Hardest place to win in the SEC?

[o_dawgnabit]

HD6, did I hear it right on SuperTalk this afternoon that Cross said that our program is equivalent to Rutgers and that Mississippi State is the hardest place to win in the Sec? I just had it on in the background at work but if he really believes that then he needs to pull his head out of the sand. There are other programs in the sec that aren’t as committed to football and are worse of than us IMO. I then heard him say that we are only on a 9 year bowl streak because of our scheduling. Some of that might be true but to say we have just scheduled our ways to our bowls makes a lot of AD’s at programs like Florida, UT, and even his own school look really dumb for their scheduling.

 

[BossDawg78]

As opposed to OM, Cross? A program that can't even clinch the division?

 

[57stratdawg]

I don’t see much of a difference in “how hard it is to win” at Vandy, MSU, OM or Missouri.

 

[Antonio Brown's Foot]

HD6, did I hear it right on SuperTalk this afternoon that Cross said that our program is equivalent to Rutgers and that Mississippi State is the hardest place to win in the Sec? I just had it on in the background at work but if he really believes that then he needs to pull his head out of the sand. There are other programs in the sec that aren’t as committed to football and are worse of than us IMO. I then heard him say that we are only on a 9 year bowl streak because of our scheduling. Some of that might be true but to say we have just scheduled our ways to our bowls makes a lot of AD’s at programs like Florida, UT, and even his own school look really dumb for their scheduling.

In the SEC? Yes.

 

[BossDawg78]

I'd throw Kentucky in there too.

 

[o_dawgnabit]

In the SEC? Yes.

So you think it’s harder to win here than Vandy or UK?

 

[Negative Waves]

Cross is an Ole Miss Kool-Aid drinker. Of course he's going to say that...

State was a couple of bad plays away from winning the west in 14 and a biased ref crew in 99 from also winning the west. Ole Miss has also had exactly the same amount of shots, 03 and 15. Vandy never has been in play and neither has Kentucky. Heck, A&M hasn't made a serious run towards the west since they joined. State is in the same boat as the rest of the SEC minus the big 5 (LSU, Bama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia) and Vandy on the other end.

 

[WrapItDog]

I don’t see much of a difference in “how hard it is to win” at Vandy, MSU, OM or Missouri.

Mizzu has been to the SEC Championship game twice in their 8 years in the SEC Conference

 

[johnson86-1]

Mizzu has been to the SEC Championship game twice in their 8 years in the SEC Conference

They beat like one SEC team with a winning record in that time frame. I'd say that puts them on the same level as MSU. If we get an extremely favorable schedule at the same time we are up, we can make it to the SEC Championship game. We did it in 98 and just missed 99 and haven't had many chances since b/c of Croom and then Saban. Mizzou has basically zero chance when UGA and Florida aren't crap at the same time, which won't happen very often. They probably have it slighly easier b/c they do have a bigger population to choose from with less competition, but they have had some awful teams recently too. WIll need to see how being in the SEC treats them over the long haul when the imbalance b/w east and west isn't so great.

Basically it's Vandy, then a decent gap, then UK, then a small gap, and then some order of Arkansas, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Mizzou (and I would argue that is the order, but that requires believing that A&m and Mizzou joining the SEC permanently damaged Ark's chances; if you don't believe that, then they probably should be the easiest place to win of those four; then UM is slightly harder than MSU b/c their history with racial issues requires them to cheat more but otherwise they'd be the same, then mizzou has a population advantage).

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

I would say if you go thru the history of the SEC we would rank right down there with Vandy and Ky as a lower tier SEC program. We have been over performing the last nine years basically rising up to middle of the pack but historically we are bottom tier. UT and Arky had there glory days. Even Mizzou for a few of their years. And we know about the others that are usually dominant. I'm always amazed the way some folks talk like this is a 9 or 10 win program annually. It ain't

 

[WrapItDog]

Basically it's Vandy, then a decent gap, then UK, then a small gap, and then some order of Arkansas, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Mizzou (and I would argue that is the order, but that requires believing that A&m and Mizzou joining the SEC permanently damaged Ark's chances; if you don't believe that, then they probably should be the easiest place to win of those four; then UM is slightly harder than MSU b/c their history with racial issues requires them to cheat more but otherwise they'd be the same, then mizzou has a population advantage).

South Carolina has to be in there somewhere

 

[bruiser.sixpack]

I think y’all are missing the target here.

Guys like Cross think Oxford is comparable to Tuscaloosa, Auburn, College Station, Athens, Gainesville, et. al. He thinks Starkville is like Holly Ridge, Rolling Fork or Hollandale. The perception is you cannot get the premium players to come to Hicksville but the blue print is all that is needed to make Oxford the new SEC Mecca will happen as soon as they can get Vaught II to sign on and they will be unstoppable.

 

[57stratdawg]

Because they play on the side of the conference where they wear skirts during the third quarter.

 

[shotgunDawg]

- SEC history is extremely flawed data due unbalanced scheduling. It means something but not as much as you think.

- New money has drastically changed our potential

- levels of the ease of winning in TODAY's SEC


1. Bama

2. Georgia, LSU

3. Florida, Auburn

4. Texas A&M,

5. Tennessee

6. South Carolina, MSU, Mizzou, Ole Miss, Arkansas

7. Vandy, KY

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

Pretty accurate in today's time. As he refers to Rutgers, they also have B1G money. Their next coach will get around 4.25 mill per year. And that was a winning program in the Big East with one 12-2 year and several 8 and 9 win seasons, 8-5 first year in the B1G and garbage since then. A good coach could do well there. They have OSU and PSU like Bama and LSU. Comparable

 

[msstate7]

- SEC history is extremely flawed data due unbalanced scheduling. It means something but not as much as you think.

- New money has drastically changed our potential

- levels of the ease of winning in TODAY's SEC


1. Bama

2. Georgia, LSU

3. Florida, Auburn

4. Texas A&M,

5. Tennessee

6. South Carolina, MSU, Mizzou, Ole Miss, Arkansas

7. Vandy, KY

What makes it easier to win at bama than Georgia, LSU, Florida, or auburn? I say it's just saban. You put saban at any of those schools, and he'd be just as dominant

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

I would agree it's the Saban factor. It might take 2 years but he could do it. The best want to be coached by Saban. Recruits feel like he will have them winning rings and put them in the NFL

 

[MedDawg]

I think y’all are missing the target here.

Guys like Cross think Oxford is comparable to Tuscaloosa, Auburn, College Station, Athens, Gainesville, et. al. He thinks Starkville is like Holly Ridge, Rolling Fork or Hollandale. The perception is you cannot get the premium players to come to Hicksville but the blue print is all that is needed to make Oxford the new SEC Mecca will happen as soon as they can get Vaught II to sign on and they will be unstoppable.

It's amazing how Oxford changed from the best college town ever attracting #1 recruits in 2013 from what it was before and also to whatever it is now.

 

[57stratdawg]

It’s not. Florida, LSU, UGA and Bama are all elite programs. Just a matter of rather the right guy is behind the wheel.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

I'd probably put SC at 6 by themselves then put MSU, Mizz, OM and Ark at 7, UK 8, then Vandy by themselves at 9 and largely because their admin literally doesn't care.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

Here's a fact: You routinely hear other SEC coaches put Davis Wade at the top when it comes to the most hostile atmospheres in the SEC. Fact: You literally NEVER, not once - even in a blue moon - hear another coach, journalist, fan or player say the Vaught is a tough place to play. In fact, the only thing you ever hear about Oxfpatch is how nice and hospitable it is.

Oxford is every away fan's dream: You go whip another team's *** and eat some solid food and see some really hot ***.

 

[thekimmer]

Mizzu has been to the SEC Championship game twice in their 8 years in the SEC Conference

And had we played in the east during that time so would we.

 

[bruiser.sixpack]

Here's a fact: You routinely hear other SEC coaches put Davis Wade at the top when it comes to the most hostile atmospheres in the SEC. Fact: You literally NEVER, not once - even in a blue moon - hear another coach, journalist, fan or player say the Vaught is a tough place to play. In fact, the only thing you ever hear about Oxfpatch is how nice and hospitable it is.

Oxford is every away fan's dream: You go whip another team's *** and eat some solid food and see some really hot ***.

Well... maybe your last paragraph was actually what Cross meant.***

 

[thatsbaseball]

Most of the reasons this has been such a hard place win have been self inflicted. We have had a who's who of crappy administrations who have perpetually hired bad head coaches and that's the main reason we are where we are. In the last 60 years when we've made good hires (Tyler, Sherrill and Mullen) we've been competitive , when we've made bad hires (Shira,Croom,Felker and Bellard) we sucked. May be too early to tell Moorhead but he seems to be headed in the wrong direction right now.

 

[shotgunDawg]

What makes it easier to win at bama than Georgia, LSU, Florida, or auburn? I say it's just saban. You put saban at any of those schools, and he'd be just as dominant

I thought about this as well and I just felt that after having 3 coaches win nattys in the past 40 years along with an absurd amount of recruiting titles, Bama must just have a built in recruiting network that's 2nd to none.

From what the eye can see, you're right, but from what's under the table, it seems that Bama has huge advantages.

 

[shotgunDawg]

I'd probably put SC at 6 by themselves then put MSU, Mizz, OM and Ark at 7, UK 8, then Vandy by themselves at 9 and largely because their admin literally doesn't care.

Idk. Having Clemson in your State makes life extra difficult. Especially when your not a national brand.

 

[shotgunDawg]

It’s not. Florida, LSU, UGA and Bama are all elite programs. Just a matter of rather the right guy is behind the wheel.

Disagree. History shows that Bama is clearly the easiest even if we can't exactly explain why.

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

We have been competitive for the middle of the pack. Dan averaged 7.4 wins and never won the west. Jackie was 75-75 during his tenure. He had one real good year but still didn't win anything. Dan had one real good year. Jackie was lucky cause most of his time Bama was struggling. We have been so competitive you can sum it up as 1941great, 1998 good, 1999 almost good and 2014 great for half the year. Bob Tyler was 21 and 44 and best he did was 4th in the SEC...lol

 

[thatsbaseball]

Rupert, What years were you at State ?

 

[hogfan14]

I'd probably put SC at 6 by themselves then put MSU, Mizz, OM and Ark at 7, UK 8, then Vandy by themselves at 9 and largely because their admin literally doesn't care.

South Carolina doesn’t really have that great of a history. They only finished ranked in the top 25 about three times from 1950-1990. Spurrier did have a good run there though.

LSU wasn’t that good either when Saban got there. Just shows you that a great hire or a few terrible hires can drastically change the perception of your program.

 

[BingleCocktail]

Here's a fact: You routinely hear other SEC coaches put Davis Wade at the top when it comes to the most hostile atmospheres in the SEC. Fact: You literally NEVER, not once - even in a blue moon - hear another coach, journalist, fan or player say the Vaught is a tough place to play. In fact, the only thing you ever hear about Oxfpatch is how nice and hospitable it is.

Oxford is every away fan's dream: You go whip another team's *** and eat some solid food and see some really hot ***.

Can I nominate this for "Post of the Year?" This made me actually laugh out loud

 

[BingleCocktail]

South Carolina doesn’t really have that great of a history. They only finished ranked in the top 25 about three times from 1950-1990. Spurrier did have a good run there though.

Both programs are ~.500 for life. What you see is what you get.

 

[messageboardsuperhero]

As long as Vandy is in the SEC, we aren’t in any way, shape or form the hardest place to win in the league. It isn’t even debatable. Suggesting that it is harder to win at MSU than Vanderbilt is asinine, I don’t care how much weaker the East is.

Anyone looking at stats later than 1992 (birth of the modern SEC) is wasting their time- that has no bearing on which job is the hardest in 2019. It is much easier to win at LSU now than it was in 1990, same with us, Missouri, and Texas A&M. It is much harder to win at UT now than it was in 1990.

I’m terms of “hardest job in the SEC,” I would put us in the 8-12 range with Arkansas, Ole Miss, Missouri, and South Carolina. There is very little separation between any of those programs. I would probably give the nod to the two East teams because the west is so much stronger.

 

[Shamoan]

hardest place to win in the sec is vanderbilt. period. academic standards, fan support history....all, the worst case scenario.

tier 2: kentucky, MSU, South Carolina, Ole miss (all have competitive rivals in their own state in major conferences)

tier 3: Arkansas, Missouri (basically have the state to themselves, but in talent poor places)

tier 4: everyone else

 

[The Situation]

Easiest rankings ever:

Top Tier: Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Georgia, Florida (these teams simply need the right coach)
Upper Middle Tier: Tennessee, Texas A&M (these need the perfect coach to be elite)
Lower Middle Tier: South Carolina, Missouri, Mississippi State, Ole Miss, Arkansas (these teams can only hope to contend every 5 years)
Bottom Tier: Kentucky, Vanderbilt (3-4 losses is about the best they can do)

Program potential is a mix of fanbase size (which mixes in money and commitment, which in turn lures better coaches and players) and proximity to talent. You also have to look at history. South Carolina could potential move up to the Upper Middle Tier if they'd get their act together. They've notoriously underachieved, given their large fanbase, and state demographics that are similar to Alabama. Texas A&M is another that should be elite on paper, but history prevents them from being considered in that group (it must be that overall weird vibe they have going on there).

 

[Maroonthirteen]

So we now know the Rebs sells pitch this recruiting season.

“State is such a hard place to win.... their Coach is leaving for Rutgers “

thier mouthpiece has put it out there.

 

[MSUcoast]

Croom[/B],Felker and Bellard) we sucked.

you are severely mistaken if you think we had a choice in hiring Croom.

 

[maroonmania]

HD6, did I hear it right on SuperTalk this afternoon that Cross said that our program is equivalent to Rutgers and that Mississippi State is the hardest place to win in the Sec? I just had it on in the background at work but if he really believes that then he needs to pull his head out of the sand. There are other programs in the sec that aren’t as committed to football and are worse of than us IMO. I then heard him say that we are only on a 9 year bowl streak because of our scheduling. Some of that might be true but to say we have just scheduled our ways to our bowls makes a lot of AD’s at programs like Florida, UT, and even his own school look really dumb for their scheduling.

Look, anyone with half a brain knows that Rutgers is a significant step down from Mississippi State. IF JoMo took the job at Rutgers it will clearly be because he doesn't think he can get it done here and knows the fanbase is ready for a change and no longer supports him. I think Moorhead is the personality type that really wants to be liked and given our team's performance over the past year and a half, there is a large segment of the fanbase that no longer like JoMo as a coach although I think most all of us think highly of him as a person. We underperformed expectations last year and it looks like it will be the same this year.

 

[johnson86-1]

South Carolina has to be in there somewhere

I'm not sure about South Carolina. They sold out their stadium through some really ****** years. They have decent population to recruit from. I think they're being hurt right now by Clemson being so good, but I think they could have been Clemson if they had had somebody like Dabo when the east was ****. I'd put them with UT or maybe a little ahead of UT. You might could put Mizzou/UT/USCe in the same tier as slightly easier places to win the MSU. I don't think they're significantly different than MSU though. Whoever has the best coach is going to have the best program at the time. If the coaching and schedules are roughly equal, then you'd probably see those three east teams be slightly better.

 

[thatsbaseball]

I honestly don't know whether we had a choice or not but I damn sure know he was a bad hire. LOL