up to an extent. So if his vision and money help improve the manufacturing process for Lithium batteries (a la his House Powerwall), or improves the efficiency of Solar Panels (a la his Solar Roof) then all the better, but I would never buy a car based on his vision. Sounds like though the man could use a good long vacation on some remote beach.
Yeah, I think I'm naturally drawn to thinks that are "techy" or a little bit different, so I'd still be interested. My old car was the Mazda RX8 with the rotary engine, as an example of that.
I can't imagine Musk offing himself, but I certainly wouldn't be shocked if he had a mental breakdown or ended up in the hospital after physically collapsing. For better or worse, he seems to think that he's the only one capable of solving Tesla's operating issues. For his own sanity (and the benefit of the company), he needs to find a version of SpaceX's Gwynne Shotwell to be a COO.
Musk involved or not involved makes no difference to me. I love the idea of commuting to and from work everyday and not paying a penny in gasoline. I'm hoping his personality and cult following don't derail the future. If they do? Someone else will step in and fill the void. The future is coming swiftly thanks to Tesla, Musk and others.
I agree, Mog; it's Musk's (apparent) inability to redirect responsibility for the regular aspects of a traditional manufacturing operation.....especially one as complicated as automobiles......to be the primary reason why he's experiencing so much agita.
I don't think he's had any trouble candidly acknowledging how difficult it's been to build cars, but he just doesn't seem to have any interest in getting people engaged at a high level who could actually help him. I assume it's because he just doesn't want "old think" manufacturing guys in an environment where "new think" is a (or the) guiding principle. But sometimes, there's reason "old think" has become, well, old think; and that's because it works.
No matter what one thinks of Musk from a personal (or political) standpoint, the industry as a whole (IMO) is far better served with him being part of it . I have no problem acknowledging he's got some Henry Ford-style traits in his automotive DNA, and can't see how that's not good for the industry as a whole. But there's no question he's being reviewed/assessed under a different kind of light by the auto establishment; perhaps not surprising, given the manner in which he's largely thumbed his nose at the establishment.
Meanwhile, as E-vehicles are finally begin to flow from the conventional industry, I've recently read some independent assessment as to some of the engineering qualities Musk is said to have baked into his cars. The term "military grade" seems to be used fairly commonly as a decription for many of his core systems. Now, that's a fairly broad term with a variety of possible meanings. OTOH, whether that level of quality is necessary in over-the-road cars.....or repeatable over time in a cost effective manner......remains to be seen.
Either way, the jury currently remains out on his supply base, and obviously his manufacturing/assembly operation. I also read that assembly of Model 3's has been moved "outside". They've supposedly erected what amounts to (my term) quonset hut-style enclosures......which some are calling "tents"......to enclose assembly lines which might be used permanently.
https://electrek.co/2018/06/19/tesla-model-3-assembly-line-inside-tent-elon-musk/
One last thing, have you heard of this new Tesla competitor trying now to come online ?? Appears to be taking more the Tesla approach than did Henrik FIskar, who crashed and burned spectacularly trying to bring his Karma to market a few years ago (and which has been reincarnated as the Karma Rivero).
https://lucidmotors.com/company
At this point, Lucid seems to be more concept than actual company right now (though, for the obligatory $2500, it appears as though they'll be delighted to sell you a place in line for an Air).
Yeah- one of the mistakes he made (and to his credit, admitted it was his fault) was attempting to over-automate the Model 3 assembly line. Basically there are some things that robots do really well, and there are some things they have a very difficult time with, but he had them try to do almost everything regardless. That's a mistake that GM apparently made 25+ years ago and learned from. It took several months for Musk/Tesla to correct some of those issues and basically just put humans on the assembly line where it made sense.
Yeah, I've heard of them and another one called Faraday Future. They seem like they're kind of in the same boat to me- they both have high-end EVs designed, now they just have to find the money and figure out a way to actually build them. Tesla was certainly in the right place / right time in being able to buy the old NUMMI factory on the cheap, but Lucid/Faraday won't be so lucky. I saw where Lucid was in talks with the same Saudi fund that was working with Tesla, and I think both Lucid/Faraday have received funding from Chinese investors in the past.
It'll be interesting to see if either can pull it off. The more competition the merrier, as far as I'm concerned.
On a side note, it's kind of interesting that the Model 3 will be my 3rd car made at the Fremont factory. My first car in high school was a 1986 Chevy Nova, and then I had a 1993 Geo Prizm get me through college.
I've heard of that Faraday model, but don't claim to know anymore about it than the Lucid (probably less, since it was the Lucid to which I linked).
Amazing how much, from a basic styling language standpoint, the two concepts resemble one another....or, maybe it isn't. Not sure who can possibly create the financing for either of these startups other than the Chinese. I myself can't see the Saudis going into serious business with either firm, considering both exist to, well, put them out of business.
Meanwhile, beyond those folks with sufficient financial means to roll the dice on totally unproven companies.....and even in California, that's got to be a group fairly limited in numbers.....I'm not sure there are too many (even those with VP titles in front of their names) willing to pull the trigger on either concern at this point. I don't want to say they can't eventually succeed, though.
And no question, that NUMMI plant in Fremont was the origination for a lot of cars originating from GM and Toyota for a roughly 10 year period. But I seriously doubt there are too many folks who can knowingly claim ownership of three different vehicles.....including Tesla......assembled that plant.